Re: The Case For...
 

I say we stick 13 and get the best OT we can

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[quote=GMScud;527133]Given our shitty history of mismanaging draft picks, I don't want any player who has been franchised. Giving up 2 1st round picks is too much, even if it fills a need with a very good player. We need to get younger, not ship away picks - even if it is for a stud.

I believe Shane Lechler already has or will be franchised by the Raiders, meaning there's no way in hell he plays anywhere but Oakland next year. No one will give up 2 1st rounders for a punter. Now, if they franchise Asomugha again, then I'm all for pursuing Lechler.

I'm not going to make my case for any one individual, rather for a position. I think we need to draft the best tackle available at 13, or trade down for extra picks and still take the best tackle available with our 1st selection. We've got to have one of the oldest (and most brittle) O-lines in the game. Priority number 1 is build the trenches IMO.[/quote]

I'm not sure on the franchise tag, but the shimmy one Lechler is that he doesn't want to play for Oakland having been punched in the face by one of his DTs. I think we should actively pursue him along with Shane Mathews from The Bengals if he can be had.

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[quote=Trample the Elderly;527161]I'm not sure on the franchise tag, but the shimmy one Lechler is that he doesn't want to play for Oakland having been punched in the face by one of his DTs. I think we should actively pursue him along with Shane Mathews from The Bengals if he can be had.[/quote]

According to SmootSmack, Asomugha is almost certainly getting franchised again by Oakland. I heard a rumor a few weeks ago that it may be Lechler getting the tag, but I guess not. If that's the case, I say make a big push for him.

And, um... Shane Matthews? Did you have a brain fart and mean to say Stacy Andrews? I'm pretty sure we already tried the Shane Matthews experiment. :)

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[quote=GMScud;527162]According to SmootSmack, Asomugha is almost certainly getting franchised again by Oakland. I heard a rumor a few weeks ago that it may be Lechler getting the tag, but I guess not. If that's the case, I say make a big push for him.

And, um... Shane Matthews? Did you have a brain fart and mean to say Stacy Andrews? I'm pretty sure we already tried the Shane Matthews experiment. :)[/quote]

I meant Shayne Graham the kicker.

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[quote=Trample the Elderly;527168]I meant Shayne Graham the kicker.[/quote]

True. He'd be a solid pick up as well. I suggested this in a previous thread, but I wouldn't mind going after both Graham and [URL="http://www.nfl.com/players/stacyandrews/profile?id=AND726755"]Stacy Andrews.[/URL] Andrews is 6-7, 342lbs, 27 years old, and has started 29 games in the past 2 seasons. He's Shaun Andrews brother (how massive is that family? My goodness). He's similar in age and size to Vernon Carey from Miami, although Carey hasn't missed a start in 3 years.

Either one of those guys would make me happy- that is if we don't draft a tackle. I'd really like to add two solid tackles, but because of our contract backloading we can't cut Jansen.

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[quote=SmootSmack;527144]I think the Patriots, Giants, Jets, and one other team I'm forgetting could be the biggest suitors for Dansby. This isn't including the Cardinals themselves of course, who have the advantage right now.

Raiders, barring some last minute change of heart, are going to franchise Nnamdi[/quote]

SS,

Do you think AZ is going to use the tag on Dansby?

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[quote=Trample the Elderly;527005]Wow, only one? This isn't going to be easy. I think that Alex Mack is the most realistic and best choice.

Upside

One: He's the best center available.

Two: We can trade down to get him and get other picks.

Three: He can play other positions.

Four: We will not wonder who's going to be our Center for the next few years.

Five: When was the last time we drafted a Center?

Six: If we pick him up later in the draft we'll not have to pay him as much as a 13th pick.

Seven: If he does become a solid center other teams will want to trade picks for him not vice versa.

Downside

One: He might be a washout. I don't think so, but maybe.

Two: It might take him a year or two to get some playing time.

:headbange[/quote]

Great minds think alike
:food-smil
[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/519263-post23.html[/url]

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[quote=GMScud;527169]True. He'd be a solid pick up as well. I suggested this in a previous thread, but I wouldn't mind after both Graham and [URL="http://www.nfl.com/players/stacyandrews/profile?id=AND726755"]Stacy Andrews.[/URL] Andrews is 6-7, 342lbs, 27 years old, and has started 29 games in the past 2 seasons. He's Shaun Andrews brother (how massive is that family? My goodness). He's similar in age and size to Vernon Carey from Miami, although Carey hasn't missed a start in 3 years.

Either one of those guys would make me happy- that is if we don't draft a tackle. I'd really like to add two solid tackles, but because of our contract backloading we can't cut Jansen.[/quote]

Both those guys are good FAs. Andrews will probably be kept from what I hear but Carey could slide our way. Seeing how RT is a gaping hole I can't see how they can draft an OT, throw him in there right away, and expect him to have success. If they do anything at RT it's going to be in FA. A FA will be able to start right away and not have to work his way up to an NFL caliber starter.
We'll have to wait until the combine to see who's the best OT. I think that Jason Smith has the most upside and Andre Smith gets beat too often. They all might be gone by the time we get on the clock. We could reach for Eben Britton but that's just too good of a pick for a 2nd round guy. They're just going up and down too much right now for me to say that's my guy.
If we don't trade down then I'd say Everrett Brown, Peria Jerry, or BJ Raji if they're still available.

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[quote=Trample the Elderly;527038]It's a tradition I'd wish they'd get away from. If it is an uncapped year in 2010 I can see the logic. If it's not we'll have to eat a big s**t sandwich in cap space. Personally, I'd like to start developing our own Haynesworths, Dansbys, and Jacobs.[/quote]

You can't always develop that guy, you can try, but so does every other one of the 31 teams that doesn't have the guy. Sometimes there's just THE guy.

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I've fallen to the OL bandwagon, I mean it was always my first choice, but it's grown more clearly. If our CB and LB core is there and mostly healthy for the season (hell we've done this well with mcintosh and washington hurt, springs too) then really our defense has done its job. Our defense has been our strength for awhile.

It's time to step up on the other side of the ball.. we have offensive weapons and it's time to give them the opportunity to have some protection.

Who? I don't know.. you could go all out on a Jordan Gross, or you could draft a guy and pay him less and hope he's the next Jordan Gross.. or at least a damn solid guy.

Right now I'm leaning towards draft and definitely don't watch enough college ball to pick.

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[quote=44ever;527072]Very Nice 53! Guys like Mack is what makes the offense flow. Clear lanes for the QB to see and for RB's to explode through. We need to be looking at these type of guys. We also have to keep in mind that one of our WO's might develop in 2009 if this happens we could be looking at a post season.

But it wont happen without pass protection.[/quote]
man that's impressive, kid just doesn't give up at all.. could probably handle some of the big NT's in the 3-4

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Shane Lechler. he's not a sexy addition but given what boldin, haynesworth, dansbry would require money wise i would go with him to provide the biggest improvement for the money.

i remember watching the giants alot the second half of their Sb season and to me the biggest impact player was feagles downing punts inside the 5 constantly.

obviously punter is a need. has been for a long time. plack IMO won us the eagles game this year but he just isnt nearly as good as lech who can dead a ball and boom em.

go skins!!

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for me drafting a solid OL will do = Mr. Mack

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[quote=tryfuhl;527189]man that's impressive, kid just doesn't give up at all.. could probably handle some of the big NT's in the 3-4[/quote]

I agree tryfuhl. Man that would be nice to see!

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[quote=over the mountain;527201]Shane Lechler. he's not a sexy addition but given what boldin, haynesworth, dansbry would require money wise i would go with him to provide the biggest improvement for the money.

i remember watching the giants alot the second half of their Sb season and to me the biggest impact player was feagles downing punts inside the 5 constantly.

obviously punter is a need. has been for a long time. plack IMO won us the eagles game this year but he just isnt nearly as good as lech who can dead a ball and boom em.

go skins!![/quote]

I like it. It would be a much needed addition. Improving field position is always overlooked. Good Call.

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[quote=over the mountain;527201]Shane Lechler. he's not a sexy addition but given what boldin, haynesworth, dansbry would require money wise i would go with him to provide the biggest improvement for the money.

i remember watching the giants alot the second half of their Sb season and to me the biggest impact player was feagles downing punts inside the 5 constantly.

obviously punter is a need. has been for a long time. plack IMO won us the eagles game this year but he just isnt nearly as good as lech who can dead a ball and boom em.

go skins!![/quote]

Youre exacly right OTM. Theres no doubt Plack won us that game in Philly. Field position is half the battle. Thats another reason to get a great punter and return guy.

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[quote=GMScud;527169]True. He'd be a solid pick up as well. I suggested this in a previous thread, but I wouldn't mind going after both Graham and [URL="http://www.nfl.com/players/stacyandrews/profile?id=AND726755"]Stacy Andrews.[/URL] Andrews is 6-7, 342lbs, 27 years old, and has started 29 games in the past 2 seasons. He's Shaun Andrews brother (how massive is that family? My goodness). He's similar in age and size to Vernon Carey from Miami, although Carey hasn't missed a start in 3 years.

Either one of those guys would make me happy- that is if we don't draft a tackle. [B]I'd really like to add two solid tackles, but because of our contract backloading we can't cut Jansen.[/quote][/B]

I had to check and your right. To keep Jansen it's 4 mill to cut him we pay 6 mill. Next year it will be the complete opposite. However cutting Taylor and Springs alone will save us 14 mill. Taylor will cost nothing to cut or let go we just won't take on his 8.4 mill. and Springs 8.4 to keep or 2.4 to cut is worth cutting. He save us 6 mill. Then resign Hall and Rogers. Hope all the other CB we have step up to help out.

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[quote=Trample the Elderly;527183]Both those guys are good FAs. Andrews will probably be kept from what I hear but Carey could slide our way. Seeing how RT is a gaping hole I can't see how they can draft an OT, throw him in there right away, and expect him to have success. If they do anything at RT it's going to be in FA. A FA will be able to start right away and not have to work his way up to an NFL caliber starter.
We'll have to wait until the combine to see who's the best OT. I think that Jason Smith has the most upside and Andre Smith gets beat too often. They all might be gone by the time we get on the clock. We could reach for Eben Britton but that's just too good of a pick for a 2nd round guy. They're just going up and down too much right now for me to say that's my guy.
If we don't trade down then I'd say Everrett Brown, Peria Jerry, or BJ Raji if they're still available.[/quote]

I'd be surprised if the Bengals don't work something out with Andrews, as you say. I think of Gross, Carey, Andrews, and Barnes that Barnes is the most likely to be available to us.

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[quote=Ruhskins;527177]SS,

Do you think AZ is going to use the tag on Dansby?[/quote]

Probably, but actually it might not even get that far. Apparently contract talks are going pretty well and they may even get a deal signed this week.

No guarantee that Asomugha is going to get franchised but it appears that way.

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There is alot of questions I would have in regards to our OL. Since Jansen has lost a step can he be moved to Guard and be effective? solidifying our G position. Can Heyer be taught how to run block better since he's good at pass blocking? Will Reinhart step up or will Buges work with him all off season on his technique so he will be used next year? I have no doubt that if we pick up a FA OL he will start but what happens if we pick up one in the draft? Would the coach's be willing to start a rookie if there are no injuries?

Who we have now: 14 players on OL.

Chris Samuels OT
Randy Thomas OG
Casey Rabach OL
John Jansen OT
Pete Kendall OL
Jason Fabini OL
Stephen Heyer OL
Chad Rinehart OL
Will Montgomery OL
D'Anthony Batiste OL
Devin Clark OL
Isaiah Ross OL
Rueben Riley OL
Justin Geisinger OG

Can any of these new guys step up and help out the team? I count 6 new guys including Rinehart. Perhaps they are simply camp fodder but if we brought them in hoping they would challenge the older guys then I would think maybe they have some skills Buges can work with.

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[B]Albert Haynesworth[/B]...O-line destroyer, will help secondary by collapsing the pocket in the middle , which would allow db's to be more aggressive...

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[quote=SmootSmack;527211]I'd be surprised if the Bengals don't work something out with Andrews, as you say. I think of Gross, Carey, Andrews, and Barnes that Barnes is the most likely to be available to us.[/quote]

I hear Barnes has issues?

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[quote=tryfuhl;527189]man that's impressive, kid just doesn't give up at all.. could probably handle some of the big NT's in the 3-4[/quote]

It's not too late to get on the Mack train! I keep watching that video and picture the opposite team as Dallas.

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[quote=Trample the Elderly;527220]I hear Barnes has issues?[/quote]

He's had some brushes with the law. Lost his DL because of a DUI and then wrecked his car and left while driving on a suspended license. There's a video on youtube of his DUI arrest.

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I totally forgot that Stacy Andrews tore his ACL in December. Glad to hear his rehab is going well, but I'm not for getting a guy coming off a knee reconstruction. I'm sure he'll be fine, but he just dropped a few notches on my list of OTs.

[B][URL="http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/02/15/report-bengals-andrews-ahead-of-schedule/"]REPORT: BENGALS’ ANDREWS AHEAD OF SCHEDULE[/URL][/B]

Posted by Aaron Wilson on February 15, 2009, 9:24 a.m.

Cincinnati Bengals offensive tackle [URL="http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090215/SPT02/902150439/1066"]Stacy Andrews is ahead of schedule[/URL] in his rehabilitation after having his right knee surgically repaired, according to the [I]Cincinnati Enquirer[/I].
Andrews underwent surgery January 7 and could be playing football by June minicamps after initial projections that he wouldn’t be healed up until training camp.
“The rehab is going great and I’m way ahead of schedule,” Andrews told the [I]Enquirer.[/I] “My goal is to be practicing during minicamp. It was frustrating a little bit due to the fact that it was five quarters away from the end of the season.
“As soon as it happened, though, it flashed through my mind that everything happens for a reason. I kept a positive head about it and haven’t been down since.”
Andrews tore his anterior cruciate ligament against the Cleveland Browns in late December.
Of course, there’s also the unresolved matter of Andrews’ contract status. The Bengals have been talking with Andrews’ agent about a long-term deal. Andrews is also a candidate for the franchise tag again after being given that designation last year.
“I see myself no longer as a question mark but as an exclamation point,” Andrews said. “I’ve wiped out those questions and doubts about me over the past couple seasons. I would love to be back here. That’s my priority right now. Hopefully we can get everything dialed in and get something done.”

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[url=http://calbears.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/mack_alex03.html]Player Bio: Alex Mack :: Football[/url]

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For me it's a no brainer, Julius Peppers. The guy is a pass rushing beast, from either end spot. He is strong against the run, can make plays when he has to drop out into a zone, causes turnpvers and is exactly what we don't have-a playmaker on the d-line. It's an absolute position of need-more so than a interior defensive lineman. Even at 29 and with no injury history he's got at least 3-4 years at a pro bowl level left in him.

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I think that our immediate need is on the offensive line. But, unfortunately our Front Office will do something else that will piss us all off. So, with that said, get rid of Vinny, and bring back Bobby Beathard, or someone who actually knows how to build an NFL team.

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Gregg Williams?

Player. I will make the case right here for...I could do a bunch of these...the case for Colts CB Kelvin Hayden.

In reality, he's not leaving Indianapolis, Bill Polian has said he'll use the franchise tag on him if necessary. What Kelvin Hayden is: a fantastic, quickly developing cover corner with Super Bowl experience. He has outplayed their 2006 first round draft pick, Marlin Jackson, and is developing into a shutdown corner. By 2010, I think he will be one of the ten best CBs in the league.

The Colts know what they have there, but the rest of the league has not heard about him yet. I think our cap dollars that we have planned for DeAngelo Hall would be much better spent on Hayden, who looks to be a far superior corner and is only about eight months older.

This is a pie in the sky scenario because we would realistically have to trade for him, and I'd rather sign Hall plus keep the draft picks than go after Hayden, but isn't a Hayden-Rogers CB tandem a fantastic pipe dream that doesn't have to end for at least another two weeks?

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Karlos Dansby if he's not franchised. Watching him in the playoffs and superbowl really sold me one the guy. It would be nice to have a solid playmaking OLB who can get pressure as well. On a side note I saw Charlie Casserly at the Georgetown Safeway yesterday and kind of made me nostalgic. I know he didn't have the greatest track record but beggars can't be choosers.

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Well now that KFFL is reporting that Carey will probably be allowed to test the free agent market my vote goes for Carey. He's 27 years old and in the second or third tier of tackles. On top of that he can play Guard. He's also from the U so he'll fit right in.

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[quote=SFREDSKIN;527239][url=http://calbears.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/mack_alex03.html]Player Bio: Alex Mack :: Football[/url][/quote]

Here's another: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRdCRn8eZU4&feature=related]YouTube - Cal Football: Getting to Know Alex Mack[/ame] Mack talks alot about team and going full speed even in practice. Could'nt post it but -[B]Alex Mack Profile[/B]- shows a couple of his teammates, including Zack Follett, talking about him. Good kid. Someone is going to get a hell of a football player. Hopefully us.

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[quote=Dirtbag359;527257]Well now that KFFL is reporting that Carey will probably be allowed to test the free agent market my vote goes for Carey. He's 27 years old and in the second or third tier of tackles. On top of that he can play Guard. He's also from the U so he'll fit right in.[/quote]

Carey is probably my first choice too. But what do you mean now that KFFL is reporting...? What's changed? He's been a free agent for a while, and he was always going to test the market

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Max Starks LT RT for the steelers who just finished his fifth year and is 27 years old you sign him and that allows you to get another valueable lineman in the draft

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[quote=Nflnick11;527267]Max Starks LT RT for the steelers who just finished his fifth year and is 27 years old you sign him and that allows you to get another valueable lineman in the draft[/quote]
We have a potential hall of fame left tackle. Why?

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[quote=Paintrain;527242]For me it's a no brainer, Julius Peppers. The guy is a pass rushing beast, from either end spot. He is strong against the run, can make plays when he has to drop out into a zone, causes turnpvers and is exactly what we don't have-a playmaker on the d-line. It's an absolute position of need-more so than a interior defensive lineman. Even at 29 and with no injury history he's got at least 3-4 years at a pro bowl level left in him.[/quote]

I worry about Peepers for 2 reasons:

1- He wants to play in a 3-4 defense and is 29 YO.
2- Any player that plays on a winning team and demands a trade if he's tagged as a franchise player, sounds like he cares more about the money than winning.

I say stay away from him.

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[quote=SFREDSKIN;527281]I worry about Peepers for 2 reasons:

1- He wants to play in a 3-4 defense and is 29 YO.
2- Any player that plays on a winning team and demands a trade if he's tagged as a franchise player, sounds like he cares more about the money than winning.

I say stay away from him.[/quote]

100% Correct SFREDSKIN on both points

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[quote=SmootSmack;527259]Carey is probably my first choice too. But what do you mean now that KFFL is reporting...? What's changed? He's been a free agent for a while, and he was always going to test the market[/quote]

Sorry I said that from the "world revolves around me" perspective. Basically I had heard a few weeks ago that the Dolphins were hell bent on keeping him, now I'm getting mixed signals from both sides, but the consensus seems to be that he is going to at least test the free agent market. Ironically KFFL also cited a source that said it's possible that the Dolphins might move Carey back to Guard should he re-sign.

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[quote=Dirtbag359;527289]Sorry I said that from the "world revolves around me" perspective. Basically I had heard a few weeks ago that the Dolphins were hell bent on keeping him, now I'm getting mixed signals from both sides, but the consensus seems to be that he is going to at least test the free agent market. Ironically KFFL also cited a source that said it's possible that the Dolphins might move Carey back to Guard should he re-sign.[/quote]
might as well give him a ring

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[quote=SFREDSKIN;527281]I worry about Peepers for 2 reasons:

1- He wants to play in a 3-4 defense and is 29 YO.
2- Any player that plays on a winning team and demands a trade if he's tagged as a franchise player, sounds like he cares more about the money than winning.

I say stay away from him.[/quote]

3- Peppers is going to be too expensive, and the team has repeatedly stated that they will not sign a big time free agent, plus we prob wouldn't have the cap space.
4- I think going after another veteran DE that's going to cost $$ will not sit well with the fans. Granted, it's not like the fans run the team, but I can see an uproar by the fanbase just like when Snyder almost hired Fassel.