Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;626719]With 11 quarterbacks on a pace to pass for more than 4,000 yards, it's pretty clear that the passing game has become more important than a running offense. Sure, it helps to have the balance of the New Orleans Saints, who have Drew Brees' passing backed by the No. 5 running offense. But the rules encourage passing, and to win consistently, teams need a quarterback who can throw for 225 to 250 yards a week and put up at least 22 points. For what it's worth, none of the top four rushing teams have winning records.

[B]Saw this on ESPN,how/or does this effect your list of HC candidates?[/B][/quote]

It means that we should hire the qb coach from Seattle and install the WCO...oh, wait...

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=Lotus;626735]It means that we should hire the qb coach from Seattle and install the WCO...oh, wait...[/quote]

:rofl:

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=Hog1;626270]Would you not love to take a run at Peyton Manning for QB coach when he retires?[/quote]

QB coach? I'd take him as a head coach!

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=SmootSmack;625138]Has he ever even been an offensive coordinator, has he called plays? Who's to say Grimm would be a good head coach? I've got no problem with taking someone who hasn't been head coach, but I don't want another staff brought here without anyone with experiencing calling plays on offense. So if we bring Grimm in as HC, I hope someone like Bratkowski comes along as OC[/quote]

I agree with you about Grimm as HC. I just dont get it. Its like some fans love him as a player, know he's been a O-line coach on some superbowl teams and think he's qualified to be our head coach. In my opinion, he's done nothing to prove he'd be better at the job than Zorn. Now, id consider him as an OC, but thats about it. We need an experienced coach right now. The team needs it. After the Zorn debacle, the players need someone they can respect.

Re: Our next coach??
 

Who knows Zorn and Cerrato maybe back in 2010

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=NCCU1984;626849]Who knows Zorn and Cerrato maybe back in 2010[/quote]

If we win some games and finish around .500 you may be right. Its hard to say but for VC to go we would have to lose most of our games we have left.

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=Paintrain;623102]They have indeed gotten much closer over the years. Snyder reached out to Marty when his son was diagnosed with cancer to give him access to the same doctors and the Mayo clinic that he used when he went thru the same thing.

Back OT, I would be very happy with the following set-up:
President of Football Operations-Floyd Reese
General Manager-Phil Savage
Director of Pro Personnel-George Kokinis
HC-Whomever Reese and Savage decide upon![/quote]


Phil Savage was the GM in Cleveland for more than a couple of years and assembled most of the "talent" there. He drafted Brady Quinn; he signed Derek Anderson to a long tem deal and kept the two QBs on the same roster. He drafted Braylon Edwards.

The Browns brought in Kokinis to Cleveland this year and have already fired him - - looking for a reason to fire him "for cause" so they don't have to pay him.

And that is your "dream team" to come in here and fix up the place? Wow...

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=NCCU1984;626849]Who knows Zorn and Cerrato maybe back in 2010[/quote]

I can see Zorn staying, Cerrato demoted to something like GM assistant, and Holmgren brought in as GM. It almost makes too much sense.

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=NM Redskin;627415]I can see Zorn staying, Cerrato demoted to something like GM assistant, and Holmgren brought in as GM. It almost makes too much sense.[/quote]

This does seem to make since of bring in Holmgren to be the next GM. Zorn has 2 years left on his contract so maybe Synder keeps him if the team continues to show improvement and win 5 to 6 more games this year. I think they would keep Sherm Lewis as play caller and if Zorn would agree with it than if not Zorn is gone. If Zorn goes I see John Gruden coming in as Head Coach and Vinny stays as the GM.

Re: Our next coach??
 

I have a sinking feeling that VC will be here next yr which means we are screwed

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if some how we manage to start winning yeah i can see them both here

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^^^ Ya know this is what I was afraid of. People falling back in love with VC and Zorn.
I knew it would happen, just was hoping it wouldn't. Win one game and everyone forgets 8 games last season where some called us predictable, and 6 games this year where we couldn't beat the lowest of low teams. Sherm Lewis is brought in and now Vinny is not all that bad and is a genious, Zorn looks to have figured out what he couldn't during the first 8 games. This sucks.

I mean it's so clear that Lewis has nothing to do with bailing out Zorn and Vinny. If we were to keep any part of this team as is for continuity since it worked so well moving from last year to this year can we simply keep Lewis? Fire VC, and Zorn. Otherwise can we can the whole expierement and start anew with a true GM and "Rebuild" this team. I am tired of 14yrs of being 1 or 2 players away from winning it all. Any chance we can do what the Capitals did and get rid of all the dead old wood and bring in fresh young healthy legs with a fresh new "qualified" HC?

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I don't think anybody is loving Zorn or Vinny after one win... but it's worth asking what do you do if the team looks good down the stretch?? Do you just ignore that and base your offseason decisions on the first 8 games only?

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I can't see anyone here "falling in love" with VC, Zorn is slightly different, in that if he can bring a team back, accept losing playcalling responsibilities, and demonstrate he has learned the hard lessons from the last 18 games, then maybe he could come back, with some staff changes including a permanent solution at playcalling (not Sherm Lewis, as much as I love the move, or Sherm Smith, who could be fired now as far as I am concerned). Bottomline is still, DS needs to bring in a GM, let him do his work, keep his nose out, and then where ever the chips fall for Zorn so be it.

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[quote=Mattyk72;627477]I don't think anybody is loving Zorn or Vinny after one win... but it's worth asking what do you do if the team looks good down the stretch??[B] Do you just ignore that and base your offseason decisions on the first 8 games only?[/B][/quote]

16 games actually, Yes. I know I sound retarded. If the team started winning (which I doubt will happen) and we end what? What is the magic number that would keep the team intact next year? 8-8, 9-7, 10-6 or better? I would think that if the team did go on a winning streak then it would have to be better then last yr. Would 9-7 do the job for DS? Then you have to think about who was the master mind behind the winning? Did Zorn actually figure out the problem or was it Lewis? Do we keep one man to simply stand on the sideline and wear a head set to repeat the plays called to the QB with no authority as a HC? or could we just name Lewis the HC if he's the master mind behind all this.

I'll throw one idea at you though. Many experts have said it takes atleast 3 yrs for a team to actually start showing improvement after picking up a new HC and changing it's scheme. I presume part of this issue is the HC getting the players he needs to run his scheme. Do we wait one more year?

I have issues with VC cause he has not built a team with long term goals. It's a win now mentality. We are reaping what we have sewn right now with the old age players getting hurt and no replacements that are qualified. He picked his talent scouts who personally I think are not all that great either that or VC doesn't listen to them and goes out on a limb for whoever he and DS wants.

I had high hopes Zorn would come into this league and light it up with his "high powered offense" but it has been a dud since mid season of last year...16 games. No fixy. To me thats HCing and VC for not fixing the problems. The team has to go outside to locate a consultant to figure out what the problem is and since then the team has progressively gotten better. Somewhat. Maybe it's just the play calling but I could swear I'm seeing plays that Zorn has not run prior to Lewis's arrival, plus a change of personel on the field. Most of the personel issue is due to injuries but it's funny the #2's on this team are getting the job done.

Maybe decisions need to be made by DS, does he have the money to fire all the coaches and the older players with their big contracts and bring in and pay new coach's and younger players or will he have to make a decision about which is more important right now. Fire the coaching staff and bring in a new coaching staff and again slowly purge the older vets off this roster, or keep the coaching staff if they go 9-7 and unload all the big contracts with no CAP?

Re: Our next coach??
 

I doubt the team pulls off any major winning streak down the stretch too... and I don't think there's a magic number of wins the team has to get to. I just think you have to look at the season as a whole, and determine if there were sure signs of improvement as the year went on, and if it's something that deserves to keep building on.

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[quote=Mattyk72;627477]I don't think anybody is loving Zorn or Vinny after one win... but it's worth asking what do you do if the team looks good down the stretch?? Do you just ignore that and base your offseason decisions on the first 8 games only?[/quote]

The best this team can hope for right now is 10-6. Now, we all know thats not going to happen, but even if it did, head coaches have been fired with better records than that. Unless this team somehow makes the playoffs and we get multiple wins in the playoffs, Zorn's gone. Even if we somehow got to 8-8 or 9-7, the team's been far too inconsistent under Zorn. Further, if the team did turn the season around, it wouldn't appear to be due Zorn or anything he's done. The second Lewis was hired, any credit for improvement would go to him, and by extension, Cerrato for making the decision to bring him in. In the end, the only thing a miraculous turnaround will do is give Snyder an excuse to keep Cerrato around. Zorn's chances of being with this team beyond January 4th, 2010 are close to zero.

And, if you agree with this line of reasoning, he could be gone in about 10 days...
[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/11/19/bills-head-start-could-force-snyders-hand/]Bills' head start could force Snyder's hand | ProFootballTalk.com[/url]

Re: Our next coach??
 

Unless the team just completely falls apart these next few weeks I don't think Snyder will fire Zorn during the season.

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=Mattyk72;627519]Unless the team just completely falls apart these next few weeks I don't think Snyder will fire Zorn during the season.[/quote]

I honestly don't either, unless the cowgirls continue their downward spiral and jones gets ancy and fires the pillsbury doughboy midseason. However, that (the firing) doesnt seem likely. If snyders goal is to get Shanahan, his best hope is for the girls to make the playoffs, so he can get a head-start on wooing Shanahan (over Jones) and offer him:

1. full control over football operations (whether he exercises that control by making himself defacto GM or whether he selects his own personnel guy would be Shanahan's choice, not Snyders);
2. something in the 9-10MM neighborhood for a minimum of 5 years with a contract that ensures Snyder will stay out of things or Shanahan gets to walk and take ALL his money with him; and
3. This is key - agree to make his son Kyle one of the highest-paid coordinators in the NFL.

Shahanan wouldn't get a better offer anywhere else, so there'd be no reason for him to wait to see what Jones does with Phillips after the playoffs.

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;627478]I can't see anyone here "falling in love" with VC, [B]Zorn is slightly different[/B], in that if he can bring a team back, accept losing playcalling responsibilities, and demonstrate he has learned the hard lessons from the last 18 games, then maybe he could come back, [B]with some staff changes including a permanent solution at playcalling[/B] (not Sherm Lewis, as much as I love the move, or Sherm Smith, who could be fired now as far as I am concerned). Bottomline is still, DS needs to bring in a GM, let him do his work, keep his nose out, and then where ever the chips fall for Zorn so be it.[/quote]

i only faulted zorn at first then i started to feel for the guy, i mean he was brought in here with no experience to be an oc then he was bumped to hc cause danny and vinny couldn't find anyone else

as far as playcalling, does anyone really give s lewis all the credit of the o production? i really think he didn't do that much everything was basically the same for the first few games then portis got hurt and the o turned on, i love portis but i really think it was him holding us back

and i agree with matty, at this point unless we get shut out by dallas and then shut out by philly then i don't see zorn leaving before the seasons end

as for our next coach i still have no front runner evetyone thinnks shannahan but there's so many openings he will end up some where w.o the headache in the fo

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=mlmdub130;627769]i only faulted zorn at first then i started to feel for the guy, i mean he was brought in here with no experience to be an oc then he was bumped to hc cause danny and vinny couldn't find anyone else

[B]as far as playcalling, does anyone really give s lewis all the credit of the o production?[/B] i really think he didn't do that much everything was basically the same for the first few games then portis got hurt and the o turned on, i love portis but i really think it was him holding us back

and i agree with matty, at this point unless we get shut out by dallas and then shut out by philly then i don't see zorn leaving before the seasons end

as for our next coach i still have no front runner evetyone thinnks shannahan but there's so many openings he will end up some where w.o the headache in the fo[/quote]

Let's see, in the redzone, our production has clearly increased, we have passed more effectively, brought in more youth (mitchell one game, others have been used far more). I think our play calling has been dramatically improved by Lewis' performance. Zorn always tried for the perfect play, and therefore never thought multiple plays ahead(in my opinion), now we see our offense flowing more smoothly even with a more complex system of getting the call to him.

Also, in the last 3 games, against top 10 defenses, we have scored 17 17 and 24 with Lewis calling the offense, how did we do with Zorn, against what kind of defenses?

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[quote=CRedskinsRule;627777]Let's see, in the redzone, our production has clearly increased, we have passed more effectively, brought in more youth ([B]mitchell one game[/B], others have been used far more). I think our play calling has been dramatically improved by Lewis' performance. Zorn always tried for the perfect play, and therefore never thought multiple plays ahead(in my opinion), now we see our offense flowing more smoothly even with a more complex system of getting the call to him.

Also, in the last 3 games, against top 10 defenses, we have scored 17 17 and 24 with Lewis calling the offense, how did we do with Zorn, against what kind of defenses?[/quote]

two games turst me i'm watching him like a hawk

and i'm not saying we haven't improved we obviously have, and while sherm might be part of the reason, did it not look lik ewe really started to click in the second half of the atlanta game when portis got hurt?

btw nflnetwrok just said he is out for sunday

Re: Our next coach??
 

And I am not saying that Betts for Portis, or LJones in Denver haven't also impacted it, but I can not find it in me to believe that we would have scored over 10 points in any of those 3 games if Zorn was calling the plays. The only game we had 17 with Zorn this year was the Giants(from memory) and even it that one, we would have stalled in the red zone if we hadn't done the trick play (WHICH I fully credit Zorn with in both cases. This is where he can do good, knowing when to be aggressive with the tricks and 4th down, and when to live for another day)

I think the refreshing attitude the "2nd stringers" have brought has also been a key to our success. Maybe Portis, Cooley, and Moss all believed the hype to the detriment of the team.

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do you not think that he has certain people telling him that he needs to have the big names in though? because with marko's size and production in the preseason can you honestly see ANY team in the nfl not giving him a shot before the 9th week?

and that 17 againgts the giants was trash points at the end anyway, but we had 17 against the panters philly and atl

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this damn wireless keyboard does not help my bad spelling either

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=mlmdub130;627785]do you not think that he has certain people telling him that he needs to have the big names in though? because with marko's size and production in the preseason can you honestly see ANY team in the nfl not giving him a shot before the 9th week?

and that 17 againgts the giants was trash points at the end anyway, but we had 17 against the panters philly and atl[/quote]

I don't really understand your point. My point is our offense has looked substantially more dynamic, again IMO, since Lewis started calling. It's not the plays themselves, but the use of them. I know when Zorn was calling plays full time, I could predict fairly close what our play was, and I am no where near the caliber of the DCoordinators in the NFL. And the 17 points against philly and atl, were under lewis, and against real defenses.

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;627805]I don't really understand your point. My point is our offense has looked substantially more dynamic, again IMO, since Lewis started calling. It's not the plays themselves, but the use of them. I know when Zorn was calling plays full time, I could predict fairly close what our play was, and I am no where near the caliber of the DCoordinators in the NFL. And the 17 points against philly and atl, were under lewis, and against real defenses.[/quote]

i just think zorn is on a leash and told what he is allowed to do, i think that any coach wanting to "find a spark" would try a seemingly amazing talent in mithcell

and as far as the play calling i honestly haven't seen anything that drastic, i guess you are refering to the times in which plays are called, i just feel that are o was the same with minor changes if the first few games with sherm, but once cp went out we started to light it up.

i guess my point would be that sherm has helped out a little bit, but portis getting a concusion actually helped us out more, as weird as that may seem, just because portis has been playing hurt all year and no one could actually stop him from sutiing up and playing, until he got the concussion

betts has been PRACTICING with first team and has a rythm with them which goes a long way

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;627805]I don't really understand your point. My point is our offense has looked substantially more dynamic, again IMO, since Lewis started calling. It's not the plays themselves, but the use of them. I know when Zorn was calling plays full time, I could predict fairly close what our play was, and I am no where near the caliber of the DCoordinators in the NFL. And the 17 points against philly and atl, were under lewis, and against real defenses.[/quote]

I heard somewhere a while back that Zorn complained about not being able to get to his fiftenth play until late in the third qtr. He expressed that to the media or something with that said, he pretty much is calling a handfull of plays repeatedly without even adjusting to the defense. So the reason our offense had been so weak was that he was calling plays over and over again that where not having an effect. For instance earlier in the year on those goal line plays he ran to the left and were stuffed he just never adjusted to the personnel or anything.

He is not a coach look at ARE, still back there letting the ball bounce back for like 20 yds in a critical part of the game.

Re: Our next coach??
 

I don't know that I think Zorn is on a leash, I think he firmly believes in the starter has the job, and doesn't lose it. Who do you think tells Zorn to play or not play WR's or keep ARE at punt returns? If anything I think since the losses to the 0fers, Zorn is being forced to play others, and that also is helping us.
I agree that CP out has also helped, sad to say. but also the comfort with the new play calling system has helped too. It's just a case where so much has changed it's hard to see which specific change has had the most effect. I tend to mark the difference at the point where JZ lost playcalling, but I can see your point as well.

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[quote=warpaint;627813]I heard somewhere a while back that Zorn complained about not being able to get to his fiftenth play until late in the third qtr. He expressed that to the media or something with that said, [B]he pretty much is calling a handfull of plays repeatedly without even adjusting to the defense[/B]. So the reason our offense had been so weak was that he was calling plays over and over again that where not having an effect. For instance earlier in the year on those goal line plays he ran to the left and were stuffed he just never adjusted to the personnel or anything.

He is not a coach look at ARE, still back there letting the ball bounce back for like 20 yds in a critical part of the game.[/quote]

or when the red zone was failing and the comment surfaced that we had one play for Cooley and we already used it. Compare that to Lewis in the redzone, I can't remember the specifics, but basically he went to davis it didn't work so he went right back to him. But what really got me, was when we had to call a timeout because Zorn was waiting on a measure. He said that he had to know exactly before he could decide on a play. Well, maybe you have 2 plays ready, but to not have a play ready once the measure is done is ridiculous.

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you both make good points and i agree with both, i guess i just feel for the guy and don't wanna put all the blame on him, i feel like he is a scape goat at this point

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;627818]He said that he had to know exactly before he could decide on a play. Well, maybe you have 2 plays ready, but to not have a play ready once the measure is done is ridiculous.[/quote]

so is throwing a fade to are in the endzone, so....

Re: Our next coach??
 

probably, but i think if he shows leadership, and keeps the team together after that dreadful start, he still may show something. And if he wins in dallas again, 2-0 in dallas goes far as a skins fan!

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[quote=mlmdub130;627821]so is throwing a fade to are in the endzone, so....[/quote]

yeah, that one didn't go so well :)

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Dude if we start winning more games and scoring more points and Sherman Lewis is the cause...i have no problem with him being the next coach.

Re: Our next coach??
 

I've been a Zorn supporter from the start but as CRedskinsRule has pointed out before, his playcalling has not been that great. He seems to try to be too smart in the redzone. For example the stretch play works in theory, but running straight ahead works best for US. We don't always have to outsmart people in the redzone, just outplay them. It may do him good to stand back a little and learn. We started moving the ball when Betts took over and that doesn't really surprise me. For one thing he knows the plays and practices behind the o-line throughout the week. Half the time I don't have a clue what Portis is trying to do and I'm not sure if he knows either. I'm glad to see Betts get his chance because even though Portis has more talent, Betts is a better fit because he puts in the effort during the week and the o-line knows they can count on him. They know he's gonna hit the hole and run downhill. Portis usually runs into their back or falls down then complains about the blocking.

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I was really hoping on Gruden but I have no Idea who can come here and do something.I dont like Shanahan he hasnt done anything since Elway or Switzer which took him forever to get his ring then he leaves it was all Big Ben with him or Belichik they look good because of the rings not even Dungy is a product of Payton look how long it took him to build that Defense, and he was to be defensive genious.

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Yeah, I wasn't on the Gruden bus, Not sure who would be the best, but as I have said a lot, the key is getting a GOOD GM in, and letting him assemble a team, and Snyder assure them of 3 solid years. I don't think it will take 3 years, but the new group needs to be in charge. no ifs ands or buts

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[quote=53Fan;627826][B]I don't have a clue what Portis is trying to do and I'm not sure if he knows either[/B] .[/quote]

I think he wants to be like Plaxico not practice and be effective. But it hasnt worked that well now with this real injury he screwed himself because of his self-centered lazy attitude.

Re: Our next coach??
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;627828]Yeah, I wasn't on the Gruden bus, Not sure who would be the best, but as I have said a lot, the key is getting a GOOD GM in, and letting him assemble a team, and Snyder assure them of 3 solid years. I don't think it will take 3 years, but the new group needs to be in charge. no ifs ands or buts[/quote]

Yeah this off-season is going to say alot about our future. I am really worried that Dan has hurt us with the way he has treated Zorn and the whole mystery/non-mystery of who is calling the shots.

Your right It will have to start with a GM.