Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

[quote=The Goat;548207]Though I know it won't ever happen, hypothetically, would it help or hurt JC's stock w/ other franchises at this point if he came out tomorrow asking to be traded? I'm just curious.[/quote]

I don't know. I think GTripp once said that demanding a trade increases your value, or something like that. I do know, and it's not about demanding a trade necessarily, that the Redskins aren't the only team that wishes he wasn't so "calm" all the time. It's sort of strange, I know, but there are a lot of coaches and GMs out there who think he's flying a bit too much under the radar emotion wise.

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

[quote=SmootSmack;548211]I don't know. I think GTripp once said that demanding a trade increases your value, or something like that. I do know, and it's not about demanding a trade necessarily, that the Redskins aren't the only team that wishes he wasn't so "calm" all the time. It's sort of strange, I know, but there are a lot of coaches and GMs out there who think he's flying a bit too much under the radar emotion wise.[/quote]I think demanding a trade simply sets a market where there wasn't one before. In Campbell's case, I think it would increase his value in a trade because the Redskins haven't yet openly shopped him. If the Redskins do openly shop him, then the market is only what other teams bid it up to.

Generally speaking, it decreases trade value to openly ask for a trade, but it's a different dynamic for an "established" player than one with "potential".

Because the Broncos sold Jay Cutler as an "established" player, when the evidence suggested otherwise, they drove the market through the roof for him. Campbell has virtually the same statistical background, but because the Redskins failed to market him to the best of their ability, it becomes a buyers market, as opposed to a sellers market, if Campbell asks for a trade. Right now, it's no market at all.

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

[quote=SmootSmack;548035]We're less than a week away from DECISION DAY 2009!!!

So, based on the players that are most often rumored to be our pick at #13 who would you MOST want us to draft. I know more names than these have been mentioned, just trying to keep the list tight.

(Doubtful Sanchez will be there at 13, but I threw him in there)

Remember, this isn't about trading up or down. This is we have the 13th pick, so we pick at 13. Who do you want?[/quote]

If Orakpo is there i think he will have a great impact on the defense.
He could be that missing pass rush element that could turn our good defense into a aggressive pass rush turnover producing defense.
Imagine Orakpo playing next to Haynesworth....

But, in order to take him over an OT or LB you must have faith like me that:

1) Samuels will bounce back from his injury.
Heyer will to take hold of the RT spot.
Jansen can provide solid veteran depth.
-And you still must address the youth issue at OT later in the draft.
2) Chris Wilson and Blades will be steady at the SAM OLB spot

Rakpo-Rakpo-Rakpo-Rakpo-Rakpo
Does anyone really think he'll be there at 13?
i don't

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

[quote=GMScud;548208]Sanchez number #2, huh? Could happen I guess. Josh Freeman would love that.[/quote]

Well, well, well...look who's now speculating about Sanchez to the Rams

[url=http://blogs.nbcsports.com/home/archives/2009/04/rams-leaning-monroe-and-sanche.html]Rams Leaning Monroe . . . Or Sanchez? - NBC Sports Blogs[/url]

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

[quote=SmootSmack;548211]I don't know. I think GTripp once said that demanding a trade increases your value, or something like that. [B]I do know, and it's not about demanding a trade necessarily, that the Redskins aren't the only team that wishes he wasn't so "calm" all the time. It's sort of strange, I know, but there are a lot of coaches and GMs out there who think he's flying a bit too much under the radar emotion wise.[/B][/quote]

I know what u mean here. Part of the time I just applaud JC for staying calm and collected throughout this ordeal, the rest of the time i almost blame him for not demanding a trade away from the trainwreck that is Snyder/Cerrato. Honestly if I was a GM (for another franchise) I'd be wary of JC's conciliatory attitude toward his own franchise's behavior. Could it be Jason doesn't "eat, sleep and breath" professional football...when he sees all the crap going on around he just picks up the game controller or something?

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

[quote=SmootSmack;548224]Well, well, well...look who's now speculating about Sanchez to the Rams

[URL="http://blogs.nbcsports.com/home/archives/2009/04/rams-leaning-monroe-and-sanche.html"]Rams Leaning Monroe . . . Or Sanchez? - NBC Sports Blogs[/URL][/quote]

Whether or not St. Louis is interested, I suppose it would be foolish not to float the rumor given how much interest Sanchez has generated lately. It's no secret they're looking to move that pick. Might as well stir the pot a little for their own benefit.

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

[quote=GMScud;548238]Whether or not St. Louis is interested, I suppose it would be foolish not to float the rumor given how much interest Sanchez has generated lately. It's no secret they're looking to move that pick. Might as well stir the pot a little for their own benefit.[/quote]

No doubt

On a somewhat related note, interesting piece here by JLC. According to Sanchez, he's been told he'd have to earn the #1 spot here. Which I think is a bit ridiculous. If you're going to take him, and especially if you're trading up to take him, because you think he's Matt Ryan then just hand him the keys from day one

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/mark-sanchez-raves-about-his-v.html]Redskins Insider - Mark Sanchez Raves About His Redskins Visit[/url]

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

[quote=SmootSmack;548239]No doubt

On a somewhat related note, interesting piece here by JLC. According to Sanchez, he's been told he'd have to earn the #1 spot here. Which I think is a bit ridiculous. If you're going to take him, and especially if you're trading up to take him, because you think he's Matt Ryan then just hand him the keys from day one

[URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/mark-sanchez-raves-about-his-v.html"]Redskins Insider - Mark Sanchez Raves About His Redskins Visit[/URL][/quote]The whole situation just doesn't add up. This is just one more fact in a line of them that draw no clear path.

[LIST][*]All reports use the word "smitten" to describe Snyder's attitude towards Sanchez. It's been many decades since anyone has used that term, and yet, multiple outlets use it within a day or so? Sounds like a direct leak.[*]We don't have a plethora of cap room, but we're supposedly trying to get in the top 5, where the rookie pool might end up exceeding our cap room.[*]Jay Cutler. We chased him hard because we thought he was the missing piece. We didn't get him, and now it's Sanchez? Really?[*]Cerrato pulled an eleventh hour trade down last year, and now were considering going [I]up?[/I][*]No one in the Redskins organization has ever tried to squash these rumors at all. All Snyder has done is thrown gasoline on the fire. He might just be this short-sighted, or he might be wise enough to leverage his position. Prior evidence suggests he's probably just shortsighted.[*]We've avoided adding pretty much any help in free agency after the Dockery signing, despite unexpectedly cutting Jason Taylor since then.[*]We're frank enough to tell Sanchez where he stands with us, but we're okay going "behind" Campbell's back (I say "behind" because if it is a smokescreen, Campbell's in on it).[*]Brian Orakpo might be a simultaneous smokescreen, or a last ditch attempt to divert attention from Sanchez.[*]We can't even outbid other teams who need Sanchez' services far more than we do.[/LIST]I don't know guys. This situation reeks of botched management. My best guess: the Skins were prepared to trade the farm for Sanchez, then got a grip and backed off, and are now using it as an elaborate smokescreen. An accidental smokescreen that looks perfectly executed because at one point, it was in fact plan A.

I'm thinking the allure of Mark Sanchez might have actually worn off before draft day. Who knows, if the draft was ten days ago, I think he's wearing B & G, and we're not picking in the first round next year.

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

[quote=SmootSmack;548239]No doubt

On a somewhat related note, interesting piece here by JLC. According to Sanchez, he's been told he'd have to earn the #1 spot here. Which I think is a bit ridiculous. If you're going to take him, and especially if you're trading up to take him, because you think he's Matt Ryan then just hand him the keys from day one

[URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/mark-sanchez-raves-about-his-v.html"]Redskins Insider - Mark Sanchez Raves About His Redskins Visit[/URL][/quote]


I agree that does seem a bit redunant but it wouldn't be the Redskins if everyone understood the logic behind what they do.

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

"He's proud of the guys they have here, and he thinks the world of Jason Campbell, that was obvious." Obvious?

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

[quote=SmootSmack;548239]No doubt

On a somewhat related note, interesting piece here by JLC. According to Sanchez,[B] he's been told he'd have to earn the #1 spot here. Which I think is a bit ridiculous. [/B]If you're going to take him, and especially if you're trading up to take him, because you think he's Matt Ryan then just hand him the keys from day one

[URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/mark-sanchez-raves-about-his-v.html"]Redskins Insider - Mark Sanchez Raves About His Redskins Visit[/URL][/quote]

Promising Sanchez the keys to the car from day one would basically cancel out Campbell. His trade value would plummet, and he'd likely walk after '09. Not to mention what it would do to the locker room. Snyder was just going status quo. With Campbell on the team, Sanchez would have to compete for the job. That's a no brainer. That doesn't mean Campbell couldn't be traded after drafting Sanchez. At least we're not tipping our hand in that regard. Currently, telling him anything other than what we are would be foolish. At this point I'd say it's possible (however unlikely), that we're running a good bluff.

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

[quote=GTripp0012;548240]The whole situation just doesn't add up. This is just one more fact in a line of them that draw no clear path.

[LIST][*]All reports use the word "smitten" to describe Snyder's attitude towards Sanchez. It's been many decades since anyone has used that term, and yet, multiple outlets use it within a day or so? Sounds like a direct leak.[*]We don't have a plethora of cap room, but we're supposedly trying to get in the top 5, where the rookie pool might end up exceeding our cap room.[*]Jay Cutler. We chased him hard because we thought he was the missing piece. We didn't get him, and now it's Sanchez? Really?[*]Cerrato pulled an eleventh hour trade down last year, and now were considering going [I]up?[/I][*]No one in the Redskins organization has ever tried to squash these rumors at all. All Snyder has done is thrown gasoline on the fire. He might just be this short-sighted, or he might be wise enough to leverage his position. Prior evidence suggests he's probably just shortsighted.[*]We've avoided adding pretty much any help in free agency after the Dockery signing, despite unexpectedly cutting Jason Taylor since then.[*]We're frank enough to tell Sanchez where he stands with us, but we're okay going "behind" Campbell's back (I say "behind" because if it is a smokescreen, Campbell's in on it).[*]Brian Orakpo might be a simultaneous smokescreen, or a last ditch attempt to divert attention from Sanchez.[*]We can't even outbid other teams who need Sanchez' services far more than we do.[/LIST]I don't know guys. This situation reeks of botched management. My best guess: the Skins were prepared to trade the farm for Sanchez, then got a grip and backed off, and are now using it as an elaborate smokescreen. An accidental smokescreen that looks perfectly executed because at one point, it was in fact plan A.

I'm thinking the allure of Mark Sanchez might have actually worn off before draft day. Who knows, if the draft was ten days ago, I think he's wearing B & G, and we're not picking in the first round next year.[/quote]

Good post I especially agree with the last part of that. But who knows he could still be playing in the B & G and we aren't picking in the first round next year.

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

[quote=GMScud;548243]Promising Sanchez the keys to the car from day one would basically cancel out Campbell. His trade value would plummet, and he'd likely walk after '09. Not to mention what it would do to the locker room. Snyder was just going status quo. With Campbell on the team, Sanchez would have to compete for the job. That's a no brainer. That doesn't mean Campbell couldn't be traded after drafting Sanchez. At least we're not tipping our hand in that regard. Currently, telling him anything other than what we are would be foolish. At this point I'd say it's possible (however unlikely), that we're running a good bluff.[/quote]


Just trying to get everyone to sip the Kool-Aid I suppose, problem is we are the only ones drinking it.

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

[quote=GTripp0012;548240]The whole situation just doesn't add up. This is just one more fact in a line of them that draw no clear path.

[LIST][*]All reports use the word "smitten" to describe Snyder's attitude towards Sanchez. It's been many decades since anyone has used that term, and yet, multiple outlets use it within a day or so? Sounds like a direct leak.[/quote]

The term was used just a couple of years ago with us and Calvin Johnson

[quote][*]We don't have a plethora of cap room, but we're supposedly trying to get in the top 5, where the rookie pool might end up exceeding our cap room.[/quote]

Not to mention a QB would be a the upper echelon of the rookie scale

[quote][*]Jay Cutler. We chased him hard because we thought he was the missing piece. We didn't get him, and now it's Sanchez? Really?[/quote]

As simple as ABC (Anyone But Campbell...or Always Bet on Colt)

[quote][*]Cerrato pulled an eleventh hour trade down last year, and now were considering going [I]up?[/I][/quote]

Another trade down would be nice

[quote][*]No one in the Redskins organization has ever tried to squash these rumors at all. All Snyder has done is thrown gasoline on the fire. He might just be this short-sighted, or he might be wise enough to leverage his position. Prior evidence suggests he's probably just shortsighted.[/quote]

What's the point of squashing them?

[quote][*]We've avoided adding pretty much any help in free agency after the Dockery signing, despite unexpectedly cutting Jason Taylor since then.[/quote]

Not counting Haynesworth, or even Robert Thomas (to a lesser extent)? Or the guys we brought back?

[quote][*]We're frank enough to tell Sanchez where he stands with us, but we're okay going "behind" Campbell's back (I say "behind" because if it is a smokescreen, Campbell's in on it).[/quote]

Campbell's our guy!!...until he's not

[quote][*]Brian Orakpo might be a simultaneous smokescreen, or a last ditch attempt to divert attention from Sanchez.[/quote]

The one guy VC has been most open about is Orakpo, don't know if that's a good thing,k since the start of this whole draft stuff back in January

[quote][*]We can't even outbid other teams who need Sanchez' services far more than we do.[/LIST][/quote]

We can...but probably shouldn't

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

[quote=GMScud;548243]Promising Sanchez the keys to the car from day one would basically cancel out Campbell. His trade value would plummet, and he'd likely walk after '09. Not to mention what it would do to the locker room. Snyder was just going status quo. With Campbell on the team, Sanchez would have to compete for the job. That's a no brainer. That doesn't mean Campbell couldn't be traded after drafting Sanchez. At least we're not tipping our hand in that regard. Currently, telling him anything other than what we are would be foolish. At this point I'd say it's possible (however unlikely), that we're running a good bluff.[/quote]If that's true, this is the first time in the month of April that Snyder stayed the status quo.

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

[quote=GTripp0012;548247]If that's true, this is the first time in the month of April that Snyder stayed the status quo.[/quote]

Not saying it will stay that way come Saturday, but for now, I'd say that's what we're doing with this particular situation. If I had to guess anyway.

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

[quote=SmootSmack;548246]What's the point of squashing them?[/quote]Well, what if we do want him, but at 13. And it gets to pick 11 or 12, and the Jets go up to get him because, even though there's no one between 11 and 17 that need a QB, they think we'll actually do it.

That's a successful smokescreen...but if they wanted him enough to grab him at 13, which seems to be the picture that Snyder is painting, cut the beast off at the head, and up your chance of getting him at your slot.

General draft logic says the Skins would only be acting this way if they really didn't care about Sanchez. But logic in general suggests that Jason Campbell is on the verge of something great, so I'm not sure any reasoning should be applied to this situation.

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

The only thing that really appears to be clear from this process is that the 5 year hiatus of Snyder intervention appears to be over for good. Even Joe Gibbs' mark on this team can't last forever.

Again, that's not a death sentence. But it is the very thing that got us in deep crap in the early part of the decade.

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

Wow, very lonely here in Mark Sanchez's corner.

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

[quote=GTripp0012;548251]The only thing that really appears to be clear from this process is that the 5 year hiatus of Snyder intervention appears to be over for good. Even Joe Gibbs' mark on this team can't last forever.

Again, that's not a death sentence. But it is the very thing that got us in deep crap in the early part of the decade.[/quote]

He has the same level of involvement that he had the past five years. He has always been part of the process (along with Cerrato and Gibbs/Zorn) in the final weeks leading up to the draft. The only difference between him and other owners is that not all other owners will attend the dinner with the "client" Instead they'll meet him the next day in their office.

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;548252]Wow, very lonely here in Mark Sanchez's corner.[/quote]

Even lonelier in Beanie Wells' corner (seriously, I want to draft a running back...not at 13 though. Give me Rashad Jennings in the 5th)

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

[quote=SmootSmack;548254]He has the same level of involvement that he had the past five years. He has always been part of the process (along with Cerrato and Gibbs/Zorn) in the final weeks leading up to the draft. The only difference between him and other owners is that not all other owners will attend the dinner with the "client" Instead they'll meet him the next day in their office.[/quote]Okay, but, the clear difference to me at least, is that being intricately involved in all processes while deferring to the football opinion of his coaches was a strong way to lead. I realize he was always around Gibbs, and Gibbs speaks highly of him. However, Zorn's opinion isn't carrying the same weight about Redskins Park. And without Gibbs there, it sure looks like Cerrato is having to answer to Snyder, and not Zorn, regarding scheme fits and stuff.

I mean, Blache never even really got a word in on Jason Taylor prior to the deal. I understand that was Cerrato's brainchild, but Cutler was CLEARLY Snyder, and I'm in agreement with you, if it was Cerrato's call, it's a no on Sanchez. I'm just not sure at the end of the day, it's not Cerrato making the case to Snyder (clear intervention), instead of Zorn making the case to Cerrato (non intervention).

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

[quote=GTripp0012;548256]Okay, but, the clear difference to me at least, is that being intricately involved in all processes while deferring to the football opinion of his coaches was a strong way to lead. I realize he was always around Gibbs, and Gibbs speaks highly of him. However, Zorn's opinion isn't carrying the same weight about Redskins part. And without Gibbs there, it sure looks like Cerrato is having to answer to Snyder, and not Zorn, regarding scheme fits and stuff.

I mean, Blache never even really got a word in on Jason Taylor prior to the deal. I understand that was Cerrato's brainchild, but Cutler was CLEARLY Snyder, and I'm in agreement with you, if it was Cerrato's call, it's a no on Sanchez. I'm just not sure at the end of the day, it's not Cerrato making the case to Snyder (clear intervention), instead of Zorn making the case to Cerrato (non intervention).[/quote]

From all I've gathered, Zorn is a lot more involved than I would have thought and Cerrato a lot less involved. And I think as far as those three are concerned, Blache got what he wanted with Haynesworth so they don't need his input as much right now (not until draft day).

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

I'll take A Smith, because as much as I like Rey and Orapko the defense wasn't the real problem, and we did add Albert..

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

It occurred to me this morning, (probably way after everyone else), that the whole intent of the Cutler, and even moreso Sanchez, bluffs is to force Denver to use its early pick on Sanchez. This makes alot of sense to me, because clearly Denver picking right before us, and needing DE's, we want to impact their thinking and strategy as much as possible. Certainly, if Denver wants Sanchez, they would now believe that they have to get him no later than at their 12 spot.

Well that was my morning revelation. Wishful thinking sure leads to creative theories!

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

man, i hope all the talk is that, a smokescreen. we have at least 2 other major needs above the qback position

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

[quote=SmootSmack;548258]From all I've gathered, Zorn is a lot more involved than I would have thought and Cerrato a lot less involved. And I think as far as those three are concerned, Blache got what he wanted with Haynesworth so they don't need his input as much right now (not until draft day).[/quote]

And Hall got re-signed, something Blache really wanted too, right?

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

[quote=dmek25;548280]man, i hope all the talk is that, a smokescreen. we have at least 2 other major needs above the qback position[/quote]
Agreed, and 2 is being optimistic!

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;548277]It occurred to me this morning, (probably way after everyone else), that the whole intent of the Cutler, and even moreso Sanchez, bluffs is to force Denver to use its early pick on Sanchez. This makes alot of sense to me, because clearly Denver picking right before us, and needing DE's, we want to impact their thinking and strategy as much as possible. Certainly, if Denver wants Sanchez, they would now believe that they have to get him no later than at their 12 spot.

Well that was my morning revelation. Wishful thinking sure leads to creative theories![/quote]

Forcing a Jackson or Maualagua down to us! Brilliant, I love it!!

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

[quote=SmootSmack;548307]Forcing a Jackson or Maualagua down to us! Brilliant, I love it!![/quote]This is my dream scenario, especially if the OTs are gone.

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

Finally something in writing about us looking to trade DOWN from 13...
[quote=John Clayton's Blog]Dialing D.C.: The Washington Redskins, who own the 13th overall selection in the draft, are getting calls to trade down a few spots. They would consider doing that if USC quarterback Mark Sanchez is gone. What the Redskins think is some teams might be willing to get to the 13th pick in order to get Kansas State QB Josh Freeman. The Redskins might have a chance to get Sanchez if he falls to Jacksonville's pick at No. 8. [url=http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4087113&name=clayton_john&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fespn%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d4087113%26name%3dclayton_john]Heap factor in Boldin talks? - ESPN[/url][/quote]

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

[quote=Paintrain;548313]Finally something in writing about us looking to trade DOWN from 13...[/quote]

I think the bigger story is teams finally reaching out to us, we've been trying to trade down for a while now

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

[quote=GTripp0012;548153]That's the same build as 6'4" 265 Carter.[/quote]

Yeah I realize that. Not comparing the two but I don't think Carter is really that good.

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

If Sanchez were there i'd draft him, front office has no confidence in JC. If not my next pick would be Oher. if Oher wasn't available then I would draft Maualuga. Orakpo injury issues makes me wary of him.

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;548252]Wow, very lonely here in Mark Sanchez's corner.[/quote]

How could you man ;)

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

[quote=Paintrain;548313]Finally something in writing about us looking to trade DOWN from 13...[/quote]

The Freeman thing makes sense. Denver also might want to jump San Diego to get Tyson Jackson if they take someone other than Jackson at #12.

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

GTripp0012:

Remember, Vinnie told us that Heyer was a dominant and unbeatable tackle if he could just remember to bend his knees all the time. :yeahright:

Ergo, the Skins only need a center who can tell the RG to tell Heyer to bend his f***ing knees every play. I don't think you need to spend a first round pick to solve that problem... :doh:

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

[quote=The Goat;548328]How could you man ;)[/quote]

Don't judge me. It's not everyday a QB with the same first name as you comes along. Or is it? I dunno. Actually can I change my vote for Oherakopo?

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

Is it just me or does Vinny looked jacked out of his mind? Every picture I see of him his eyes look lit up like a Christmas Tree.

Re: Please Draft ??? at #13
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;548359]Is it just me or does Vinny looked jacked out of his mind? Every picture I see of him his eyes look lit up like a Christmas Tree.[/quote]

Maybe he's hanging out with the "Deadliest Catch" crew and drinking lots of RedBull.