Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=freddyg12;527501]The same reason no one wanted TO when he was cut by the iggles a couple years back, yet you could hold his stats up w/the best in the biz too. The cowpokes were the only team that would pay him. Likewise, Hall wasn't claimed off waivers by anyone when the raiders cut him, so NO nfl team thought he was worth the deal he signed w/oakland.

Hall is the TO of db's. I hope the dude has matured & isn't such a self absorbed prick, but I think he played well this year for one reason - he wants a big contract. He could be the best in the biz but he doesn't want to be coached & he alienates his teamates.

C. Mortensen reported that the week before he got cut the raiders were hosting atlanta. He had a cookout for some of his old teamates, but "had a lot of food left over." This guy seems to be almost universally hated everywhere he goes, and its a shame cause he has the physical ability to be great. I would hate to see us sign him & trade Rogers, it could impact chemistry in a very bad way.[/quote]

TO was a 30+ year old locker room cancer everywhere he ever played. What on earth has Hall done in the past two years that even comes close to comparing to anything TO has done. The comparision is so absurd, i cant beleive even you take it seriously.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;527507]TO was a 30+ year old locker room cancer everywhere he ever played. [B]What on earth has Hall done in the past two years that even comes close to comparing to anything TO has done.[/B] The comparision is so absurd, i cant beleive even you take it seriously.[/quote]

He had a BBQ and had a ton of food left. The nerve!

:rofl:

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=Ruhskins;527504]I'm sure the same things were brought when NE traded for Moss. Although it is funny that anytime I mention Moss, people say "well they were winning in NE, so he behaved". Well, when Hall came to the Redskins, we were not winning, and he played extremely well.



This is a damn if you do/damn if you don't situation. If he had sucked...or not contribute much at all to the defense, what would you be saying now? If you were up for a raise in your job, wouldn't you want to do your best?[/quote]

Really great points here Ruhskins

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=freddyg12;527501]The same reason no one wanted TO when he was cut by the iggles a couple years back, yet you could hold his stats up w/the best in the biz too. The cowpokes were the only team that would pay him. Likewise, Hall wasn't claimed off waivers by anyone when the raiders cut him, so NO nfl team thought he was worth the deal he signed w/oakland.

Hall is the TO of db's. I hope the dude has matured & isn't such a self absorbed prick, but I think he played well this year for one reason - he wants a big contract. He could be the best in the biz but [b]he doesn't want to be coached & he alienates his teamates.[/b]

C. Mortensen reported that the week before he got cut the raiders were hosting atlanta. He had a cookout for some of his old teamates, but "had a lot of food left over." This guy seems to be almost universally hated everywhere he goes, and its a shame cause he has the physical ability to be great. [b]I would hate to see us sign him & trade Rogers, it could impact chemistry in a very bad way.[/b][/quote]
Getting rid of Rogers, who was universally regarded as an 'arrogant punk' by the people covering the team every day could impact chemistry in a very bad way?

It's so funny how people let their entire perception of someone be formed by what they hear in the national media. The hilarious thing about D. Hall is before he played for Bobby Petrino and had his on field blowup with him, there were no concerns about his attitude in Atlanta. He was widely considered one of the top CB in the game and expected to be an all pro for years to come. He plays for a coach that even Warrick Dunn (WARRICK DUNN!) had nothing but negative words about, then went to an even worse, more dysfunctional organization than the Falcons were and now he's a terrible, overrated CB who's a major character risk. Really?

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

This whole thing about Springs and lack of heart is pretty stupid.

The guy was hurt and couldn't play, end of story. If he was able to play he would have been out there. He gutted it out plenty of times before yet that seems to escape our memories.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=SmootSmack;527502]Sure, but I'm not the one who said he had "no heart" or even brought such an intangible factor into the discussion.[/quote]
Fair, but as I also said, its my opinion and its just as valid as yours. i feel i have far more evidence to show he has lost his heart for the game than you have to show he hasnt.


[quote=]Nothing? Really? [/quote]
The goodwill he had when he came here has slowly deteriorated over the years as his performance and availability for games has declined. He was a question mark every single week last year. sometimes he played, sometimes he didnt. he (allegedly) secretly went and aired dirt in the media two seasons ago. when you listen to him on the radio, its obvious he is just in it for the money, and doesnt care about staying in Washington.

[quote=]He was hurt last year, but you'd like him to give back the money due to him in exchange for the vet min? [/quote] dont be ridiculous. he was grossly overpaid last year. we all know it. Springs knows it. we're suckers and he's milking us for all we're worth. Its very smart from his perspective as he's getting money no one else would pay him... but from the team perspective, its foolish.

[quote=]I'd always thought he would end his career in Arizona actually (but Dallas is a possibility I suppose). If he does that, I'd miss him as a player on the Redskins but I'd wish him the best as he'd be closer to home and family.[/quote]
He'd love to play on the same team as his bff Terrell Owens. the fact that Springs is so close with Owens is all we really need to know about his character.


[quote=]But you don't seem to want to evaluate his performance on the field.[/quote]
i know he's started only 29 of his last 48 regular season games and been paid handsomely for it. I also know that in 3 of the last 4 years, he only had one interception a year. i know he defended 7 passes in 2008 and made about a million bucks for each of them. I know at this point in the his career, he would make a very good free safety if he could stay healthy, which is a huge question mark.

i know if he really wants to play football, and if he really wants to play football for the redskins, we will be more than willing to give him a new contract that pays him more than anyone else would pay him to play safety... i'm also 90% certain that Springs would reject such an offer. id like nothing for than for him to prove me wrong, but we'll see where Springs is on opening day 2009.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;527451]What do you define as not panning out? How will hall singlehandedly cost us wins for many years in the future? you use the term win and year in the plural sense, which seems to imply Hall somehow has the ability to singlehandely lose more than one game per year for us, for atleast 3 years. Please spell this out for me because i dont see how Hall, even if he ends up playing at a lowly fred smoot level (which is HIGHLY unlikely), would singlehandedly result in us losing multiple games over a course of several years? it seems to be a ridiculous, outlandish statement, and i would really like to know what youre basing it on.[/quote]Why is him playing at Smoot's level highly unlikely? For his entire Atlanta career, he played at about the same level Smoot did.

Stats I have go back to 2005:

2005 Smoot 7.2 YPA, SR 52%
2005 Hall 7.4 YPA, SR 52%

2006 Smoot 6.7 YPA, SR 58%
2006 Hall 8.5 YPA, SR 46%

2007 [B]Smoot 5.3 YPA, SR 43%[/B]
2007 Hall 7.2 YPA, SR 48%

[I]All courtesy Pro Football Prospectus 2006, 2007, and 2008 respectively.[/I]

Hall was like 11 YPA in Oakland this year and like 5ish in Washington. Unquestionably, this was the famed "career (half) year". His early production doesn't suggest we would be wrong to average the results. It suggests that any advantage a young DeAngelo Hall had over a in-his-prime Fred Smoot is based on something besides his ability to cover.

Notice the bold type: I pointed out last year that Smoot's production was totally out of line with that of the rest of his career, and told everyone here that I thought he was a real candidate to decline. I had no idea that Smoot would be as bad as he was. No idea. I did know that he's probably not a starting caliber corner in most years.

Based on Hall's first five years, we'd have to say the same thing. Except that he's only 25, so he's got plenty of time left to improve. If he did improve though, we'd be more likely to see it in slow small incriments (at least statistically), than in one big jump, especially over only seven games.

The seven games here for Hall represent a statistical fluke. If DeSean Jackson catches both deep balls over his shoulder, the Redskins win only one game in Hall's tenure here, people see our defense as some crappy, declining unit, and Hall's numbers here are right in line with his career averages. That's obviously why I don't trust his small sample success.

I think that if you pair Rogers with Hall and treat Hall like a second CB, he'll do some developing here and he'll be able to play our Springs role. Rogers, in my opinion, is key to Hall's development. Hall, in pretty much everyone's opinion, has a very long road to NFL success ahead.

Why should we pay the best case scenario potential?

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

The other factor here is the mantra that there's no place on the field to hide a bad corner. People playing Oakland only had half the field to use, and they found Hall for more completions than anyone else in the NFL.

If you can find him in that situation, you can find him in any situation. Rogers just seems to take a lot of the attention away when defending the opponents' number one receiver because people will throw against him as opposed to Hall.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=Mattyk72;527517]This whole thing about Springs and lack of heart is pretty stupid.

The guy was hurt and couldn't play, end of story. If he was able to play he would have been out there. He gutted it out plenty of times before yet that seems to escape our memories.[/quote]

Remember the Bears game in 2007 when Springs' back was hurting so badly he could barely stand up straight, and he intercepted 2 passes one of which he returned like 50 yards to set up a score that sealed the game?? We had just buried ST, and Campbell was carted off the field with a dislocated knee. We had every reason to curl up and die, and Shawn was huge for us.

We can all agree that Todd Collins was our offensive MVP during that 4 game run to the playoffs. There's no question in my mind Springs was our defensive MVP during that stretch. He was awesome. No one was questioning his heart then.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;527518]Fair, but as I also said, its my opinion and its just as valid as yours. i feel i have far more evidence to show he has lost his heart for the game than you have to show he hasnt.[/quote]

I think Crazy Canuck lacks Warpath heart, judging by how infrequently he posts here. Sounds pretty dumb doesn't it. But hey if you've got the evidence, then more power to you.

[quote]He'd love to play on the same team as his bff Terrell Owens. the fact that Springs is so close with Owens is all we really need to know about his character.[/quote]

Because he's friends with TO he's a bad person?

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;527507]TO was a 30+ year old locker room cancer everywhere he ever played. What on earth has Hall done in the past two years that even comes close to comparing to anything TO has done. The comparision is so absurd, i cant beleive even you take it seriously.[/quote]It's absurd only because Owens was at one point a great player.

No one can seriously argue that Hall has done crap in the NFL. His teams have won what, like, 7 games in the last two years? 15 in the last three? 21 in the last four? That's Raider-esque.

He's struggled in his development while showing flashes of his potential (such has his rookie season, a month or so in 2007, and while he's been here), but that's it.

I don't care how many interceptions he has because that tells me absolutely nothing about how good he is.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I think last year was a strong year to draft a starting caliber CB. For example, maybe they could have passed on Thomas and taken Brandon Flowers but they didn't. Lucky for them, D. Hall has fallen in their laps. I think they'd be foolish to pass on the opportunity to lock him up and line him up with Rogers for the next 5-10 years.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=Paintrain;527514]Getting rid of Rogers, who was universally regarded as an 'arrogant punk' by the people covering the team every day could impact chemistry in a very bad way?

[B]It's so funny how people let their entire perception of someone be formed by what they hear in the national media.[/B] The hilarious thing about D. Hall is before he played for Bobby Petrino and had his on field blowup with him, there were no concerns about his attitude in Atlanta. He was widely considered one of the top CB in the game and expected to be an all pro for years to come. He plays for a coach that even Warrick Dunn (WARRICK DUNN!) had nothing but negative words about, then went to an even worse, more dysfunctional organization than the Falcons were and now he's a terrible, overrated CB who's a major character risk. Really?[/quote]You didn't by any chance here any of this through the national media, did you?

Because THAT would be hilarious.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=SmootSmack;527526]I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I think last year was a strong year to draft a starting caliber CB. For example, maybe they could have passed on Thomas and taken Brandon Flowers but they didn't. Lucky for them, D. Hall has fallen in their laps. I think they'd be foolish to pass on the opportunity to lock him up and line him up with Rogers for the next 5-10 years.[/quote]I don't think there's any doubt they will.

I also think there's no hurry to get anything done. It's not like Hall has serious interest from the rest of the teams in the NFL, all of whom could have had him basically free of charge at mid-season. Waiting seems like it would save us some money.

Why would anyone who has ever ripped Vinny Cerrato be in such a rush to pump 8 figures into Hall's bank account in this economic climate? That's like the most irresponsible thing he could possibly do.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

How did we get from signing Hall to bashing Springs? Whether Hall is worthy or not of signing to a contract should have nothing to do with Springs. If a guy has great talent and has shown that he would improve your team then he should be signed. But to COMPLETELY ignore a guys behavior in the past and sign him to a big long term contract would be foolish. Hall is aware of his past and any reservations about him. If he's not, he must have his head up his ass. If he wants to play here, GREAT! Offer him a contract! But be reasonable, he's the one who created the doubts. He's the one who should deal with it. Be reasonable about a contract. Maybe a shorter deal, say 3 years, would be the best way to go. If he plays great we'll have to pony up in three years, but if he doesn't, we won't be dealing with this forever like it seems like we're doing with some other guys.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=53Fan;527529]How did we get from signing Hall to bashing Springs? Whether Hall is worthy or not of signing to a contract should have nothing to do with Springs. If a guy has great talent and has shown that he would improve your team then he should be signed. But to COMPLETELY ignore a guys behavior in the past and sign him to be a big long term contract would be foolish. Hall is aware of his past and any reservations about him. If he's not, he must have his head up his ass. If he wants to play here, GREAT! Offer him a contract! But be reasonable, he's the one who created the doubts. He's the one who should deal with it. Be reasonable about a contract. Maybe a shorter deal, say 3 years, would be the best way to go. If he plays great we'll have to pony up in three years, but if he doesn't, we won't be dealing with this forever like it seems like we're doing with some other guys.[/quote]Good summary of all relevant points. Nice work.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=GMScud;527522]Remember the Bears game in 2007 when Springs' back was hurting so badly he could barely stand up straight, and he intercepted 2 passes one of which he returned like 50 yards to set up a score that sealed the game?? We had just buried ST, and Campbell was carted off the field with a dislocated knee. We had every reason to curl up and die, and Shawn was huge for us.

We can all agree that Todd Collins was our offensive MVP during that 4 game run to the playoffs. There's no question in my mind Springs was our defensive MVP during that stretch. He was awesome. No one was questioning his heart then.[/quote]

Exactly the game I was thinking of. He was a game time decision and he was pretty doubtful to go, but he ended up having a HUGE game that helped spark that playoff run.

But yeah the dude has no heart... give me a break.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

I had brought up that 2007 game and the subsequent three games but was told that "2007 is irrelevant" so there you have it.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

He only played a short time, and showed he could be a game changer had he played a couple more games he might have led the team in INT's

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=SmootSmack;527526]I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I think last year was a strong year to draft a starting caliber CB. For example, maybe they could have passed on Thomas and taken Brandon Flowers but they didn't. [B]Lucky for them, D. Hall has fallen in their laps[/B]. [B]I think they'd be foolish to pass on the opportunity to lock him up and line him up with Rogers for the next 5-10 years[/B].[/quote]

Now this post makes sence to me. Id like to see Hall and Rogers here next season and beyond also.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

Dre Bly, another local DB, was just released by the Broncos.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=GTripp0012;527527]You didn't by any chance here any of this through the national media, did you?

Because THAT would be hilarious.[/quote]
Not at all actually. People (non media) who had daily interactions and contact with the Falcons organization throughout the time Hall was there. Yes, he can be a prima donna but he is far from the locker room cancer he's portrayed to be.

As for the Rogers stuff, not the same level of sources but his ego is well known to exceed his accomplishments.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=53Fan;527575]Dre Bly, another local DB, was just released by the Broncos.[/quote]

Now that's a guy who expected a payday from Danny!!! I'd take Hall any day of the week and twice on Sunday over Bly...

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

I say sign Bodden and Bly for the price of Hall, keep Rogers and cut Smoot.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;527722]I say sign Bodden and Bly for the price of Hall, keep Rogers and cut Smoot.[/quote]

Bodden and Bly are on the downside of their careers and, even in their prime, werent as good as Hall is right now. Rogers wants out and appears to be a locker room cancer waiting to happen. The cap hit to cut smoot is currently too high.

And to reiterate my dislike of Springs (now) and love for Hall (now)... the NFL is a "what have you done for me lately," "what are you doing for me now," and "what will you do for me tomorrow" league. What a player did 2 years ago is infinitely less important than what a player did last year and what a player will likely do this year. Just as I dont care what Springs did in 2007, I dont care what personel issues Hall had in 2006. Are they factors that should be considered in retaining either of their services - yes... but they are minor factors when compared to what both of these guys did in 2008.

Prior to the 2008 season, Springs said he wanted to retire. During the 2008 season, Springs was constantly missed games with an array of mysterious, minor injuries. nearly every single week, he was a game-time decision. His comment to the media made it seem like he too none of it seriously and he was just enjoying the ride. After the 2008 season, in a radio interview, Springs aired the teams dirty laundry publically, and didnt seem to care if he came back here in 2009 or not.

Prior to the 2008 season, Hall was traded to Oakland and he signed a huge contract. He played poorly in Oakland (which is why few teams pursued him when he was released). The skins took a chance on him and he played extremely well. He was not a locker room problem. After the season, he publically said he wants to be here. He said he looks up to high character guys like London Fletcher and goes to them to them, not only to better his understanding of the game, but also for advice on off the field issues. He says he's learned money isnt everything if youre miserable. He wants to play here. he wants to be a redskin.

people need to let go of the past and look at what guys are doing right now. Hall is someone we NEED on this team in 2009. Right now, he is displaying more signs of character and heart than either of our 2 other top corners.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

^^^ Sooooo correct Sir.^^^^

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;527794][B]Bodden and Bly are on the downside of their careers [/B]and, even in their prime, werent as good as Hall is right now. Rogers wants out and appears to be a locker room cancer waiting to happen. The cap hit to cut smoot is currently too high.

And to reiterate my dislike of Springs (now) and love for Hall (now)... the NFL is a "what have you done for me lately," "what are you doing for me now," and "what will you do for me tomorrow" league. What a player did 2 years ago is infinitely less important than what a player did last year and what a player will likely do this year. Just as I dont care what Springs did in 2007, I dont care what personel issues Hall had in 2006. Are they factors that should be considered in retaining either of their services - yes... but they are minor factors when compared to what both of these guys did in 2008.

Prior to the 2008 season, Springs said he wanted to retire. During the 2008 season, Springs was constantly missed games with an array of mysterious, minor injuries. nearly every single week, he was a game-time decision. His comment to the media made it seem like he too none of it seriously and he was just enjoying the ride. After the 2008 season, in a radio interview, Springs aired the teams dirty laundry publically, and didnt seem to care if he came back here in 2009 or not.

Prior to the 2008 season, Hall was traded to Oakland and he signed a huge contract. He played poorly in Oakland (which is why few teams pursued him when he was released). The skins took a chance on him and he played extremely well. He was not a locker room problem. After the season, he publically said he wants to be here. He said he looks up to high character guys like London Fletcher and goes to them to them, not only to better his understanding of the game, but also for advice on off the field issues. He says he's learned money isnt everything if youre miserable. He wants to play here. he wants to be a redskin.

people need to let go of the past and look at what guys are doing right now. Hall is someone we NEED on this team in 2009. Right now, he is displaying more signs of character and heart than either of our 2 other top corners.[/quote]

I disagree, Bodden is not on the downside of his carreer and I would rather have him then Springs.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;527794]Bodden and Bly are on the downside of their careers and, even in their prime, werent as good as Hall is right now. Rogers wants out and appears to be a locker room cancer waiting to happen. The cap hit to cut smoot is currently too high.

And to reiterate my dislike of Springs (now) and love for Hall (now)... the NFL is a "what have you done for me lately," "what are you doing for me now," and "what will you do for me tomorrow" league. What a player did 2 years ago is infinitely less important than what a player did last year and what a player will likely do this year. Just as I dont care what Springs did in 2007, I dont care what personel issues Hall had in 2006. Are they factors that should be considered in retaining either of their services - yes... but they are minor factors when compared to what both of these guys did in 2008.

Prior to the 2008 season, Springs said he wanted to retire. During the 2008 season, [B]Springs was constantly missed games with an array of mysterious, minor injuries. nearly every single week, he was a game-time decision.[/B] His comment to the media made it seem like he too none of it seriously and he was just enjoying the ride. After the 2008 season, in a radio interview, Springs aired the teams dirty laundry publically, and didnt seem to care if he came back here in 2009 or not.

Prior to the 2008 season, Hall was traded to Oakland and he signed a huge contract. He played poorly in Oakland (which is why few teams pursued him when he was released). The skins took a chance on him and he played extremely well. He was not a locker room problem. After the season, he publically said he wants to be here. He said he looks up to high character guys like London Fletcher and goes to them to them, not only to better his understanding of the game, but also for advice on off the field issues. He says he's learned money isnt everything if youre miserable. He wants to play here. he wants to be a redskin.

people need to let go of the past and look at what guys are doing right now. Hall is someone we NEED on this team in 2009. Right now, he is displaying more signs of character and heart than either of our 2 other top corners.[/quote]

What was mysterious about his injury? It was calf injury that originally occurred when he was kicked by Marcus Washington, and it was nagging injury that he kept aggravating whenever he would try to practice.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=vallin21;527801]I disagree, [B]Bodden is not on the downside of his carreer[/B] and I would rather have him then Springs.[/quote]

[B]When compared to Hall he is[/B]. But I would rather have Bodden than Sprins too. Just not at the expence of Hall.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;527794]Bodden and Bly are on the downside of their careers and, even in their prime, werent as good as Hall is right now. Rogers wants out and appears to be a locker room cancer waiting to happen. The cap hit to cut smoot is currently too high.

And to reiterate my dislike of Springs (now) and love for Hall (now)... the NFL is a "what have you done for me lately," "what are you doing for me now," and "what will you do for me tomorrow" league. What a player did 2 years ago is infinitely less important than what a player did last year and what a player will likely do this year. Just as I dont care what Springs did in 2007, I dont care what personel issues Hall had in 2006. Are they factors that should be considered in retaining either of their services - yes... but they are minor factors when compared to what both of these guys did in 2008.

Prior to the 2008 season, Springs said he wanted to retire. During the 2008 season, Springs was constantly missed games with an array of mysterious, minor injuries. nearly every single week, he was a game-time decision. His comment to the media made it seem like he too none of it seriously and he was just enjoying the ride. After the 2008 season, in a radio interview, Springs aired the teams dirty laundry publically, and didnt seem to care if he came back here in 2009 or not.

Prior to the 2008 season, Hall was traded to Oakland and he signed a huge contract. He played poorly in Oakland (which is why few teams pursued him when he was released). The skins took a chance on him and he played extremely well. He was not a locker room problem. After the season, he publically said he wants to be here. He said he looks up to high character guys like London Fletcher and goes to them to them, not only to better his understanding of the game, but also for advice on off the field issues. He says he's learned money isnt everything if youre miserable. He wants to play here. he wants to be a redskin.

people need to let go of the past and look at what guys are doing right now. Hall is someone we NEED on this team in 2009. Right now, he is displaying more signs of character and heart than either of our 2 other top corners.[/quote]Bodden is only two years older than Hall and unlike Hall, has a track record of success.

With that said, if they were both looking for the same money, I'd take Hall. The problem is that Hall is looking for a deal comparable to the Oakland mistake, and it's amazing that there's not more outrage about this.

If Hall signs here at his market value (3-4 mil per year, no more than 30% of the contract guaranteed), I have no problem at all with it. If he gets closer to 5-6 million per and half of the contract guaranteed, then looking to the future is not a very good defense of the contract.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=Paintrain;527602]Not at all actually. People (non media) who had daily interactions and contact with the Falcons organization throughout the time Hall was there. Yes, he can be a prima donna but he is far from the locker room cancer he's portrayed to be.

As for the Rogers stuff, not the same level of sources but his ego is well known to exceed his accomplishments.[/quote]You know me, I will never consider myself the judge and jury on a guys character..

But why the double standard? If you are okay with Hall's periodic antics, how on the other hand can you critique Rogers' character/arrogance. It doesn't make sense.

It's just a bias to Hall and against Rogers, is all it seems to be.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=GTripp0012;527825]You know me, I will never consider myself the judge and jury on a guys character..

But why the double standard? If you are okay with Hall's periodic antics, how on the other hand can you critique Rogers' character/arrogance. It doesn't make sense.

It's just a bias to Hall and against Rogers, is all it seems to be.[/quote]

It wasn't a double standard, I was directly replying to someone's commentary that letting Rogers go for the sake of keeping Hall would have 'a major negative impact in the locker room'. I could care less if they sing nursery rhymes or hurl soiled toilet paper at each other. I just want the best 22 players on the field.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=GTripp0012;527823]Bodden is only two years older than Hall and unlike Hall, has a track record of success.

With that said, if they were both looking for the same money, I'd take Hall. The problem is that Hall is looking for a deal comparable to the Oakland mistake, and it's amazing that there's not more outrage about this.

If Hall signs here at his market value (3-4 mil per year, no more than 30% of the contract guaranteed), I have no problem at all with it. If he gets closer to 5-6 million per and half of the contract guaranteed, then looking to the future is not a very good defense of the contract.[/quote]

Hall has been successful everywhere he's been except oakland, where he was horribly misused. as someone else pointed out, he's had the third most interceptions of active cornerbacks in the league since 2004. Not sure where Bodden is on the list, but hes not up there. Bodden really just had one GREAT year. Prior to 2007, he was just slighty above average (not that theres anything bad about that). 2008 was a really bad year for him, but then again, he was playing for detroit.

Hall is coming of a stellar end of the 2008 season. He was clearly the best corner on our roster, beating out Rogers for a starting role, despite the fact that Rogers had been in the system for 4 years and Hall had been in it for less than 4 weeks.

I agree we shouldnt overpay for Hall, but 5-6million a year is very reasonable for a starting cornerback, especially one with Halls playmaking ability and upside. its even moreso when you consider who the player salaries have been increasing 10-20% every year, and 5-6 million looks like a bargain. If Hall is willing to sign a 6 year, 48M contract with 15M garaunteed, with cap figures under 6M for the first 3 years, we would be getting one heck of a bargain. he would definitely garner that much, if not more, on the open market.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=GTripp0012;527825]You know me, I will never consider myself the judge and jury on a guys character..

But why the double standard? If you are okay with Hall's periodic antics, how on the other hand can you critique Rogers' character/arrogance. It doesn't make sense.

It's just a bias to Hall and against Rogers, is all it seems to be.[/quote]

I think in this case, its a matter of a guy WANTING to be here vs a guy who WANTS OUT. That, combined with the fact that Hall is significantly more talented and has more upside is more than enough to turn the tide against rogers for many fans. Like you, i want the best guys on the field. I dont think we should give in to Rogers trade demands, but if he becomes a "lockerroom cancer," id rather not have a terrell owens like player who can disrupt the unity of a team. In that scenario, rogers would have to go. Fortunately, were not there yet and if the situation is handled properly by our management, it wont get there. I get the vibe Rogers just need to feel "valued" right now and he'll shut up, especially if we promise to offer him a nice contract extension after the 2009 season.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;527869]Hall has been successful everywhere he's been except oakland, where he was horribly misused. as someone else pointed out, he's had the third most interceptions of active cornerbacks in the league since 2004. Not sure where Bodden is on the list, but hes not up there. Bodden really just had one GREAT year. Prior to 2007, he was just slighty above average (not that theres anything bad about that). 2008 was a really bad year for him, but then again, he was playing for detroit.

Hall is coming of a stellar end of the 2008 season. He was clearly the best corner on our roster, beating out Rogers for a starting role, despite the fact that Rogers had been in the system for 4 years and Hall had been in it for less than 4 weeks.

I agree we shouldnt overpay for Hall, but 5-6million a year is very reasonable for a starting cornerback, especially one with Halls playmaking ability and upside. its even moreso when you consider who the player salaries have been increasing 10-20% every year, and 5-6 million looks like a bargain. If Hall is willing to sign a 6 year, 48M contract with 15M garaunteed, with cap figures under 6M for the first 3 years, we would be getting one heck of a bargain. he would definitely garner that much, if not more, on the open market.[/quote]Well, Hall's [B]best[/B] two years have been his last two, [I]if[/I] you exclude some of the Oakland data, at least. He does seem to have made a small jump after 2006, because before then, he could have been charitably described as below average.

I understand the whole interceptions thing, and he does catch a high % of balls I understand, but he also gets thrown at a ton, which is why that high INT stat is likely to stay. If we turn it into a TD-INT rate against, I'm sure it paints him in a different light.

Bodden's best two years were in 2005 and 2006 (ages 24 and 25, or the same as Halls best years), he actually had somewhat of a down year in 2007 before the trade, I thought, and then was only decent in 2008 compared to the rest of the DBs in Detroit. So he's two years removed from his last pro bowl caliber year.

DeAngelo Hall has never had a pro bowl caliber year. I understand he's made two pro bowls, but you are talking to a guy who thinks the selection process has become a joke, and that's one of my biggest points of evidence.

I am trying to be open minded here. Hall is getting better, and at a rate where the improvement seems real, at least statistically (as long as you average his Oakland play with his Washington play). Perhaps at a young age, there's a chance he might get even better. Or, he could go the way of Bodden now that he's at 25, and start to deteriorate physically. That's the crazy thing about being overrated...is that the money you are getting is generally going to exceed your on-field contributions.

I figured that getting released 7 games into a 70 million dollar deal would be a corrective measure for his value, but apparently, DeAngelo Hall's charm trancends logic.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

I also have a lot of fun with the "he was badly misused in Oakland" point. Seriously? You can play across the field from the best corner in all of football and still be misused? If you can't be a decent corner playing across from the best in the business, where can you succeed?

Washington, I guess. But still, 7 games are 7 games.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;527870]I think in this case, its a matter of a guy WANTING to be here vs a guy who WANTS OUT. That, combined with the fact that Hall is significantly more talented and has more upside is more than enough to turn the tide against rogers for many fans. Like you, i want the best guys on the field. I dont think we should give in to Rogers trade demands, but if he becomes a "lockerroom cancer," id rather not have a terrell owens like player who can disrupt the unity of a team. In that scenario, rogers would have to go. Fortunately, were not there yet and if the situation is handled properly by our management, it wont get there. I get the vibe Rogers just need to feel "valued" right now and he'll shut up, especially if we promise to offer him a nice contract extension after the 2009 season.[/quote]I agree.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;527870]I think in this case, its a matter of a guy WANTING to be here vs a guy who WANTS OUT. That, combined with the fact that Hall is significantly more talented and has more upside is more than enough to turn the tide against rogers for many fans. Like you, i want the best guys on the field. I dont think we should give in to Rogers trade demands, but if he becomes a "lockerroom cancer," id rather not have a terrell owens like player who can disrupt the unity of a team. In that scenario, rogers would have to go. Fortunately, were not there yet and if the situation is handled properly by our management, it wont get there. I get the vibe [B]Rogers just need to feel "valued" right now and he'll shut up[/B], especially if we promise to offer him a nice contract extension after the 2009 season.[/quote]

^^^This is the key to keeping Rogers and keeping Rogers productive.

What we dont need is a guy who does'nt want to be here. Or a starter who feels he's not wanted or valued as a starter. Rogers is without a doubt a starter.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

[quote=44ever;527946]^^^This is the key to keeping Rogers and keeping Rogers productive.

What we dont need is a guy who does'nt want to be here. Or a starter who feels he's not wanted or valued as a starter. Rogers is no doubt a starter.[/quote]The fact that everyone but our defensive coordinator knows this worries me to no end.

Re: For all you D Hall lovers
 

Who or what is the source of the rumor that Rogers wants out of DC? I haven't heard anything before this thread, although it's been in the back of my mind that he might want to go play for Williams.