Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

[quote=Ruhskins;588603]Well I'm not defending him either, honestly though for me Landry pissed me off more...he still acting like the undisciplined rookie he was committing all those personal fouls, and as I said, he seemed to be focused more on hitting Jacobs as revenge for last year than actually playing. Honestly all of the DBs were a disappointment given how they were not able to cover these young receivers.[/quote]

I agree. If he continues down this path, he will hurt this team and I would not hesitate on getting rid of his ass. I tell who is looking solid is Reed Doughty, if Landry and D. Hall only had his brain.

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

Then you have the Blache problem, which is: ignore anything that suggests that DeAngelo Hall might not be the next coming of Deion Sanders, and continue to treat him like a shutdown corner with no safety help.

The combination has the potential to be a complete disaster, but on a team with a G.M. who thought Hall and Devin Thomas to both be good gambles over the last two years, figured that Jason Taylor could just play wherever, and was beyond convinced that the non-existent quarterback problem was more important than the offensive line issue, is it really all that surprising that we have the school janitor captaining the Titanic?

We really do have a lot of great players on this defense. The middle linebacker, the defensive tackle, one of the corners, and one of our defensive ends are well above average NFL talents. And save Haynesworth: they were all Grilliams' pickups.

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;588610]I agree. If he continues down this path, he will hurt this team and I would not hesitate on getting rid of his ass.[B] I tell who is looking solid is Reed Doughty, if Landry and D. Hall only had his brain[/B].[/quote]

They would be Pro Bowl players!

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

[quote=GTripp0012;588615][B]Then you have the Blache problem, which is: ignore anything that suggests that DeAngelo Hall might not be the next coming of Deion Sanders, and continue to treat him like a shutdown corner with no safety help.[/B]

The combination has the potential to be a complete disaster, but on a team with a G.M. who thought Hall and Devin Thomas to both be good gambles over the last two years, figured that Jason Taylor could just play wherever, and was beyond convinced that the non-existent quarterback problem was more important than the offensive line issue, is it really all that surprising that we have the school janitor captaining the Titanic?

We really do have a lot of great players on this defense. The middle linebacker, the defensive tackle, one of the corners, and one of our defensive ends are well above average NFL talents. And save Haynesworth: they were all Grilliams' pickups.[/quote]

You know what is funny is Blache said after the game that he knew the Giants were going to Smith (I think he said Smith) and he made a call for Hall to have help and then got greedy and changed his call and left Hall hanging. Of course Hall got beat. I'm really not sure what to think about this. ????

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

[quote=GTripp0012;588615]Then you have the Blache problem, which is: ignore anything that suggests that DeAngelo Hall might not be the next coming of Deion Sanders, and continue to treat him like a shutdown corner with no safety help.

The combination has the potential to be a complete disaster, but on a team with a G.M. who thought Hall and Devin Thomas to both be good gambles over the last two years, figured that Jason Taylor could just play wherever, and was beyond convinced that the non-existent quarterback problem was more important than the offensive line issue, is it really all that surprising that we have the school janitor captaining the Titanic?

We really do have a lot of great players on this defense. The middle linebacker, the defensive tackle, one of the corners, and one of our defensive ends are well above average NFL talents. And save Haynesworth: they were all Grilliams' pickups.[/quote]

Well Blache did admit the mistake of leaving Hall in single coverage against Smith (to put another guy up front). I think it's a work in progress and still hope Blache has a schematic epiphany.

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

[quote=The Goat;588626]Well Blache did admit the mistake of leaving Hall in single coverage against Smith (to put another guy up front). I think it's a work in progress and still hope Blache has a schematic epiphany.[/quote]I'll be waiting by the bus stop in the rain.

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;588610]I agree. If he continues down this path, he will hurt this team and I would not hesitate on getting rid of his ass. I tell who is looking solid is Reed Doughty, if Landry and D. Hall only had his brain.[/quote]

Thank you, thank you very much.

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Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

I thought Hall looked pretty bad. Steve Smith? Wow. made him look like Steve Smith of the Panthers. Giants are a really tought team to beat, especially at home.
I do think we looked better than last year, though. The O-line held up as best it could I thought against the Giants D-line, and how about that no-huddle? We could only pad our stats at that point, but what the heck. we looked alright.

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

the one thing that is for sure, and GTripp called it. Smoot shouldn't be in the NFL. he brings absolutely nothing to the table. at least with Hall, you get a turnover every once in a while

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;588606]I go back to his 5 year history. He's an over rated prima donna, should have kept Springs. I've seen this guy get burned and taunt opposing WR's, commit personal fouls over the last 5 years (nothing has changed, maybe he's acting less cocky) and kill his teams. Did you notice when he made the interception that instead of getting out of bounds he wanted to take it to the house and risk a fumble?[/quote]

Springs can't stay on the field though. He's always hurt, he's old and makes a lot of money. Sorry but he just wasn't worth the money even though he was our best corner. It was time to move on.

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;588504]And what was Vinny smoking when they signed him for $22.5 Mil guaranteed money. Very bad investment, add another one to the list.[/quote]

Let's give him a full year in this defense before we judge the guy. I know he's over hyped in all but it's one game.

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

[quote=skinsfan69;588807]Let's give him a full year in this defense before we judge the guy. I know he's over hyped in all but it's one game.[/quote]

He's had 3 teams and 5 years to prove it and he's still doing the same. I can guarantee you will be in for disappointment.

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;588606]I go back to his 5 year history. He's an over rated prima donna, should have kept Springs. I've seen this guy get burned and taunt opposing WR's, commit personal fouls over the last 5 years (nothing has changed, maybe he's acting less cocky) and kill his teams. [B][I]Did you notice when he made the interception that instead of getting out of bounds he wanted to take it to the house and risk a fumble?[/I][/B][/quote]So he gets a turnover deep in the opponents end of the field and he tried to score!?!? WTF was he thinking?!?!? Of course football protocol calls for a defending player to sprint towards the sideline when you get a turnover!

C'mon, really?? Stuff like this just convinces me that some fans are more worried about their personal agenda and biases than actually discussing football.

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;588812]He's had 3 teams and 5 years to prove it and he's still doing the same. I can guarantee you will be in for disappointment.[/quote]
Hall is what he is, a decent (not elite, not superstar) CB. He's going to do some bad things (missed tackle on Manningham, whiff on the jam on Smith) but he's also going to get his hands on the ball and when he does he actually catches it! To me, that puts him above Rogers. Springs was never healthy nor did he give any indication (he's ALREADY hurt in NE) that he was going to be. Talk about a prima donna? Springs only plays when he is at or near 100%. He never played hurt. That's more damaging to a team than a player who is maybe a slightly lesser talent but still out there every play.

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

[quote=skinsfan69;588807]Let's give him a full year in this defense before we judge the guy. I know he's over hyped in all but it's one game.[/quote]

it is just 1 game, BUT it was 1 game where he was guarding a very young, unestablished, WR corp and he was unable to stop them. That is no what you should get for 54 million. He really was terrible- but he can catch. The fact is that we are so starved for turnovers that we fell in love with a CB that can catch. Lets hope this is an anomaly. go skins

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

[quote=BrunellMVP?;588840]it is just 1 game, BUT it was 1 game where he was guarding a very young, unestablished, WR corp and he was unable to stop them. That is no what you should get for 54 million. He really was terrible- but he can catch. The fact is that we are so starved for turnovers that we fell in love with a CB that can catch. Lets hope this is an anomaly. go skins[/quote]

You have a point, he can catch. He should be coverted into a WR, I'm down for that.

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

I'm going to give him more than one game. But, even before this game any football fan should know that Hall has been overrated, struggles sometimes in pass defense (not good for a cb), but it a great returnman once he get's some int's. And he does get ints. So he's an above average-slightly above average cb. Hope he proves me wrong but it is what it is.

I'm not downing on the guy-he had a bad game-but let's not think we've got a shut down corner just b/c we over paid the guy.

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

[quote=The Goat;588609]I dunno. Landry is overall a bigger disappointment for me than Hall (talking big picture here). Landry doesn't even try to lay the wood on anyone unless they're already out of bounce or otherwise have nothing to do w/ the play. It's extremely odd. All in all he's not a dominant free safety. Maybe he can be an average SS but we've already got one of those.[/quote]

We totally over rate Landry on this board...and I am guilty of it at times as well. His play has never earned the status that redskins fans have given him.

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

[quote=skinsfan69;588799]Springs can't stay on the field though. He's always hurt, he's old and makes a lot of money. Sorry but he just wasn't worth the money even though he was our best corner. It was time to move on.[/quote]I ultimately agree. While Springs at age 34 is probably better than Hall still, we would just be delaying the inevitable by keeping him around.

So here's the question: if this problem gets worse before it gets better, will Blache have the balls to bench Hall for Kevin Barnes like he would with Rocky Mac, Carlos Rogers, or Chris Horton? Because to this point, all he has done is go out of the way to take the blame for Hall's bad plays while he throws lesser-paid players under the bus after putting them in bad situations.

All I've seen since Hall came on board is 2 wins, 7 losses, and a whole bunch of excuses (as well as a well played ball here or there). But the excuses aren't coming from Hall. They're coming from the coordinator.

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

[quote=celts32;588929]We totally over rate Landry on this board...and I am guilty of it at times as well. His play has never earned the status that redskins fans have given him.[/quote]

Couldn't have said that better. LL is a mediocre safety at this point. He has the ability to become a very good one.

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

I am certain that Hall is worse than Springs and that our D will get burned more than a few times because of it, but I also think he has a better knack for being around the ball and making that big play. I hope our offense becomes more adept at taking advantage of the situation.

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

[quote=celts32;588929]We totally over rate Landry on this board...and I am guilty of it at times as well. His play has never earned the status that redskins fans have given him.[/quote]

i dont think i agree with this. landry and his sideline to sideline cover skills freed horton up to play near the ball last year, making horton an impact player with stats while landry had to sacrifice stats to cover everyones behind last year.

im strating to think I would rather have landry play closer to the ball at SS but i dont trust any other safeties to come in and be able to do what landry gives us now. he was headhuntin last night, no doubt his emotion and drive to lay out some punishment caused him to take some poor angels but landry sacrifices alot of personal stats and glory for the sake of the team defense. at least last year . .

go skins!!

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

[quote=Paintrain;588830]Hall is what he is, a decent (not elite, not superstar) CB. He's going to do some bad things (missed tackle on Manningham, whiff on the jam on Smith) but he's also going to get his hands on the ball and when he does he actually catches it! [b]To me, that puts him above Rogers[/b]. Springs was never healthy nor did he give any indication (he's ALREADY hurt in NE) that he was going to be. Talk about a prima donna? Springs only plays when he is at or near 100%. He never played hurt. That's more damaging to a team than a player who is maybe a slightly lesser talent but still out there every play.[/quote]

You may be in line for a coordinator and/or front office position with the Redskins.

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

[quote=celts32;588929]We totally over rate Landry on this board...and I am guilty of it at times as well. His play has never earned the status that redskins fans have given him.[/quote]

Definitely agree with that. And we need Hall on our defense because he seems to be our only threat to make a play (talking about the D Backs specifically). For all his faults, I have faith that he'll get an interception every time I see him out on defense. Rogers, on the other hand, who I think is a very efficient DB is never a threat to get an INT. And we need turnovers. So if Rogers can lock down one side and Hall can get me the INTs on the other side, I'm fine with that.

Springs could do both, but it's not 2004 anymore.

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

[quote=Coff;588173]How do you start a new thread? I'm trying to start one about positives from this game, but I can't figure out how. ARGHHHHH![/quote]


Sure to be a very quick read.

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

[quote=70Chip;588119]This guy is an absolute disaster. No physicality and got beat on the Giants last drive. Brandon lloyd + [B]Leigh Torrance[/B] = Huge waste of money. Cerrato SHOULD be at the end of the line. His radio show alone merits dismissal. Offensive coordinators around the league will be licking their chops when they see how chumpish Hall is. It's exasperating.[/quote]

What do you got against Leigh?

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

other then he cant play in this league?

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

CLEAN HOUSE NOW!!!!!

I dont need to see anymore of JC, Vinny, Zorn.

JC is a coward!! Checks off to a run up the middle on a 3rd n 8' wheres ya balls sonny??? talk about giving up.

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

[quote=dmek25;588989]other then he cant play in this league?[/quote]

Leigh can play better then Tyron, though that isnt say much.

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

[quote=MCWHITEY;588993]CLEAN HOUSE NOW!!!!!

I dont need to see anymore of JC, Vinny, Zorn.

JC is a coward!! Checks off to a run up the middle on a 3rd n 8' wheres ya balls sonny??? talk about giving up.[/quote]

Solid solution. Start over on September 14th.

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

Based on comments here, I wish I knew how to start a poll. Here would be my question:


Who is the worst tackling cornerback in the history of football:


A. Deangelo Hall

B. Fred Smoot

C. Deion Sanders

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

Who would be up for brining Shanahan in right now?

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

I will stand by this secondary. All of them are willing tacklers and no one looked good yesterday. Hall went to VA tech where run support is emphasized. Smoot shirked early in his career but hits hard. Rogers is physical as are the safeties. MANY corners are cowards in run support. I dont see any on this team.

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;588982]You may be in line for a coordinator and/or front office position with the Redskins.[/quote]

I don't think there is a huge gap in coverage ability between Rogers and Hall. Where the difference is clear is when the ball is in the air. Rogers hands turn into skillets while Hall can catch. Taking the ball away is more valuable than knocking it down. Corners get beat, what do they do to offset them getting beat is what makes them who they are. Rogers dropped an INT on the first possession yesterday, AGAIN. Give me a corner who can catch over one that cannot all day every day.

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

[quote=Paintrain;589187]I don't think there is a huge gap in coverage ability between Rogers and Hall. Where the difference is clear is when the ball is in the air. Rogers hands turn into skillets while Hall can catch. Taking the ball away is more valuable than knocking it down. Corners get beat, what do they do to offset them getting beat is what makes them who they are. Rogers dropped an INT on the first possession yesterday, AGAIN. Give me a corner who can catch over one that cannot all day every day.[/quote]

No sir! Bat that ball down. I'd rather have a shut down guy than a guy who gets beat for TDs, but comes up with an occasional INT.

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

[quote=Paintrain;589187][B]I don't think there is a huge gap in coverage ability between Rogers and Hall.[/B] Where the difference is clear is when the ball is in the air. Rogers hands turn into skillets while Hall can catch. Taking the ball away is more valuable than knocking it down. Corners get beat, what do they do to offset them getting beat is what makes them who they are. Rogers dropped an INT on the first possession yesterday, AGAIN. Give me a corner who can catch over one that cannot all day every day.[/quote]There's about 8 different numbers I could cite to suggest otherwise, but since we both have two eyes and understand football well, I'll just point out that over their respective careers, the average pass thrown against Rogers goes for just under two yards less than the average pass thrown at Hall (I think 6.2 for Rogers and 7.9 for Hall). How great is that difference? Probably more than a win/year.

There's obviously a limiting effect on Rogers due to the fact that he doesn't get a whole lot of balls thrown his way, and seems to drop 5 or so of the 8 catchable INTs he gets in position for, but I'm not sure I'd call Hall a playmaker either, at least not one that creates his own plays. I think he's more of the oppertunistic type.

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

I also think we're overstating the difference between Rogers, who catches 30-40% of balls that hit him in the hands, and Hall, who catches 60-80%. The difference in INTs between them is way more circumstantial than talent-related.

Hall also never picks off quarterbacks who are any good, which supports the statment above.

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

[quote=GTripp0012;589193]I also think we're overstating the difference between Rogers, who catches 30-40% of balls that hit him in the hands, and Hall, who catches 60-80%. The difference in INTs between them is way more circumstantial than talent-related.

Hall also never picks off quarterbacks who are any good, which supports the statment above.[/quote]

I think you are being a little loose with stats on this one Tripp, of course I don't have any better. Hall's best talent is his opportunistic INTS, I think he has played in 5 games for us, and has at least 3 INTs. Carlos had a ball hit in stride and in his hands and he dropped it. That said I would rather have 2 Carlos' then 2 Halls any game of the year. Carlos will not get beat (I haven't seen it in the last year). Hall will give up a lot of plays. I just wish Carlos had better hands, but I imagine having bad hands forced him to play his position better to stay ahead of those flashy guys that get INTs

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;589188]No sir! Bat that ball down. I'd rather have a shut down guy than a guy who gets beat for TDs, but comes up with an occasional INT.[/quote]

But Rogers is far from a shutdown corner. He's good, no doubt, but until last season he got toasted pretty consistently for big plays. His swagger always far exceeded his production.

He's got more excuses than interceptions. His latest: [B][I]Cornerback DeAngelo Hall(notes) confessed to having a subpar outing, and Rogers—who couldn’t get a grip on one that could have changed the game’s tone on the Giants’ first possession.

“I thought I had a shot at it, but I was facing that sun and that glare,” Rogers said.[/I][/B] So the sun was in your eyes but you got two hands on it and dropped it. Again. Interesting.

[quote=GTripp0012]There's about 8 different numbers I could cite to suggest otherwise, but since we both have two eyes and understand football well, I'll just point out that over their respective careers, the average pass thrown against Rogers goes for just under two yards less than the average pass thrown at Hall (I think 6.2 for Rogers and 7.9 for Hall). How great is that difference? Probably more than a win/year.

There's obviously a limiting effect on Rogers due to the fact that he doesn't get a whole lot of balls thrown his way, and seems to drop 5 or so of the 8 catchable INTs he gets in position for, but I'm not sure I'd call Hall a playmaker either, at least not one that creates his own plays. I think he's more of the oppertunistic type.[/quote] I think we can agree that for most of their respective careers that Hall has been on #1 WR and Rogers has been on #2 WR so you'd think the 1's are more apt to have deeper routes so that would make sense to have a higher YPA against.

I don't how you call a CB with 23 INT in 6 years not a playmaker but make excuses for one with 6 INT in 5 years. Who cares if he's the opportunistic type if he takes advantage of the opportunities. Rogers clearly does not.

Re: Another Vinny Special: Deangelo Hall
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;589196]I think you are being a little loose with stats on this one Tripp, of course I don't have any better. Hall's best talent is his opportunistic INTS, I think he has played in 5 games for us, and has at least 3 INTs. Carlos had a ball hit in stride and in his hands and he dropped it. That said I would rather have 2 Carlos' then 2 Halls any game of the year. [B]Carlos will not get beat (I haven't seen it in the last year).[/B] Hall will give up a lot of plays. I just wish Carlos had better hands, but I imagine having bad hands forced him to play his position better to stay ahead of those flashy guys that get INTs[/quote]

Did you not see the Bengals or Ravens games last year? He gave up big TD in both games. Has Hall given up a TD pass as a Redskin in the regular season?