Snopes
 

I used to use Snopes to confirm everything, but they dropped the ball on this one big time. They posted fake documentation, and then pulled it down. They did the same with a couple of disreputable quotes, and misrepresented the counter argument. Seeing how Snopes has been dealing with the birth certificate issue and jumping the gun on unsubstantiated claims has led me to believe that they have political bias, and I don't use them any more.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;576575]I think it's because they really don't understand what patriotism is all about, and so they take the smallest of trivialities and blow them up into the biggest issues. Because, if the President bows to anyone, he must hate America. No wonder these people idolized Bush -- he walked around like the toughest shit on the block, and these people just ate it up.[/quote]

This is just silly.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;576079]I don't pay attention to current events, so I have no idea what Obama's done -- good or bad. Sorry, I can't contribute to this thread.[/quote]

Is this serious, or are you just joking around?

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=BringBackJoeT;576502]On this note, what would the expectation be for a Catholic president meeting with the Pope? From a starting point, such a meeting would be a meeting of two heads of state (U.S. and Vatican). But, I suppose theoretically, there would be a level of meaning for that particular U.S. president that would transcend politics, and isn't it common for Catholics meeting the Pope to make a sort of gesture? (Kneeling maybe? I honestly don't know.) If it is common for a Catholic to do such a thing, and a president happened to be Catholic and did it, but claimed that it was in his/her "status" as a Catholic, how would people come down on that?[/quote]

You just framed the argument that was used by the anti-Kennedy crowd in the 60's. People were hesitant about electing a Catholic for this very reason.

see Youtube, video (I can't post links): zP2C0dCUD3A

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;576607]Is this serious, or are you just joking around?[/quote]

No, I'm serious.

I used to read the news every morning, until I realized it basically ruined my day. As you can probably tell from my posts, I'm easily irritated when it comes to this kind of stuff. I discovered that I can't read the news without getting upset, so I just stopped. I also stopped voting and just stopped caring in general. It just seems like we're too far gone to get back on track -- not as a country, but as a race. Pretty cynical, I know. Just one of my many flaws. I'll probably lose all credibility with this statement, but I doubt I had much left with the other posters anyways.

All of this is not to say that I don't care to argue principle, I just don't know enough about what's going on to apply it to the issues.

Anyways, imagine a guy like me, who's totally ignorant about what's happening, to come here and see people arguing about the President bowing to another human being. Seems pretty ridiculous to me, and also validates my attitude.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;576451]Ha! What about when a flag is lowered to half-mast for the passing of a President? Just one of many examples of contradiction within our policies. Good job proving your point.[/quote]

Lowering the flag in mourning isn't the same as dipping it.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;576618]No, I'm serious.

I used to read the news every morning, until I realized it basically ruined my day. As you can probably tell from my posts, I'm easily irritated when it comes to this kind of stuff. I discovered that I can't read the news without getting upset, so I just stopped. I also stopped voting and just stopped caring in general. It just seems like we're too far gone to get back on track -- not as a country, but as a race. Pretty cynical, I know. Just one of my many flaws. I'll probably lose all credibility with this statement, but I doubt I had much left with the other posters anyways.

All of this is not to say that I don't care to argue principle, I just don't know enough about what's going on to apply it to the issues.

Anyways, imagine a guy like me, who's totally ignorant about what's happening, to come here and see people arguing about the President bowing to another human being. Seems pretty ridiculous to me, and also validates my attitude.[/quote]
What do you mean whenyou say not as a country , but as a race.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;576482]As far as UCMJ or punishment for a bow, I've never heard that. However the State Department Office of Protocol and Miss Manners know that the President and any U.S. citizen NEVER bow before a monarch or king.

You can say what you want, but in the Middle East the gesture is seen as making the U.S. sub-servient.[/quote]

My warrant officer would've had my ass if I had bowed in the way the Japanese did.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;576496]From what I understand it really depends on the culture. Bowing in many cultures is a sign or respect or even that of an apology. In some cultures yes it is a sign of subservience. The key is to know your audience.

On a related note, [B]was W out of line when he held hands and touched cheeks with a Saudi prince?[/[/B]QUOTE]

I don't think it was a breach of protocol but it made me want to vomit all the same.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

What about when Jimmy Carter greeted Queen Elizabeth by kissing her...on the lips

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=12thMan;576531]What? For someone in the military?? I was in the military too. Loved my country then, love it now. And I still disagree with that point of view. Respectfully.

[B]Why is it that some on the right feel as though they have a monoply on patriotism[/B]?[/quote]

Who made this arguement? To say someone is ignorant of protocol isn't saying they're unpatriotic. Unless someone has said it to you then what is your motivation if not to dismiss an arguement?

Being in the mititary doesn't automatically make you more patriotic than another. I've not made that arguement. Perhaps you read into that on your own or maybe that is just a tactic?

I bring up the military because that's where I learned not to bow to foreigners, especially when you're a representative of the U.S. I don't expect everyone to know this because it's not taught. They taught me in grammar school to bring the flag in when it rains too. This seems to be lost on a lot of people these days.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;576634]What about when Jimmy Carter greeted Queen Elizabeth by kissing her...on the lips[/quote]

If anything that would be looked as breaking their customs and kind of disgracing her.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=saden1;576449]Well, when you have time please let us know where it says what you claim in the Military Code of Conduct. And just to be clear it says nothing of that sort whatsoever.

And yes, the Flag is more important than the president...this is very obvious to even [B]someone like me who believes flag burning in protest is permissible[/B].[/quote]

No, not you Saden.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;576634]What about when Jimmy Carter greeted Queen Elizabeth by kissing her...on the lips[/quote]

I was too young to remember that. Was that with or without tounge?

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

In an attempt to bring this thread back on topic, I'd like to mention something good that Obama has done.

He did get those two women released from N.Korea. Whether their dumb asses should've been there to begin with I'll leave to someone else. Seriously, why were they up there? And those two on the border of Iran, what they hell where they thinking? There are no KOA campgrounds on the Iranian border, right? Senator Webb also got that twit out of Burma too. Who the hell goes to Burma? This is a legitimate function of the executive office.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;576648]In an attempt to bring this thread back on topic, I'd like to mention something good that Obama has done.

He did get those two women released from N.Korea. Whether their dumb asses should've been there to begin with I'll leave to someone else. Seriously, why were they up there? And those two on the border of Iran, what they hell where they thinking? There are no KOA campgrounds on the Iranian border, right? Senator Webb also got that twit out of Burma too. Who the hell goes to Burma? This is a legitimate function of the executive office.[/quote]

I thought Bill got those two people out of N Korea.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=firstdown;576627]What do you mean whenyou say not as a country , but as a race.[/quote]

The Human Race.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=firstdown;576650]I thought Bill got those two people out of N Korea.[/quote]

Bubba was the face of it. I think it was the Obama administration that set it up and gave it the go ahead. I could be wrong but that's my opinion.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;576653]Bubba was the face of it. I think it was the Obama administration that set it up and gave it the go ahead. I could be wrong but that's my opinion.[/quote]
I thought it was Gore and Bill who worked on getting them free but as you I could be wrong. I would think with all the negative stuff going on right now with Obama if he could lay claim to getting them free then he would have.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=jsarno;576526]


Read this:
[URL="http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp"]snopes.com: Is Barack Obama a natural-born citizen of the U.S.?[/URL]

Hey, I can understand not wanting him to be american, therefore not eligible for president, but he was born in Hawaii...read that entire article, it will explain it. I thought we went over this like a year ago?
.[/quote]



until i see his birth certificate i won't believe it.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=wolfeskins;576748]until i see his birth certificate i won't believe it.[/quote]

You do know his birth certificate is safe in the state of Hawaii? Verified by state officials, the very hosipital where he was born, including the Republican Governor. It's been verified - it's there. Really.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

I have not followed this Birth Certificate stuff so I guessing one has never been produced.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=12thMan;576749]You do know his birth certificate is safe in the state of Hawaii? Verified by state officials, the very hosipital where he was born, including the Republican Governor. It's been verified - it's there. Really.[/quote]


ooohhh, so it must be true then.:yeahright

let me see it. let the american people see it. there are lots and lots of people who believe obama was not born in america.

and why would it be safe in hawaii? i was born in frederick md,but my birth certificate is in my upstairs closet, here in va.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=firstdown;576753]I have not followed this Birth Certificate stuff so I guessing one has never been produced.[/quote]

not that i'm aware of.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=wolfeskins;576754]ooohhh, so it must be true then.:yeahright

let me see it. let the american people see it. there are lots and lots of people who believe obama was not born in america.

and why would it be safe in hawaii? i was born in frederick md,but my birth certificate is in my upstairs closet, here in va.[/quote]As I learned when I first went to get a driver's license, Washington DC doesn't send you an official copy of your birth certificate unless you request it. Maybe 12th just means the official copy is still in HI.

Also, lots and lots of people believe a lot of stupid stuff, that doesn't make it true. I know you would agree to that.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

OK, so no one has seen his BC and they are unwilling to produce one. So now I'm up to speed or am I missing something?

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

What's this?

[url=http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/06/13/bobirthcertificate.jpg]Photo[/url]

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;576761]What's this?

[URL="http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/06/13/bobirthcertificate.jpg"]Photo[/URL][/quote]

Yea, but why is the certificate number blacked out. They are hiding something. If you look at the fine print on the bottom it says this will serve as proff in court but this is not a court. I demand a recount. By the way SS anybody (except me) with computers now days can make one of those things up.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;576761]What's this?

[URL="http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/06/13/bobirthcertificate.jpg"]Photo[/URL][/quote]

Couldn't be?

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=firstdown;576763]Yea, but why is the certificate number blacked out. They are hiding something. If you look at the fine print on the bottom it says this will serve as proff in court but this is not a court. I demand a recount. By the way SS anybody (except me) with computers now days can make one of those things up.[/quote]

See where my mind is now that I work from home?

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=firstdown;576763]Yea, but why is the certificate number blacked out. They are hiding something. If you look at the fine print on the bottom it says this will serve as proff in court but this is not a court. I demand a recount. By the way SS anybody (except me) with computers now days can make one of those things up.[/quote]

Fine. I give up. Look, Obama has done some good things (already outlined) and he's broken promises (outlined as well), but that's to be expected. Politicians always make promises they can't keep when campaigning. Whether it's not kept through their own fault or reasons beyond their control, campaign promises are impossible to keep 100% of the time.

But this whole Obama hates America because there is allegedly no proof he was born in the United States is among the dumbest of the litany of dumb political posts here. That a Redskins fan would think that makes me both embarrassed to be a Redskins fan and a registered Republican.

I blame only myself for even participating in such a stupid discussion

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;576767]Fine. I give up. Look, Obama has done some good things (already outlined) and he's broken promises (outlined as well), but that's to be expected. Politicians always make promises they can't keep when campaigning. Whether it's not kept through their own fault or reasons beyond their control, campaign promises are impossible to keep 100% of the time.

[B]But this whole Obama hates America because there is allegedly no proof he was born in the United States is among the dumbest of the litany of dumb political posts here. That a Redskins fan would think that makes me both embarrassed to be a Redskins fan and a registered Republican.[/B]
I blame only myself for even participating in such a stupid discussion[/quote]

I have been reading this stuff as it was posted and thinking to myself "oh dear God, are they really be serious about this?"

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;576780]I have been reading this stuff as it was posted and thinking to myself "oh dear God, are they really be serious about this?"[/quote]

It's mind-numbingly stupid

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

It seems that there's an organized effort by the Republicans to make Obama look bad in these town hall meetings. Honestly, I got an e-mail from a conservative friend where a doctor attacked Obama's health proposal. We complain about getting big bills from doctors, then we claim that they must know more than any of the rest of us on what Obama's health plan really means. What I'm thinking is it means less money for the doctors (and rightly so), and that's the real reason they don't like it.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;576767]Fine. I give up. Look, Obama has done some good things (already outlined) and he's broken promises (outlined as well), but that's to be expected. Politicians always make promises they can't keep when campaigning. Whether it's not kept through their own fault or reasons beyond their control, campaign promises are impossible to keep 100% of the time.

[B][U]But this whole Obama hates America because there is allegedly no proof he was born in the United States is among the dumbest of the litany of dumb political posts here. That a Redskins fan would think that makes me both embarrassed to be a Redskins fan and a registered Republican.[/U][/B]

I blame only myself for even participating in such a stupid discussion[/quote]

he dislikes america because of the people who influenced him as a child and growing to be an adult. i don't think his resoning for his hatred is based soley on him not being born here.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;576782]It's mind-numbingly stupid[/quote]

whats mind numbingly stupid is to think that rev. wright and the others that were in obamas life had no influence on how he views america. young men are influenced by who they associate with, especially a preacher(the longer, the more influential)

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=JLee9718;576798]It seems that there's an organized effort by the Republicans to make Obama look bad in these town hall meetings. Honestly, I got an e-mail from a conservative friend where a doctor attacked Obama's health proposal. We complain about getting big bills from doctors, then we claim that they must know more than any of the rest of us on what Obama's health plan really means. What I'm thinking is it means less money for the doctors (and rightly so), and that's the real reason they don't like it.[/quote]

I think that's kind of a narrow view of looking at it...but the faults of the health care plan have been repeated over and over again already

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;576810]I think that's kind of a narrow view of looking at it...[B]but the faults of the health care plan have been repeated over and over again already[/B][/quote]

Really? We should probably start a thread to discuss them!!!

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=wolfeskins;576805]whats mind numbingly stupid is to think that rev. wright and the others that were in obamas life had no influence on how he views america. young men are influenced by who they associate with, especially a preacher(the longer, the more influential)[/quote]

Right.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

I'm a registered Republican, and I'm not a big fan of Obama or his policies. But to say he hates America is silly. Just because Rev. Wright hates America doesn't mean Obama does too. I was raised Roman Catholic and went to Catholic school from K-12th grade. Does that mean I share all of their views? Not even close. They taught me accountability, the importance of family and community, and being a man for others, but I'm not walking around beating a bible.

I mean, if he hates America, why would he go so far as to run for elected office, help so many poor Americans in the Chicago area, and ascend all the way to the highest elected office in this country? To secretly run the USA into the ground under the cover of trying to improve things? I love me a conspiracy, but that's just a retarded contension.