re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;525423]
[B]Alot of you have made good arguments for Campbell, and I understand in your opinions, he is the undisputed savior of our franchise[/B]. I felt that way about Ramsey. I used to feel that way about Campbell. Maybe i just havent done a good job of expressing my argument convincingly, but i just dont have much hope for Campbell in a skins uniform.[/quote]

classic example of over-exagerrating what people were saying. how does "hes good", "hes solid" or "potential to be a borderline pro-bowler" = undisputed savior?

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;525434]Zorn didn't feel he was too tall. He needed to be quicker and have better balance on his drops which means deeper bend in the knees. That helps keep your feet balanced and allows a quicker set and release.[/quote]

interesting comment. Ive never considered that so i'll take your word for it.

[quote=]Not to argue your point, you're correct here. But I don't put to much stock in what JLC has to say other than direct quotes he gets from Redskin Park or the players. This is the same guy whose in-depth knowledge of football had him writing a column after the draft about 4WR, 2TE sets.[/quote]

I dont puch much stock in what JLC says either, but moreso his quotes. I just wanted to clarify someone elses comment about JLC thinking he would be our franchise QB.

[quote=]you should've posted these two paragraphs also:
Zorn discounted the notion Campbell might not be a perfect fit for this offense but was honest about the length of time necessary to grasp it fully. He spoke again yesterday about how "wild" Pro Bowl passer [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Matt+Hasselbeck?tid=informline"][COLOR=#0c4790]Matt Hasselbeck[/COLOR][/URL] was in his first season in [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Seattle+Seahawks?tid=informline"][COLOR=#0c4790]Seattle[/COLOR][/URL] with Zorn as quarterbacks coach, even after Hasselbeck's four years as a backup in the same system in [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Green+Bay+Packers?tid=informline"][COLOR=#0c4790]Green Bay[/COLOR][/URL], but said Campbell has enough talent to overcome any hiccups.
"I think he's got enough athleticism, I really do, to speed up his game in certain situations," Zorn said. "And part of that, I'm hoping, is just the idea of understanding the offense better, the speed of it. He's not there yet, but I'm not totally discouraged. We have to make big plays when the opportunity is there."

pretty good endorsement from Zorn, and this was after a discouraging loss...[/quote]

Actually, i deliberately didnt put those paragraphs there because i viewed them as nothing but spin. Campbell has understandably had a problem with confidence. A HC is NEVER EVER going to say things publically that would hurt his QBs confidence. Add to that the fact that the only reason Zorn got this job was Snyder and Cerrato wanted someone to develop Campbell... if Zorn said Campbell wouldnt ever be a great WCO QB, then he would be giving his boss no reason to keep him around.

I dont beleive anything Zorn says about Campbell. Cerratos opinion is more important to me (i cant beleive i just said that) and when he was given the opportunity to give Campbell some sort of endorsement after the season, he didnt.

[quote=]The problem at the end of the season was the OL breakdown.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't believe he's the savior. I believe he is a solid, competent NFL starter who hasn't reached his potential. He has the potential to be a borderline Pro Bowler, if he develops in the WCO. He will never be a Manning, Brady (future HoFer) type[/quote]

And this is where i agree with you 100% (or close to it). I think he is a hard enough worker, that eventually (2 years maybe), he could conceivably be comfortable enough in the WCO to be a serviceable WCO QB. He wont lose games for us, but he wont win any for us either... He's essentially Trent Dilfer. You dont build a team around trent dilfer. If we really want to go with the WCO, we need to find a guy that fits the mold of a WCO QB. we need to move campbell for draft picks and then use those picks on linemen to help our new QB out. Campbell will never reach his potential in this offense. This offense will never reach its potential with Campbell under center. Its just not a good match. We can force it, we can try to make it work and we can do ok... but thats not going to cut it in the NFC East. With Campbell under center in the WCO, this offense will never be anything more than mediocre at best.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

Colt Brennan will be the future of the Redskins!!!

Mark my word. Zorn's hand picked version of Matt Hassleback (or Brady if we are soooo lucky).

We don't need Byron "Long delivery/No Mobility" Leftwich muddying the water.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=Son Of Man;525450]Colt Brennan will be the future of the Redskins!!!

Mark my word. Zorn's hand picked version of Matt Hassleback (or Brady if we are soooo lucky).

We don't need Byron "Long delivery/No Mobility" Leftwich muddying the water.[/quote]

I agree here 100% Colt IMO if we keep him will be the Brady of the Skins. With that said, I Still want to see what JC can do next season.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

Zorn critisized Colt for his fast release saying that his throws were to reckless Even though he connected and thread the needle. Almost saying he was lucky to make the completion. Maybe he's just that fast. IMO if you give Colt the same amount of playing time as Campbell. Colt would be better. I know this is a Leftwich thread but...

I'm not part of the "Colt Cult" just stating my opinion.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;525169]Normally, Campbell would be a free agent in 2010, but if theres no salary cap, he doesnt have enough "tenure" in the NFL to become one. he would only have 5 years of experience instead of the required 6. Campell is still on his rookie contract and because of that, hes one of the lowest-paid starting QBs in the league. we'll have no financial obligation to move him next season (assuming my understanding of the rules surrounding an uncapped year are correct). My biggest fear is that when Campbell fails this year, he'll hurt his image so much that his trade value plummets.

Campbell did a decent job this year, considering hes a horrible fit for our offense. his trade value will likely never be higher. He would be an excellent and cheap alternative for the Titans, Bears, and Vikings. Unless coaches see something in him that makes them SURE he will adjust to the WCO and be our undisputed Franchise QB, the smart thing to do would be to trade him now.

Otherwise, we'll be kicking ourselves in the butt for not moving him like we were with Patrick Ramsey. Miami was offering us a 1st rounder for him and we werent sold on him in our offense. By holding on to him, we confirmed our fears about him and received next to no compensation from Denver when he left. If someone offers us a 2nd rounder (or more) for Campbell, we would be fools not to take it and acquire Leftwhich. If the OP is correct and he wants to play here, he would be a decent stop-gap while we groom Brennan.[/quote]

All year I watched as other teams attacked the defense down the field and we do not. JC had a decent year! Int"s down and fumbles were not a problem! If you want him to succeed let him attack the defense... even with no results then we can make a clear determination of the ability of JC as starting QB!

At least we would know what we have then!

I really thought when the offense got bogged down after the mid year we would go no huddle some and let jason play without thinking... Maybe we are to busy trying to plan a way to win then just going out there and doing what these players have done since they were kids...play football!

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=over the mountain;525441]classic example of over-exagerrating what people were saying. how does "hes good", "hes solid" or "potential to be a borderline pro-bowler" = undisputed savior?[/quote]

perhaps "undisputed future" would have been a better term, but considering the run of mediocre QBs this team has had for 15 years, being a savior here wouldnt entail much more than that.

[quote=2BIG2BSKINNY;525456]All year I watched as other teams attacked the defense down the field and we do not. JC had a decent year! Int"s down and fumbles were not a problem! If you want him to succeed let him attack the defense... even with no results then we can make a clear determination of the ability of JC as starting QB!

At least we would know what we have then!

I really thought when the offense got bogged down after the mid year we would go no huddle some and let jason play without thinking... Maybe we are to busy trying to plan a way to win then just going out there and doing what these players have done since they were kids...play football![/quote]

JC didnt attack defenses because JC doesnt look at his primary target. I only attended one game in person this year (Cardninals), but we had receivers open a number of times in that game and Campbell wasnt even looking at them... he consisently (as indicated in the article i quoted) stares down his check-down guy the entire time instead of looking at his primary target.

JC is also horribly timid in the red-zone. I've heard many people say he is too afraid to make a mistake. Whether thats a fault intrinsic to Campbell, lack of confidence in our receivers, or merely a result of having to learn a new offense nearly every year for the better part of the past decade, the fact remains that it seems true. campbell is unwilling to take chances. While that is one reason why he doesnt throw that many INTs, its also a reason he doesnt throw many touchdowns either.

If Campbell was 2 years younger and had 2 additional years on his contract at a low figure, i wouldnt be wanting to trade him. but the fact is, this is the last year we can realistically trade him and get something in return. Campbell hasnt shown me enough to think he's the future here.

i work in risk management, so i'll put it another way - the risk that campbell fails to become a successful west coast QB in 2009 and we have to look elsewhere for a QB FAR outweighs the risk that if we traded him for a 2nd rounder (or more); he would then go on to his new team and become a perennial pro-bowl QB and we would regret making a rash decision.

By sticking with Campbell, we are really going "all in" this year. If Campbell fails, it means not only is Campbell gone (atleast as a starter) next year, but also that Zorn and the WCO are gone too and we build from scratch again in 2010. New coach; new system; new quarterback. I would argue that sticking with Campbell puts this franchise back far more than moving him now, getting something in return, and keeping the offense in tact. On the flip side, if we were going to "blow this thing up," next year wouldnt be a bad year to do it.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

I think the notion that JC could be a borderline pro bowler is very unrealistic. At best he can be a Trent Dilfer type borderline NFL QB. I have a lot of hard core Skins fans as friends and almost to a man (and a couple of women) the only thing they agree on is that JC isnt the answer.

The part I dont see is why Zorn's fate is somehow tied to JC (a QB he didnt draft and IMO didnt want but was forced to take). He had to try to make it work but deep down he knew it just wouldnt fit. I think it would be a huge mistake to fire Zorn because JC didnt pan out. IMO it would cement the reputation of the Skins turning into the Raiders of the east coast with a nut job owner that has no plan for winning.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=44ever;525452]I agree here 100% Colt IMO if we keep him will be the Brady of the Skins. With that said, I Still want to see what JC can do next season.[/quote]

We should definately give JC another year to see what he can do, I have faith in his ability and work ethic. However, I don't see him being the vocal leader at QB that winning franchises need. The QB is the General of the team and the great QB's (Manning, Brady, Jurgenson, etc.) are vocal and command their teams respect. JC is just tooooo mellow for my taste and don't make the Doug Williams comparison, DW flexed his man muscles behind closed doors (watch America's Game).

I love Colt's gamesmanship and go after it attitude. In a year or two (with some work and improvement) he will earn the starting role and hold it down for good.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=irish;525466]I think the notion that JC could be a borderline pro bowler is very unrealistic. At best he can be a Trent Dilfer type borderline NFL QB. I have a lot of hard core Skins fans as friends and almost to a man (and a couple of women) the only thing they agree on is that JC isnt the answer.

The part I dont see is why Zorn's fate is somehow tied to JC (a QB he didnt draft and IMO didnt want but was forced to take). He had to try to make it work but deep down he knew it just wouldnt fit. I think it would be a huge mistake to fire Zorn because JC didnt pan out. IMO it would cement the reputation of the Skins turning into the Raiders of the east coast with a nut job owner that has no plan for winning.[/quote]

That's why Zorn hand picked Brennan.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=Son Of Man;525469]That's why Zorn hand picked Brennan.[/quote]

I know JZ picked Brennan but he wont see any action with JC here. JC is the big piece of furniture that was left in the house when JZ moved in. He knows it will be painful (in many ways) to move out so he is trying to make it work. I havent seen enough of CB to say if he can play but I have seen enough of JC to know he cant.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

I would much rather cut our ties with JC and start fresh, but Leftwich should not be even a thread on this site.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=irish;525473]I know JZ picked Brennan but he wont see any action with JC here. JC is the big piece of furniture that was left in the house when JZ moved in. He knows it will be painful (in many ways) to move out so he is trying to make it work. I havent seen enough of CB to say if he can play but I have seen enough of JC to know he cant.[/quote]

Wait a year or two. JC is a stop gap. Which sucks cause I bought his jersey before last season.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=irish;525466]I think the notion that JC could be a borderline pro bowler is very unrealistic. At best he can be a Trent Dilfer type borderline NFL QB. I have a lot of hard core Skins fans as friends and almost to a man (and a couple of women) the only thing they agree on is that JC isnt the answer.

The part I dont see is why Zorn's fate is somehow tied to JC (a QB he didnt draft and IMO didnt want but was forced to take). He had to try to make it work but deep down he knew it just wouldnt fit. I think it would be a huge mistake to fire Zorn because JC didnt pan out. IMO it would cement the reputation of the Skins turning into the Raiders of the east coast with a nut job owner that has no plan for winning.[/quote]

Zorn was specifically brought in to develop JC; he only got the HC job because no one else (other than Fassel) wanted it. So the assumption is he would be let go if Campbell failed. If Zorn really beleives he can mold Campbell into the next Matt Hasslebeck, then his fate is tied to Campbells and this is his make or break year as coach. If Campbell succeeds, Zorn will stay. If he doesnt, theyre both gone.

On the other hand, Zorn is in a very tough situation if he doesnt believe in Campbell. At the end of a failed 2009 season, he cant get away with saying "well, i gave it two years, and Campbell didnt work out. now let me use my own guy." Snyder is not that patient. On the flip side, its hard to "give up" on Campbell after just one year in the WCO, considering all the FO invested into drafting Campbell in the first place.

So in the end, Zorn really has only two options if he wants a third year:

1) Work his magic with Campbell and turn him in to a pro-bowl caliber WCO QB by the end of this season; thereby letting the FO know Campbell is the franchise QB and that Zorn succeeded where most said he would fail; OR

2) Convince the FO sometime between now and the beginning of the season that his system works, but Campbell is going to hold it back: Hes a good QB, but isnt adapting in the system. The fans love Brennan and he's the kind of QB Snyder would love - he'd sell jerseys... but hes just not ready yet. So in that scenario, the FO must make the decision on what to do with Campbell.
(a) If they decide to keep him, Zorn can always say "i told you so" at the end of the season if Campbell doesnt work out (in a very nice way, of course). With Brennan primed and ready to go, Zorns got himself his third year.
(b)If they trade Campbell and start someone else in 2009, Zorns still essentially bought himself a 3rd year reguardless of how the team does in 2009, with Brennan as the starter in 2010.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

When, and if, Davis, Kelly, and Thomas come around I wonder what sort of effect that would have on Campbell.

I wonder what it's like for a 6'5" guy to throw to 6'3" guys versus 5'10 guys

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;525527]When, and if, Davis, Kelly, and Thomas come around I wonder what sort of effect that would have on Campbell.

I wonder what it's like for a 6'5" guy to throw to 6'3" guys versus 5'10 guys[/quote]

If these guys come around, which I expect them to, a lot of problems are solved. A lot of Campbells "problems" will be solved too.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=irish;525466]I think the notion that JC could be a borderline pro bowler is very unrealistic. At best he can be a Trent Dilfer type borderline NFL QB. I have a lot of hard core Skins fans as friends and almost to a man (and a couple of women) the only thing they agree on is that JC isnt the answer.[/quote]With a healthy OL he was putting up Pro Bowl level numbers in the first 8 games, first season in the WCO, with a below average WR corps.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;525527]When, and if, Davis, Kelly, and Thomas come around I wonder what sort of effect that would have on Campbell.

I wonder what it's like for a 6'5" guy to throw to 6'3" guys versus 5'10 guys[/quote]
It will be a beautiful thing. JCs completion % and TDs will increase having guys with a bigger "radius" (as I believe Madden so eloquently put it).

I can tell you, it's a QBs best friend to have big WRs (see Kurt Warner).

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't believe he's the savior. I believe he is a solid, competent NFL starter who hasn't reached his potential. He has the potential to be a borderline Pro Bowler, if he develops in the WCO. He will never be a Manning, Brady (future HoFer) type[/QUOTE]

Jason Campbell is not a borderline pro bowler. He never will be. This offense will have to be built from the ground up in every area too finally get our offense moving. He generates absolutley nothing. He's going to be a passable NFL quarterback who relies way too much on the checkdown and is very athletic, he does not have potential either, well just do better and put up more points with a good oline Campbell isn't going to have great strides ever. He's been in the league for three years, showed us the exact same game he showed in college, he can be a decent QB and can win, but he is not a pro bowler and never will be. The whole league has this feeling that he has all the tools but they're taking a wait and see approach to lead a team, unfortunately there isn't much left to know about him. He's one of those guys the league is always basing his performance of expectatiosn and potential rather then just simply what it is, he's a decent QB he can be our starting QB but there's a lot of better ones out there.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;525534]With a healthy OL he was putting up Pro Bowl level numbers in the first 8 games, first season in the WCO, with a below average WR corps.[/quote]

that is fing ridiculous. Moss was leading the leading receiver for the first 8 games based off statistics. He was at the top of the league in yards and touchdowns. . You all need to get off Santana he is not the problem he's our only weapon on this team and probably the only receiver who's caught a pass for more than 40 yards on the skins in the past 3 seasons. Quit trying to blame things on Moss, there isn't one WR in the league who can perform without getting any looks his way.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;525458]perhaps "undisputed future" would have been a better term, but considering the run of mediocre QBs this team has had for 15 years, being a savior here wouldnt entail much more than that.



JC didnt attack defenses because JC doesnt look at his primary target. I only attended one game in person this year (Cardninals), but we had receivers open a number of times in that game and Campbell wasnt even looking at them... he consisently (as indicated in the article i quoted) stares down his check-down guy the entire time instead of looking at his primary target.

JC is also horribly timid in the red-zone. I've heard many people say he is too afraid to make a mistake. Whether thats a fault intrinsic to Campbell, lack of confidence in our receivers, or merely a result of having to learn a new offense nearly every year for the better part of the past decade, the fact remains that it seems true. campbell is unwilling to take chances. While that is one reason why he doesnt throw that many INTs, its also a reason he doesnt throw many touchdowns either.

If Campbell was 2 years younger and had 2 additional years on his contract at a low figure, i wouldnt be wanting to trade him. but the fact is, this is the last year we can realistically trade him and get something in return. Campbell hasnt shown me enough to think he's the future here.

i work in risk management, so i'll put it another way - the risk that campbell fails to become a successful west coast QB in 2009 and we have to look elsewhere for a QB FAR outweighs the risk that if we traded him for a 2nd rounder (or more); he would then go on to his new team and become a perennial pro-bowl QB and we would regret making a rash decision.

By sticking with Campbell, we are really going "all in" this year. If Campbell fails, it means not only is Campbell gone (atleast as a starter) next year, but also that Zorn and the WCO are gone too and we build from scratch again in 2010. New coach; new system; new quarterback. I would argue that sticking with Campbell puts this franchise back far more than moving him now, getting something in return, and keeping the offense in tact. On the flip side, if we were going to "blow this thing up," next year wouldnt be a bad year to do it.[/quote]

I WENT TO THE CINCY GAME AND THERE WAS NOT ONE ROUTE OVER 25 YARDS!!! This is when the Offense was not doing well. Early on in the Cards game we were very physical and were trying to hammer them with our line play. I agree that JC locks in to Santana way too much! But he has enough, if not tons more than any quarterback who led the Skins to any Superbowl... It may be the cast around him...

But I agree that this is the year that counts! Show me something JC!

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

I think if the offensive line had held up, Campbell would have had a great season. Although we need good QB on this team, not a great QB. I mean look at Drew Brees, carried his team through the season, led the league in passing yards, yet in the end they didn't have anything to show for b/c they didn't have a defense, and they had a suspect running game. As we've stated on this site before, we need a balanced team, because I don't think we have an area where the team is at an elite level.

Our defense was good, but not great; the same for our running game (well at least at the beginning of the season, it was very good). Personally, I don't think we can turn this team around by fixing [U]just one thing[/U]. We talk about replacing Jason Campbell, but you forget the offensive line. So what if we trade Campbell, if you can't fix your offensive line, not even Tom Brady could improve this whole team. Our defense was a good defense, but yes we should improve on that pass rush. Our Special Teams play was horrible, so there's another area that we need to fix, make sure we have a good kicker and punter that can help us win the close games (kicker) and win the field position battle.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=Ruhskins;525553]I think if the offensive line had held up, Campbell would have had a great season. Although we need good QB on this team, not a great QB. I mean look at Drew Brees, carried his team through the season, led the league in passing yards, yet in the end they didn't have anything to show for b/c they didn't have a defense, and they had a suspect running game. As we've stated on this site before, we need a balanced team, because I don't think we have an area where the team is at an elite level.

Our defense was good, but not great; the same for our running game (well at least at the beginning of the season, it was very good). Personally, I don't think we can turn this team around by fixing [U]just one thing[/U]. We talk about replacing Jason Campbell, but you forget the offensive line. So what if we trade Campbell, if you can't fix your offensive line, not even Tom Brady could improve this whole team. Our defense was a good defense, but yes we should improve on that pass rush. Our Special Teams play was horrible, so there's another area that we need to fix, make sure we have a good kicker and punter that can help us win the close games (kicker) and win the field position battle.[/quote]

I agree with everything you said. Which is why our approach to free agency doesn't work. A team has to find its own way to make it work. Big ben isn't necessarily a perfect QB but he's a true steeler and they've found out how to make it work with him. Or you could go the Warner route and get one of those QBs who just wins games. We are not looking at that situation. We just need to make it work with Campbell, and that means getting a line that isn't fing ridiculously old and can't last 16 games. Brennan should be given a shot if Campbell doesn't perform he's going to be good. The only position that matters what round you were picked in in this league is WR, CB, T, DE, other then that its a crab shoot. Half the QBs in this league starting were never expected to be a franchise QB.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;525534]With a healthy OL he was putting up Pro Bowl level numbers in the first 8 games, first season in the WCO, with a below average WR corps.[/quote]

He also managed to have the best RB in the league by 300 yards when he was putting up those numbers.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=gaudiomatt;525555]I agree with everything you said. Which is why our approach to free agency doesn't work. A team has to find its own way to make it work. Big ben isn't necessarily a perfect QB but he's a true steeler and they've found out how to make it work with him. Or you could go the Warner route and get one of those QBs who just wins games. We are not looking at that situation. We just need to make it work with Campbell, and that means getting a line that isn't fing ridiculously old and can't last 16 games. Brennan should be given a shot if Campbell doesn't perform he's going to be good. The only position that matters what round you were picked in in this league is WR, CB, T, DE, other then that its a crab shoot. Half the QBs in this league starting were never expected to be a franchise QB.[/quote]

Would you start Brennan if Campbell begins to fail because he has to run for his life due to a crappy offensive line? I agree that if JC fails on his own, we should give Brennan a chance (like when Brunell sucked, JC was given the start). But if our o-line turns JC into a punching bag, then putting Brennan there would like when Spurrier traumatized Ramsey with the lack of protection.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=gaudiomatt;525557]He also managed to have the best RB in the league by 300 yards when he was putting up those numbers.[/quote]

Because the offensive line was working during the first half. So as I said, is all about balance. The offensive line declined, the running game declined, so did the pass protection, and the offense went to sh!t because of it.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

Well this just popped up on CNN-SI, some here may get thier wish if this has any legs:

[B]Redskins, Jason Campbell Could Part Ways After '09 Season[/B]

Posted Feb 6th 2009 1:55 PM by [URL="http://www.fanhouse.com/bloggers/ryan-wilson/"][COLOR=#0000ff]Ryan Wilson[/COLOR][/URL] ([URL="http://www.fanhouse.com/bloggers/ryan-wilson/rss.xml"][COLOR=#0000ff]author feed[/COLOR][/URL])
Filed Under: [URL="http://www.fanhouse.com/category/washington-redskins/"][COLOR=#0000ff]Redskins[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://www.fanhouse.com/category/nfc-east/"][COLOR=#0000ff]NFC East[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://www.fanhouse.com/category/nfl-draft/"][COLOR=#0000ff]NFL Draft[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://www.fanhouse.com/category/nfl-fans/"][COLOR=#0000ff]NFL Fans[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://www.fanhouse.com/category/nfl-free-agency/"][COLOR=#0000ff]NFL Free Agency[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://www.fanhouse.com/category/nfl-rumors/"][COLOR=#0000ff]NFL Rumors[/COLOR][/URL]
[COLOR=#0000ff][IMG]http://www.blogcdn.com/nfl.fanhouse.com/media/2009/02/jason-campbell-was-020609.jpg[/IMG][/COLOR]The offseason got underway Thursday, and the Patriots wasted little time in [URL="http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/02/05/patriots-franchise-matt-cassel/"][COLOR=#0000ff]franchising[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://nfl.fanhouse.com/tag/MattCassel/"][COLOR=#0000ff]Matt Cassel[/COLOR][/URL]. What they plan to do with him remains a mystery, but there are plenty of teams in need of quarterback help.

In fact, if you believe National Football Post's Michael Lombardi, nearly a third of NFL franchises could stand an upgrade at the position. The Lions and Vikings top the list, obviously, but Lombardi also thinks the Redskins could be in the market for a new quarterback, if not this offseason, [URL="http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/02/national-football-post-diner-news-93/"][COLOR=#0000ff]then in a year's time[/COLOR][/URL].[INDENT]The 'Skins are going to live and die with their current quarterback, Jason Campbell, and have put the word out that they will not be players in the free-agent market. However, they will need to consider making this move and should do their homework before they dismiss the notion of a trade. Trust me on this, a year from now the 'Skins will be looking for a quarterback.


[url=http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/02/06/redskins-jason-campbell-could-be-parting-ways-after-09-season/]Redskins, Jason Campbell Could Part Ways After '09 Season - NFL FanHouse[/url]
[/INDENT]

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

if JC wins in 09 he's not going anywhere! Complete speculation here

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

no thanks...

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;525566]Well this just popped up on CNN-SI, some here may get thier wish if this has any legs:

[B]Redskins, Jason Campbell Could Part Ways After '09 Season[/B]

Posted Feb 6th 2009 1:55 PM by [URL="http://www.fanhouse.com/bloggers/ryan-wilson/"][COLOR=#0000ff]Ryan Wilson[/COLOR][/URL] ([URL="http://www.fanhouse.com/bloggers/ryan-wilson/rss.xml"][COLOR=#0000ff]author feed[/COLOR][/URL])
Filed Under: [URL="http://www.fanhouse.com/category/washington-redskins/"][COLOR=#0000ff]Redskins[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://www.fanhouse.com/category/nfc-east/"][COLOR=#0000ff]NFC East[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://www.fanhouse.com/category/nfl-draft/"][COLOR=#0000ff]NFL Draft[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://www.fanhouse.com/category/nfl-fans/"][COLOR=#0000ff]NFL Fans[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://www.fanhouse.com/category/nfl-free-agency/"][COLOR=#0000ff]NFL Free Agency[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://www.fanhouse.com/category/nfl-rumors/"][COLOR=#0000ff]NFL Rumors[/COLOR][/URL]
[COLOR=#0000ff][IMG]http://www.blogcdn.com/nfl.fanhouse.com/media/2009/02/jason-campbell-was-020609.jpg[/IMG][/COLOR]The offseason got underway Thursday, and the Patriots wasted little time in [URL="http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/02/05/patriots-franchise-matt-cassel/"][COLOR=#0000ff]franchising[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://nfl.fanhouse.com/tag/MattCassel/"][COLOR=#0000ff]Matt Cassel[/COLOR][/URL]. What they plan to do with him remains a mystery, but there are plenty of teams in need of quarterback help.

In fact, if you believe National Football Post's Michael Lombardi, nearly a third of NFL franchises could stand an upgrade at the position. The Lions and Vikings top the list, obviously, but Lombardi also thinks the Redskins could be in the market for a new quarterback, if not this offseason, [URL="http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/02/national-football-post-diner-news-93/"][COLOR=#0000ff]then in a year's time[/COLOR][/URL].[INDENT]The 'Skins are going to live and die with their current quarterback, Jason Campbell, and have put the word out that they will not be players in the free-agent market. However, they will need to consider making this move and should do their homework before they dismiss the notion of a trade. Trust me on this, a year from now the 'Skins will be looking for a quarterback.


[url=http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/02/06/redskins-jason-campbell-could-be-parting-ways-after-09-season/]Redskins, Jason Campbell Could Part Ways After '09 Season - NFL FanHouse[/url]
[/INDENT][/quote]

It would be very idiotic of the Redskins to part ways with JC right now, especially to get Cassel. The reason Cassel went 11-5 was because of Darth Hoody, the Pats offensive line, the easy a$$ schedule the Pats had, Randy Moss/Wes Welker, and the very good defense that the Pats have.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

Don't worry about the article. Wilson's source is Michael Lombardi, who had graded Andrew Walter out higher than Jason Campbell when he worked for the Raiders in 2005.

That's pretty much all you need to know about that one.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;525574]Don't worry about the article. Wilson's source is Michael Lombardi, who had graded Andrew Walter out higher than Jason Campbell when he worked for the Raiders in 2005.

That's pretty much all you need to know about that one.[/quote]

Thanks for stopping this one in it's tracks GT.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

Thanx guys! I thought I was going to have to throw my Patrick Ramsey card to halt this............juggernaut.........of deceit, lies........and REALLY BAD judgement

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;525182]Trading Campbell now isnt indicative of full-blown rebuilding in my opinion (even though rebuilding is what we need to do). I dont think Campbell will ever succeed in the WCO (see my sig). Keeping Campbell does nothing more than nullify our ability to receive compensation when he leaves. The Redskins wont be successful in 2009. Its just not going to happen. I would rather get draft picks and have something to help us in 2010 and beyond than hold on to campbell another year.

That said, youre right - its not going to happen. As long as Danny and Vinny are making the decisions, this team will never achieve any real success, as they are both unwilling to look beyond "next season."[/quote]

Nice post. We are going to be in full blown rebuilding mode soon enough. JC is statistically just above Gus in passing yardage(will surpass Gus around midseason or a bit sooner in '09) and simply isn't going to get the job done for us. He showed more promise under Gibbs' offensive scheme than in this one, thus he looks like he isn't improving or actually regressing. The WCO sucks and has been run by so many franchises since the 80's that everyone knows how to defend against it unless the team in question has the right personnel. We don't. Our #1 WR Moss was brought here for Gibbs, with Gibbs' offense in mind, meaning tough running and longer pass routes that required speed. Our other WRs were brought here to compliment Moss and spread the field. JC was brought in for Gibb's offense also. Cannon arm that can throw the long ball is wasted in the WCO. Our age is a huge problem now also with both lines and with Springs. Smoot II, like Gibbs II, isn't like Smoot I. He is good for depth, but his starting days are past.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

When are we going to stick to one guy and build our team around him. I was very dissappointed with the second half of Jason's performance last year. However there were a lot of factors that played into our disappointing finish. Jason is not totally the blame. I think he can be the skins franchise quarterback for us if we surround him with the right talent and SUPPORT him. Oh yeah, maybe give him more than one year in a particular system. Lets not start over again. [COLOR="DarkRed"][B]WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME WE HAD A FRANCHISE QUARTER BACK? OR HAVE WE EVER HAD ONE?[/B][/COLOR] This is just ridiculous...

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=44ever;525575]Thanks for stopping this one in it's tracks GT.[/quote]


The article was pretty much a no brainer. If JC is mediocre next season he won't be resigned if he wants a raise, which will most assuredly happen.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=REDSKIN1;525599]When are we going to stick to one guy and build our team around him. I was very dissappointed with the second half of Jason's performance last year. However there were a lot of factors that played into our disappointing finish. Jason is not totally the blame. I think he can be the skins franchise quarterback for us if we surround him with the right talent and SUPPORT him. Oh yeah, maybe give him more than one year in a particular system. Lets not start over again. [COLOR=darkred][B]WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME WE HAD A FRANCHISE QUARTER BACK? OR HAVE WE EVER HAD ONE?[/B][/COLOR] This is just ridiculous...[/quote]

Last QB to even come close to being our franchise QB was Gus. People here seem to dislike Gus, but he did a decent job with what was around him. JC is surrounded by more talent than Gus ever had.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;525600]The article was pretty much a no brainer. If JC is mediocre next season he won't be resigned if he wants a raise, which will most assuredly happen.[/quote]What if he's good again (but not a pro bowler) and you arbitrarily decide that he's average, and Vinny re-signs him. Then what?

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;525604]What if he's good again (but not a pro bowler) and you arbitrarily decide that he's average, and Vinny re-signs him. Then what?[/quote]


He was average this season, and if he repeats being average next season and doesn't get us in the playoffs he doesn't get resigned. THe big reason is he will want a raise for sure, and why should the guy be resigned for a higher asking price for mediocrity? Keep a guy who will be destined to be a bckup eventually at a higher asking price? Not going to happen. Listen G, I was a Ramsey man, then a JC man. I think Ramsey got a raw deal, but I think Gibbs knew he couldn't get the job done. JC has been given ample time to show us his stuff and well, I don't think it is the "right" stuff to get us to the promised land, unless 7-9 to 9-7 victory range is what you are looking for, which is the same victory range as Gus had.

re: Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;525622]He was average this season, and if he repeats being average next season and doesn't get us in the playoffs he doesn't get resigned. THe big reason is he will want a raise for sure, and why should the guy be resigned for a higher asking price for mediocrity? Keep a guy who will be destined to be a bckup eventually at a higher asking price? Not going to happen. Listen G, I was a Ramsey man, then a JC man. I think Ramsey got a raw deal, but I think Gibbs knew he couldn't get the job done. JC has been given ample time to show us his stuff and well, I don't think it is the "right" stuff to get us to the promised land, unless 7-9 to 9-7 victory range is what you are looking for, which is the same victory range as Gus had.[/quote]

I disagree, I don't think Jason has been given ample time to prove his worth. This will only be his third season as the starter and the first time in a system where someone isn't changing the playbook and trying to change the way he drops back and throws the ball. You have to take in consideration the fact that Jim Zorn came in and not only changed the playbook but also the way he wanted Jason to play the position. I think that this year he will show marked improvement.