Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

[quote=Lotus;547344]You make an excellent point, GMScud. It may be that, given our many needs, [B]coming out of the draft with just two studs, however studly they may be, is a luxury that we cannot afford.[/B]
I am correct that the June 1st secondary free agent date has been eliminated from the NFL calendar? I could be wrong but it seems to me that I read it somewhere.[/quote]

I would be tickled to death to come out of this draft with 2 studs. Especially with one being on the o-line and one being a LB. After we draft, you may be too. :)

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

[quote=53Fan;547343]Well another way of looking at it would be, are we going to get any starters the caliber of Mack with the later picks? I'm all for getting more picks but I doubt we would get a starter in the later rounds. Mack would probably start. If not right away, then very soon. It's possible we could get another Horton, but I would'nt put him on the same level as Mack. [B]As much as I would like depth, I'm more concerned about fielding a starting team that can move the ball.[/B][/quote]

I'm with you on the starting team argument. But if someone gets hurt, and you have no depth, then you wish you had had more picks. Plus who'd have thunk that Horton, nearly Mr. Irrelevant, would be such a great rookie starter? I know that it's rare to have such happen, though.

I suppose I'm not taking a side in this argument because I see the merits of both sides. It'd be great to have just a couple of real quality players. It'd be great to have many rookies in camp, too.

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

[quote=53Fan;547343]Well another way of looking at it would be, [B]are we going to get any starters the caliber of Mack with the later picks?[/B] I'm all for getting more picks but I doubt we would get a starter in the later rounds. Mack would probably start. If not right away, then very soon. It's possible we could get another Horton, but I would'nt put him on the same level as Mack. As much as I would like depth, I'm more concerned about fielding a starting team that can move the ball.[/quote]

No, but pre-draft, you can argue that about any 1st/2nd rounder as compared to later round players. I already made my argument with regard to the way the team currently feels about Rabach, and you even acknowledged that Mack may not even start right away for us. Then you say you're primarily concerned with fielding a [I]starting [/I]team that can move the ball. Our coaches/FO feel that Rabach is entrenched at the center position, so drafting Mack seems really unlikely. And even if we did, he may not be an immediate starter.

Look, I understand what you're getting at, but given our needs at DE, OT, and LB, I think packaging what little picks we have and putting our eggs in the basket of one player who plays a position that isn't even in our top 3 need spots... well you see what I mean.

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

[quote=Lotus;547346]I'm with you on the starting team argument. But if someone gets hurt, and you have no depth, then you wish you had had more picks. Plus who'd have thunk that Horton, nearly Mr. Irrelevant, would be such a great rookie starter? I know that it's rare to have such happen, though.

I suppose I'm not taking a side in this argument because I see the merits of both sides. It'd be great to have just a couple of real quality players. It'd be great to have many rookies in camp, too.[/quote]

I can see both sides too. We could sure use some more picks. But if we were to trade a couple of picks for a higher pick, say a 3rd and 5th for a 2nd and were able to get Mack, I'd jump on it. We'd only be losing one pick and be getting an outstanding player as opposed to whoever's available in the 3rd and 5th. If we had'nt given away our 2nd pick for that AWESOME :doh: Jason Taylor deal, we'd be sitting pretty good and probably wouldn't be having this conversation. :)

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

If we use ESPN's draft chart [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2410670"]here[/URL], we see that Mack (or whoever else) would have to fall pretty far in the second round before we could put together a third and a fifth to get him.

Yeah, that 2nd pick for Jason Taylor was not the best trade. Neither was the 7th for Erasmus James, who was about to get cut anyway.

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

[quote=GMScud;547347]No, but pre-draft, you can argue that about any 1st/2nd rounder as compared to later round players. I already made my argument with regard to the way the team currently feels about Rabach, and [B]you even acknowledged that Mack may not even start right away for us. Then you say you're primarily concerned with fielding a [I]starting [/I]team that can move the ball.[/B] Our coaches/FO feel that Rabach is entrenched at the center position, so drafting Mack seems really unlikely. And even if we did, he may not be an immediate starter.

Look, I understand what you're getting at, but given our needs at DE, OT, and LB, I think packaging what little picks we have and putting our eggs in the basket of one player who plays a position that isn't even in our top 3 need spots... well you see what I mean.[/quote]

What I meant by that is he may sit the first few games but I think he would start by mid-season. Anyway I understand your point GMScud.

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

I edited my earlier post because I meant to pose a question, this question: Is there still a June 1 milestone on the NFL calendar?

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

[quote=Lotus;547331]Given what we have to work with, that would be a very good draft.

Of course, the problem there is the limited number of players which we would score. We would really not be adding any depth, a perennial Redskins problem. [B]And we would still have OT issues[/B]. I'm not disagreeing with the draft strategy as much as I am lamenting the paltry number of picks which we have to work with.[/quote]

Excellent point Lotus. Our biggest depth issues are @ OT and LB i think (along w/ center if we acknowledge Rabach as a liability. Seems like the FO is foregoing a high rated OT in this draft cuz none are likely to fall to us. Well, i've been saying it will be totally irresponsible for us to enter the season w/ our current set of OTs - we need to add a legit guy. I think the FO needs to bite the bullet and pay a guy like Levi Jones (likely to be cut after the draft) enough money to sign w/ us...let Jansen, Heyer, new guy compete for the starting job and keep the other two as backups knowing damn well there will be injuries regardless of the who the starter is. This is common sense IMHO...so I doubt it goes down this way.

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

[quote=Lotus;547351]I edited my earlier post because I meant to pose a question, this question: Is there still a June 1 milestone on the NFL calendar?[/quote]

I'm drawing a blank because I thought I read about a change somewhere. Good question.

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

No the June 1 designation was canceled guys...can't remember when exactly. Like i keep sayin we should see some nice talent on the market shortly after next weekend. I hope the FO's stinginess since the beginning of FA has been purposeful in that regard...

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

[quote=The Goat;547352]Excellent point Lotus. Our biggest depth issues are @ OT and LB i think (along w/ center if we acknowledge Rabach as a liability. Seems like the FO is foregoing a high rated OT in this draft cuz none are likely to fall to us. Well, i've been saying it will be totally irresponsible for us to enter the season w/ our current set of OTs - we need to add a legit guy. I think the FO needs to bite the bullet and pay a guy like Levi Jones (likely to be cut after the draft) enough money to sign w/ us...let Jansen, Heyer, new guy compete for the starting job and keep the other two as backups knowing damn well there will be injuries regardless of the who the starter is. This is common sense IMHO...so I doubt it goes down this way.[/quote]

To me the thing about tackle is this:
1) We really need an LDE upgrade but we can stick Daniels/Wynn in there if we have to
2) We need a SLB upgrade because MW has lost a step (sorry 53Fan!), but I think it will work out so that we can bring MW back, as he is not a FA hot commodity
3) but at tackle we have no such fall-backs. We have what we had last year and that was demonstrably unsatisfactory. So to me, tackle is the biggest need.

I wonder how healthy Levi Jones is?

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

[quote=The Goat;547355]No the June 1 designation was canceled guys...can't remember when exactly. Like i keep sayin we should see some nice talent on the market shortly after next weekend. I hope the FO's stinginess since the beginning of FA has been purposeful in that regard...[/quote]

Thanks Goat!

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

You may be right about Levi Jones Goat. But I wonder if others with more cap room are also going to be interested if he's cut. I would think there would be some interest in him.

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

[quote=Lotus;547356]To me the thing about tackle is this:
1) We really need an LDE upgrade but we can stick Daniels/Wynn in there if we have to
2) [B]We need a SLB upgrade because MW has lost a step (sorry 53Fan!), but I think it will work out so that we can bring MW back, as he is not a FA hot commodity[/B]
3) but at tackle we have no such fall-backs. We have what we had last year and that was demonstrably unsatisfactory. So to me, tackle is the biggest need.

I wonder how healthy Levi Jones is?[/quote]

As much as it sucks to say I doubt Marcus is coming back. If the FO thought he would re-sign this bust Thomas wouldn't have been signed, unless Thomas is meant to backup Rocky at WLB since Khary Campbell probably isn't coming back either...just thought of that.

Anyway I'd luv to get Marcus back even if we draft Rey Rey.

Levi hasn't been healthy for the last two seasons but @ 29 i doubt he's done for good. He's extremely talented and I bet he won't command top dollar cuz there's so much OT talent in the draft (most teams will have what they need). Our FO would be wise to sign him IMO...think of it this way he'd be a legit backup to Samuels if the guy gets nicked up again. Right now we basically have nothing to backup Samuels which again brings me back to the FO being irresponsible w/ our OT situation.

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

[quote=Lotus;547356]To me the thing about tackle is this:
1) We really need an LDE upgrade but we can stick Daniels/Wynn in there if we have to
2) We need a SLB upgrade because MW has lost a step [B](sorry 53Fan![/B]), but I think it will work out so that we can bring MW back, as he is not a FA hot commodity
3) but at tackle we have no such fall-backs. We have what we had last year and that was demonstrably unsatisfactory. So to me, tackle is the biggest need.

I wonder how healthy Levi Jones is?[/quote]

:laughing- He's still better than anything [B]we've[/B] got.

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

[quote=53Fan;547360]:laughing- He's still better than anything [B]we've[/B] got.[/quote]

Yes sir.

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

Thomas can play all 3 LB positions but he admits that weakside is his best position. I was surprised to read that D. Hall was instrumental in getting him to sign here. They were teammates in Oakland and Hall told him he would really like it here. That it was nothing like Oakland. Hall seems to think highly of him.

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

[quote=53Fan;547364]Thomas can play all 3 LB positions but he admits that weakside is his best position. I was surprised to read that D. Hall was instrumental in getting him to sign here. They were teammates in Oakland and Hall told him he would really like it here. That it was nothing like Oakland. Hall seems to think highly of him.[/quote]

Oakland is where players go to die - or where they escape from to be resurrected.

Nice chatting with you guys. G'night and have a great day tomorrow.

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

[quote=53Fan;547364]Thomas can play all 3 LB positions but he admits that weakside is his best position. I was surprised to read that D. Hall was instrumental in getting him to sign here. They were teammates in Oakland and Hall told him he would really like it here. That it was nothing like Oakland. Hall seems to think highly of him.[/quote]

Saw that too...Hall had some very positive things to say about Thomas. I think i'm more comfortable w/ the signing if he's just here to replace Khary...don't have any problem w/ the guy competing for a starting job but w/ his injury history we'd be nuts to rely on him.

...it always brings me back to the point about preferring Marcus to just about anyone else available in FA. Most of em have injury history, but they don't know our system and don't bring the intangibles Marcus brings. I wish the dude would just swallow his pride and re-sign on the cheap...shit he's still getting all the money from his release fee so we're paying him either way and dammit nobody looks to be paying him more than we're offering. Stubborn bloke!!

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

[quote=Lotus;547366]Oakland is where players go to die - or where they escape from to be resurrected.

Nice chatting with you guys. G'night and have a great day tomorrow.[/quote]

Same to u bro.

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

[quote=The Goat;547367]Saw that too...Hall had some very positive things to say about Thomas. I think i'm more comfortable w/ the signing if he's just here to replace Khary...don't have any problem w/ the guy competing for a starting job but w/ his injury history we'd be nuts to rely on him.

...it always brings me back to the point about preferring Marcus to just about anyone else available in FA. Most of em have injury history, but they don't know our system and don't bring the intangibles Marcus brings. I wish the dude would just swallow his pride and re-sign on the cheap...shit he's still getting all the money from his release fee so we're paying him either way and dammit nobody looks to be paying him more than we're offering. [B]Stubborn bloke[/B]!![/quote]

I agree with everything you're saying. Yeah I'm afraid he's gonna wait to late and the FO is gonna say they already have the position filled. Pride can be a bitch.

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

Have a good one Lotus. I think we've officially highjacked this thread. :)

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

[quote=53Fan;547371]Have a good one Lotus. I think we've officially highjacked this thread. :)[/quote]

I'm outta here too sir...have a good sleep.

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

Wow leave before the party gets here ouch!

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

[quote=The Goat;547367]Saw that too...Hall had some very positive things to say about Thomas. I think i'm more comfortable w/ the signing if he's just here to replace Khary...don't have any problem w/ the guy competing for a starting job but w/ his injury history we'd be nuts to rely on him.

...it always brings me back to the point about preferring Marcus to just about anyone else available in FA. Most of em have injury history, but they don't know our system and don't bring the intangibles Marcus brings. I wish the dude would just swallow his pride and re-sign on the cheap...shit he's still getting all the money from his release fee so we're paying him either way and dammit nobody looks to be paying him more than we're offering. Stubborn bloke!![/quote]

Marcus might come back after the draft, depending on who we select. He won't come back before then.

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

while i don't want Boldin, i think he is a better option then drafting Sanchez. i just don't see the point of that

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

[quote=dmek25;547389]while i don't want Boldin, i think he is a better option then drafting Sanchez. i just don't see the point of that[/quote]


No one does see the point of that except Danny, and I don't even think he is 100 percent sure

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

I doubt this will happen but could they get away with giving next yrs 1st and this yrs 3rd rounder? It's a lot to give for one player even the Giants snubbed their collective noses at the deal but if the Cards are not getting any takers would they go for this years 3rd and next yrs 1st?

Then we would most likely have to try to trade back to get another pick for the draft. Unless Zorn has been quietly advocating for Sanchez. I know some have said only DS and Cerrato want Sanchez and Zorn has said JC is his QB but what if Zorn felt JC could not read defenses like some of us have said in the past. What if Zorn does not think JC will ever over come this. To keep from having a disgruntled QB the coach, I would think, would need to apear to be wanting to keep the QB he has in case nothing changes come season start. In order to keep a decent relationship. However, DS and Cerrato are a different story. Perhaps why the trade for Cutler almost took place. Perhaps why they are looking at Sanchez.

I like JC and think he deserves another yr but what if after this yr he bombs. Then you have to go out and get a new QB and get him up to speed with the play calls and hope he does well. Atleast this way they can have Sanchez learning the play calls and speed of the game the whole while JC is trying to prove himself. If JC does the same this yr they could let him go and move Sanchez right in to position.

I still think we need a viable WR though and hope Thomas turns out to be the man. I like Kelly but am worried about his knees and wonder actually how bad off they are and will they come around to allow him to produce.

All I know is this draft will be interesting cause we all know what we need and know Cerrato usually does not pick for need so who knows what we will get.

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

I don't think it makes any sense to get Boldin, when we have two unproven second year guys who are under the mentorship of Moss and ARE. I say let them build a chemistry for the next two yrs with Campbell. If not then we try again with some other guys, but I don't believe in depending on free agency and trading to fix minor holes. Build thru the draft, that is unless we're drafting Sanchez

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

[quote=53Fan;547348]I can see both sides too. We could sure use some more picks. But if we were to trade a couple of picks for a higher pick, say a 3rd and 5th for a 2nd and were able to get Mack, I'd jump on it. We'd only be losing one pick and be getting an outstanding player as opposed to whoever's available in the 3rd and 5th. If we had'nt given away our 2nd pick for that AWESOME :doh: Jason Taylor deal, we'd be sitting pretty good and probably wouldn't be having this conversation. :)[/quote]

AT THE TIME, a second round pick (and a sixth) for Jason Taylor was a good deal. He's been a stud his entire career and was coming off a great season. Plus Daniels and Buzbee had just gone done with season-ending injuries in training camp.
Unfortunately, Taylor didn't fit our defensive scheme.
"Hindsight is 20/20 my friend."

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

[quote=The Goat;547352]Excellent point Lotus. Our biggest depth issues are @ OT and LB i think (along w/ center if we acknowledge Rabach as a liability. Seems like the FO is foregoing a high rated OT in this draft cuz none are likely to fall to us. Well, i've been saying it will be totally irresponsible for us to enter the season w/ our current set of OTs - we need to add a legit guy. I think the FO needs to bite the bullet and pay a guy like Levi Jones (likely to be cut after the draft) enough money to sign w/ us...let Jansen, Heyer, new guy compete for the starting job and keep the other two as backups knowing damn well there will be injuries regardless of the who the starter is. This is common sense IMHO...so I doubt it goes down this way.[/quote]

I'm not sure we'll have enough money to sign a guy like Levi Jones. We're strapped as it is after signing kolston and monty plus we have to sign our draft picks. It would be great but is probably unlikely.

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

[quote=John Denny;547412]I'm not sure we'll have enough money to sign a guy like Levi Jones. We're strapped as it is after signing kolston and monty plus we have to sign our draft picks. It would be great but is probably unlikely.[/quote]


Ok, I'm totally lost now. We sign AH, Hall, and bring back Dock for like 180 mill with only 13 or 14 mill at the time. Right now we have 9.4 mill according to our guru's on here. Your telling me we can't sign any decent OL cause we are strapped? I know most likely the Rookie pool will be like 3 to 4 mill. So that would leave us with like 5 or 6 mill to play with still.

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

[quote=SBXVII;547417]Ok, I'm totally lost now. We sign AH, Hall, and bring back Dock for like 180 mill with only 13 or 14 mill at the time. Right now we have 9.4 mill according to our guru's on here. Your telling me we can't sign any decent OL cause we are strapped? I know most likely the Rookie pool will be like 3 to 4 mill. So that would leave us with like 5 or 6 mill to play with still.[/quote]

I stand corrected.

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

[quote=SBXVII;547417]Ok, I'm totally lost now. We sign AH, Hall, and bring back Dock for like 180 mill with only 13 or 14 mill at the time. Right now we have 9.4 mill according to our guru's on here. Your telling me we can't sign any decent OL cause we are strapped? I know most likely the Rookie pool will be like 3 to 4 mill. So that would leave us with like 5 or 6 mill to play with still.[/quote]

I say you wait till draft day at the earliest now though. Figure out if you're gonna move players, bring other ones in, if you'll pick where you're at, move up, down, both, etc.

Trade down or ship some players out and more room in the cap -- trade up, you might need to shave even more from your cap to accomodate your pick. No sense in worrying about it much till then.

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

Would a 1st and 3rd be too much to trade for Jerry Rice in his prime? Not saying Boldin is there yet, but he's got the potential. A 1st and 3rd is not too much -- Boldin is special. Dude racked up 200+ yards in his first game as a pro.

Yeah, we have other needs, but I say if we can do it, then we should.

:twocents:

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

Actually I don't know about this. Perhaps it would be worth getting Sanchez over Boldin. Only if those were my two options. The truth we already have receivers and Vinny can't give up on his draft class yet. Finally if JC really doesn't have the confidence of the FO then it's time to move on now...

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;547447]Would a 1st and 3rd be too much to trade for Jerry Rice in his prime? Not saying Boldin is there yet, but he's got the potential. A 1st and 3rd is not too much -- Boldin is special. Dude racked up 200+ yards in his first game as a pro.

Yeah, we have other needs, but I say if we can do it, then we should.

:twocents:[/quote]

I understand what you are saying. Boldin has been a beast.

However I have 4 reservations:
1) we have bigger needs than WR and we could use those picks to fill those needs
2) Boldin wants big $$$ and likely would wreck our cap
3) How many of Boldin's exploits have been because Fitzgerald has been on the other side, distracting the defense?
4) Boldin has an injury history, is getting older, and may have a shortened career because of his hard-nosed style. We may get only 2 or 3 years out of him and maybe less

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

[quote=Lotus;547626]I understand what you are saying. Boldin has been a beast.

However I have 4 reservations:
1) we have bigger needs than WR and we could use those picks to fill those needs
[b]2) Boldin wants big $$$ and likely would wreck our cap[/b]
3) How many of Boldin's exploits have been because Fitzgerald has been on the other side, distracting the defense?
4) Boldin has an injury history, is getting older, and may have a shortened career because of his hard-nosed style. We may get only 2 or 3 years out of him and maybe less[/quote]

Good post overall, but I wanted to comment on the bolded:
Exactly...Rice didn't have to deal with the cap like we do now since there was no cap back then. Although on a side note, he was pushed out of SF because of cap issues. If we were talking no cap involved, then ghettodogallstars would be on the right track, but we are not. We often look at the team like one would a fantasy football team and you can get anyone, but our team with the cap involved is more like a puzzle. You can't throw any piece in there and expect it to fit. Especially one as big as Boldin needing to fit into a tiny space.

Re: Boldin a Redskin?
 

The Skins are gonna try to cultivate Thomas and Kelly and to bring in
Boldin would retard the effort.