Re: Dockery Cut:
 

[quote=GMScud;530327]This is a great point. You beat me to the punch. I wouldn't sign him for longer than 3 years.[/quote]Well, from a cap standpoint, it's going to be at least 5, as to prorate the signing bonus.

I'd do something like 5/25 for Dockery, max, with no more that 12 million guaranteed.

Wasn't his deal with Buffalo 7/49 with 23 guaranteed?

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

[quote=GTripp0012;530328]Well, from a cap standpoint, [B]it's going to be at least 5, as to prorate the signing bonus.[/B]

I'd do something like 5/25 for Dockery, max, with no more that 12 million guaranteed.

Wasn't his deal with Buffalo 7/49 with 23 guaranteed?[/quote]

I didn't think of the prorated bonus. I suppose all this stuff is rendered moot if we go into next year with no CBA.

I'm not sure about his guaranteed money in Buffalo, but it was 7/$49M.

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

Posted at 1:02 PM ET, 02/26/2009
Skins Expected to Go After Dockery
Jason Reid and Jason La Canfora report:

The Redskins have expressed interest in former Skins guard Derrick Dockery, who was released today by the Buffalo Bills, and, according to league sources, are expected to pursue him this weekend

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

[quote=Ruhskins;530311]Hey just got cut by the team that gave him a huge contract. [B]That affect his ability to ask for more money[/B]. The advantage we have is that he's been here before and did well while playing for Buges.[/quote]
this happens all the time. just look at Hall, and what he is asking for. its all about the market

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

[quote=dmek25;530340]this happens all the time. just look at Hall, and what he is asking for. its all about the market[/quote]

Hall came here and played lights out for our team, this included a couple of nationally televised games where he received lots of praises. Dockery played in a poor offensive line all of last year and the Bills had to cut him after giving him a huge contract two years ago. I don't think you can compare the two.

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

[quote=Ruhskins;530345]Hall came here and played lights out for our team, this included a couple of nationally televised games where he received lots of praises. [B]Dockery played in a poor offensive line all of last year and the Bills had to cut him after giving him a huge contract two years ago. I don't think you can compare the two.[/B][/quote]Uhhhh....

[quote][Hall] played [on] a poor [team] last year and the [Raiders] had to cut him after giving him a huge contract [less than a] year ago. I [absolutely] think you can compare the two.[/quote]

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

[quote=Ruhskins;530323]Like when they lined him up against Terrell Suggs? LOL.[/quote]

I dont know what this dudes thinking... we put our backup center at Left Tackle against a pro-bowler with no TE help... its amazing Jason Campbell is still alive.

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

Be nice to have him back cheap. He is closing in on 30 but he could play for 3 years at least, enough time to draft their replacements. If we do sign him, does that mean we shy away from possibility of getting Duke Robinson or Alex Mack in the draft and focus specifically on the Tackles? :(

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

[quote=GTripp0012;530347]Uhhhh....[/quote]

Dockery did not get the chance to play for another team last year where he played well. If Hall had stayed with the Raiders and play poorly the entire year, then YES, these two situations would be the same. Hall can try to negotiate for more money due to his performance in the second half of last season here in Washington. Dockery on the other hand played poorly [U]the entire season[/U], so no, he shouldn't be able to negotiate for more money.

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

[quote=Ruhskins;530357]Dockery did not get the chance to play for another team last year where he played well. If Hall had stayed with the Raiders and play poorly the entire year, then YES, these two situations would be the same. Hall can try to negotiate for more money due to his performance in the second half of last season here in Washington. Dockery on the other hand played poorly [U]the entire season[/U], so no, he shouldn't be able to negotiate for more money.[/quote]I wouldn't say that Dockery played poorly the whole season. I wouldn't say that at all.

I would say that the Bills were expecting something totally different when they gave him a truckload of money back in 07. They wanted a lynchpin for the entire line for the next 5 years or so that would ensure they could put the ball on the ground behind the left side and be very successful when they needed to be.

What they got was Derrick Dockery. Quite predictable to Redskins fans, obviously, but that was the defining move of Marv Levy's Front Office career, and it was certainly a head scratcher.

This is NOT unlike Hall and Oakland. Oakland wanted to have an elite cornerback tandem with Asomugha and they pegged Hall as the guy who could get them to the next level.

What they got was DeAngelo Hall. Again, predictable.

Now, Hall was much better for us, as you would imagine, but he's still the same player he was in Oakland and Atlanta. There's no doubt the atmousphere is more conducive to success here than in Oakland, but that goes for everyone we sign, not just Hall.

Anyway, I think these situations are pretty comparable from a money standpoint.

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;530351]I dont know what this dudes thinking... we put our backup center at Left Tackle against a pro-bowler with no TE help... its amazing Jason Campbell is still alive.[/quote]That was one of the more...entertaining moments of the season.

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

[quote=Daseal;530133]Just heard it on NFL radio -- will work on finding a link. Would you give him a decent contract to have him come back? I know I would![/quote]I wouldn't give him the Steve Hutchinson money that the Bills gave Dock two years ago, but I would definitely talk to his agent. The beauty of a Dockery signing would be the much shorter timeframe to establish chemistry with Samuels and Rabach since he played with both while he was here.

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

[quote=GTripp0012;530371]That was one of the more...entertaining moments of the season.[/quote]

Seriously. I took the Lord's name in vain about 20x in two minutes when he was lined up on Suggs.

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

I thought the comparison we were talking about with Hall and Dockery was whether Dockery could demand big money right now. My suspicion is he can't. Had he been cut in the middle of the season, then been picked up by another team at a relatively bargain price, played well and gotten back on the market at the end of the season that would be one thing...that would be DeAngelo Hall. But that's not the case with DD

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;530322]A couple of comments:

1. Once a player is cut/released he is a free agent and there are no tampering restrictions related to other teams contacting him and signing him. See Gibril Wilson and his deal with the Dolphins as an example...

2. Good to see that all the Warpathers who were so angry when Dockery left here to sign with the Bills have forgiven him.

3. Someone had the 2009 OL with the following people as back-ups:

Heyer, Jansen, Rhinehart and Geisinger.

That is a recipe for needing to go through all of 2009 with no injuries to the OL starters. Jansen is the ONLY player there who has shown ANY consistent abiltiy to play at the NFL level and he is clearly on the downslope of his career. Heyer reportedly works hard and tries hard - - but on Sundays he strives to be adequate. Geisinger played a couple of snaps last year and looked shell-shocked. Rhinehart could not show enough to get dressed for most games.

[B]If those are the back-ups, start now sacrifcing goats to the football gods to prevent any OL injuries...[/B]


4. Recall that Dockery showed great improvement here in Washington last time in his "contract year". In Buffalo, he had a long-term deal and played poorly enough to get cut. If they sign him here, I'd suggest a SHORT term deal.[/quote]

Watch it buddy...

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;530307]Now that he has lost your vote, I am sure Vinny will have him signed tonight ;)[/quote]

LOL, ESPN980 just reported the Pats are going to pursue Hall, as i speculated. If the moneys comparable, i dont know why Hall would sign with us instead.

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;530386]LOL, ESPN980 just reported the Pats are going to pursue Hall, as i speculated. If the moneys comparable, i dont know why Hall would sign with us instead.[/quote]

Because we're his favorite team and he wants to be here.

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;530386]LOL, ESPN980 just reported the Pats are going to pursue Hall, as i speculated. If the moneys comparable, i dont know why Hall would sign with us instead.[/quote]

What did they say exactly? Did they just repeat The Boston Globe's speculation that Hall might be a free agent they could consider?

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

[quote=GMScud;530375]Seriously. I took the Lord's name in vain about 20x in two minutes when he was lined up on Suggs.[/quote]When I named Chris Samuels the #1 most indispensable player on the Redskins back in August...that's not exactly what I had in mind.

Which is why I after Jason walked off the field under his own power, I laughed my ass off for about 5 minutes.

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

Hall Loves DC and is not going to the PATS, and I would be suprised if the Camera operator would want someone with Halls alleged locker room issues. Who Knows

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;530289]Welcome to the preview of the post-salary cap era when the Bills will have a $15 million payroll.[/quote]

My thoughts exactly.

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

Ya but if hall really likes DC, he would have signed with us by now, I hate the pats, but I think they might get him... I just really hope he stays here, he's young and he's good

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

bringing him(doc) back wuld be so great.

and i hope to keep hall also.

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

[quote=Meks;530416]bringing him(doc) back wuld be so great.

and i hope to keep hall also.[/quote]

It's looking like we cannot get Hall, especially if we get AH, and after that we [B]might[/B] get another marquee free agent.

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

[quote=vallin21;530417]It's looking like we cannot get Hall, especially if we get AH, and after that we [B]might[/B] get another marquee free agent.[/quote]

why cant we get Hall?

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

and wheres the link to where the pats are interested in D Hall

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

Ok, some one with cap knowledge please help.

People keep posting how we can get all the free agents ...Haynesworth, Hall, Dockery, Canty and keep Taylor and even look for others. How can we do it? and are they correct in what they say ie; the thread starter. Is it possible?

Secondly, why are so many people or few people ready to shift Samuels to RT? #1 can he do it and #2 would he even want to?

Thirdly,(LOL) Why would we expierment with putting DD at RT or LT? He was used as a Guard cause he was not Tackle material. They tried to make the move with Wade cause he was taller and bigger but he could not do the job.

I'm not knocking DD I'm glad to have him back even if he did false start more often then anyone else.

I stand corrected it was not the thread starter. I think it was in another thread about free agency and salary cap I think.

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

[quote=Bubba305-ST21-;530421]and wheres the link to where the pats are interested in D Hall[/quote]

[url=http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extras/askreiss/02_24_09/?page=5]Ask Reiss: Constructing the 2009 Patriots - Boston.com[/url]

[quote]Any chance the Patriots pursue Gibril Wilson and DeAngelo Hall? I know Hall might want some coin but after one year in New England, along with good play, his stock would be high. And Gibril Wilson could pull a Randy Moss and come play for winner. I mean he is a better tackler than James Sanders is, and he was playing in Oakland. So maybe playing for a winner will revive his career. What do you think Reiss?

A: Lamar, I know the Patriots were interested in Hall when he was released from the Raiders last season. I think that there was some real disappointment inside the Gillette Stadium offices when Hall decided to sign with the Redskins, so I wouldn't be surprised if the Patriots revisit the possibility. Wilson, I'm not as certain about. He played for the Giants in 2007, winning a Super Bowl ring, so I don't know if I'd put him in the pre-New England Moss category.[/quote]

Wouldn't need to do this if they had kept Asante Samuel

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

[quote=Mattyk72;530137]Wow, guess they finally realized he wasn't worth that monster deal. I would certainly welcome him back with a more reasonable contract.[/quote]


let me guess? vet min. :vomit:

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

[quote=44ever;530418]why cant we get Hall?[/quote]

Hall's asking price is going to be too much for us afford especially if we get AH. There is [B]no way [/B]we get both. We cannot have Canty, Hall, AH, and DD because we have 12-14 mil of cap space. I also heard that Cerrato was frustrated with the negotiations w/Hall so if things don't work out by 12:01 he might just throw all our money at AH. I also heard that we making a play at Jason Brown from the Ravens. Did any of you guys hear that?

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

[quote=SmootSmack;530423][url=http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extras/askreiss/02_24_09/?page=5]Ask Reiss: Constructing the 2009 Patriots - Boston.com[/url]



Wouldn't need to do this if they had kept Asante Samuel[/quote]

Well Darth Hoody doesn't pay star players and he let's them go.

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

[quote=SmootSmack;530378]I thought the comparison we were talking about with Hall and Dockery was whether Dockery could demand big money right now. My suspicion is he can't. Had he been cut in the middle of the season, then been picked up by another team at a relatively bargain price, played well and gotten back on the market at the end of the season that would be one thing...that would be DeAngelo Hall. But that's not the case with DD[/quote]

This is what I've been tried to say all along. But some people are just stubborn.

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

[quote=vallin21;530427]Hall's asking price is going to be too much for us afford especially if we get AH. There is [B]no way [/B]we get both. We cannot have Canty, Hall, AH, and DD because we have 12-14 mil of cap space. [B]I also heard that Cerrato was frustrated with the negotiations w/Hall [/B]so if things don't work out by 12:01 he might just throw all our money at AH. I also heard that we making a play at Jason Brown from the Ravens. Did any of you guys hear that?[/quote]

He's probably frustrated with himself for playing hardball with Hall and now Hall has the upper hand. He may be frustrated but Hall is still a top priority for the Skins.

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

[quote=44ever;530435]He's probably frustrated with himself for playing hardball with Hall and now Hall has the upper hand. He may be frustrated but Hall is still a top priority for the Skins.[/quote]

The Sarge has no patience for anyone. LOL.

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

[quote=44ever;530435][B]He's probably frustrated with himself for playing hardball with Hall[/B] and now Hall has the upper hand. He may be frustrated but Hall is still a top priority for the Skins.[/quote]

Exactly, thats the main point. Had he not played hardball w/Hall earlier and just [B](paid him what he's really worth)[/B] we would probably wouldn't be having this discussion.

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

Get Dock back to DC!!!!

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

I heard that Jason Brown may be St. Louisy bound possibly or to another midwest team.
Wouldn't mind Haynesworth at all, but I always get worried when the Skins throw a shit ton of money at someone, they come here and never live up to their price tag.

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

[quote=vallin21;530442]Exactly, thats the main point. Had he not played hardball w/Hall earlier and just [B](paid him what he's really worth)[/B] we would probably wouldn't be having this discussion.[/quote]

Ironically though not meeting Hall's demands might have given us the cap space we needed to help fix our lines, though I still would like to see Hall come back here as that would really help with our defense getting turnovers.

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

i'd like foxworth (CB), dockery (LG), cromwell (LB) and draft orakpo (DE)... if we get haynesworth (and let golston walk for a 2nd or high 3rd) and draft two OL with that 2nd(or 3rd) and our original 3rd.

reinhart isn't going to be starting in two years. not going to happen (buges et al have been extremely unimpressed with his progress so far).

I think 5mill average is way too high for a guy that's probably the 20th best starting LG. hopefully we can get him for a 3-4mill hit this year, that's much more reasonable... he's not a pro-bowl type player and never will be.

Re: Dockery Cut:
 

I think the pats will go after hall for a few reasons, because when Asante Samuel left, they figured they'd be fine, but besides ellis Hobbs, they never had a second corner, bring in deltha oneal and drafting terrence Wheatley in the second round, so belichiek knew he was Wrong about being fine with his regular corners, plus the pats have a good amount of money to spend. Also the one major red flag with hall is that he argues with coaches, but the same was said with moss, and that one didn't end up so bad after all