Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

I'll up your ten
Moss
Portis
Campbell
Collins
Betts
Samuels
Heyer
Thomas(RAndy)
Rabach
Mike Williams
kelly
Randle El

Daniels
Wynn
Griffin
Laron(trade)
Tryon
Smoot

Rock Cartwright

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;644463]I'm still blown out of my mind that people think Portis would generate any kind of favorable draft pick. I'm serious guys, i really believe that he would only get us a 4th round or 3rd round pick. And it's not just his physical condition/injury risk that would warn off teams...its his attitude too.[/quote]You don't consider a 3rd round pick for someone with Portis's mileage "favorable"? Vinny, is that you?!?!?!

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

(1) Chris Samuels
(2) Randy Thomas
(3) Clinton Portis
(4) Stephon Heyer
(5) Santana Moss
(6) ARE
(7) Ladell Betts
(8) LaRon Landry
(9) Fred Smoot
(10) Cornelius Griffin

(11) Renaldo Wynn
(12) Phillip Daniels
(13) Edwin Williams

(14) The entire coaching staff. All of them, no exceptions.

Yeah I know I went over but some of these guys are going to retire anyway.

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

[quote=Mattyk;644423]1) Heyer
2) Portis
3) Randle El
4) Sellers
5) R. Thomas
6) M. Williams
7) Rogers
8) Cartwright
[B]9) Armstrong[/B]
10) W. Montgomery[/quote]

Why cut him? He is our most consistent player.

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;644508]First off, the point of the thread was to ignore salary cap ramifications. Second, you underestimate the value of our players and the stupidity of some NFL personnel folks (Lions, Browns, Raiders, etc.). Third, in an uncapped season dumping bad contracts in some sort of sign and trade is a possibility, even if the compensation is for 4th and lower round picks.

- Portis - some team looking for help at RB with a solid OL would be interested in him for a 1 or 2 year deal.
- Cooley - Pro Bowl TE, he has value.
- Landry - Has physical tools, upstairs seems pretty vacant but some defensive HC will look at him and blame his poor performance on the Skins poor coaching/organization and think they can make a superstar out of him.
- Campbell - as others have said he could be a solid backup or game manager, certainly worth more than a 6th rounder.
- Rogers - meh, if I can't get value keep him next year for depth.

and about pulling heads out of hind-quarters....think before you post.[/quote]

I have put plenty of thought into this and I disagree with the idea that I am undervaluing our players. The people who want to flat out release Haynesworth and Hall for nothing are undervaluing players. And the people who think we are going to get anything near a first round pick or multiple picks for any of these guys are in fantasy land.

You cannot completely ignore the cap numbers because if we trade the guys their contract goes with them. I am not worried about our cap hit, I am talking about the salaries in their current deals.

So there are two problems with Portis. One, a lot of people (I am not one of them) think he is done because of mileage and age. The second problem is his contract. Portis was the highest paid runningback this last year and produced like a backup. Good football teams don't spend ridiculous amounts of money on old runningbacks. Seattle and Arizona did it recently and both were burned. Except for a few guys, runningbacks are interchangeable. Teams would let us release Portis and then sign him but NOBODY is going to trade us anything for him.

Cooley - yes he is worth something but I don't see anyone giving us more than a third. He is expensive for a tight end and his contract would go with him.

Landry is probably the most valuable guy in your list but we would be trading him while his value is at its lowest. We might be able to get a second rounder for him but with his coverage struggles recently, maybe not.

If Campbell was worth a second rounder he would have already been gone and we would have Cutler. So 3rd is the highest possible pick and I am not convinced the interest is out there.

Rogers - I am sure we could get a 3rd rounder for Rogers maybe a 2nd. He is an above average cornerback, solid against the run and is still working off his rookie deal.

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

[quote=tryfuhl;644506]I'd take a 3rd for Portis any day of the week.[/quote]

Me too.

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

1. Randle-El
2. Heyer
3. Cartwright
4. Smoot
5. Will Montgomery
6. Anthony Montgomery
7. Daniels
8. Portis
9. Betts
10. R. Thomas

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

Glad to see more people realizing Santana Moss has just lost it. I've thought that going back a couple of years now. Showboating, (not just last night but last year in Cincy with the "shoe shining" crap) easily schemed out by opposing defenses, flashes of a temper that should have gotten him thrown out of games, the guy just looks more and more like a complete bum.

And yes, the comment about how he'd never play for another owner speaks volumes about the way things are around here.

Ship his ass outta here, I don't care if we don't get a pick for him, I don't care what the cap hit is.

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;644655]I have put plenty of thought into this and I disagree with the idea that I am undervaluing our players. The people who want to flat out release Haynesworth and Hall for nothing are undervaluing players. And the people who think we are going to get anything near a first round pick or multiple picks for any of these guys are in fantasy land.

You cannot completely ignore the cap numbers because if we trade the guys their contract goes with them. I am not worried about our cap hit, I am talking about the salaries in their current deals.

So there are two problems with Portis. One, a lot of people (I am not one of them) think he is done because of mileage and age. The second problem is his contract. Portis was the highest paid runningback this last year and produced like a backup. Good football teams don't spend ridiculous amounts of money on old runningbacks. Seattle and Arizona did it recently and both were burned. Except for a few guys, runningbacks are interchangeable. Teams would let us release Portis and then sign him but NOBODY is going to trade us anything for him.

Cooley - yes he is worth something but I don't see anyone giving us more than a third. He is expensive for a tight end and his contract would go with him.

Landry is probably the most valuable guy in your list but we would be trading him while his value is at its lowest. We might be able to get a second rounder for him but with his coverage struggles recently, maybe not.

If Campbell was worth a second rounder he would have already been gone and we would have Cutler. So 3rd is the highest possible pick and I am not convinced the interest is out there.

Rogers - I am sure we could get a 3rd rounder for Rogers maybe a 2nd. He is an above average cornerback, solid against the run and is still working off his rookie deal.[/quote]

i agree with you about portis... it's one of those deals that if we put him on the trade block, an interested team will not give us anything becasue they know we'll want to cut him, and no one will want to rake his contract...

if we do decide not to keep campbell and tender him (i think we should keep him), you never know what we could get... looking at the contract orlovsky signed with the texans, (3 years, 9 mil!) and these same texans getting a fourth for rosenfels (a 4th!) -- both, now, third stringers... a premium is put on QBs that aren't on any other position... campbell [I]could[/I] fetch a third rounder, maybe a second if someone were desperate enough... i think that campbell has garnered a lot of respect around the league for his handling the cutler/sanchez saga and for the moxie in getting up over and over...

rodgers could have value, but i would try to low-ball him and keep him for depth...

keep landry, let's see what a different/better DC can do with him... he has the talent and the tools to be very good... someone like gregggg williams got that out of him... blache wasted it...

i agree that there is no way you cut haynesworth or d hall... that would be beyond foolish...

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

1. Santana Moss
2. ARE
3. Randy Thomas
4. Clinton Portis
5. Mike Williams
6. Heyer
7. Chris Cooley....try and trade him
8. Carlos Rogers
9. Laron Landry
10. Phillip Daniels
11. Chris Samuels
12. Tryon
13. Anthony Montgomery
14. Fred Smoot

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

OK, Let's take a look at the Logical Cuts, not just base upon passion and disgruntlement following one of the worst home performances in team history.

1) Clinton Portis - (complete shell of his former self)

2) Ladell Betts - (We can all count on more than 2 hands how many practice squad and currently unemployed backs are better than this clown)

3) Colt Brennan - (This publicity stunt bust of a project does not have NFL talent. Lets not waste time, try to find a real diamond in the rough. Brennan, 26, is only 1 year younger than Campbell, 27, and will never be as good as Jason -who is only mediocre himself-. How bout this analogy: Brennan is to Quarterbacking as Zorn is to Coaching. Both are way in over their head. Also Richard Bartell actually has a better arm and more tools to work with than Brennan)

4) Rock Cartwright - (Backup running backs are supposed to have some kind of dynamic trait. Super Speed, Excellent Hands, Exceptional Return man, etc. Rock is no longer a very effective returner. We appreciate everything, but it's time to move on.)

5) Antwaan Randle-El - (Past his prime and salary does not reflect anticipated future contributions. He's no longer a valid punt return option and with the development of the young pass catchers, should fall further down the pecking order.)

6) William Robinson - (Position will be upgraded during off-season)

7) Fred Smoot - (Past his prime and fading fast. Let Barnes and Tryon get the reps, one of them should grow into the future nickleback. We appreciate all the hard work in the past and the great interviews.)

8) Reynaldo Wynn - (Also past prime and fading fast. Thanks for being a grizzled warrior but we need to develop Jarmon and started getting him in on the DE rotations.

9) Philip Daniels - (Past prime/Fading fast, excellent technique guy but no longer has the talent to perform. We REALLY appreciate the loyalty and hunger. Would you like to stick around as a DE coach to teach technique to the young guys and be a presence in the Locker Room?)

10) Kareem Moore - (Questionable ability... Lets rid ourselves of someone that causes opposing QB's to salivate when they see him lined up in the defensive backfield. Can't cover TE's. Position should be upgraded during the offseason and also an attempt made to get Landry to his natural position.)

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

[quote=Mattyk;644423]1) Heyer
2) Portis
3) Randle El
4) Sellers
5) R. Thomas
6) M. Williams
7) Rogers
8) Cartwright
[B]9) Armstrong[/B]
10) W. Montgomery[/quote]

I definitely want him gone. That guy has been fucking it up game in and game out since day 1. ;)

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

What do people think about getting rid of Cooley? I don't think we could get more than a 3rd for him. But this kid Davis is might be a better player. Vinny really got a good one here. This guy can play.

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

[quote=skinsfan69;644696]What do people think about getting rid of Cooley? I don't think we could get more than a 3rd for him. But this kid Davis is might be a better player. Vinny really got a good one here. This guy can play.[/quote]

They are really different types of tight ends. Davis is more of an Antonio Gates athletic-down the field, big YAC potential type while Cooley is more of the Jason Witten solid when you need a 1st down, move the chains, over the middle/in the flats type. I say give Shanny (or whomever) a year to figure out the way to use them both and if not then see what you can get for one of them. The emergence of Davis really makes ARE expendable because we can now show a 2 WR-2 TE set and spread the field out to 4 wide and have mismatches on LB.

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

[quote=mlmdub130;644293]:lol:

whats with all the d hall hate??? he has been our best db this year who would we use next year tryon and barnes[/quote]

I agree some people in here are just plain nut's........ D Hall not going anywhere so get use to that, nor is haynesworth, yea he probably didnt have the pro bowl year we wanted, but we will only be better with him

heyer
dockery
are
moss(time for thomas to step into that #1 role)
rogers
daniels
casey F#@&ing Rabach
yoder
smoot (garbage)
CP ( sad day, but time to move on)

Barnes can move in the #2 spot he got size speed, hit power and hands, just need to goto Deion Prime U for a off season.

Landry goes back to SS, he just don't have that FS instinct, but he can still play SS

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

It makes me sick to think so many of our players just straight up suck. I dont even know how people can defend the Vinny.

The kinda shit he brought is ridiculous. I mean if you throw enough darts in the dark you are bound to hit bullseye a couple times. What a joke.

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

Funny how just recently we were praising some of Vinny's moves and saying we've got some good young talent. One bad loss and it's all out the window? C'mon it's not that dire. This team has some players, but right now with a lame duck staff and a front office transition underway it's almost expected to see a team pack it in.

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

[quote=Paintrain;644705]They are really different types of tight ends. Davis is more of an Antonio Gates athletic-down the field, big YAC potential type while Cooley is more of the Jason Witten solid when you need a 1st down, move the chains, over the middle/in the flats type. I say give Shanny (or whomever) a year to figure out the way to use them both and if not then see what you can get for one of them. The emergence of Davis really makes ARE expendable because we can now show a 2 WR-2 TE set and spread the field out to 4 wide and have mismatches on LB.[/quote]

But having two pass catching TE's does not work IMO. It hurts the explosivness of your offense. IMO Davis is just more of a physical pressence and that's why I say we try and move Cooley.

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

rabach has to be gone. to bad i dont think this years FA centers will be anything like last years.

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

[quote=Mattyk;644722]Funny how just recently we were praising some of Vinny's moves and saying we've got some good young talent. One bad loss and it's all out the window? C'mon it's not that dire. This team has some players, but right now with a lame duck staff and a front office transition underway it's almost expected to see a team pack it in.[/quote]

No question we have good players but they just don't seem to play well together. Especially in the secondary. Talented guys that simply can't cover anyone so I'm not sure what the deal is. Maybe it's the scheme.

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

[quote=SmootSmack;644266]Ok so you're Bruce Allen and you've been tasked with cutting 10 guys right away, [B][I][U]regardless of salary cap ramifications[/U][/I][/B].

Who do you cut? Here's the catch. Each player must have started at least one game this year.[/quote]
Randle El
Griffin
Smoot
Daniels
Moss
Portis
Sellers
Mike Willians
Jones
Campbell

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

[quote=Paintrain;644705]They are really different types of tight ends. Davis is more of an Antonio Gates athletic-down the field, big YAC potential type while Cooley is more of the Jason Witten solid when you need a 1st down, move the chains, over the middle/in the flats type. I say give Shanny (or whomever) a year to figure out the way to use them both and if not then see what you can get for one of them. The emergence of Davis really makes ARE expendable because we can now show a 2 WR-2 TE set and spread the field out to 4 wide and have mismatches on LB.[/quote]

If you people want to trade Cooley, you need another season to figure out the following:

- No matter how good Cooley has been (and is) he has only played 7 games this season and had ankle surgery. I doubt many teams will take a chance or be willing to give up the high draft pick many expect to get from him.
- We need another season to see whether Davis' is a one-year wonder or this year was just the beginning.

Otherwise, I don't see the need to call for a trade right now. As I've repeatedly stated, a team is built with both draft picks and free agency. A bad GM can screw things up with a lot of picks just as they can with picking bad free agents. Whereas a good GM can build a team with both.

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

Coming off a broken ankle Cooley will be 100% by August, probably much earlier, no doubt.

If we could land a 2nd for him I would do it... but that's for Bruce Allen to figure out.

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

Funny thing everyone thought Sellers had earned a new contract and he gets the deal and now sucks $hit out of doggy butts.

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

CP
JC
ARE
Samuels
Tryon
Smoot
Rogers
Heyer
Kelley
Rabach

Plus I can think of a lot more that the Skins would be better off without.

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

[quote=JLee9718;644797]CP
JC
ARE
Samuels
Tryon
Smoot
Rogers
Heyer
Kelley
Rabach

Plus I can think of a lot more that the Skins would be better off without.[/quote]

If you let Smoot, Rogers, and Tryon go, Hall, Westbrook, and Barnes would be the corners. I suppose you could add guys through the draft, but do you really want to spend picks on corners when we have so many needs on offense?

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;644800]If you let Smoot, Rogers, and Tryon go, Hall, Westbrook, and Barnes would be the corners. I suppose you could add guys through the draft, but do you really want to spend picks on corners when we have so many needs on offense?[/quote]
Not cutting Campbell...He needs to to be seen behind a line sorry

Portis
A.R.E
Tyron
Collins will retire
Well I cant really get to ten I think we could do better than Albert.

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;644655]I have put plenty of thought into this and I disagree with the idea that I am undervaluing our players. The people who want to flat out release Haynesworth and Hall for nothing are undervaluing players. And the people who think we are going to get anything near a first round pick or multiple picks for any of these guys are in fantasy land.[/quote]Agree.

[quote]You cannot completely ignore the cap numbers because if we trade the guys their contract goes with them. I am not worried about our cap hit, I am talking about the salaries in their current deals.

So there are two problems with Portis. One, a lot of people (I am not one of them) think he is done because of mileage and age. The second problem is his contract. Portis was the highest paid runningback this last year and produced like a backup. Good football teams don't spend ridiculous amounts of money on old runningbacks. Seattle and Arizona did it recently and both were burned. Except for a few guys, runningbacks are interchangeable. Teams would let us release Portis and then sign him but NOBODY is going to trade us anything for him.[/quote]That's where sign and trade comes in. If my understanding is correct. We redo his contract to an acceptable amount for the new team, sign him to that deal and then trade him. Obviously we have to eat the signing bonus, but it's not a cap hit in an uncapped year. I think we could get a 4th or so for Portis, if so I jump on that deal rather than get nothing.

[quote]Cooley - yes he is worth something but I don't see anyone giving us more than a third. He is expensive for a tight end and his contract would go with him.[/quote]Sign & trade again, and if it's a high third I make the deal, probably a mid-third also.

[quote]Landry is probably the most valuable guy in your list but we would be trading him while his value is at its lowest. We might be able to get a second rounder for him but with his coverage struggles recently, maybe not.[/quote]same with Landry, if I can get a 2nd or high 3rd he's gone, anything lower and I hang onto him. He must be moved to SS in any scenario and can't be used in any type of Cover-2 Zone scheme.

[quote]If Campbell was worth a second rounder he would have already been gone and we would have Cutler. So 3rd is the highest possible pick and I am not convinced the interest is out there.[/quote]Give me a third for Campbell and I'd break my hand trying to sign the deal too fast. I'd take even a fourth for him.

[quote]Rogers - I am sure we could get a 3rd rounder for Rogers maybe a 2nd. He is an above average cornerback, solid against the run and is still working off his rookie deal.[/quote]Agree here too, if we can't get value for him we hang onto him.

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

[quote=wilsowilso;644306]As much as I would like to cut Landry that is not possible. He has value.

Maybe somebody will give us something unexpected for that fool.

Dude is the dumbest player in the league.[/quote]

Draft Taylor Mays and move Landry to Strong Safety.

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

[quote=44Deezel;644997]Draft Taylor Mays and move Landry to Strong Safety.[/quote]

He isn't falling to our second and if we draft another safety with a top 8 pick I am going to put my head through my drywall.

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;644999]He isn't falling to our second and if we draft another safety with a top 8 pick I am going to put my head through my drywall.[/quote]

Trade down then.

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

Ya know whats funny I was thinking something like this the other day. I wondered how many O-lineman we had when someone said cut them all....I figured 4 starters across the board, 4 backups, plus 2. for a total of 10. :)

But I like Heyer as a Guard. Dockery is not bad.

Samuels
R.Thomas
Portis
Betts
Cartwright
Rabach
Williams
Daniels
Wynn
Griffin

Can I go to 15? I don't know why it's so hard for others....

ARE
Moss
Smoot
Tryon
R.Johnson (?)(the O-lineman that Buges commented on at begining of season)

Honestly I'd get rid of the whole O-line and start over if I could. I'd get younger at the RB spot. Keep JC one more year. Have a qualified WR coach actually work with the young guys Thomas, Kelly, and Mitchell to get them ready for next year (something tells me everyone will be pleasantly supprised when we get someone to actually develope them). I'll speak blasphemy....trade Cooley ( I have been against this but we might get an extra pick out of the draft). Pick up an actual blocking TE to compliment Davis. I'm still not giving up on our CB's just yet....maybe change the scheme....Rob Ryan anyone? (I guess he won't be available). Who's a great DC? Oh wait you guys want Gray...right. I'd get rid of Smoot and Rogers if we can find a decent CB or shut down corner. The Giants have shown you don't need a great back field if you have a great DL. Either beef up the DL (Suh anyone) or beef up the back field. Get a true FS.

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

According to Jason Campbell's interview with Kelli Johnson, a number players on this team have "given up." I wonder who they are...

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

ARE
Smoot
Rabach
Williams
Heyer
Cartwright
Betts
Daniels
Collins
Brennen

I could probably go further.

Sellers
Portis

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;645267]According to Jason Campbell's interview with Kelli Johnson, a number players on this team have "given up." [B]I wonder who they are[/B]...[/quote]
i wonder if Mr. Allen is going to have a talk with Mr. Campbell to find out who they are?

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

Rabach
Heyer
ARE
Betts
Jones
Wynn
Smoot
Daniels
Collins
Sellers

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;645267]According to Jason Campbell's interview with Kelli Johnson, a number players on this team have "given up." I wonder who they are...[/quote]

Lets take a few guesses shall we?

Moss
Rogers
The offensive line
The secondary

I think the better question is who on the team hasn't given up yet?

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

[quote=tryfuhl;645463]Rabach
Heyer
ARE
Betts
Jones
Wynn
Smoot
Daniels
[B]Collins[/B]
Sellers[/quote]

Kinda hoping Collins hangs it up. Either way, it's probably smart to get rid of him and bring in a young guy for 2nd string.

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

There are probably 2 or 3 players at most who would be sensible decisions to remove. Portis is one that would clearly make sense based on his salary, performance, and general conduct. After that it all becomes a question of depth at position. The Redskins aren't exactly a deep team at any position so coming up with a long list of cuts simply doesn't make sense.

Re: 10 Cuts-Your Call
 

Portis
ARE
Rabach
wynn
randy thomas
c griff
betts
collins
blache
trade cooley and
trade campbell to the texans for matt schaub