Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;578854]We will get a GREAT test this wk vs the pats!!![/quote]

We'll see. Cause you know NE is going to test our defense.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=skinsfan69;578862]We'll see. Cause you know NE is going to test our defense.[/quote]

Starters will get at least a half, according to Zorn, but I'm curious to see who are the first guys off the bench

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

campbell [B]does[/B] need to pick up his play, plain and simple. some people on here like to make excuses for him, the o-line was not perfect, the play calling was not perfect, the receivers routs were not perfect, the weather was not perfect and on and on. bottom line is things are not gonna be perfect, including campbell's play, but he does need to show some improvement. i know he hasn't played much and it's only preseason but he needs to step it up.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=GMScud;578838]Ok, then if rain was the issue, why take deep shots? Why not intermediate routs to keep the chains moving? We already know JC has the arm.[/quote]

I'm guessing the goal was more to evaluate the deep passing game than to simply move the chains. That's what happens in the preseason, the play calling is more about evaluating situational stuff.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

If Zorn had questions about Campbell he would've put him out on the field and answered them. It was great to see other people step up. It was also great to see Zorn stick to his game plan and accept the criticism and second guessing. He stuck with that running game last night, when he has to know all the fans and media wants to see him open it up. I haven't been a Zorn fan, but right now I'm thinking he's either very incompetent or he might actually have something cooking.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=shack;578890]If Zorn had questions about Campbell he would've put him out on the field and answered them. It was great to see other people step up. It was also great to see Zorn stick to his game plan and accept the criticism and second guessing. He stuck with that running game last night, when he has to know all the fans and media wants to see him open it up. I haven't been a Zorn fan, but right now I'm thinking he's either very incompetent or he might actually have something cooking.[/quote]

Running is the only thing we can do with any success. We need to get our passing game rolling so every team we play doesn't stack eight in the box.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Mattyk72;578874]I'm guessing the goal was more to evaluate the deep passing game than to simply move the chains. That's what happens in the preseason, the play calling is more about evaluating situational stuff.[/quote]

Yes. Zorn wanted to see how it looked in a game and I imagine he knows it needs a little work now. This is the best time to find out.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Campbell proved to me last night why we don't throw the deep ball. If he would have thrown that first ball to the left (which is how it should be done) Kelly could have run under the ball then its all on him. Same thing with the second pass but to the right. If you think about it we only had one drive and if we did not have a fake punt (which we would not have done in a real game form there) we had three 3 and outs. I hope JC snaps out of this but so far he has pretty much sucked. I would like to see Collins get the start next week and see what he can do with the starters. If not that leave JC in until he can score a TD.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=firstdown;578908]Campbell proved to me last night why we don't throw the deep ball. If he would have thrown that first ball to the left (which is how it should be done) Kelly could have run under the ball then its all on him. Same thing with the second pass but to the right. If you think about it we only had one drive and if we did not have a fake punt (which we would not have done in a real game form there) we had three 3 and outs. I hope JC snaps out of this but so far he has pretty much sucked. I would like to see Collins get the start next week and see what he can do with the starters. [B]If not that leave JC in until he can score a TD.[/quote][/B]


The game is only 60 min. :)
just messing around guys. but yeah JC needs reps as well as the whole 1st string O.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=wolfeskins;578871]campbell [B]does[/B] need to pick up his play, plain and simple. some people on here like to make excuses for him, the o-line was not perfect, the play calling was not perfect, the receivers routs were not perfect, the weather was not perfect and on and on. bottom line is things are not gonna be perfect, including campbell's play, but he does need to show some improvement. i know he hasn't played much and it's only preseason but he needs to step it up.[/quote]

Exactly, Im a JC supporter, but the time is now. The expectations everyone talked about in the offseason is here. I expect a much better game next week from JC period.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=wolfeskins;578871]campbell [B]does[/B] need to pick up his play, plain and simple. some people on here like to make excuses for him, the o-line was not perfect, the play calling was not perfect, the receivers routs were not perfect, the weather was not perfect and on and on. bottom line is things are not gonna be perfect, including campbell's play, but he does need to show some improvement. i know he hasn't played much and it's only preseason but he needs to step it up.[/quote]

Its not just on here excuses are being made. How long can Zorn and Campbell keep it up with the excuses. Until the team has more discipiline and Zorns steps up to the plate and takes the reins, what are you really going to expect.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

I only care about winning. If Campbell can take care of the ball and manage the offense well enough for us to win then I'm fine with him as our QB. If not, he needs to go.

I have no illusions about his capabilities. Best case, he can probably play at the level Trent Dilfer did with the Ravens when they rode their defense to a Super Bowl win. Like that team, we'll need to win with our defense.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;578920]I only care about winning. If Campbell can take care of the ball and manage the offense well enough for us to win then I'm fine with him as our QB. If not, he needs to go.

I have no illusions about his capabilities. Best case, he can probably play at the level Trent Dilfer did with the Ravens when they rode their defense to a Super Bowl win. Like that team, we'll need to win with our defense.[/quote]

Couldn't agree more. I'm emotionally indifferent to whoever lines up over center. I just want that person to be successful, woever they are, and agree that JC could do enough (or avoid enough mistakes) to win the Super Bowl assuming we have a dominant defense, running game and pass protection. I have serious doubts he can do much more and haven't seen anything from him to make me think he could actually "carry" the team on his back if it became necessary. But then again, we all know what happened to Dilfer after he won the Super Bowl. We've also seen guys like Brian Griese throw 19TDs against 4 INTs only to become a career back-up. There are only 10-15 QBs who are likely to be starters their entire careers. You have to be special to have that kind of job security.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Chico23231;578780]Good point, the strong suit of the offense is the run blocking and Portis getting consistent positive yards...that was reassuring.

I did like the attempts down the field, that first one Kelly had beat coverage, JC waited a little late to let it go...next week will be crucial to see progress in the offense. We will get a chance to see if offense can get some rhythm. [B]3 points for the starting offense in two preseason games does not show the kinda growth I expect at this point.[/B][/quote]

I'm not thrilled with the output by the first team offense thus far either, but the reality is, it has only been four-five series against two of the best defenses in the league (one of them THE best). In a regular season game against these teams, I wouldn't expect to score on every drive. I'd expect some three and outs, a decent drive here and there, and not a lot of points. That is pretty much what has happened.

I think a lot of people are jumping the gun here. Let's see what happens in week 1 and then can get excited about it.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Chico23231;578780]

I did like the attempts down the field, that first one Kelly had beat coverage, JC waited a little late to let it go...next week will be crucial to see progress in the offense. We will get a chance to see if offense can get some rhythm. 3 points for the starting offense in two preseason games does not show the kinda growth I expect at this point.[/quote]
He threw it on his third hitch step, but short because he miscalculated Kelly's speed.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=44Deezel;578935]Couldn't agree more. I'm emotionally indifferent to whoever lines up over center. I just want that person to be successful, woever they are, and agree that JC could do enough (or avoid enough mistakes) to win the Super Bowl assuming we have a dominant defense, running game and pass protection. I have serious doubts he can do much more and haven't seen anything from him to make me think he could actually "carry" the team on his back if it became necessary. But then again, we all know what happened to Dilfer after he won the Super Bowl. We've also seen guys like Brian Griese throw 19TDs against 4 INTs only to become a career back-up. There are only 10-15 QBs who are likely to be starters their entire careers. You have to be special to have that kind of job security.[/quote]

Great post. Of course, if JC could turn it on like Rypien did in 91, say, that wouldn't hurt either, with this D ;).

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

How many regular season games would you give Campbell to show he deserves to be the starter?

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=insideman;578915]Its not just on here excuses are being made. How long can Zorn and Campbell keep it up with the excuses. Until the team has more discipiline and Zorns steps up to the plate and takes the reins, what are you really going to expect.[/quote]

Considering last season and what we have seen so far its pretty obvious that the Skins woud be incredibly lucky to have JC turn out like Dilfer. I dont think he will even get to that level. I think Zorn will stick with JC no matter what and it likely will cost him his job.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

JC is already better than Dilfer.

Let's look at Qb rating, shall we? Dilfer had a career rating around 70. Only twice in his career did he have years with ratings above 80. In the Super Bowl season of 2000, his rating was 76.6.

JC has a career qb rating of 80. Last year JC had a rating of 84. JC's worst rating was 76, the same as Dilfer's Super Bowl year rating.

So, as we see, in his worst year JC was better than Dilfer was on average for his entire career. JC's worst year coincides in terms of ratings with Dilfer's Super Bowl year.

Let's get some real perspective on JC, please.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Dilfer sucked, but had the stifling D. We do not have a stifling D.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

I keep hearing people say all we need for Jason Campbell to do is manage the game. Then they go on to point to the Ravens stellar Super Bowl defensive unit as evidence that you can win championships in the NFL with a mediocre quarterback and a top notch defense. While that may be true, it's the exception and not the rule in the NFL.

I think that logic is flawed on two fronts. First, that Raven's defensive unit could arguably go down as the most dominate defensive unit of all time. Possibly. We're talking a few Hall of Famers on that team too. In no way does the Redskins current defensive unit resemble that Ravens Super Bowl team.

Secondly, isn't that what the Redskins were doing last year anyway. Get a lead and sit on it? It's not that Jason can't manage a game, the offense just became too predictable down the stretch. I don't care how well you manage a game in the NFL, you still need more points than the other team. The Ravens Super Bowl defensive unit could actually score touchdowns when the offense didn't. If the Redskins can't put up more than 21 points per game this year, I don't care how much Campbell has improved we won't win that many games.

The two starting quarterbacks in last year's Super Bowl, had more fumbles and lost fumbles than Jason Campbell. Campbell had a total of 7 fumbles last season and lost only one. Roughly half the number he had the previous year. Big Ben had 14 fumbles last season and lost seven. Kurt Warner had 11 fumbles and lost seven. I think it's worth noting that Campbell only had six interceptions as well. Compared to Warner and Big Ben, Campbell is taking care of the ball.

So it's not just about managing the game, but managing the momentum of the game. Campbell needs to take more risks with the ball and let the chips fall where they may. Now whether that's a coaching decision or a Jason Campbell decision, I don't know. But we will soon find out.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Ah, what would we do in DC without a QB controversy?

JC has to win games. I know that's trite and obvious, but there you have it. However he manages to do that, fine. If it's Dilfer-like and we win, great. If it's more gunslinger, also great. Most likely it's between the two. Taking risks is all well and good, but TOs kill ya. But not taking shots kills ya too. What a world.

Here's my feeling about any controversy: Collins is a passable backup, but he does not have the arm to win for us. I don't know if Zorn "Loves JC"--he's stuck with him, IMO. So trying to keep his spirits up, shield him in the press, whatever. I assume that behind closed doors he is doing whatever he can to get JC better. It's really his only hope: Collins can come in for a few wins at best, but that's it. It's JC or bust this year.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Counter-Tre;578978]How many regular season games would you give Campbell to show he deserves to be the starter?[/quote]

At this rate 2 or 3. I think thats enough games for him to show something and yet still early enough to salvage the season.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

I'm not really convinced that that QB rating is the absolute best way to measure QB's.

that said, dilfer sucked. I mean, come on.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=That Guy;578993]I'm not really convinced that that QB rating is the absolute best way to measure QB's.

that said, dilfer sucked. I mean, come on.[/quote]

Fair enough. I was trying to keep the post relatively short so I used ratings rather than trotting out tons of different stats.

You summarized the point well.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=That Guy;578993]I'm not really convinced that that QB rating is the absolute best way to measure QB's.

that said, [B]dilfer sucked. I mean, come on.[/quote][/B]
[B] I beg to DILFER...[/B] He would have won a superbowl with Tampa if he stayed there. He was a solid game manager, ala Joe Theismann.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Redskin Jim;578997][/b]
[B]I beg to DILFER...[/B] He would have won a superbowl with Tampa if he stayed there. He was a solid game manager, ala Joe Theismann.[/quote]
Dilfer was a much better qb than our own Brad Johnson. All things considerd, He won the superbowl under less favorable circumstances offensively than Doug Williams, or Joe Theismann. LOOK IT UP.
All things considered, with unproven wide recievers and o line, I do see the Redskins situation more like the Ravens of 2000 than previous Redskin championship teams..

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

and this is a surprise? keep making excuses for a lame duck qb that will continue to do nothing for this franchise. jc is on a very short leash to say the very least. he will be on the bench before the seasons end.

on to the bright side chase looked well in his debut. could very well unseat colt maybe todd before its all said and done

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=DieHardSkinsFan777;579000][B]and this is a surprise?[/B] keep making excuses for a lame duck qb that will continue to do nothing for this franchise. jc is on a very short leash to say the very least. he will be on the bench before the seasons end.

on to the bright side chase looked well in his debut. could very well unseat colt maybe todd before its all said and done[/quote]
I agree with you that it is NO surprise that Campbell has yet again left the faithfull wanting more...
I am NO Campbell appologist, and was a supporter of bringing in Cutler, but not Sanchez... I want the best oppertunity for this Redskin team to be successful, and these days its with Soup...

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;578991]At this rate 2 or 3. I think thats enough games for him to show something and yet still early enough to salvage the season.[/quote] Exactly my thoughts. I was thinking three games. I do not want to spend another entire season hoping things will click. It's make or break time.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Thiesmann , was a MUCH better qb than Dilfer . JT put up bigtime numbers when we had talent , in 1983 we had scored the most pionts in NFL history .

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Counter-Tre;578978]How many regular season games would you give Campbell to show he deserves to be the starter?[/quote]

I would say at least 10. It depends on our record. I'm not being a JC apologist here. It's just that we don't have much choice.

Collins: experienced but with a noodle arm and not the future
Colt/Chase: so inexperienced that they likely will be eaten alive by NFC East defenses

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Dilfer played the way he needed to play to win in the situation he was in. basically dont turn the ball over and hand the ball to the RB. Let the defense get you the ball and get any points when you win the field position battle.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Counter-Tre;579011]Exactly my thoughts. I was thinking three games. I do not want to spend another entire season hoping things will click. It's make or break time.[/quote]

So after 3 games last season would you have pulled him out? I doubt it.

Obviously if our offense struggles against Detroit, KC, and StLouis then you will pull him.

But lets assume that the Skins are a minimum of 5 and 2 at the bye week. Then how do you decide to pull him if he struggles.

The bottom line for me is this season is tied to JC, and even if he fails you don't pull him out until we are eliminated from playoff contention.

Let me ask, suppose we are winning games early, but still averaging 18-21 points per game against the weak part of our schedule, would you pull him out even though we are still in contention for the division and playoffs?

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;579016]Dilfer played the way he needed to play to win in the situation he was in. basically dont turn the ball over and hand the ball to the RB. Let the defense get you the ball and get any points when you win the field position battle.[/quote]

But that's the thing, Jason actually doesn't turn the ball over very much. And there's no doubt he hands the ball to Clinton Portis very often. Cambell (sorry I'm rehashing the same argument in the same thread). He had seven fumbles and lost one last year. He only threw six picks last year. I say only because one other quarterback ranked in the top 15 had single digit picks last year, Chad Pennington. Jason had a lower turnover ratio than the majority of his peers.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=insideman;578727]How many more excuses can Zorn and Campbell come with for their poor performances on the field. Why can't Zorn just tell everyone like it is. Zorn, should say "I can't call plays" and Campbell should say "I can't quarter back". I'm starting to feel like others. Maybe we should gone with another QB. Because tonight was not on the offense line, but on Campbell himself.[/quote]

we always have an excuse but I'll hold final judgment for awhile

if someone else on another team plays fine we don't offer praise, but if our guy can't even accomplish half of it, there are excuses

kinda funny eh

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=GTripp0012;578762]I think you're saying that even though it's Week 2 of the Preseason, that we should expect more from the first team offense.

I'm not buying what you're selling. The offensive line played well, but the dress rehearsal isn't until next week, and no one on the first team's job is on the line. So I'm finding it much harder than most to get really irritated about 3/7 DSR against the World Champs. It's such a mediocre, expected result that I just don't care enough to get truly critical of anyone's performance.

But if I did, I'm sure I could find a bunch of things Campbell did well. It's just that it's so completely irrelevant that it's not worth my time. His job isn't on the line as long as his team is winning and yesterday, they won a meaningless game.[/quote]


What matters at the end of the day though is whether we win or not; last night we did and even you'll admit that it's meaningless, though you'll use to your advantage that we won, so Campbell couldn't have been that bad and somebody must've been watching last year's game?

That aside last night's game was nice, but doesn't really mean anything to me either. I'd just rather not HAVE to make the preseason (and every other) excuse EVERY year like out of nowhere we're going to be in the NFC championship game. I'm as excited as anybody but I don't think that it's necessarily too early to have concerns either. The good thing, we have 2 more games to work some of these kinks out and anything could change from now until then. In the NFC East every game counts, we don't win a division a game or two over 500 usually, so come week 1, especially being a division game, we need to be near the top of the peak.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

That one thing with Campbell. He seem a lot of the time to be late getting the ball to our recievers. Yes the line needs to give him time but he must get better or we will never move the ball! I hope this gets better or the fans will be calling for his head!

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Lotus;579015]I would say at least 10. It depends on our record. I'm not being a JC apologist here. It's just that we don't have much choice.

Collins: experienced but with a noodle arm and not the future
Colt/Chase: so inexperienced that they likely will be eaten alive by NFC East defenses[/quote]

Exactly, our roster is set up for Campbell to be a 16 game starter. We simply don't have the players at the backup QB position to replace the starter mid-season. Collins can't play more than a couple of games and it would be crazy to put Brennan or Daniel in the position to win a string of games.

Let's see how it plays out, we'll have our answers in a few short weeks.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=RedskinPete;579044]That one thing with Campbell. He seem a lot of the time to be late getting the ball to our recievers. Yes the line needs to give him time but he must get better or we will never move the ball! I hope this gets better or the fans will be calling for his head![/quote]

My take on JC is that the ball is coming out faster this preseason.