Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;597364]Hey Tony Dungy what are you doing?[/quote]

Hey, if he could get us moving like the Colts I'm all for it, but he didn't look that way with Tampa yrs a go. I think it was his OC.

Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

[quote=cdskins26;597866]Dont be surprised when this happens. Knowing our owner, with his snydy senses tingling, Gibbs could be coach tomorrow.[/quote]


Gibbs is finito coaching dude. And if he was wise he would stick with NASCAR. The franchise is facing a major overhaul if it is going to be respectable again. You need a younger guy for that task.

Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;597854]I agree with SS. Fire Vinny and Zorn. Bring in Russ Grimm. Shit, might as well bring in Cody Grimm. Anything is better than losing to the Lions.[/quote]

Grimm and Casserly?

Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;597877]Gibbs is finito coaching dude. And if he was wise he would stick with NASCAR. The franchise is facing a major overhaul if it is going to be respectable again. You need a younger guy for that task.[/quote]

Gibbs is definitely done for good this time.

Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

[quote=SBXVII;597871]Hey, if he could get us moving like the Colts I'm all for it, but he didn't look that way with Tampa yrs a go. I think it was his OC.[/quote]


Dungy had a decent FO backing him up also. Dungy is a great coach, but without a decent FO he would be a waste.

Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

Can it be the sky is falling time now?

Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;597883]Gibbs is definitely done for good this time.[/quote]


If Gibbs was say 15-20 years younger yeah go get him again, but you need to start pretty much from scratch this time around. Rebuilt lines, new RB to be honest, as well as a QB, not to mention an entire new defensive backfield. Why Lion WRs got total seperation on the longer routes and we didn't(with the exception of the Moss TD) is beyond me. Our DB's were pathetic today.

Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

[quote=Paintrain;597301]In my 30 years of being a Redskins fan, this is an all time low. Worse than losing the 1 game to the 1-15 Cowboys. Worse than losing 38-9 in the Super Bowl. Worse than any Spurrier loss or even the Coach 'Robinskie' era. We lost to a team that hadn't won a game in 20 months. Any team would be embarrassed by today's effort and result. It just happens to have happened to us.

So now what? I think Dan Snyder has to now acknowledge that it's not working. This is not just a loss, this is an organizational failure. This is a failure of management, coaching and players. This is an organizational opportunity to reset. If Snyder reacts by firing Zorn tomorrow, that would be a typical, old Snyder knee jerk reaction. I hope he gets the realization that it's not working and takes a few measured steps to correcting the course of the franchise.

What I'd like to see Snyder do tomorrow is start the search immediately for a President of Football Operations. Instead of operating from the sideline up, we need drastic change from the front office down. There are some people available (Casserly, Holmgren, Floyd Reese, Bruce Allen) that Snyder could bring in now and allow them to take the season to evaluate the roster, the front office staff and the coaching staff. He doesn't need to make a move on Zorn or Cerrato. Someone needs to come in and be our Parcells or Joe Banner. We need an experienced front office person to come in and set the direction for the football team. Let them make the decisions on the coach and GM.

Personally, I want Shanahan to be our coach for the next decade because I believe he's a brilliant and progressive offensive mind and one of our major problems for decades is lack of an offensive identity. But, I don't think he'll be any more successful than Turner, Schotty, Spurrier, Gibbs or Zorn under our current structure. Unless we have a strong front office structure and an organizational plan, we'll be wasting Shanahan's talent and more years of our players careers.

I know I'm not breaking any new ground with this post, but this is a crucial point for the future of the Washington Redskins. We can do business as usual or make a dramatic change in the way things are done in order to save this once proud franchise.[/quote]

100% agree. BTW this would have been a perfect response in my "Now What?" thread. :)

Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

[quote=WaldSkins;597880]Grimm and Casserly?[/quote]

I think he said Schottenhimer? Whatever? My Labrador could sniff out a better O-line than Vinny.

And yes, Cody Grimm the safety for VA Tech.

Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

[quote=WaldSkins;597880]Grimm and Casserly?[/quote]

I wouldn't be opposed to either one of them. Unfortunately it will probably be more like Jon Gruden and VC gets to keep his job.

Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;597854]I agree with SS. Fire Vinny and Zorn. Bring in Russ Grimm. [B]Shit, might as well bring in Cody Grimm[/B]. Anything is better than losing to the Lions.[/quote]

I wish our guys played as well as Cody Grimm.

Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

[quote=HTTR;597835]What? Snyder is the architect of this mess. He's responsible for Vinny, he's responsible for Zorn, he's responsible for the revolving door of coaching, he's responsible for setting a tone of DC being the place over-the-hill players come to collect a paycheck. He's also playing us fans for suckers, and geez are we sucking![/quote]

This isn't worth getting into again so I won't bother

Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

[quote=Paintrain;597301]In my 30 years of being a Redskins fan, this is an all time low. Worse than losing the 1 game to the 1-15 Cowboys. Worse than losing 38-9 in the Super Bowl. Worse than any Spurrier loss or even the Coach 'Robinskie' era. We lost to a team that hadn't won a game in 20 months. Any team would be embarrassed by today's effort and result. It just happens to have happened to us.

So now what? I think Dan Snyder has to now acknowledge that it's not working. This is not just a loss, this is an organizational failure. This is a failure of management, coaching and players. This is an organizational opportunity to reset. If Snyder reacts by firing Zorn tomorrow, that would be a typical, old Snyder knee jerk reaction. I hope he gets the realization that it's not working and takes a few measured steps to correcting the course of the franchise.

What I'd like to see Snyder do tomorrow is start the search immediately for a President of Football Operations. Instead of operating from the sideline up, we need drastic change from the front office down. There are some people available (Casserly, Holmgren, Floyd Reese, Bruce Allen) that Snyder could bring in now and allow them to take the season to evaluate the roster, the front office staff and the coaching staff. He doesn't need to make a move on Zorn or Cerrato. Someone needs to come in and be our Parcells or Joe Banner. We need an experienced front office person to come in and set the direction for the football team. Let them make the decisions on the coach and GM.
[/quote]Good post. I hope Snyder was on the phone with Holmgren earlier tonight. I'm not on the Shanahan thing, but hopefully this shakes Danny up into getting the true PoFO / GM we need.

Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

[quote=GTripp0012;597450]Stafford didn't really show me anything except his accuracy with a football is no better than mine.[/quote]

LOL Good 1 he misse more WR than a high school QB. I guess our defense is really bad.

Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;597746]I completely agree with the person who made this post..I think I can say with confidence now these 3 things:
Zorn Won't be here next year
Campbell won't be here next year
We won't go to the playoffs this year[/quote]

I can say this as well that if all 3 of the things happen then we wont be in the playoffs next year either.

Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

I wondering when the players will call for a players on meeting to fix this mess. Good players don't balme the coaches they blame themselves. Players play and coaches coach. Zorn doesn't block, catch, pass, tackle, kick, or punt. Zorn is the HC so he gets most of the blame but our players have to play with more heart and emotion.

Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;597964]This isn't worth getting into again so I won't bother[/quote]

Yeah you're running out of excuses...I can see why you can't rebuttle.

Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

[quote=roth74va;597506]I respectfully disagree, I see alot of talent on this team. We just dont have the coaches that have the foresight to adjust to their players and make things work. Zorn and Blache both are so intent on doing it their way, I hope they end up coaching Pop warner football somewhere.

And I dont think 1-15 Dallas team would be considered a "good team", but today is the lowest Ive ever felt as a lifelong Skins fan.[/quote]

I meant the 83 skins and the 89 skins were good teams.

Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

[quote=WaldSkins;597829]Snyder is the owner i want for this team. He will do anything and go get any player or coach to win. He's not a stupid man, if we have a poor showing this year i think he does the right thing and gets rid of VC and brings in a true GM.[/quote]

we all know snyder wants to win but he doesn't know how to win. money doesn't make a team. he needs to step aside and bring in a true football guy to run things.

Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

[quote=skinsfan69;598062]we all know snyder wants to win but he doesn't know how to win. money doesn't make a team. he needs to step aside and bring in a true football guy to run things.[/quote]There are a lot of really bad football guys though.

For every Thomas Dimitroff, there's three or four Rick Spielman's

Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

[quote=skinsfan69;598062]we all know snyder wants to win but he doesn't know how to win. money doesn't make a team. he needs to step aside and bring in a true football guy to run things.[/quote]

Couldn't be said better.

It's too bad our owner was successful at such a young age because he's never encountered the hardships or struggles of long term failure and how you overcome it.

This guy thinks he'll be successful just because everything he's ever touched before has turned to gold. That's great for him as an individual but the only thing that will turn this around is a personal sense of humility that one doesn't have all the answers to our current problems.

Realizing your previous success doesn't necessarily translate to future success will go along way here.

Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;598058]Yeah you're running out of excuses...I can see why you can't rebuttle.[/quote]

Snyder is responsible for Vinny being here. And if you want to make the argument that everything stems from that decision that's fine

But you're right I have no rebuttal for when I say Zorn wasn't Snyder's decision and the response is "Snyder needs to stop micromanaging" or it wasn't Snyder's (or Vinny's) decision to trade multiple picks for Lloyd and Duckett, and the reason is "Snyder needs to stop micromanaging" or that is not all uncommon for owners to meet with potential draft picks and the response is "Snyder needs to stop micromanaging"

Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;598148]Snyder is responsible for Vinny being here. And if you want to make the argument that everything stems from that decision that's fine

But you're right I have no rebuttal for when I say Zorn wasn't Snyder's decision and the response is "Snyder needs to stop micromanaging" or it wasn't Snyder's (or Vinny's) decision to trade multiple picks for Lloyd and Duckett, and the reason is "Snyder needs to stop micromanaging" or that is not all uncommon for owners to meet with potential draft picks and the response is "Snyder needs to stop micromanaging"[/quote]

Vinny has been with Dan Snyder even before he was owner. Vinny consulted Dan Snyder's purchasing group even before he owned the team way back in 1999.
[URL="http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-569399.html"]Redskins' Group Adds Consultant - The Washington Post | Encyclopedia.com[/URL]

Marty Schott's first order of business when he came to DC was to fire Vinny Cerrato, which he did successfully.
[URL="http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P1-40226285.html"]Redskins Fire Vinny Cerrato - AP Online | Encyclopedia.com[/URL]

How did Vinny find his way back into the organization again? What normal employee is let go by an organization and just comes back to serve in the same capacity as before? Why not just choose another player personnel person after Schotty let Cerrato go?

It's safe to say that Cerrato and Snyder have more than a business relationship with each other. To think that Snyder doesn't have significant influence over Cerrato is absurd.


I personally don't think it comes down to Snyder micromanaging as it comes down to Snyder managing via his proxy, Cerrato.

Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

[quote=12thMan;597833]I agree about Portis. He doesn't break or run through tackles anymore, he's not the cutback runner that he used to be and certainly doesn't have that 2nd gear to break away. I think he's still a starter in this league, but I think Gibbs 2.0 took has taken it's toll on CP. He's still all heart though.[/quote]

100% agree. Love the guy, but he's not a game changer anymore. He's a very good RB and does alot well, but he's not the guy that he used to be. Who is?

Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

Changing just the coach/s wont work because they will still have to coach these no-heart no energy bums. There are a whole lot of players on this team that need to go because they are too comfortable in their position on this team. Zorn will never be confused with Lombardi but look at what he's trying to coach/motivate.

Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

Does it not make sense to bring in the new guy now? Gives him time to evaualte current plans and plan for the draft. I mean basically this season is going no where with Zorn at the helm.

Why wait until the end of the season then the new guy is scrambling to figure everything out with the draft loomig.

Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;597711]Doughty has been playing very well the last couple of weeks. Would you have him start over horton?

[B]We really miss having Sean Springs as our leader of the CBs. The dude was hurt a good bit but he also played very well for us. Seems that these CBs need to find a leader[/B]. They are young but not very good.[/quote]

Yeah, as much as he was injured and the cap room we would save and all that, I was worried when we let him go. Smoot is now the "veteran leader." Smoot's alright but come on, there's certain people I just wouldn't expect to learn things from or be led by, and Smoot's one of them. Secondary coaches are at fault, too.

Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

The thing that makes the most sense is to hire Holmgren as our Bill Parcells. It's essentially his WCO so he knows the players to look for, has all that experience. He could help turn around the offense and make smart decisions and trades, not dumbass ones like the JT trade. And when Blache steps down we go for one of Rex Ryan's assistants- dude and his staff have always had awesome defenses

Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

[quote=franklinhimself;598256]The thing that makes the most sense is to hire Holmgren as our Bill Parcells. It's essentially his WCO so he knows the players to look for, has all that experience. He could help turn around the offense and make smart decisions and trades, not dumbass ones like the JT trade. And when Blache steps down we go for one of Rex Ryan's assistants- dude and his staff have always had awesome defenses[/quote]

I agree.

Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

[quote=franklinhimself;598256]The thing that makes the most sense is to hire Holmgren as our Bill Parcells. It's essentially his WCO so he knows the players to look for, has all that experience. He could help turn around the offense and make smart decisions and trades, not dumbass ones like the JT trade. And when Blache steps down we go for one of Rex Ryan's assistants- dude and his staff have always had awesome defenses[/quote]

Best idea I've heard yet. Maybe he can fix Zorn.

I'm glad you didn't act like the rest of the idiots blaming Campbell...who is having a great year and proving to be the our leader at QB. He's the least of the problems with this team.

Let's pray for a win over TB next week. They didn't score a point this week.

Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

[quote=franklinhimself;598256]The thing that makes the most sense is to hire Holmgren as our Bill Parcells. It's essentially his WCO so he knows the players to look for, has all that experience. He could help turn around the offense and make smart decisions and trades, not dumbass ones like the JT trade. And when Blache steps down we go for one of Rex Ryan's assistants- dude and his staff have always had awesome defenses[/quote]

So in your scenario we're keeping Zorn as head coach?

And is Holmgren's track record as a GM really that great?

Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

[quote=Buster;598267]Best idea I've heard yet. Maybe he can fix Zorn.

I'm glad you didn't act like the rest of the idiots blaming Campbell...who is having a great year and proving to be the our leader at QB. He's the least of the problems with this team.

Let's pray for a win over TB next week. [B]They didn't score a point this week[/B].[/quote]

The Rams were blanked the week before we played them, too. I'll take another 9-7 win, though.

Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;598273]And is Holmgren's track record as a GM really that great?[/quote]

ANYTHING beats our current structure.....tough week to be a Skins fan!

Re: This loss could be the best thing to happen to his franchise.
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;597774]You are 3-3 my friend...[/quote]

what do you mean?