Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=SmootSmack;589257]LOL. Fair enough...as long as people stop using the term "real football guy" as in "We need a real football guy running the front office" I will also accept "Guy who knows football." This has replaced the inevitable "real General Manager."[/quote]

I take personal offense to that. The ink isn't even dry on my "real football guy" post and you're in here launching broadsides.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=70Chip;589260]I take personal offense to that. The ink isn't even dry on my "real football guy" post and you're in here launching broadsides.[/quote]

There were others before you today (and, of course, before today), you were merely the icing on the cake

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

Not at all surprised at the folks hitting the panic button after the first game. Just like last year, the mob was ready to lynch Zorn & Campbell following the Gints defeat.

I am optimistic about the season. JC showed me that he can move the ball, consistently and more than 7 yards. I knew ARE would excel in the slot but yesterday was a pleasant surprise. JC just has to spread the ball more, they doubled Moss so I'm sure Kelly could use some love. JC also looked good last year in the shotgun, and I hope Zorn calls a bit more passing plays, I feel JC can improve his game as we go along.

Our tackling is on & off. We seem to make great stops or spot tackles at times and look like a bunch of poofters trying to catch a slippery eel on another. However, I take my hat off to Fletcher - the guy is the epitome of a 'tackling machine'. Landry, Carter, Smoot and Hall should take some of their salary and pay that man for doing their jobs for them.

Hunter the punter. I thought his first punt was BS, 38 yards but I realise you need hang time to allow your chasers to get there, Thanks to him, Hixon was nullified yesterday. Shuisham kick offs I though were terrible. Kicking to the 13 or 15 yd line is giving the the returner a great headstart so even if its just a 20yd run, they are in good field position!

Another thing I'm glad about is how we bottled up Jacobs. He can run all over the Eagles, Cowboys etc... but against us, he is going nowhere.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

Has anyone today discussed two Santana Moss plays that were very very confusing.

The first play was the failed Randel El pass play. The replays clearly show Moss running 3/4 speed and very tentative in his route. The second play in question was the one deep throw of the day. Once again the replay reveals Moss running 3/4 speed and this time he just looks like he has no real interest in the evolution of the play itself.

What gives?

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=wilsowilso;589298]Has anyone today discussed two Santana Moss plays that were very very confusing.

The first play was the failed Randel El pass play. The replays clearly show Moss running 3/4 speed and very tentative in his route. The second play in question was the one deep throw of the day. Once again the replay reveals Moss running 3/4 speed and this time he just looks like he has no real interest in the evolution of the play itself.

What gives?[/quote]

Very disappointed in Moss yesterday. Half assed on a couple of routes as you mentioned. Actually on he second one, it looked like he and Campbell simply weren't on the same page (which is pretty inexcusable at this point in their time together). And he basically let his own personal agenda with Webster get in the way of leading the team.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

I root for Jim Zorn to do well because he is the coach of the Redskins. He wouldn't have been my choice considering the final candidates but that's in the past. It's Zorn now and I will hope that he improves as a head coach. But that includes how he handles himself off the field.

And I'm going to have bring him the pain for his comments in today's press conference. Whether you believe it's the players' fault or not, you cannot expect to earn their trust if you continuously lay the blame on them and fail to recognize your own faults. As the late, great Bill Walsh would say "When you point your finger at someone, remember that three fingers are pointing back at you."

Zorn's answers here were a bit disappointing. Especially on the ARE play. I agree with him that ARE should have thrown it away, but you don't say that.

[url=http://www.redskins.com/mobile/Zorn___We_Will_Improve__I_Believe_That__51135.jsp]Washington Redskins Mobile[/url]

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=SmootSmack;589302]I root for Jim Zorn to do well because he is the coach of the Redskins. He wouldn't have been my choice considering the final candidates but that's in the past. It's Zorn now and I will hope that he improves as a head coach. But that includes how he handles himself off the field.

And I'm going to have bring him the pain for his comments in today's press conference. Whether you believe it's the players' fault or not, you cannot expect to earn their trust if you continuously lay the blame on them and fail to recognize your own faults. As the late, great Bill Walsh would say "When you point your finger at someone, remember that three fingers are pointing back at you."
[B]
Zorn's answers here were a bit disappointing.[/B] Especially on the ARE play. I agree with him that ARE should have thrown it away, but you don't say that.

[URL="http://www.redskins.com/mobile/Zorn___We_Will_Improve__I_Believe_That__51135.jsp"]Washington Redskins Mobile[/URL][/quote]

Agreed. Maybe he's so hyper-aware of how hot his seat is, that he is scared to publicly take blame. I'd love to hear him say he called a flat out lousy game, because he did and everyone knows it.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

Zorn stood by the call--so I'm not sure what else there is to say. I didn't think it was so bad, given down and distance--if it hits, it's bold. But ARE CANNOT take a sack there. Toss it the fuck out of bound, 2nd 10, still FG range, etc. Instead it's 2nd and 20.

I think Zorn calling out players (if you want to call it that) is fine--too little of that, IMO.

Zorn's pretty candid about stuff, and I've never been so into that it's all my fault coach speak. Whatever. Just call good plays and execute, and win some games. Then we won't have this stupid problem about how to best take the blame for our fuck ups.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=JWsleep;589539]Zorn stood by the call--so I'm not sure what else there is to say. I didn't think it was so bad, given down and distance--if it hits, it's bold. But ARE CANNOT take a sack there. Toss it the fuck out of bound, 2nd 10, still FG range, etc. Instead it's 2nd and 20.

I think Zorn calling out players (if you want to call it that) is fine--too little of that, IMO.

Zorn's pretty candid about stuff, and I've never been so into that it's all my fault coach speak. Whatever. Just call good plays and execute, and win some games. Then we won't have this stupid problem about how to best take the blame for our fuck ups.[/quote]

Yeah but players want to hear from coaches sometime "Hey it was my fault," or "I'm just as much to blame" Something along those lines. Just to show the blame is universal (for lack of a better term)

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I definitely think ARE handled the play poorly. But I also think Zorn could have handled the response a bit better.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=wilsowilso;589298]Has anyone today discussed two Santana Moss plays that were very very confusing.

The first play was the failed Randel El pass play. The replays clearly show Moss running 3/4 speed and very tentative in his route. The second play in question was the one deep throw of the day. Once again the replay reveals Moss running 3/4 speed and this time he just looks like he has no real interest in the evolution of the play itself.

What gives?[/quote]

i didnt record the game so i cant go back and see. unless moss has a reporter ask him the question i dont think we will have an answer.

but last year, moss "gave up" on a deep route, JC threw a good ball but since moss thought the play was dead or wasnt going to him he stopped running the route at 100%. im pretty sure that led to an int. cant find a link to it now.

in the seattle playoff game moss had this to say regarding him "giving up" on a deep route on a play he thought was dead that led to an int:

"Collins … finally had a pass land in the other team’s hands. When receiver Moss gave up on a route deep down the right sideline, Marcus Trufant easily hauled in the ball and returned it 78 yards for a score.
â€[B]œI thought it was a dead play[/B],â€� Moss said. â€[B]œThen, all of a sudden I look up and the guy is catching it like a punt. You hate to be in a situation where the ball is coming and you don’t even know it[/B].â€�

im guessin since we dont take many shots down the field and JC usually doesnt have all day to sit in the pocket, moss just assumes the ball is never gonna be thrown his way on deep routes . . .or JC just doesnt actually throw the long ball when its called . . . this is becoming a pattern. i will not regurgitate my personal opinion on how moss views this organization and its play calling but hes been here for awhile, has seen new HC and off coord come and go and one thing stays the same . . . moss doesnt trust our coachign staff or the people that hire the coaching staff.

go skins!!

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

heres more moss and JC:

from giants skins opener last year

Wide receiver Santana Moss was in single coverage with young cornerback Aaron Ross, and beat him cleanly on a go route down the right sideline. But Campbell waited too long to deliver the throw after avoiding a pass rush, and the pass fell incomplete. Moss gave up on the route, believing Campbell had been sacked (an assumption that also hurt the Redskins in their playoff loss to Seattle in January). ....The failure of that play was not on Campbell alone, said Moss, who acknowledged he eased up prematurely. "It's on all of us," Moss said. "The play usually develops a little quicker than that, and that was one of my reasons for slowing down, because I'm running forever. I kind of looked back and the ball wasn't there, so I thought something happened. But he got pressured. You could see, clear as day, he got pressured.

"He had to do a little something different. When that happens, a play like that will [break down] like that. We couldn't get out of the play what we thought we could get out of it once he got pressured. He still got a chance to throw it down the field, but by that time I had slowed down and it gave the other guy [Ross] a chance to catch up. It happens like that sometimes. I'm pretty sure that if he didn't get the pressure, you probably wouldn't be talking about the play like that."

i could go on . . .

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

One thing that everyone forgets is - just because there aren't many deep balls thrown doesn't mean that the passing plays with deep routes are not called. It could be one reason or another why a pass is not attempted deep, but I would think the deep passing plays are being called.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=warriorzpath;589562]One thing that everyone forgets is - just because there aren't many deep balls thrown doesn't mean that the passing plays with deep routes are not called. It could be one reason or another why a pass is not attempted deep, but I would think the deep passing plays are being called.[/quote]

Campbell said he was trying to go downfield on the sack-fumble, but ended up holding it too long because there was nothing there and he was waiting on his check down.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=Mattyk72;588727]Here's why I'm not freaking out, check the schedule for the next 5 weeks

9/20 St. Louis
9/27 at Detroit
10/4 Tampa Bay
10/11 at Carolina
10/18 Kansas City[/quote]

I totally agree it's a waist of time to start freaking out, but it's kinda hard not to. I mean last yr we had a whole new offensive shceme, HC, etc.. etc.. We kinda figured we would lose the first game. Hell we even figured the season might not look good. We lose our first game and it's exactly what we expected. After that we go 6-2...suprise, suprise. We look awsome to only go 2-6 the second half of the season and end up 8-8.

Many ideas were shopped as to why that happened. Some say:

1) JC sucks.
2) Zorn is over his head.
3) Limited plays last yr. (50)
4) O-line injuries.
5) Only one decent WR.
6) DS.

I like many of you find it hard to believe JC sucks cause he did so well during the first half of the season. Zorn may be over his head but it didn't show in the first 8 games. DS tries to always make the team better but Cerrato is terrible at evaluating Vets. Maybe AH will change that. So I bought into the "limited plays", "O-line injuries", and "Only one decent WR" comments. Hook line and sinker. We have a healthy O-line and some decent back ups. We coached up Kelly, Thomas, and Mitchell so that can no longer be an issue. and...supposedly we have over 130 to 180 plays to pick from. All issues appeared to be resolved.

Until Sunday against the Giants. JC's favorite go to WR Moss was taken out of the game, and instead of finding a way to get Kelly the ball or Thomas he went to ARE (who did well I think) and Cooley. I guess there is still some trust issues with Kelly and Thomas. He then tries to force the issue (pass to Moss) in double or tripple coverage cause he trusts him so much and it turns out to be Giants interception. I think Moss was fouled by the way.

Then there is the 130-180 plays the team is supposed to know. Where were they? I mean it's not rocket science. The Steelers, Giants, Ravens, Titans, Eagles and some others all have big D-lines. Which means you have to game plan around them. In other words get the RB's out beyond the line of scrimage and pass the ball to them. Give them the ball in space. Instead we handed off in hopes Portis would find a whole. We would throw to the RB in the flat who was on the same yrd marker as the QB who was 7-10yrds behind the line of scrimage. Oh they ran 10yrds but only gained 1 or 2. I'm still left wondering where the other 120-170 plays are?

I'll say it again. Talent wise the Skins are the better team. The Giants physically man handled the Skins and the Skins let them. No different in hockey, if your playing a better team you have to take them out of the game by getting them flustered to make mistakes. Usually done by being physical. The Skins were taken out of the game from the Landry play. Oh they had their chances but kept tripping over themselves trying to get even or trying to make a play. Piss poor tackling.

I can honestly say I did think the Skins were the better team. and still do. I know it was an away game in which it's hard to win in those conditions with the crowd noise, but I felt we could pull it off. Now I'm left wondering what kinda team we do have? Was it to strong teams battling it out? or two mediocre teams battling it out?

[B]St. Louis...[/B]should be a gimme. It depends on which Skins show up.
[B]Detroit...[/B]are better then last yr and we had difficult with them.
[B]Tampa Bay...[/B]I thought they would suck. They gave Dallas a run for their money. So who are they? was it 2 bad teams playing each other scoring over 20 points each or 2 mediocre teams battling it out? We may be in trouble.
[B]Carolina....[/B]I expected them to be pretty good and give the Eagle a hard time. Instead they laid down like dogs.
[B]KC...[/B]I figured would suck but were able to put up over 20 points on the Ravens.

Zorn better find a way to get JC's head in the game and open it up or we might as well look to another 8-8 season cause JC can't, won't, or is too scared to spread the ball around to all of our offensive weapons in an attempt to score more then 20-30 points. Not sure exactly who's fault it is....JC, Zorn play calling, WR's failing to seperate and route running, O-line blocking, Piss poor planning or what but someone needs to get their heads out of their ass. I am tired of seeing the typical SSDD coming out of Redskins Park. So if we scuttle every thing after this yr please, please, please dump everything and call it rebuilding. Don't keep a coach here or a coach there (especially Hixon), Bring in the HC and give him the reigns. Tell him to have at it. Let him pick his staff, his QB, his offensive scheme, and so on.

Sorry for ranting. I was extremely dissappointed the other night. I was expecting a better showing. I was exited for the better showing and instead my parade was rained on. I'm usually a glass half full type of guy. but this cup of milk that was dished out Sunday was bitter. Again I apologize for ranting. Sorry for having put my 2 cents in threads meant to be positive. I don't even want to speak with co-workers about the game cause I'm still pissed at how we showed up. The only thing that will change this would be for the Skins to blow out the Rams. It's too expensive for me to go but I hope those who do make some noise and make yourselves heard. and save some for the Giants at the end of the yr.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=SBXVII;589583]I totally agree it's a waist of time to start freaking out, but it's kinda hard not to. I mean last yr we had a whole new offensive shceme, HC, etc.. etc.. We kinda figured we would lose the first game. Hell we even figured the season might not look good. We lose our first game and it's exactly what we expected. After that we go 6-2...suprise, suprise. We look awsome to only go 2-6 the second half of the season and end up 8-8.

Many ideas were shopped as to why that happened. Some say:

1) JC sucks.
2) Zorn is over his head.
3) Limited plays last yr. (50)
4) O-line injuries.
5) Only one decent WR.
6) DS.

I like many of you find it hard to believe JC sucks cause he did so well during the first half of the season. Zorn may be over his head but it didn't show in the first 8 games. DS tries to always make the team better but Cerrato is terrible at evaluating Vets. Maybe AH will change that. So I bought into the "limited plays", "O-line injuries", and "Only one decent WR" comments. Hook line and sinker. We have a healthy O-line and some decent back ups. We coached up Kelly, Thomas, and Mitchell so that can no longer be an issue. and...supposedly we have over 130 to 180 plays to pick from. All issues appeared to be resolved.

Until Sunday against the Giants. JC's favorite go to WR Moss was taken out of the game, and instead of finding a way to get Kelly the ball or Thomas he went to ARE (who did well I think) and Cooley. I guess there is still some trust issues with Kelly and Thomas. He then tries to force the issue (pass to Moss) in double or tripple coverage cause he trusts him so much and it turns out to be Giants interception. I think Moss was fouled by the way.

Then there is the 130-180 plays the team is supposed to know. Where were they? I mean it's not rocket science. The Steelers, Giants, Ravens, Titans, Eagles and some others all have big D-lines. Which means you have to game plan around them. In other words get the RB's out beyond the line of scrimage and pass the ball to them. Give them the ball in space. Instead we handed off in hopes Portis would find a whole. We would throw to the RB in the flat who was on the same yrd marker as the QB who was 7-10yrds behind the line of scrimage. Oh they ran 10yrds but only gained 1 or 2. I'm still left wondering where the other 120-170 plays are?

I'll say it again. Talent wise the Skins are the better team. The Giants physically man handled the Skins and the Skins let them. No different in hockey, if your playing a better team you have to take them out of the game by getting them flustered to make mistakes. Usually done by being physical. The Skins were taken out of the game from the Landry play. Oh they had their chances but kept tripping over themselves trying to get even or trying to make a play. Piss poor tackling.

I can honestly say I did think the Skins were the better team. and still do. I know it was an away game in which it's hard to win in those conditions with the crowd noise, but I felt we could pull it off. Now I'm left wondering what kinda team we do have? Was it to strong teams battling it out? or two mediocre teams battling it out?

[B]St. Louis...[/B]should be a gimme. It depends on which Skins show up.
[B]Detroit...[/B]are better then last yr and we had difficult with them.
[B]Tampa Bay...[/B]I thought they would suck. They gave Dallas a run for their money. So who are they? was it 2 bad teams playing each other scoring over 20 points each or 2 mediocre teams battling it out? We may be in trouble.
[B]Carolina....[/B]I expected them to be pretty good and give the Eagle a hard time. Instead they laid down like dogs.
[B]KC...[/B]I figured would suck but were able to put up over 20 points on the Ravens.

Zorn better find a way to get JC's head in the game and open it up or we might as well look to another 8-8 season cause JC can't, won't, or is too scared to spread the ball around to all of our offensive weapons in an attempt to score more then 20-30 points. Not sure exactly who's fault it is....JC, Zorn play calling, WR's failing to seperate and route running, O-line blocking, Piss poor planning or what but someone needs to get their heads out of their ass. I am tired of seeing the typical SSDD coming out of Redskins Park. So if we scuttle every thing after this yr please, please, please dump everything and call it rebuilding. Don't keep a coach here or a coach there (especially Hixon), Bring in the HC and give him the reigns. Tell him to have at it. Let him pick his staff, his QB, his offensive scheme, and so on.

Sorry for ranting. I was extremely dissappointed the other night. I was expecting a better showing. I was exited for the better showing and instead my parade was rained on. I'm usually a glass half full type of guy. but this cup of milk that was dished out Sunday was bitter. Again I apologize for ranting. Sorry for having put my 2 cents in threads meant to be positive. I don't even want to speak with co-workers about the game cause I'm still pissed at how we showed up. The only thing that will change this would be for the Skins to blow out the Rams. It's too expensive for me to go but I hope those who do make some noise and make yourselves heard. and save some for the Giants at the end of the yr.[/quote]

I agree.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;589606]I agree.[/quote]

I give you credit for even reading that

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=Mattyk72;589624]I give you credit for even reading that[/quote]

My IQ didn't drop, just my expectations.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=Mattyk72;589624]I give you credit for even reading that[/quote]

As long and inconvenient as it is ....I really do like fig newtons. ;)

He probably just agreed to make me happy. but if he did. Thanks.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=wilsowilso;589298]Has anyone today discussed two Santana Moss plays that were very very confusing.

The first play was the failed Randel El pass play. The replays clearly show Moss running 3/4 speed and very tentative in his route. The second play in question was the one deep throw of the day. Once again the replay reveals Moss running 3/4 speed and this time he just looks like he has no real interest in the evolution of the play itself.

What gives?[/quote]


On that trick play he has to sell run to try to get his man to bite which MAY explain his apparent loafing. The truth is he's had maybe one good game and one decent game against New York since he's been here and the rest have been clunkers. I expect him to bounce back next week.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

Here's the other thing about the trick play with Randle El -- by now, the secret is out among opposing teams that if ARE gets a reverse or he gets the ball in the backfield, assume it's a pass. He's been in on those plays since his days in Pittsburgh.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=Beemnseven;589837]Here's the other thing about the trick play with Randle El -- by now, the secret is out among opposing teams that if ARE gets a reverse or he gets the ball in the backfield, assume it's a pass. He's been in on those plays since his days in Pittsburgh.[/quote]

We need to stop pretending it is 04. ARE sucks at PR, KR and throws. He waits too long, tries to make too much happen, etc. I am done with ARE anywhere beside receiving. And that comes with caveats too.

Just throw quick slot passes to him and he can be a 1000yd receiver this year.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

And despite doing a great job in the slot, ARE really did F it up for me us on the reverse. Just throw it away. Even though he almost had 100 yds, none were game changers.

The loss of yards on the reverse was huge. We just had an almost 40 yard run. Momentum was going, we answers the g-men, and BAM typical ARE fuck up.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

Is it my imagination, or is ARE afraid to get hit? It seems like he drops and rolls up fetal when a possible collision presents itself.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=Hog1;589860]Is it my imagination, or is ARE afraid to get hit? It seems like he drops and rolls up fetal when a possible collision presents itself.[/quote]

He still thinks he's a QB. Old habits die hard. :)

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=warriorzpath;589562]One thing that everyone forgets is - just because there aren't many deep balls thrown doesn't mean that the passing plays with deep routes are not called. It could be one reason or another why a pass is not attempted deep, but I would think the deep passing plays are being called.[/quote]

Last year I noticed on many pass completions there [B]seemed [/B]to be a deeper option that was just as open or even more open than the receiver that was thrown to. I emphasize "seemed" because I am no expert. Just an observation.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=Hog1;589860]Is it my imagination, or is ARE afraid to get hit? It seems like he drops and rolls up fetal when a possible collision presents itself.[/quote]

As long as he gets a first down, that's cool with me. Maybe Santana can take notes.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=Beemnseven;589837]Here's the other thing about the trick play with Randle El -- by now, the secret is out among opposing teams that if ARE gets a reverse or he gets the ball in the backfield, assume it's a pass. He's been in on those plays since his days in Pittsburgh.[/quote]

Does Zorn watch these tapes of other teams and then try and plan the play calling on what he sees or does he just off the top of his head come up with these stupid ideas. Poor planning on Zorns in part I think is what is leading us to these type of poor loses. Also I get the feeling he has confidence in his team by the way he calls these plays. Let them go out there and just play good football. But time and time again he says he has the up most confidence is it all. DON'T TRULY BELIEVE THIS IS TRUE.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=Mattyk72;589624]I give you credit for even reading that[/quote]

Seriously. I gave up half way through. I think other teams should try double teaming Randy Moss, Larry F, Andre Johnson, T Owens, etc. etc., since it's so effective against Santana. I wonder why they haven't thought of trying that yet. OH, wait a minute! Because those guys play on teams that don't allow other teams to take their best receivers out of the game and use it as an excuse for not being able to produce jack on offense.

Like many have said before, teams with crappier WRs still find ways to move the ball and put it in the end zone. Campbell going 6-2 last year doesn't make him good. Jeff Garcia did it for the Eagles, but he' still not a starter. Vince Young has a great record as a starter, but he's a backup. Hell, didn't Marty find a way to string some wins together with Tony Banks as his QB?

The Skins were down 17 points and didn't even get through their 15 scripted plays until the third quarter. And for homers like Larry Michael to keep talking about how the game came down to 4 or 5 plays and for Jason Reid to cite Campbell's 93.6 passer rating when his stats until the last meaningless drive were dreadful (145 yards, 1 INT, 1 Fumble). The Giants never once felt threatened and were already thinking about their week 2 opponent mid-way through the 3rd quarter, if not at half-time.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=Hog1;589860]Is it my imagination, or is ARE afraid to get hit? It seems like he drops and rolls up fetal when a possible collision presents itself.[/quote]

I don't mind that actually.

He's a small receiver and his objective is basically just to sit in between two zones and take the open space given to him.

With the zone defense a defender is never too far away so he knows just to get down and move the chains for the next play. He's playing within the realm of his talents so I don't mind that he's not trucking people over after the catch.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=44Deezel;589869]Last year I noticed on many pass completions there [B]seemed [/B]to be a deeper option that was just as open or even more open than the receiver that was thrown to. I emphasize "seemed" [B]because I am no expert[/B]. Just an observation.[/quote]

G' Damnit Deezel! The season's already started! NOW you tell us!!! :)

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;589879]I don't mind that actually.

He's a small receiver and his objective is basically just to sit in between two zones and take the open space given to him.

With the zone defense a defender is never too far away so he knows just to get down and move the chains for the next play. He's playing within the realm of his talents so I don't mind that he's not trucking people over after the catch.[/quote]

Same, it might be a b%*ch move but he should play to his strengths.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=Paintrain;588217]I still think we've got 10 win talent and will go on a nice run with some lesser teams on the horizon.[/quote]
+1

Zorn playcalling was scary bad and confusing

1st down runs over and over again

The WCO is supposed to be pass 1st offense

what happened to passing to score running to win

running unsuccessfully on 1st down when its a fairly commonly held belief that 1st down is the easiest down to pass is crazy to me especially when JC was having success passing

Zorn gets a big thumbs down in game 1

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=53Fan;589030]Nice post man. We have the weapons to be a passing team...use them. Right now I have no idea what we're suppose to be.[/quote]

They weapons aren't effective if you dont have the ammo. We need to find the ammo for our weapons. Lets hope our coaches can get it right this week againt the Lams.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=JWsleep;589539]Zorn stood by the call--so I'm not sure what else there is to say. I didn't think it was so bad, given down and distance--if it hits, it's bold. But ARE CANNOT take a sack there. Toss it the fuck out of bound, 2nd 10, still FG range, etc. Instead it's 2nd and 20.

I think Zorn calling out players (if you want to call it that) is fine--too little of that, IMO.

Zorn's pretty candid about stuff, and I've never been so into that it's all my fault coach speak. Whatever. Just call good plays and execute, and win some games. Then we won't have this stupid problem about how to best take the blame for our fuck ups.[/quote]

I guess even veterans such as ARE and Hines Ward make mistakes. So this BS
that a Rookie will make mistakes should apply to every football player. Its just part of the game . Let Fred Davis get on the field and get the ball in his hands.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=SBXVII;589630]As long and inconvenient as it is ....I really do like fig newtons. ;)

He probably just agreed to make me happy. but if he did. Thanks.[/quote]

sorry I was just a little cranky there, ain't nothing wrong with fig newtons

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

Regarding the ARE botched play, I really don't have an issue with the call, but I do with the execution. ARE is a vet, he has to be smarter than that. He had plenty of time to throw the ball away. Dumb, dumb, play on his part. No excuses.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=Mattyk72;590033]Regarding the ARE botched play, I really don't have an issue with the call, but I do with the execution. ARE is a vet, he has to be smarter than that. He had plenty of time to throw the ball away. Dumb, dumb, play on his part. No excuses.[/quote]

Absolutely - Was not a fan of the call but would have been perfectly willing to jump on the bandwagon if it worked. As I was watching it, I just kept thinking, "throw it away, throw it away".

ARE is one of those guys who just frustrates me (and many others I'm sure). On one hand, I think he is a great slot/mid-range receiver who seems to have a knack for finding the open space. At the same time, once he gets the ball in his hands, he always seem to by trying to hit a home run rather than just taking the yards being given - often causing him to actually lose yards already gained. (Maybe he was one of the guy Cooley and Portis were refering to in their "just do your job" comments).

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

Hey im down here in Miami, where is everyone?

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

I dont see how you can be disappointed by losing to one of the best teams in the NFL on the road in opening game when you didnt play your best. I think we got the effort we deserved, we were no better than a B. We had two redzone stops that coulda taken us out of the game, and holding them was good to watch.

Re: 'Bring the Pain' Stepping away from the panic button, slowly
 

[quote=cdskins26;590448]I dont see how you can be disappointed by losing to one of the best teams in the NFL on the road in opening game when you didnt play your best. I think we got the effort we deserved, we were no better than a B. We had two redzone stops that coulda taken us out of the game, and holding them was good to watch.[/quote]

Who knows how good the Giants are. They could go 8-8 this year. They finished 1-3 last year.