Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

[quote=Beemnseven;642170]Here's how you get around the "Rooney Rule" --

Step 1. Call up Tony Dungy.
Step 2. Ask Tony if he wants the job.
Step 3. Wait for Tony to say "No."
Step 4. Hire the coach you wanted all along.

Bingo. Rooney rule followed.[/quote]

Keep in mind the Redskins have a handful of minority coaches, more then most teams in the league. Greg Blache, Jerry Gray, Sherm Lewis, Sherman Smith, Stump Mitchell, Steve Jackson, Bobby Crumpler, and Stan Hixon are all minority coaches. In fact I think the Redskins have been commended in the past for the level of diversity they've had in both the front office and among their coaching staff.

I wonder how people of mixed race would work though when it comes to the Rooney rule. I mean if you interview someone thats half white and half something else, like Herm Edwards, does it qualify as one candidate or half a candidate? What if someone is like 1/5 native american?

[quote=celts32;642184]I don't get why anyone would want Zorn to stay. The team improved when he was stripped of most of his duties. I see no point in bringing Zorn back. I like Zorn too...he would make a great neighbor but I don't want him coaching my football team.[/quote]

The only reason I would want Zorn to stay is to continue to coach QB's. If anything he's done a pretty good job with Jason. However we have a quality offensive mind in Shannahan coming in, and more then likely a budding prodigy in his son Kyle, so that would make keeping Zorn a moot point. Not to mention there's no way in hell he would come back next year.

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

[quote=celts32;642184]I don't get why anyone would want Zorn to stay. The team improved when he was stripped of most of his duties. I see no point in bringing Zorn back. I like Zorn too...he would make a great neighbor but I don't want him coaching my football team.[/quote]

cosign

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

[quote=celts32;642184]I don't get why anyone would want Zorn to stay. The team improved when he was stripped of most of his duties. I see no point in bringing Zorn back. I like Zorn too...he would make a great neighbor but I don't want him coaching my football team.[/quote]
3rd that

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

Can we close this thread since Shannahan isn't our coach yet???

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

Good read here [url=http://www.chiefswarpath.com/news/2009/01/01/dont-hire-mike-shanahan-an-open-letter-to-clark-hunt/]Don’t Hire Mike Shanahan (An Open Letter to Clark Hunt)[/url]

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

I just heard in Korea that Greg Novis is officialy out of the race for head coach, but he will be in charge of yelling at bartenders at the Hardtimes in Springfield every Sunday during Skins games!

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

Adam Schefter said it is not a done deal. Way i see it

Chris Mortenson and NFL VERSUS Adam Schefter.

This is ginna be damn good!

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

[quote=Eriwar;642197]Good read here [url=http://www.chiefswarpath.com/news/2009/01/01/dont-hire-mike-shanahan-an-open-letter-to-clark-hunt/]Don’t Hire Mike Shanahan (An Open Letter to Clark Hunt)[/url][/quote]

It is interesting, but pretty weak arguments when applied to our situation here:

His first argument is fallacious, he builds the evidence of Shanahan being better than Holmgren, very well I might add:
[quote]So let’s compare apples to apples. Shanahan lost Elway to retirement at the end of the 1998 season. Mike Holmgren lost Brett Favre when he took over in Seattle at the end of the 1998 season. Each has ten seasons now without their Hall Of Fame, Super Bowl-winning quarterback. In that span Shanahan has 91 regular season wins. Holmgren has 86. Advantage: Shanahan, right?[/quote]
then tears it down because Holmgrem "changed the culture" Ok, but Shanahan did not have that opportunity so it proves nothing about Shanahans ability. And the fact is, Shanahan did win more games.

2. I will grant Shanahan wasn't outstanding in the playoffs without Elway. time to find another Elway (maybe Campbell, remember Elway wasn't perfect, after all he tried to take a snap from a guard!)

3. [quote]With Elway, Shanahan’s mean average season record was 12-4. Sans Elway it’s 9-7. I’d rather have a coach that charged full steam into the postseason rather than unceremoniously backing into it.[/quote] So with a HOF QB, 12-4, w/o 9-7, what have we been?

4. Not sure I care whether or not Shanahan can win at Arrowhead or Mile High. Maybe a stat about losing at Dallas or Philly, otherwise, meh...

5. [quote]Mike Shanahan can’t draft. ... He hasn’t shown any great propensity for developing young talent either. He is what he is: a decent manager of veteran players. We’re not a veteran team.[/quote]
Well we are a fairly veteran team, and both BA and Shanahan seem to understand good talent. Now the other part is it sounds like we are bringing in one or more top scouts to help keep the talent stocked.

6. [quote] Capitalism.
Arrowhead used to be famous for its Sea of Red. Lately it’s becoming infamous for its Seats of Red. I know the team is $30 million under the cap. That’s probably a good thing, given how much revenue is lost when those seats go empty more often than not. Consider the general disgust presently pervading the Chiefs fan base. Now consider the current condition of the economy. Now consider how many more seats might go empty if you brought aboard the most hated man in the AFC West. In the Chiefs Nation, Carl Peterson has a higher approval rating than Mike Shanahan. Hell, Scott Peterson has a higher approval rating than Mike Shanahan.[/quote] Again, highly pertinent to KC, not so much here. Also Capitalism could be a persuasive argument for him here, he will certainly bring a dynamic offense to Washington, and that WILL fill all those yellow seats at FEDEX.

Well that's my thoughts, but still good article.

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

[quote=Eriwar;642197]Good read here [url=http://www.chiefswarpath.com/news/2009/01/01/dont-hire-mike-shanahan-an-open-letter-to-clark-hunt/]Don’t Hire Mike Shanahan (An Open Letter to Clark Hunt)[/url][/quote]

Sounds like I could have written the article, it's true. No Elway, no success. And then there's Jay Cutler with his 22 int's and counting. No thanks!!

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;642204]Sounds like I could have written the article, it's true. No Elway, no success. And then there's Jay Cutler with his 22 int's and counting. No thanks!![/quote]


He still had an average of 9-7, that seems like success. He had 91 wins in 10 seasons, which is 91 and 69, seems like success.

He went to the playoffs 4 times, seems like more success in 10 years then our last 10 years.

So, maybe he didn't have as much as with Elway, but he did have success.

(maybe Campbell is Elway the 2nd :) (I love saying that LOL))

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

If Shanny is hired, that most certainly ends Portis's time in Washington right?

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

[quote=NM Redskin;642209]If Shanny is hired, that most certainly ends Portis's time in Washington right?[/quote]

He'll trade him back for Champ Bailey.

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

I would take that deal in a heartbeat

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;642210]He'll trade him back for Champ Bailey.[/quote]

And a 3rd rounder? Deal! :food-smil

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;642204]Sounds like I could have written the article, it's true. No Elway, no success. And then there's Jay Cutler with his 22 int's and counting. No thanks!![/quote]

Adam Schefter makes a good point about the overused line of Shanahan not winning without Elway...the Broncos had Elway before Shanny and they were not able to win the SB (even with Dan Reeves as the coach...although right before Shanahan took over, Wade Phillips was the HC).

Maybe coaches like Shanahan and Gruden may have won their Superbowl with another coach's players. But, as our team has shown time after time, not only do you need good players, but you need someone to coach them.

Schefter also makes a good point about the Broncos 2006 draft:
Rd 1: Cutler
Rd 2: Schefler
Rd 4: Brandon Marshall
Rd 4: Elvis Dumervil
Rd 5: Chris Kuper (OG)
Rd 6: Greg Eslinger (C)

Out of all these picks, all but Eslinger are starters in the league.

Now Shanahan to DC is just rumors right now, but I just don't see how much people like to crap on the possibility of having him as a coach.

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;642071]Guys, don't worry about Smoot not being around. I'm pretty sure anyone can call up the right people and get info. I'll be right back.

*edit* Ok, so I called Redskins HQ and the NFL office and both of them told me to go f**k myself and that if I didn't stop calling they were going to call the police on me. I guess this is what we in the business call a snag.[/quote]You're Mike Florio?

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

[quote=Ruhskins;642216]

Schefter also makes a good point about the Broncos 2006 draft:
Rd 1: Cutler
Rd 2: Schefler
Rd 4: Brandon Marshall
Rd 4: Elvis Dumervil
Rd 5: Chris Kuper (OG)
Rd 6: Greg Eslinger (C)[/quote]

I guess you could say the same about vinny in drafting except for OL:

Orakpo
Fred Davis
Devin Thomas
Chris Horton
Jeremy Jarmon
Marko Mitchell
Justin Tryon

Some of these are young players coming into their own.

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

Chris Mortenson responded to my question on Twitter. Here is the response.

[B][URL="http://twitter.com/draftreports"]draftreports[/URL][/B]
@[URL="http://twitter.com/mortreport"]mortreport[/URL] Mort you say Shanny done deal with [URL="http://twitter.com/search?q=%23Redskins"]#Redskins[/URL] and Schefter says no deal. Which is it?

[B][URL="http://twitter.com/mortreport"]mortreport[/URL][/B]
@[URL="http://twitter.com/draftreports"]draftreports[/URL] I said book it on Shanahan with Redskins. He can't have a deal "done" until after season.

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;642222]I guess you could say the same about vinny in drafting except for OL:

Orakpo
Fred Davis
Devin Thomas
Chris Horton
Jeremy Jarmon
Marko Mitchell
Justin Tryon

Some of these are young players coming into their own.[/quote]

Yes you could say that too, still Schefter's point is that teams have hits and misses in the draft, and a lot of people here just generalized that Shanahan doesn't know how to draft...and well 3 years later that 2006 draft seems pretty successful and well rounded (well hard to say that Cutler is a success, but I think he could have been a success if he had stayed in Denver).

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

[quote=Ruhskins;642216]

Schefter also makes a good point about the Broncos 2006 draft:
Rd 1: Cutler
Rd 2: Schefler
Rd 4: Brandon Marshall
Rd 4: Elvis Dumervil
Rd 5: Chris Kuper (OG)
Rd 6: Greg Eslinger (C)
[/quote]

That is one ridiculously good draft. I didn't realize that Marshall and Dumervil were both 4th rounders in the same draft.

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

[quote=Ruhskins;642226]Yes you could say that too, still Schefter's point is that teams have hits and misses in the draft, and a lot of people here just generalized that Shanahan doesn't know how to draft...and well 3 years later that 2006 draft seems pretty successful and well rounded (well hard to say that Cutler is a success, but I think he could have been a success if he had stayed in Denver).[/quote]

A good QB is a good QB regardless of the team he plays with. Look at Brady, even when he didn't have good receivers a few years ago he had a great season. Drew Brees, successful in SD and now NO. I rather have Campbell than Cutler who I consider over rated. I like power smashmouth football, none of this pussy finesse offense Shanahan ran, that's why he got his ass kicked in the playoffs by NE, Pittsburgh, etc. and lost his job.

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;642229]A good QB is a good QB regardless of the team he plays with. Look at Brady, even when he didn't have good receivers a few years ago he had a great season. Drew Brees, successful in SD and now NO. I rather have Campbell than Cutler who I consider over rated. I like power smashmouth football, none of this pussy finesse offense Shanahan ran, that's why he got his ass kicked in the playoffs by NE, Pittsburgh, etc. and lost his job.[/quote]

Hate Much?

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;642229]A good QB is a good QB regardless of the team he plays with. Look at Brady, even when he didn't have good receivers a few years ago he had a great season. Drew Brees, successful in SD and now NO. I rather have Campbell than Cutler who I consider over rated. I like power smashmouth football, none of this pussy finesse offense Shanahan ran, that's why he got his ass kicked in the playoffs by NE, Pittsburgh, etc. and lost his job.[/quote]

S I typically agree w/ you but not sure the assessment on Denver's problems toward end of Shanahan's tenure is legit. Denver had a horrible defense more than anything. The offense was coming along nicely year after year but come the playoffs a team has to be competitive on both sides of the ball. I mean half my family are Broncos fans for life and that was the constant complaint...especially how Denver couldn't stop the run.

I think Shany probably tends to concentrate more on offense, and if he has too much say in personnel issues his roster gets imbalanced. With a solid FO in place we should be able to keep our defense pretty competitive. I think we'll need to grab a legitimate LB and maybe a S/CB by next season, but overall it's just a matter of keeping the quality quys intact.

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;642229]A good QB is a good QB regardless of the team he plays with. Look at Brady, even when he didn't have good receivers a few years ago he had a great season. Drew Brees, successful in SD and now NO. I rather have Campbell than Cutler who I consider over rated. I like power smashmouth football, none of this pussy finesse offense Shanahan ran, that's why he got his ass kicked in the playoffs by NE, Pittsburgh, etc. and lost his job.[/quote]

Well that pussy finesse offense went to the playoffs a couple of times, had a number of winning seasons, and won the Super Bowl twice.

Also, you are talking about great QBs being good regardless of the team (since you mentioned Brady), not good QBs. Brady is a great QB, Brees is a great QB, and Peyton is a great QB. Cutler is not, and most good QBs need good teams, yet you mentioned great QBs.

Hell, San Diego didn't think Brees was good enough and they let him go..and well we know what happened. The same you could say about Chad Pennington...although both of these guys also had injury problems...but anyway. I am by no means saying that Cutler is great, all I was saying that maybe he would be as successful as Marshall, Schefler, and Kuper if he had stayed in Denver (and not the "maybe"), but my main point is that this draft was for the most part successful.

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

[quote=Son Of Man;642230]Hate Much?[/quote]

Hate what? Just telling it like it is. I've watched Shanahan from when he was a coach here in Oakland and OC in SF and he was a good OC in SF but was surrounded by a pretty good coaching staff and players. In Denver he won with Elway, after Elway had decent seasons and got his ass whooped by teams like Jacksonville and Brunnell, remember? I think he's over rated same for Gruden and Cowher, I rather we find our own coach, not someone elses recycled coach.

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;642235]Hate what? Just telling it like it is. I've watched Shanahan from when he was a coach here in Oakland and OC in SF and he was a good OC in SF but was surrounded by a pretty good coaching staff and players. In Denver he won with Elway, after Elway had decent seasons and got his ass whooped by teams like Jacksonville and Brunnell, remember? I think he's over rated same for Gruden and Cowher, I rather we find our own coach, not someone elses recycled coach.[/quote]

Well...Shanahan lost to Jacksonville in 1996, the year before they won their back-to-back Superbowls so I don't what you are talking about.

After Elway, Shanahan had 6 winning seasons, and four playoffs appearances in a span of 9 seasons. His playoff loses were to the Ravens, who were on their way to a SB championships, twice to Indy (another team with a pussy finesse offense), and to eventual Superbowl Champ Pittsburgh in 2005. And you are calling this guy overrated?

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

[quote=Ruhskins;642238]Well...Shanahan lost to Jacksonville in 1996, the year before they won their back-to-back Superbowls so I don't what you are talking about.

After Elway, Shanahan had 6 winning seasons, and four playoffs appearances in a span of 9 seasons. His playoff loses were to the Ravens, who were on their way to a SB championships, twice to Indy (another team with a pussy finesse offense), and to eventual Superbowl Champ Pittsburgh in 2005. And you are calling this guy overrated?[/quote]

Here's an interesting article/blog from a Denver fan.

[url=http://wbcc21.blogspot.com/2009/01/some-thoughts-on-mike-shanahans-demise.html]squawking VFR: Some thoughts on Mike Shanahan's demise in Denver[/url]

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

My biggest problem with Shanahan is that he's clearly more interested in coaching again then he is in winning ever again. I'd rather he go play his games somewhere else than my team.

He'll bring in Bob Slowik to be our DC, and Kyle Shanahan to be our OC, and well, we won't have much by way of a coaching staff. I don't think we'll have much of an edge over other playoff teams. But he would correct the major flaw in our rushing attack without majorly overhauling the blocking schemes, and we'd never have to worry about having crappy QB play, because I don't think Shanny would ever trade in Campbell for someone markedly worse than Campbell.

I think a Mike Shanahan offense would be fun to watch, but ultimately, we'd still play most of our games on the margin, and just never be a great super bowl threat under him. I really don't think Shanahan is coming back to win another super bowl. I think he just enjoys coaching a lot.

Which is fine. It's great actually. But we're only going to go as far as our talent carries us, and we don't have very many GREAT players, especially on the offensive side. We have functional talent (and youth), at times, around a pretty good quarterback, who again, isn't a guarantee to be back. A defense coached by Bob Slowik may or may not be better than a Blache coached defense (I can't imagine it would be worse), but again, Shanahan builds around the concept of comfort, rather than excellence.

In other words, I can see why Danny and Shanny are a good fit.

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

To clarify: I'm not saying that Shanahan doesn't want to win. I'm saying he won't do what's necessary to win, if his initial try doesn't work.

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;642240]Here's an interesting article/blog from a Denver fan.

[url=http://wbcc21.blogspot.com/2009/01/some-thoughts-on-mike-shanahans-demise.html]squawking VFR: Some thoughts on Mike Shanahan's demise in Denver[/url][/quote]

Nice article, from a Denver fan. A friend of mine is a huge Denver fan and he probably has a bit of a different opinion from this article. But in the end these are fan opinions.

Still, your argument against Shanahan just leads me to believe that you don't like him personally, which is fine since you are entitled to your personal opinion and I'm not here to change your personal opinion about the guy. But your facts to support your argument are really not strong at all and some are even incorrect.

Is Shanahan right for the Redskins? Only time will tell. He has experience, has coached a Superbowl winning team and has been to the playoffs many times. To me that sounds like a pretty good resume, but no one can come here and claim for certain that he is going to succeed or he is going to fail. I personally go with facts and previous record.

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

[quote=Ruhskins;642245]Nice article, from a Denver fan. A friend of mine is a huge Denver fan and he probably has a bit of a different opinion from this article. But in the end these are fan opinions.

Still, your argument against Shanahan just leads me to believe that you don't like him personally, which is fine since you are entitled to your personal opinion and I'm not here to change your personal opinion about the guy. But your facts to support your argument are really not strong at all and some are even incorrect.

Is Shanahan right for the Redskins? Only time will tell. He has experience, has coached a Superbowl winning team and has been to the playoffs many times. To me that sounds like a pretty good resume, but no one can come here and claim for certain that he is going to succeed or he is going to fail. I personally go with facts and previous record.[/quote]

I rather keep Zorn, rebuild the OL and this team would be good to go. No need to bring "the rat" (Shanahan) check his teeth when he's upset, he looks like a horny rat staring at cheese.

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

[quote=GTripp0012;642243]To clarify: I'm not saying that Shanahan doesn't want to win. I'm saying he won't do what's necessary to win, if his initial try doesn't work.[/quote]

Hey Tripp, on a side note, what do you think about Bruce Campbell (just saw your "Campbell blocking for Campbell")? After seeing the Terps stink it up in football, I really haven't been following them.

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

[quote=Ruhskins;642250]Hey Tripp, on a side note, what do you think about Bruce Campbell (just saw your "Campbell blocking for Campbell")? After seeing the Terps stink it up in football, I really haven't been following them.[/quote]To be honest, he declared today, and it was more about putting something in my user title that sounded swell.

With that said, if he's around when we pick in the second, he's a guy who can play both tackle positions, and while he's not my most favorite OLman in the draft, I wouldn't hesitate to take him if the value was right.

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

[quote=GTripp0012;642253]To be honest, he declared today, and it was more about putting something in my user title that sounded swell.

With that said, if he's around when we pick in the second, he's a guy who can play both tackle positions, and while he's not my most favorite OLman in the draft, I wouldn't hesitate to take him if the value was right.[/quote]

Gotcha...I also noticed this headline about Campbell...I didn't know if it was a headline on ESPN because he's that good of a player or something. The Terps o-line didn't look great this year...but apparently they have him rated as the #24 prospect.

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

The other thing that contributed is that, I don't know if anyone heard, but if Heyer can't go this week, our starting RT (or, guy who will be blocking Justin Tuck) will be some guy named William Robinson.

Not to make this about me, but I'd like to think that I could tell you at least one thing, no matter how basic, about every player in the NFL. I could not tell you anything about William Robinson. This is very depressing, if he's blocking Justin Tuck.

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

[quote=GTripp0012;642256]The other thing that contributed is that, I don't know if anyone heard, but if Heyer can't go this week, our starting RT (or, guy who will be blocking Justin Tuck) will be some guy named William Robinson.

Not to make this about me, but I'd like to think that I could tell you at least one thing, no matter how basic, about every player in the NFL. I could not tell you anything about William Robinson. This is very depressing, if he's blocking Justin Tuck.[/quote]

Just knowing that he's coming from the practice squad is depressing enough...or the fact that he may be worst than Heyer.

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

[quote=Ruhskins;642254]Gotcha...I also noticed this headline about Campbell...I didn't know if it was a headline on ESPN because he's that good of a player or something. The Terps o-line didn't look great this year...but apparently they have him rated as the #24 prospect.[/quote]He's a lot like William Beatty (Giants #2 pick) last year. More quick than powerful, fits the zone scheme that Maryland (and we) like(s) to play. Could provide first round value, but again, a team that would play him right away is hurting for offensive lineman.

Not that the Redskins are hurting for lineman or anything.

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

Lets not jump to conclusions Heyer might go this weekend

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

[quote=pg86;642263]Lets not jump to conclusions Heyer might go this weekend[/quote]well hopefully he'll still be good Monday then :p

Re: Report: Shanahan to DC done deal
 

[quote=pg86;642263]Lets not jump to conclusions Heyer might go this weekend[/quote]I should point out that my film study suggest that Heyer has been our strongest run blocker this year, and really not all that much of a liability in pass protection. But he was a lot better in protection pre-Samuels injury.

He's a fundamentally sound player, generally speaking, but he's never not going to give up 5 or 6 sacks a year, no matter how many developmental resources we spend on him. There will be better options. I'm just not sure they will come as inexpensively.