Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=The Goat;583241]Weird. 5 backs is a lot...almost like Vinny expects injuries among that group. It also says Rock is likely a sure thing, which should help out special teams [B]but doesn't do much of anything on offense.[/quote][/B]

He has not done much since his 1st yr in the league on offense so why in the world would you think it would change after 7 yrs? I know Rock has that cute little title...RB, but he is not untilized as a RB. He is used one dimensionally as a KRer for like the last 6 yrs. Even when his moment to shine appeared the team had so much faith in him they picked up the TTB.

I wonder what people would be saying if Thomas got the nod for KR and was not ever again used as a WR. Never put on the field on offense as a WR. Only used as a KR. When someone is put in that situation isn't their job title supposed to be ....KR specialist. Not RB.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;583367]It's going to be like last year at RB:

Portis
Betts
Sellers
Cartwright

Cartwright has done nothing to lose his job and is great at ST (KO returns), the only way another RB makes the team is if they take from another roster spot say WR like Randle-El or Renaldo Wynn. Unfortunately we just don't have the room for such talented RB's in the roster, it really is a shame.

I guess the development of Devin Thomas in KO could also be a sign that they are thinking of replacing the Rock,[B] but I don't know if Thomas is fully trusted just yet for that role.[/quote][/B]

That arguement could also be said of his WR skills. Maybe why they are trying him out at KR until he gets better at WR.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=Schneed10;583364]It's pretty hard for me to take you seriously when you come at me with sentence fragments.

We're clearly not watching the same team, the Redskins have been one of the better punt and kick coverage teams in recent years. That's directly attributable to guys like Rock, James Thrash, and Khary Campbell.

Your opinion on Rock is so far in the minority that it's not even worth debating anymore. Come back to reality a little bit, study up the numbers some, and maybe we can continue the conversation.[/quote]

Dude get your head out your ass!! Your truly idiotic. Please post the numbers sir. I am by far not the minority. One thing I must say though you are a royal prick. Its good to be a Rock lover. Thats all fine and dandy. But do you want to win games or do you want to obsess over Rock. The whole team comes before any player. Especially if that player is not producing.

One dimensional player that is average. 30 years old. Is not an asset at any other position. Like Devin Thomas, Moss, or Betts (or even Thrash when he was here for that matter).

You would rather keep him over one of 3 RBs that can groomed for the future?

One that couldn't even back up Betts when he went down last year. Some say punt return duties made that impossible. Okay didn't ARE return punts and was the 2nd WR.

Dude please. Are you doing a headstand? Because you are talking out your ass...Or your not as intelligent as you think you are.

Rock will be gone. Get your Kleenex..

Read my comment and then maybe you can have a better understanding than your blind commitment to a player that has reached his ceiling and is kept on the team because he's such a good tackler on special teams. He can be replaced and someone can take his palce. If not Danny Smith needs to re-examine how he coaches. If Rock is his ST super hero..

Debate with yourself dude..

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=SBXVII;583369][/b]

He has not done much since his 1st yr in the league on offense so why in the world would you think it would change after 7 yrs? I know Rock has that cute little title...RB, but he is not untilized as a RB. He is used one dimensionally as a KRer for like the last 6 yrs. Even when his moment to shine appeared the team had so much faith in him they picked up the TTB.

I wonder what people would be saying if Thomas got the nod for KR and was not ever again used as a WR. Never put on the field on offense as a WR. Only used as a KR. When someone is put in that situation isn't their job title supposed to be ....KR specialist. Not RB.[/quote]

Exactly.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;583371]Dude get your head out your ass!! Your truly idiotic. Please post the numbers sir. I am by far not the minority. One thing I must say though you are a royal prick. Its good to be a Rock lover. Thats all fine and dandy. But do you want to win games or do you want to obsess over Rock. The whole team comes before any player. Especially if that player is not producing.

One dimensional player that is average. 30 years old. Is not an asset at any other position. Like Devin Thomas, Moss, or Betts (or even Thrash when he was here for that matter).

You would rather keep him over one of 3 RBs that can groomed for the future?

One that couldn't even back up Betts when he went down last year. Some say punt return duties made that impossible. Okay didn't ARE return punts and was the 2nd WR.

Dude please. Are you doing a headstand? Because you are talking out your ass...Or your not as intelligent as you think you are.

Rock will be gone. Get your Kleenex..

Read my comment and then maybe you can have a better understanding than your blind commitment to a player that has reached his ceiling and is kept on the team because he's such a good tackler on special teams. He can be replaced and someone can take his palce. If not Danny Smith needs to re-examine how he coaches. If Rock is his ST super hero..

Debate with yourself dude..[/quote]

Here are your numbers:

Rock Cartwright, 6th in the NFL in kickoff return yards, 2008:

[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/returning/sort/kickReturnYards]2008 NFL Player Returning Stats - National Football League - ESPN[/url]

Rock Cartwright, 6th in the NFL in kickoff return yards, 2007:

[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/returning/sort/kickReturnYards/year/2007]2007 NFL Player Returning Stats - National Football League - ESPN[/url]

Rock Cartwright, 2nd in the NFL in kickoff return yards, 2006:

[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/returning/sort/kickReturnYards/year/2006]2006 NFL Player Returning Stats - National Football League - ESPN[/url]


By the way, you don't groom RBs for the future. They either come into the league ready to light it up or they don't (see Forte, Matt; Portis, Clinton for immediate success stories). The only way RBs seemingly bloom late is when they're stuck behind an entrenched star and then something changes (see Turner, Michael behind LDT and Holmes, Priest behind Jamal Lewis).

Marcus Mason is not that talented, plain and simple.

Like I said, learn the game and the numbers, and know what you're talking about, then come back and see me.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;583371]Dude get your head out your ass!! Your truly idiotic. Please post the numbers sir. I am by far not the minority. [/quote]

[url=http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?season=2008&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=KICK_RETURNS&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=KICK_RETURNS_YARDS&d-447263-n=1]NFL Stats: by Player Category[/url]

Rock was number 6 in yardage last year. And he can tackle!!! I would post a link to it, but you know that.

You can look at other years too. And then tell me who is better than Rock over those years. It won't be Mason or Alridge.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=Schneed10;583374]Here are your numbers:

Rock Cartwright, 6th in the NFL in kickoff return yards, 2008:

[URL="http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/returning/sort/kickReturnYards"]2008 NFL Player Returning Stats - National Football League - ESPN[/URL]

Rock Cartwright, 6th in the NFL in kickoff return yards, 2007:

[URL="http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/returning/sort/kickReturnYards/year/2007"]2007 NFL Player Returning Stats - National Football League - ESPN[/URL]

Rock Cartwright, 2nd in the NFL in kickoff return yards, 2006:

[URL="http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/returning/sort/kickReturnYards/year/2006"]2006 NFL Player Returning Stats - National Football League - ESPN[/URL]


[QUOTE]The only way RBs seemingly bloom late is when they're stuck behind an entrenched star and then something changes (see Turner, Michael behind LDT and Holmes, Priest behind Jamal Lewis).[/quote]

Thanks for making my point!!

Okay since you are a great statistician and that's what you base everything on (dork). Post this stat! How many times has he returned one for a TD?

Then come back and talk to yourself.

Is this Rock or Danny Smith? LMAO

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;583377]Okay since you are a great statistician and [B]that's what you base everything on (dork).[/B] Post this stat! How many times has he returned one for a TD?

Then come back and talk to yourself.

Is this Rock or Danny Smith? LMAO[/quote]

While I have no beef in this fight, I will just say that stats are pretty important and a bit hard to argue against.


That being said....when does the season start again?

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;583377]
[QUOTE=Schneed10;583374]Here are your numbers:

Rock Cartwright, 6th in the NFL in kickoff return yards, 2008:

[URL="http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/returning/sort/kickReturnYards"]2008 NFL Player Returning Stats - National Football League - ESPN[/URL]

Rock Cartwright, 6th in the NFL in kickoff return yards, 2007:

[URL="http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/returning/sort/kickReturnYards/year/2007"]2007 NFL Player Returning Stats - National Football League - ESPN[/URL]

Rock Cartwright, 2nd in the NFL in kickoff return yards, 2006:

[URL="http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/returning/sort/kickReturnYards/year/2006"]2006 NFL Player Returning Stats - National Football League - ESPN[/URL]


[/quote]

Thanks for making my point!!

Okay since you are a great statistician and that's what you base everything on (dork). Post this stat! How many times has he returned one for a TD?

Then come back and talk to yourself.

Is this Rock or Danny Smith? LMAO
[/QUOTE]
So are you dismissing the fact that for the past 3 years he has been in the top 6? and if so, what would you accept from his replacement?

First, you asked Schneed to show you the numbers, then you summarily dismiss quantifiable facts and name call. That's a way to lose arguments. As for the TD number, rather than asking a dismissive question you might have gone and looked yourself, my guess is the stats that Schneed gave you include those numbers. But stats are for dorks, so they don't count, but then you ask for them. strange rebuttal sir, strange rebuttal.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

Out of those top 10 in stats. How many of them play other roles on their teams besides kick returner? Exactly!!

3. Darren Sproles. Excellent RB. Pass catcher and return man.
4. Quintin Demps - Starting safety for Philly. Might be mistaken.
5. Jerious Norwood - Excellent RB. Pass catcher and return man.
7. Ellis Hobbs - Starting CB and return man
10. Leon Washington - Excellent RB. Pass catcher and return man.
11. Josh Cribbs - Decent WR and Excellent return man. Even played Qb in college. Versatile
12. Andre Davis - Decent WR and Excellent return man.

Rock - Excellent ST tackler and decent return man..LMAO

Devin Hester is 28th on the list. Rock must be better than him and Josh Cribbs. ROTFL

Your comical dude!!

Devin Hester Play WR. Josh Cribbs also..

Stat that...lol

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;583387]Out of those top 10 in stats. How many of them play other roles on their teams besides kick returner? Exactly!!

3. Darren Sproles. Excellent RB. Pass catcher and return man.
4. Quintin Demps - Starting safety for Philly. Might be mistaken.
5. Jerious Norwood - Excellent RB. Pass catcher and return man.
7. Ellis Hobbs - Starting CB and return man
10. Leon Washington - Excellent RB. Pass catcher and return man.
11. Josh Cribbs - Decent WR and Excellent return man. Even played Qb in college. Versatile
12. Andre Davis - Decent WR and Excellent return man.

Rock - Excellent ST tackler and decent return man..LMAO

Devin Hester is 28th on the list. Rock must be better than him and Josh Cribbs. ROTFL

Your comical dude!!

Devin Hester Play WR. Josh Cribbs also..

Stat that...lol[/quote]
interesting that Devin Hester had 0 KR/PR for TD according to the stats hmmm.
and the Number 1 returner had, hmmm, 0 tds.
fascinating.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;583384]So are you dismissing the fact that for the past 3 years he has been in the top 6? and if so, what would you accept from his replacement?

First, you asked Schneed to show you the numbers, then you summarily dismiss quantifiable facts and name call. That's a way to lose arguments. As for the TD number, rather than asking a dismissive question you might have gone and looked yourself, my guess is the stats that Schneed gave you include those numbers. But stats are for dorks, so they don't count, but then you ask for them. strange rebuttal sir, strange rebuttal.[/quote]

No he called me a half-wit while back. Stats are important but not everything. Devin Hester is 28th on that list. Would you rather have him or Rock. Josh Cribbs is under him also..Who would you rather have. Is that so hard to understand. No my point was the one I made above. I am well aware that Rock has only return 1 in his whole career. I was actually be sarcastic. because I knew he would go through the effort to post the stats like an ass. But to make my point again. he came out with the half-wit comment and began to belittle me. Read the previous reply then you willget my point. Stats are important. But NOT EVERYTHING. We had the 4th ranked D in the league last year. But only had 28 sacks. Denver was one of the top offenses in the league. They sucked. So there are other things that factor in beside just the numbers..

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;583391]No he called me a half-wit while back. Stats are important but not everything. Devin Hester is 28th on that list. Would you rather have him or Rock. Josh Cribbs is under him also..Who would you rather have. Is that so hard to understand. No my point was the one I made above. I am well aware that Rock has only return 1 in his whole career. I was actually be sarcastic. because I knew he would go through the effort to post the stats like an ass. But to make my point again. he came out with the half-wit comment and began to belittle me. Read the previous reply then you willget my point. Stats are important. But NOT EVERYTHING. We had the 4th ranked D in the league last year. But only had 28 sacks. Denver was one of the top offenses in the league. They sucked. So there are other things that factor in beside just the numbers..[/quote]Well, it's kick returning, not punt returning. And while I'd take Cribbs over pretty much everyone, Hester has never been much of a kick returner. Most of his TD's come against the punt unit.

Rock doesn't return punts. But that doesn't mean he doesn't play on the unit elsewhere. Granted, that one unit does suck, but hard to argue that it's specifically Rock's fault.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;583390]interesting that Devin Hester had 0 KR/PR for TD according to the stats hmmm.
and the Number 1 returner had, hmmm, 0 tds.
fascinating.[/quote]

Okay. Answer this question honestly.

Who would you rather have?

Devin Hester or Rock?
Josh Cribbs or Rock?

Like I said stats are important but they aren't EVERYTHING

As far as the 0 td comment. I think he has been in the league for 7 goingon 8 yrs. So he should havemore than 1 return for a TD..

Look at the versatility of the players on this list. Also look at their ages.

Most play a prominent role on defense or offense. Rock doesn't

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;583391]No he called me a half-wit while back. Stats are important but not everything. Devin Hester is 28th on that list. Would you rather have him or Rock. Josh Cribbs is under him also..Who would you rather have. Is that so hard to understand. No my point was the one I made above. I am well aware that Rock has only return 1 in his whole career. I was actually be sarcastic. because I knew he would go through the effort to post the stats like an ass. But to make my point again. he came out with the half-wit comment and began to belittle me. Read the previous reply then you willget my point. Stats are important. But NOT EVERYTHING. We had the 4th ranked D in the league last year. But only had 28 sacks. Denver was one of the top offenses in the league. They sucked. So there are other things that factor in beside just the numbers..[/quote]

See, I understand that stats aren't everything, but if you exclude stats, what else do you look at when defending/criticizing Cartwright? from what i have read it seems like your biggest beef is only 1 TD in 3 yrs. If thats true, than its a stat, and by all the stats together Cartwright is a top returner. The best no, but proven effective yes.

If you say don't only use stats, then the question is, what else do you want to look at; the pro-RC people point to his locker room presence, his leadership on all phases of STs, except FG.(again as highlighted by coaches and players alike). And his short yardage pounding(yes this is his weakest part). All I see the anti-RC people saying is, we gotta go with someone new. Maybe I've missed the non-stat argument, if so please restate it.

Overall, if the team goes a different way, great I hope it works. If they stay with RC, well then we should have a top 10 return game, albeit unlikely to see it produce that 1 TD you want.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;583393]Okay. Answer this question honestly.

[B]Who would you rather have?
[/B]
Devin Hester or Rock?
Josh Cribbs or Rock?

Like I said stats are important but they aren't EVERYTHING

As far as the 0 td comment. I think he has been in the league for 7 goingon 8 yrs. So he should havemore than 1 return for a TD..

Look at the versatility of the players on this list. Also look at their ages.

Most play a prominent role on defense or offense. Rock doesn't[/quote]THIS WAS NEVER, EVER THE QUESTION.

You can't have Cribbs or Hester to replace him. You're making a half-wit argument.

If you cut Rock to get a 3rd string RB on the roster who, if he isn't better, at least is younger, then Rock's contribution get replaced by people who probably aren't very good at them. Hey, maybe you get lucky and find another special teams demon in Devin Thomas. But you don't count on it, certainly, and you expect to take a hit on special teams.

Which is justifiable, if you are getting a LOT better on offense. But this is not what is happening here.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;583393]Okay. Answer this question honestly.

[B]Who would you rather have?

Devin Hester or Rock?
Josh Cribbs or Rock?[/B]

Like I said stats are important but they aren't EVERYTHING

As far as the 0 td comment. I think he has been in the league for 7 goingon 8 yrs. So he should havemore than 1 return for a TD..

Look at the versatility of the players on this list. Also look at their ages.

Most play a prominent role on defense or offense. Rock doesn't[/quote]

This is quite a nice false dilemna. If it were Madden or Fantasy, I personally would want Sproles. BUT this is the NFL, real contracts, real people. We have 3 or 4 people to consider, none of whom are a Hester, Cribbs, or Sproles. Rock is a proven top 6 returner for the past 3 years. That is a good thing. I would like to see DT tonight, see what he can do, and maybe we do let Rock go. But lets not kid ourselves and think Mason, or Aldridge, or Dorsey are equal to Hester/Cribbs/Sproles.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;583394]See, I understand that stats aren't everything, but if you exclude stats, what else do you look at when defending/criticizing Cartwright? from what i have read it seems like your biggest beef is only 1 TD in 3 yrs. If thats true, than its a stat, and by all the stats together Cartwright is a top returner. The best no, but proven effective yes.

If you say don't only use stats, then the question is, what else do you want to look at; the pro-RC people point to his locker room presence, his leadership on all phases of STs, except FG.(again as highlighted by coaches and players alike). And his short yardage pounding(yes this is his weakest part). All I see the anti-RC people saying is, we gotta go with someone new. Maybe I've missed the non-stat argument, if so please restate it.

Overall, if the team goes a different way, great I hope it works. If they stay with RC, well then we should have a top 10 return game, albeit unlikely to see it produce that 1 TD you want.[/quote]

NO. I am not excluding stats. That's the thing. I am including everything. Age, Versatilty, Running Ability & Stats. Not just stats alone. Its not a question about only kick returns. Its a question of if he is that valuable that we can't use another player that could "possibly" be as good as him as a returner. Who can also contribute at anotehr position like back up running back, wr or defensive player. Him being one dimensional and not that dynamic makes him expendable. I will bet you. If devin was back there he could return punts just as well as or better. But he also plays WR too...How many times I have to explain this....

Just like I created a post about Devin Kick Returner?

Some people got waht I was saying. some were like it would never happend. then what happend the next preseason game. They tried him out a KR. But I know nothing about football. The writing is on the wall!!

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;583396]This is quite a nice false dilemna. If it were Madden or Fantasy, I personally would want Sproles. BUT this is the NFL, real contracts, real people. We have 3 or 4 people to consider, none of whom are a Hester, Cribbs, or Sproles. Rock is a proven top 6 returner for the past 3 years. That is a good thing. I would like to see DT tonight, see what he can do, and maybe we do let Rock go. But lets not kid ourselves and think Mason, or Aldridge, or Dorsey are equal to Hester/Cribbs/Sproles.[/quote]

Who the hell said that?

the statement I made was about STATS. I am saying that jsut because a player has formidable stats doesn't mean he is the best player. That's why I used Cribbs and Hester as an example. Mason, Aldridge or Dorsey are no where in the league as those guys. But one thing is for sure. Rock is not goign to get any better. Let's just let M.A.D go (Mason, Aldridge & Dorsey) and stick with Rock. then maybe TTB will be available in the future.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;583397]NO. I am not excluding stats. That's the thing. I am including everything. Age, Versatilty, Running Ability & Stats. Not just stats alone. Its not a question about only kick returns. Its a question of if he is that valuable that we can't use another player that could "possibly" be as good as him as a returner. Who can also contribute at anotehr position like back up running back, wr or defensive player. Him being one dimensional and not that dynamic makes him expendable. I will bet you. If devin was back there he could return punts just as well as or better. But he also plays WR too...How many times I have to explain this....

Just like I created a post about Devin Kick Returner?

Some people got waht I was saying. some were like it would never happend. then what happend the next preseason game. They tried him out a KR. But I know nothing about football. The writing is on the wall!![/quote]Thing is, you're not including everything. You might be including more than just kick return yardage, but you aren't going to win a nobel prize for doing that. You aren't looking at the big picture.

You've (very unsuccessfully) tried to disprove that Rock offers plus value. Then you've asserted that we need to get younger at the RB position (probably correct), but don't suggest any alternatives to how this could happen. You basically just hate Rock irrationally for everything he is not.

What is really apparent is that you really think highly of your own football knowledge, which is fair. However, you've yet to show us any reason to take said knowledge seriously. If you know as much as you think you do, there should not be such a disconnect there.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;583399]Who the hell said that?

the statement I made was about STATS. I am saying that jsut because a player has formidable stats doesn't mean he is the best player. That's why I used Cribbs and Hester as an example. Mason, Aldridge or Dorsey are no where in the league as those guys. But one thing is for sure. Rock is not goign to get any better. Let's just let M.A.D go (Mason, Aldridge & Dorsey) and stick with Rock. then maybe TTB will be available in the future.[/quote]You just rebutted CRedskinsRule accusation of a false alternative with a false alternative. You are quite a piece of work.

You don't HAVE to release Rock to keep one of Mason/Alridge/Dorsey. It was your idea that Rock should go and make room. It was incredibly shortsighted to ignore that Rock has nothing to do with your desire for a younger, more explosive RB, but yet, that's where we're at.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

Stats a side, the team drills in the "versatility" among players issue. My issue is the fact people including the coach's want to comment on Mason's lack of playing special teams but want to over look Cartwright's lack of playing RB. As funny as you all think it sounds I think Mason is better then Rock maybe even better then Betts. Rock never gets positive yrds as a RB he gets lucky and breaks one for 30-40 yrds in a game when utilized as a RB during preseason against 2nd stringers. Mason lead the league in yrds against same said 2nds stringers. One would wonder why a RB in the league for 8yrs, according to ESPN, can't do better against 2nd stringers. Apparently he's not good of a RB.

Betts is not bad but is getting old which brings on the issue of injuries. Didn't he just sit out a preseason game due to one? I know it's only preseason and probably wants to heal prior to the season but the fact is he was nicked. At close to 30 yrs of age he's no spring chicken and the pounding will wear on his body just as it has Portis the last few yrs. Also can someone explain why the team is planning on using Betts as the third down back when on countless times he could not pick up 4th and 1 or 3rd and 2? Most of us on the boards screamed that Portis should have been getting those carries or Sellers.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

We could resolve this argument by having Haynesworth return kicks. It would revolutionize the game. :)

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=SBXVII;583404]Stats a side, the team drills in the "versatility" among players issue. My issue is the fact people including the coach's want to comment on Mason's lack of playing special teams but want to over look Cartwright's lack of playing RB. As funny as you all think it sounds I think Mason is better then Rock maybe even better then Betts. Rock never gets positive yrds as a RB he gets lucky and breaks one for 30-40 yrds in a game when utilized as a RB during preseason against 2nd stringers. Mason lead the league in yrds against same said 2nds stringers. One would wonder why a RB in the league for 8yrs, according to ESPN, can't do better against 2nd stringers. Apparently he's not good of a RB.

Betts is not bad but is getting old which brings on the issue of injuries. Didn't he just sit out a preseason game due to one? I know it's only preseason and probably wants to heal prior to the season but the fact is he was nicked. At close to 30 yrs of age he's no spring chicken and the pounding will wear on his body just as it has Portis the last few yrs. Also can someone explain why the team is planning on using Betts as the third down back when on countless times he could not pick up 4th and 1 or 3rd and 2? Most of us on the boards screamed that Portis should have been getting those carries or Sellers.[/quote]

SO Why can't we keep the guy who gives us the proven return/st ability, and also bring in the most promising of the other RBs. Why does it seemngly have to be all or nothing?

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=Lotus;583405]We could resolve this argument by having Haynesworth return kicks. It would revolutionize the game. :)[/quote]

Now that would be a sight. Imagine his face as hes huffing down the field, it may be enough to scare the defenders out of the way!

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=Lotus;583405]We could resolve this argument by having Haynesworth return kicks. It would revolutionize the game. :)[/quote]

Or start another thread about the same topic where you can argue about it in a new setting? LOL.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;583407]SO Why can't we keep the guy who gives us the proven return/st ability, and also bring in the most promising of the other RBs. Why does it seemngly have to be all or nothing?[/quote]

Good point. If we keep 4 backs not including Sellers. That may be a possibility. I just think if we could keep a 2 out of M.A.D. (mason, aldridge and Dorsey. We could possibly find a diamond in the rough who could possibly contribute on more than one unit.

That's my point of view.

Whether its Mason & Aldridge, Aldridge & Dorsey or Mason & Dorsey. We prepare for the future and could possibly find a replacement for Portis in a few years. So we can use our picks next year on OLs & LBs. If they dont pan out. We can draft a RB the next year. I just don't want what happened last year to happen again. Even if Portis gets hurt and Betts is still their. He will still need someone to fill in for him on some play. Also someone that can punch it in at the goal line. I just think versatility and looking to the future is key.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;583407]SO Why can't we keep the guy who gives us the proven return/st ability, and also bring in the most promising of the other RBs. Why does it seemngly have to be all or nothing?[/quote]

I'll be honest with you. It doesn't even have to be Mason so long as they have a young talent to bring up through the ranks. but I do take exception to people saying blatently ...Mason sucks. If he did the team would not have gone to the lengths they have to get him back. However since stats are important to some please locate Mason and Cartwright on this stat board which I feel is more accurate;

[URL="http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=RUSHING&conference=null&season=2009&seasonType=PRE&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1"]NFL Stats: by Player Category[/URL]

I'll save you some time. Mason is 33rd on the list of rushers and Cartwright is 99th.

or try this one...

[URL="http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?season=2009&archive=false&seasonType=PRE&Submit=Go&qualified=true&conference=null&tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=KICK_RETURNS&d-447263-p=2&experience=null"]NFL Stats: by Player Category[/URL]

The highest Skin on the Return list is Thomas at 23 and Cartwright is 68. My point is stats can be manipulated for whatever purpose. Since Rock has not been used as much this preseason in order to look at others lets look at last yrs stats....

[URL="http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?season=2008&archive=false&seasonType=REG&Submit=Go&qualified=true&conference=null&tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=RUSHING&d-447263-p=5&experience=null"]NFL Stats: by Player Category[/URL]

Rock was 225 on the list of Rushers for last yr. Obviously his leadership skills and tackling are carrying over to his rushing yrds. If he's such a good tackler why doesn't he fill in as Safety. I mean the team definitly needs a sure tackler in the back field.

Rock may have been 6th on ESPN's total yrds for the 08 season as a KR but NFL.com has him tied at 23 for average yrds 25.6 yrds average for every KR.

[url=http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&statisticCategory=KICK_RETURNS&season=2008&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=0&qualified=true&Submit=Go]NFL Stats: by Player Category[/url]

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=Ruhskins;583413]Or start another thread about the same topic where you can argue about it in a new setting? LOL.[/quote]

NO I want to concentrate on the RB position solely and if Rock is expendable..That's why I started the thread. its more straight forward. So people can weigh in..

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=SBXVII;583419]I'll be honest with you. It doesn't even have to be Mason so long as they have a young talent to bring up through the ranks. but I do take exception to people saying blatently ...Mason sucks. If he did the team would not have gone to the lengths they have to get him back. However since stats are important to some please locate Mason and Cartwright on this stat board which I feel is more accurate;

[URL="http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=RUSHING&conference=null&season=2009&seasonType=PRE&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1"]NFL Stats: by Player Category[/URL]

I'll save you some time. Mason is 33rd on the list of rushers and Cartwright is 99th.

or try this one...

[URL="http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?season=2009&archive=false&seasonType=PRE&Submit=Go&qualified=true&conference=null&tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=KICK_RETURNS&d-447263-p=2&experience=null"]NFL Stats: by Player Category[/URL]

The highest Skin on the Return list is Thomas at 23 and Cartwright is 68. My point is stats can be manipulated for whatever purpose. Since Rock has not been used as much this preseason in order to look at others lets look at last yrs stats....

[URL="http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?season=2008&archive=false&seasonType=REG&Submit=Go&qualified=true&conference=null&tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=RUSHING&d-447263-p=5&experience=null"]NFL Stats: by Player Category[/URL]

Rock was 225 on the list of Rushers for last yr. Obviously his leadership skills and tackling are carrying over to his rushing yrds. If he's such a good tackler why doesn't he fill in as Safety. I mean the team definitly needs a sure tackler in the back field.

Rock may have been 6th on ESPN's total yrds for the 08 season as a KR but NFL.com has him tied at 23 for average yrds 25.6 yrds average for every KR.

[URL="http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&statisticCategory=KICK_RETURNS&season=2008&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=0&qualified=true&Submit=Go"]NFL Stats: by Player Category[/URL][/quote]

My point exactly. Maybe I didn't convey the message clearly. But that's what I mean. By saying stats are important but there are other factors. Age, Versatily (playing on more than one unit) and running ability...Rock is 29 yrs old. Betts 29 and Portis just turned 28.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

Also exactly how much does Portis and Betts contribute on special teams. Since the bench mark is how much a player contributes on special teams.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

I think if the team is happy with Thomas KRing then it doesn't matter if any RB can or can not KR. No different then none of the WR's actually KRed in the past except Moss and only on an emergency basis.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

if the redskins had the right idea they would pick up the damn phone and call nemo broughton. best RB ever.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;583329]I'm not getting the Aldrige love. He had one good preseason game. Did I miss something?[/quote]

Vinny is high on him and he was impressive last preseason with Denver.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=Ruhskins;583359]I think the thing that is going to bother me when we do make these cuts, is when some crazy yahoos are going to be ranting about how the team is going down the shitter....and all because we cut some 3rd or 4th stringer.[/quote]

lol oh yeah can't wait

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

Only late in the preseason can there be a 40 post debate about our 3rd and 4th string RB, lol.

Here's my take, unless Aldridge really struggles, fumbles or gets injured tonight he's on the team. He becomes a Leon Washington type player, not a true backup in the true sense of the word to replace Betts, not a 3rd on the depth chart guy lock Rock. He's a change of pace player, getting 5-8 snaps a game with the hopes that he make a big play. By Vinny saying 5 backs (including Sellers) are likely means that it will be Rock [B]plus[/B] either Mason, Dorsey or Aldridge.

If it were purely about the 3rd RB position, then Mason would probably beat out Rock because he's a better RB than Rock is, but Rock is that guy who does a little bit of everything on ST well and you can't replace him with a guy who doesn't play ST.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;583397]NO. I am not excluding stats. That's the thing. I am including everything. Age, Versatilty, Running Ability & Stats. Not just stats alone. Its not a question about only kick returns. Its a question of if he is that valuable that we can't use another player that could "possibly" be as good as him as a returner. Who can also contribute at anotehr position like back up running back, wr or defensive player. Him being one dimensional and not that dynamic makes him expendable. I will bet you. If devin was back there he could return punts just as well as or better. But he also plays WR too...How many times I have to explain this....

Just like I created a post about Devin Kick Returner?

Some people got waht I was saying. some were like it would never happend. then what happend the next preseason game. They tried him out a KR. But I know nothing about football. The writing is on the wall!![/quote]

Dude, I don't even know what you are saying anymore. Were you drinking heavily last night? Sounds like your drunk!

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

[quote=SBXVII;583423]Also exactly how much does Portis and Betts contribute on special teams. Since the bench mark is how much a player contributes on special teams.[/quote]

Someone has to play special teams, so if your 3rd running back is capable that is ideal. Although I do love Rock, and I see him as more valuable than most people commenting, I wouldnt be upset to see a change. Thomas looked great last week on KR's, and I think he has real "home-run" potential. Rock does play coverage units as well, but I cant believe someone else cannot step into that role. Everytime we hear about Betts looking good, he ends up coming up lame. He is a career backup, and I feel like Mason could fill his shoes, and he is younger. I havent been as impressed with Dorsey, although Id like to see someone supplant ARE at punt returner. Id like to see Alridge playing against some 1st-2nd stringers, he looked great against the guys that wont make the team.

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

I have a gut feeling that one of these four guys is going to get cut-Yoder, Sellers, Rock, Betts

I'm not advocating it, just a gut feeling.

I'll throw in Scott Burely and Doug Dutch just to feel more secure in my gut feeling :)

Re: Vinny tips his hand on the final 53
 

Yoder wouldn't be a shock, especially if they are keeping 2 TE's in order to keep a 5th back. Sellers can play some TE too so I don't think losing a 3rd TE is that big of a deal.