Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;586886]Schneed - as to malpractice. I understand the costs but, other than capping punitive awards, what can other ways are their to cut malpractice insurance? Even capping puni's (which this administration would have a hard time doing b/c of its allegiance to the trial lawyers) may not work - I am simply unsure of what percentage of awards they make up and what the trend is.[/quote]

Cutting puni's is it. Malpractice is a simple business.

The cash in to malpractice insurance firms comes in the form of premiums. Cash out comes in the form of paying punitive damages and settlements.

The settlements come down if punitive damages come down. It's pretty simple.

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;586865]I can tell you that at our healthsystem malpractice premiums account for about 3-4% of our total expenses.

Malpractice premiums are increasing at about 15% per year.

So while the rest of our costs increase at about 6% per year, because malpractice is going up by 15%, it is responsible for a [B]half of a percentage[/B] increase in overall expense growth within healthcare.

Reducing overall healthcare expenses across the nation by a [B]tenth of a percent[/B] would cut the deficit drastically. This could be accomplished by getting malpractice premiums to increase by only 12% instead of by 15%.

Small changes in expense growth accumulate to massive savings across the system, at least when compared to the projected deficit.[/quote]

The real cost of malpractice is something I've been looking for for a while. Can you reference statistics on the subject matter?

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

Learning a little as I go here. Tell me what you think of the validity of this study. [url]http://www.citizen.org/documents/NPDB%20Report_Final.pdf[/url]

I am not a numbers guy and this is a very statistic heavy study but it argues that the majority of malpractice costs are essentially due more to rising costs of care and lack of doctor disciplinary actions ("only 18 percent of doctors have been responsible for even a single malpractice payment" - yet only 33% of those doctors who have had 10 or more claims paid have been subjected to discipline).

The study relies on data collected by the "National Practitioner Data Bank" are you familiar with this entity? If so, do you believe it to be a credible data base?

Just from a general skimming of the information on the internet turned up by my search for "malpractice awards punitive percentage" seems to suggest that this is another one of those areas where stats don't support intuitive/common thought. Many states have capped punitive dams (~20), five don't allow them at all. [url=http://www.cga.ct.gov/2003/olrdata/ins/rpt/2003-R-0743.htm]PUNITIVE DAMAGE AWARDS, CAPS, AND STANDARDS[/url]. Even so, malpractice costs increase.

Not sure what all this means except that we are back to "no easy answers".

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

[quote=saden1;586909]The real cost of malpractice is something I've been looking for for a while. Can you reference statistics on the subject matter?[/quote]

What sort of stats are you looking for? Premium costs? Average payouts?
Again, take a look at the consumer study I referenced. Lots of stuff in there. It's a "consumer" organization, don't know if it's just a front for the trial lawyers. Also, while the data seems to be pretty impartial, hard to tell from 15-20 mins of searching/skimming.

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;586901]Cutting puni's is it. Malpractice is a simple business.

The cash in to malpractice insurance firms comes in the form of premiums. [B]Cash out comes in the form of paying punitive damages and settlements[/B].

The settlements come down if punitive damages come down. It's pretty simple.[/quote]

Cash out comes from paying [I]judgments[/I] and settlements. Not just punitive damages. Judgments & settlements are also made up of compensatory awards. Reducing compensatory damage awards also requires reducing medical costs (i.e. the cost for Doctor B to fix what Doctor A did wrong). So, I don't think it is as clear cut as you paint it. Capping punitive damages seems to be one (possibly small) aspect, but it does not appear to be a cure all for the high cost of malpractice insurance.

Bring on the MICC

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

[quote=saden1;586909]The real cost of malpractice is something I've been looking for for a while. Can you reference statistics on the subject matter?[/quote]

No don't have anything like that. I'm just referencing information from our own internal financial statements.

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;586920]Cash out comes from paying [I]judgments[/I] and settlements. Not just punitive damages. Judgments & settlements are also made up of compensatory awards. Reducing compensatory damage awards also requires reducing medical costs (i.e. the cost for Doctor B to fix what Doctor A did wrong). So, I don't think it is as clear cut as you paint it. Capping punitive damages seems to be one (possibly small) aspect, but it does not appear to be a cure all for the high cost of malpractice insurance.

Bring on the MICC[/quote]

You're right, the compensatory component isn't likely to be reduced. But capping the punitive would make a dent large enough to move the meter on the federal deficit.

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;586913]What sort of stats are you looking for? Premium costs? Average payouts?
Again, take a look at the consumer study I referenced. Lots of stuff in there. It's a "consumer" organization, don't know if it's just a front for the trial lawyers. Also, while the data seems to be pretty impartial, hard to tell from 15-20 mins of searching/skimming.[/quote]

What I'm really looking for a survey of how much doctors are paying in insurance premiums on average and the average award by jurist. It's really hard to assess the scope of the problem without knowing the statistical data on who/what/when/where.

It seems that this information is top secrete and no one wants to disclose it. Not even by a [URL="http://www.npdb-hipdb.hrsa.gov/npdb.html"]government agency[/URL] responsible for tracking this information.

[quote]Access to information in the NPDB is available to entities that meet the eligibility requirements defined in the provisions of [URL="http://www.npdb-hipdb.hrsa.gov/legislation/title4.html"]P.L. 99-660[/URL] and the [URL="http://www.npdb-hipdb.hrsa.gov/legislation/Final_Regulations_Title_IV.pdf"]NPDB regulations[/URL] [IMG]http://www.npdb-hipdb.hrsa.gov/images/pdf_icon.gif[/IMG]. In order to access information, entities must first register with the Data Bank.
NPDB information is not available to the [URL="http://www.npdb-hipdb.hrsa.gov/genpublic.html"]general public[/URL]. However, information in a form that does not identify any particular entity or practitioner is available.
[/quote]

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

[quote=saden1;587045]What I'm really looking for a survey of how much doctors are paying in insurance premiums on average and the average award by jurist. It's really hard to assess the scope of the problem without knowing the statistical data on who/what/when/where.

It seems that this information is top secrete and no one wants to disclose it. Not even by a [URL="http://www.npdb-hipdb.hrsa.gov/npdb.html"]government agency[/URL] responsible for tracking this information.[/quote]

I have two friends who are doctors and one pays $90,000 and the other around $85,000 between the two only one was sued about 5 years back. Not sure what they received but my buddy said he screwed up in that case.

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

Ok, this has nothing to do with health care but I did not feel it was worth another thread. Obama did the right thing yesterday and gave the OK to hit a terrorist which we have been trying to track down.
[url=http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/09/15/somalia.strike/index.html]Key al Qaeda operative killed in U.S. strike, Somalia says - CNN.com[/url] He also imposed new punitive tariffs on all car and light truck tires coming into the U.S. from China which was also a good move. I just thought I would post this for our friends on the left who seem to think we can never say anything good about OBama.
[url=http://www.startribune.com/politics/59082617.html?elr=KArks8c7PaP3E77K_3c::D3aDhUec7PaP3E77K_0c::D3aDhUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU]Obama imposes tariffs on Chinese tires; Beijing calls move 'protectionism' | StarTribune.com[/url]

I also used their talking point news source CNN.

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

thats because it probably wasnt news on fox( haha)

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

If health care is so important to help lead us out of this economy and so good for everyone why does it take 4 years before the plan would go into effect?

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

Man things are getting pretty bad when they need Jimmy Carter to jump in and start playing the race card for Obama. The Dems are doing a fine job of turning people against them on their own now.
[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtfzMLS_-NU"]YouTube - Jimmy Carter Obama criticism racist[/URL]

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;586536]God I really hate when you guys descend into a bipartisan back-and-forth divided right down party lines. These discussions have become such drivel.

Political talk on the Warpath was good for a while, but sadly nobody wants to analyze the issues or present ideas anymore. I don't think it's worthwhile for me to try to add to the discussion anymore.[/quote]


Thanks for the posts Schneed. It's good to get some info from someone who can clearly define the issues. There shouldn't be a political agenda involved in this issue (or any issue) but unfortunately it's inevitable.

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

first, what does Carter have to do with health care?

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

[quote=dmek25;590135]first, what does Carter have to do with health care?[/quote]
I was not going to start a thread about JC just wanted to post what he said either today or yesterday about people who disagree with Obama's health care plan.

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

i have ask before, so ill try again. what do you propose we do about health care?

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

[quote=dmek25;590160]i have ask before, so ill try again. what do you propose we do about health care?[/quote]

Why is it that some people think that a lack of alternative ideas necessarily disqualifies someone from being allowed to disagree? Aren't those two notions mutually exclusive? I mean I can tell you it's a bad idea to use plexiglas for the windshield of the space shuttle but I don't have a clue what they really use. I know you may not be getting at the whole "don't talk unless you have solutions" argument but you're wandering down that road with that question and I have definitely seen that argument around here more than once.

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

i was just wondering if we are in agreement that something needs to be done... people that disagree just for the sake of disagreeing are a different story.

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

[quote=dmek25;590194]i was just wondering if we are in agreement that something needs to be done... people that disagree just for the sake of disagreeing are a different story.[/quote]

I totally agree that something needs to be done but I perfer to start with fixing the private market and if that cannot be done then maybe look toward goverment plan or some type of single payer system. The problem with starting with a goverment plan if it fails from the begining or anytime for that matter they will not scrap the plan and will just keep dumping more money into and expanding it more and more.

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

I don't know who to root for anymore. On one hand the Republicans are helping me keep the timely, top notch health care that I depend on. To demonstrate 3 of my last 5 surgeries were scheduled a week in advance. Another was scheduled for when my blood count was expected to go back to normal and the other was arranged to be right after the school year ended. It takes people in other countries 6 month to get an MRI scheduled. For me it takes a day, sometimes the same day.

However at the same time I realize the republican base is full of idiots. For example I was listening to Hannity on the radio and some guy called in talking about how the democrats are going to regret the way they're treating the Republican party in 2012 when Joe Wilson is speaker of the house and Sarah Palin is president. My goodness didn't you learn from Bush to stay away from these types of people or are you just a gluten for punishment?

Then I tune into C-Span and see a Republican convention type deal and who should show up but Ms. South Carolina herself talking about how God has a plan for her. Ironically she looked like she had just came from the infamous beauty pageant crying.

Why do these people have to be paraded around on stage? Can't you send in a check and just stay home looking pretty while talking about the plagues God will bring upon the gays? Look here's an idea stay in the closet and don't come out.

So now it's between the incompetent republicans and the overtaxing, hands on mother-in-law party also known as the Democrats. If only every country could be so lucky. Of course when I put it that way maybe I can look and say that things aren't so bad after all.

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;591238]I don't know who to root for anymore. On one hand the Republicans are helping me keep the timely, top notch health care that I depend on. To demonstrate 3 of my last 5 surgeries were scheduled a week in advance. Another was scheduled for when my blood count was expected to go back to normal and the other was arranged to be right after the school year ended. It takes people in other countries 6 month to get an MRI scheduled. For me it takes a day, sometimes the same day.

[B]However at the same time I realize the republican base is full of idiots. [/B]For example I was listening to Hannity on the radio and some guy called in talking about how the democrats are going to regret the way they're treating the Republican party in 2012 when Joe Wilson is speaker of the house and Sarah Palin is president. My goodness didn't you learn from Bush to stay away from these types of people or are you just a gluten for punishment?

Then I tune into C-Span and see a Republican convention type deal and who should show up but Ms. South Carolina herself talking about how God has a plan for her. Ironically she looked like she had just came from the infamous beauty pageant crying.

Why do these people have to be paraded around on stage? [B]Can't you send in a check and just stay home looking pretty while talking about the plagues God will bring upon the gays?[/B] Look here's an idea stay in the closet and don't come out.

So now it's between the incompetent republicans and the overtaxing, hands on mother-in-law party also known as the Democrats. If only every country could be so lucky. Of course when I put it that way maybe I can look and say that things aren't so bad after all.[/quote]

Yep -- you and I are on the same page here. If the Republicans could ditch the looney, bible-thumping evangelical zealots they'd be okay with me.

Republicans: Drop your obsession with homosexuality, admit that the anti-abortion crusade is lost, and give up the self-appointed role of police chief of the planet earth. Do these things and you'll start winning elections again.

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

[quote=Beemnseven;591318]Yep -- you and I are on the same page here. If the Republicans could ditch the looney, bible-thumping evangelical zealots they'd be okay with me.

Republicans: Drop your obsession with homosexuality, admit that the anti-abortion crusade is lost, and give up the self-appointed role of police chief of the planet earth. Do these things and you'll start winning elections again.[/quote]

Amen. The base allows themselves to get distracted from the issues that really matter.

How you can view gay marriage as more important than wars or finding jobs for the 9% of citizens who are unemployed is beyond me. Actual lives and livelihoods are a lot more important than whether a gay dude can get married or whether he has to just live together with his life partner.

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;591329]Amen. The base allows themselves to get distracted from the issues that really matter.

How you can view gay marriage as more important than wars or finding jobs for the 9% of citizens who are unemployed is beyond me. Actual lives and livelihoods are a lot more important than whether a gay dude can get married or whether he has to just live together with his life partner.[/quote]

I thought that trillion dollars that Obama got to fix things was going to take care of unemployment and so much other stuff. Maybe he just waisted that trillion dollars like all the other money Washington waist. I do think Acorn got some of that money so they probably helped keep the unemployment down by putting more hooker's on the streets.

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

[quote=Beemnseven;591318]Yep -- you and I are on the same page here. If the Republicans could ditch the looney, bible-thumping evangelical zealots they'd be okay with me.

Republicans: Drop your obsession with homosexuality, admit that the anti-abortion crusade is lost, and give up the self-appointed role of police chief of the planet earth. Do these things and you'll start winning elections again.[/quote]

Ding ding ding...

Almost...articles like this make me laugh at the Pubs
[url=http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090920/D9AQQ25G0.html]My Way News - Romney taunts Democrats with memories of Carter[/url]
They act like they aren't just as responsible for the over-spending.

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

[quote=FRPLG;592756]Ding ding ding...

Almost...articles like this make me laugh at the Pubs
[URL="http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090920/D9AQQ25G0.html"]My Way News - Romney taunts Democrats with memories of Carter[/URL]
They act like they aren't just as responsible for the over-spending.[/quote]

Do you know about how bad things got under JC. Spending was not the issue it was inflation, loans for a home around 18% and higher, gas lines, no foriegn policy, etc....

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

[quote=firstdown;592833]Do you know about how bad things got under JC. Spending was not the issue it was inflation, loans for a home around 18% and higher, gas lines, no foriegn policy, etc....[/quote]

Stop. Read what I wrote. It has nothing to do with Jimmy Carter. For the love of god read. You can read right? You don't have some learning disability that inhibits you from reading something and properly comprehending what is being conveyed right?


edit: it occurs to me that you didn't actually read the article so you have no context for what I wrote. In which case you are a dumbass. The article, like ym post, has nothing to do with JC other than referencing that crap got bad when he was Pres. Again...please make an attempt at knowing WTF you are talking about before you post.

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

[quote=FRPLG;592899]Stop. Read what I wrote. It has nothing to do with Jimmy Carter. For the love of god read. You can read right? You don't have some learning disability that inhibits you from reading something and properly comprehending what is being conveyed right?


edit: it occurs to me that you didn't actually read the article so you have no context for what I wrote. In which case you are a dumbass. The article, like ym post, has nothing to do with JC other than referencing that crap got bad when he was Pres. Again...please make an attempt at knowing WTF you are talking about before you post.[/quote]

Yea, I can read and go F yourself.

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

[quote=firstdown;593061]Yea, I can read and go F yourself.[/quote]

If you can read then please do explain your response. It lacks sense.

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

[quote=FRPLG;593120]If you can read then please do explain your response. It lacks sense.[/quote]

I was working and only read some of the article and your right my response missed your point. Why couldn't you just have asked if a read the entire article instead of the long rant calling me a dumb ass? That would have been alot easier and my reply would have been alot better.

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

[quote=FRPLG;590178]Why is it that some people think that a lack of alternative ideas necessarily disqualifies someone from being allowed to disagree? Aren't those two notions mutually exclusive? I mean I can tell you it's a bad idea to use plexiglas for the windshield of the space shuttle but I don't have a clue what they really use. I know you may not be getting at the whole "don't talk unless you have solutions" argument but you're wandering down that road with that question and I have definitely seen that argument around here more than once.[/quote]

Well given that health care costs are expected to balloon to as high as 25 percent of total GDP in the next 15 years, creating a massive competitive disadvantage for American companies vis a vis other industrialized nations, I think said some people are starting with the premise that the current system is economically unsustainable. This is of course a completely different argument than the moral question of guaranteeing insurance. Anyway, if you accept as true the idea that significant measures to control costs are needed, it is reasonable to demand more than criticism right? That doesn't mean you can't challenge any of the current plans without a detailed alternative I suppose, but leaving things as they are doesn't seem like a serious choice.

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

I think everyone wants to see a "detailed plan", I think it is fair to ask of both sides. Sadly, politicians, and political discourse in general, is now much more of The Other Plan Wont Work, so Use Ours. and then you proceed to point out all the errors in the other plan. Why? because getting a lot of people to agree that a specific idea is a bad idea is easier, than getting a lot of people to agree that specific idea is the right, or best, idea.
Interestingly enough, the opposite is kind of true for platform speeches: it is easier to write a general all inclusive platform that everyone can agree on, than it is to write a platform that contains a real plan that can then be attacked.

Yes I know this an obvious post.

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

[quote=djnemo65;593337]Well given that health care costs are expected to balloon to as high as 25 percent of total GDP in the next 15 years, creating a massive competitive disadvantage for American companies vis a vis other industrialized nations, I think said some people are starting with the premise that the current system is economically unsustainable. This is of course a completely different argument than the moral question of guaranteeing insurance. Anyway, if you accept as true the idea that significant measures to control costs are needed, it is reasonable to demand more than criticism right? That doesn't mean you can't challenge any of the current plans without a detailed alternative I suppose, but leaving things as they are doesn't seem like a serious choice.[/quote]

Not sure if you saw the last Presidents address but if you remember that when he mentioned that the rep. have not helped several help up their plans they have proposed but ignored. From what I have read the dems have also rejected all or most of any of the rep. amendments to the proposed bills. Where did you get the number that health care could hit 25% of total GDP in 15 years?

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

[quote=firstdown;593481]Not sure if you saw the last Presidents address but if you remember that when he mentioned that the rep. have not helped several help up their plans they have proposed but ignored. From what I have read the dems have also rejected all or most of any of the rep. amendments to the proposed bills. Where did you get the number that health care could hit 25% of total GDP in 15 years?[/quote]

[url=http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/87xx/doc8758/MainText.3.1.shtml]The Long-Term Outlook for Health Care Spending[/url]

Did you try google? It's a widely reported figure.

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

[quote=djnemo65;594001][URL="http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/87xx/doc8758/MainText.3.1.shtml"]The Long-Term Outlook for Health Care Spending[/URL]

Did you try google? It's a widely reported figure.[/quote]

So that report also shows that federal spending on Medicare and Medicaid will also jump just like private ins. So if the goverment cannot control spending on Medicare and Medicaid why would we now assume that they are going to be able to control cost in the future? Why not use the current Medicare and Medicaid program as a test program and reform them and lest see what kind of results they can achieve? If they can then show the ability to control cost with good regulation whiel providing good coverage then I'm sure more Americans would/might be willing to listen to what they are proposing instead of them trying to crame some thrown together plan on us. I have also read that Medicare and Medicaid have 50 to 75 billion in waist and fraud now, so once again why not fix that today? Everyday they wait is just more tax money going to waist and fraud and that spending would pay for itself by just the money saved and then some.

Well today they are voting on amendments to one of the bills and the dems still do not want the public to see the bill. A rep. had an amendment stating that before any votes on the bill it must be post on the internet 72 hours in advance. The amendment was rejected along party lines. Go figure.

Re: The Health Care Reform Address Thread
 

[quote=djnemo65;593337]Well given that health care costs are expected to balloon to as high as 25 percent of total GDP in the next 15 years, creating a massive competitive disadvantage for American companies vis a vis other industrialized nations, I think said some people are starting with the premise that the current system is economically unsustainable. This is of course a completely different argument than the moral question of guaranteeing insurance. Anyway, if you accept as true the idea that significant measures to control costs are needed, it is reasonable to demand more than criticism right? That doesn't mean you can't challenge any of the current plans without a detailed alternative I suppose, but leaving things as they are doesn't seem like a serious choice.[/quote]

dude you totally sound like will farrell when he answers the debate question in old school! nicely done sir.

go skins!!