Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;645249]what are you guys thoughts on a DeAngello Williams for Cooley trade?[/quote]

1. The Panthers like Jeff King why change just for the sake of change?

2. Why would the Panthers give up a premier RB for the reduced production of a TE?

3. Why should the Redskins trade for an expensive guy in his prime when you can pick up pretty good backs in the 2nd through 4th rounds for cheaper?

Lets assume for a second that both teams got past the above logic and were actually considering this deal. I want you to consider the following

The RB position is a young mans position. The younger backs are usually more productive. I think that it makes more sense on several levels to trade one of the TE's for picks rather than a player himself. Sure, Williams is productive now but how would he look in Washington? Would this be one of those deals like the CP trade where the production just isn't the same as what we thought we were getting? Why not just use picks to rebuild the line and slip a RB in one of the later rounds? We could then groom him behind our line and let him hit his prime with us. Why not draft another RB in the next years draft as well? We have all seen that it takes 2 backs to tango these days. To me it just seems that trading for a stellar RB is not what it is cracked up to be.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;645224]Davis should be the starting TE next year. Cooley should stay in the starting lineup, replacing the FB in the offense. He can play in the backfield, or on the line, or in the slot and be used to create mismatches all over the field.

I believe you Washingtonian's call it an "H-Back".[/quote]

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/members/chris-cooley.html[/url]

About Chris Cooley OccupationH-Back Washington Redskins

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

Teams utilizing more than 1 quality TEs: Dallas (Witten, Bennett), Green Bay (Lee, Finley), Tennessee (Scaife, Crumpler), Denver (Scheffler, Graham), Miami (Fasano, Haynos), New Orleans (Shockey, Thomas). Obviously, quality is debatable, but it's definitely a likable problem to have with Cooley and Davis showing what they can do.

I think it's safe to say that Davis has the potential to be a stellar TE in this league. I also think people are trying to find ways to figure things out, and one of them would be putting Cooley up as trade bait.

As mentioned previously, the great thing about keeping both of them is the mismatch potential with Davis able to line up in the slot or out wide, or with Cooley re-filling his HB/FB spot. Just because no one has won the Super Bowl with 2 pass-catching TEs doesn't mean it can't happen.

And if it comes down to trading Cooley for picks, so be it. But I'd rather keep them both and use other means to upgrade the holes the Skins currently have.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;645249]what are you guys thoughts on a DeAngello Williams for Cooley trade?[/quote]

If we were to trade Cooley to the Panthers, I'd prefer to get Gross or Otah, not DeAngelo.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

gross or otah won't happen, the only reason I brought it up was because of an espn insider rumor claiming the possibility of Williams going on the trading block next season.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=Angry;645198]What if "C-A-T" really spelled Dog?[/quote]

Exactly. I mean, Fred Davis has looked really solid... for a few games... on a team with a mediocre receiving corps and an O-line so bad that the QB really has no better option than to dump down to the TE. Don't get me wrong, I think Fred Davis is a very solid talent, but it seems like most people are crowning him after 3 or 4 good games in situations that were perfect for him to produce.

Cooley is a 27 year-old multiple pro-bowler (despite multiple systems and offensive lines), and probably our best offensive player overall since he was drafted. So he goes and misses a few games and we're ready to dump him for a guy who has started for all of a month?

There are bigger fish to fry. Trading Cooley fresh off a season ending injury isn't one of them. Hey, Vinny Cerrato you suck! But thanks for Fred Davis, now we can trade one of the best draft picks in team history (Cooley) so your guy can start at TE and all the while we'll still crap all over you while the doorknob hits your ass on the way out. Makes my head spin.

If there's no cap next year, there is no reason not to keep them both on the roster for one more year and see how it pans out.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=GMScud;645488]Exactly. I mean, Fred Davis has looked really solid... for a few games... on a team with a mediocre receiving corps and an O-line so bad that the QB really has no better option than to dump down to the TE. Don't get me wrong, I think Fred Davis is a very solid talent, but it seems like most people are crowning him after 3 or 4 good games in situations that were perfect for him to produce.

Cooley is a 27 year-old multiple pro-bowler (despite multiple systems and offensive lines), and probably our best offensive player overall since he was drafted. So he goes and misses a few games and we're ready to dump him for a guy who has started for all of a month?

There are bigger fish to fry. Trading Cooley fresh off a season ending injury isn't one of them. Hey, Vinny Cerrato you suck! But thanks for Fred Davis, now we can trade one of the best draft picks in team history (Cooley) so your guy can start at TE and all the while we'll still crap all over you while the doorknob hits your ass on the way out. Makes my head spin.

If there's no cap next year, there is no reason not to keep them both on the roster for one more year and see how it pans out.[/quote]

You said it! :food-smil

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

So I guess if you want to just watch one or the other sit on the bench and not do anything, rather then get a pick to address the O Line? 86 > 47

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;645224]Davis should be the starting TE next year. Cooley should stay in the starting lineup, replacing the FB in the offense. He can play in the backfield, or on the line, or in the slot and be used to create mismatches all over the field.

I believe you Washingtonian's call it an "H-Back".[/quote]

Sounds like a plan. A good one at that!

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=53Fan;645542]Sounds like a plan. A good one at that![/quote]

Yea but we can get more value out of CC by trading him, address some of those area's we need, OL and LB or RB, we can get a low first or a high second for him, plus that way there won't be any debates about who should be the starter...... and trading Cooley would be good, because there way to many CC fans than Redskins fan's on the Board, and it should be about team first, nothing wrong with loving a paticular player, but I've heard way to many people say, if Cooley is traded, then their not a Skins fan anymore, well let me let you in on a secret, if on player prevent you from being a Skin's fan, you weren't one in the beginning!!!!

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=Nomad;645579]but I've heard way to many people say, if Cooley is traded, then their not a Skins fan anymore,!![/quote]


who has said this? was it someone on this site? i have not seen or heard one person say that.

my feelings though are no way should the skins trade cooley. cooley is a better TE then davis. the skins should not trade away their most talented players. if anything ,trade davis.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=Nomad;645579]Yea but we can get more value out of CC by trading him, address some of those area's we need, OL and LB or RB, we can get a low first or a high second for him, plus that way there won't be any debates about who should be the starter...... and trading Cooley would be good, because there way to many CC fans than Redskins fan's on the Board, and it should be about team first, nothing wrong with loving a paticular player, but I've heard way to many people say, if Cooley is traded, then their not a Skins fan anymore, well let me let you in on a secret, if on player prevent you from being a Skin's fan, you weren't one in the beginning!!!![/quote]

Can you guarantee the pick we receive will even come close to the production Cooley has had? Are you sure of what picks we would even get? Did you read GTripps post about how having Davis AND Cooley on the field at the same time would create mismatches all over the field? Don't question someones fandom just because you don't understand something or don't agree with how they think. That's kinda retarded but...you know...if the shoe fits..

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=wolfeskins;645582]who has said this? was it someone on this site? i have not seen or heard one person say that.

my feelings though are no way should the skins trade cooley. cooley is a better TE then davis. the skins should not trade away their most talented players. if anything ,trade davis.[/quote]

Then you dont pay that much attention.

Re: Chris Cooley for a 1st and a 3rd -- would you do it?

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Chris Cooley is about the last thing I have left on this team that I enjoy, if they trade him I don't know it would be hard to be a Redskins fan.
__________________
When life gives you paper jams, turn them into paper footballs!

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=Nomad;645611]Then you dont pay that much attention.

Re: Chris Cooley for a 1st and a 3rd -- would you do it? [/quote]


Yes, I'd have to take that trade, and I really like Cooley. A 1st and a 3rd for a TE when you have a solid replacement in house is a deal you jump at, isn't it? A deal like that could help us finally get an offensive line real quick.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=Nomad;645611]Then you dont pay that much attention.

Re: Chris Cooley for a 1st and a 3rd -- would you do it?

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Chris Cooley is about the last thing I have left on this team that I enjoy, [B][U]if they trade him I don't know it would be hard to be a Redskins fan. [/U][/B]
__________________
When life gives you paper jams, turn them into paper footballs![/quote]

ok, thats one,is that it? your right, i don't pay much attention, i missed that one post.:doh:

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=wolfeskins;645625]ok, thats one,is that it? your right, i don't pay much attention, i missed that one post.:doh:[/quote]

I'm not going through every post to show you how many more, you said you never seen it........now you have!!!!! Nontheless, there is no guarentee on anything, we have value in a player to trade, then we should take advantage of that

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

It would be stupid not to consider trading Cooley with the emergence of Davis. With all the major holes in this team we can't afford to have two elite TEs. What we need are draft picks. We need help at OL, DL, CB, RB, and LB.

I do like Cooley and I don't think we HAVE to trade him. But, trading makes more sense than keeping him at this point. Davis has shown us all that he's the forreal. He deserves to be a starter. That's where the problem lies. Which one of them do we keep?

I would say that you keep Davis. He's the younger guy and has a big upside that Cooley right now. Physically, he's more athletic, faster, stronger, and appears to be a better blocker. At least that's they way I see it.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=Landry44;645688]It would be stupid not to consider trading Cooley with the emergence of Davis. With all the major holes in this team we can't afford to have two elite TEs. What we need are draft picks. We need help at OL, DL, CB, RB, and LB.

I do like Cooley and I don't think we HAVE to trade him. But, trading makes more sense than keeping him at this point. Davis has shown us all that he's the forreal. He deserves to be a starter. That's where the problem lies. Which one of them do we keep?

I would say that you keep Davis. He's the younger guy and has a big upside that Cooley right now. Physically, he's more athletic, faster, stronger, and appears to be a better blocker. At least that's they way I see it.[/quote]

With the things going on, it appears as if Randle El will be gone.. Moss becoming perhaps #3 or continues to be #1 (depending on who's the head coach I guess).. Thomas is emerging but he still needs to show more - will he? Kelly, I really believe he has potentials but he seems to be coming on slow.. With no good running backs.. Davis and Cooley are our only guaranteed playmakers - they make plays.. Trading Cooley would only take away our chance to take the offense to another level..

You want more picks? Trade down..

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=GridIron26;645690]With the things going on, it appears as if Randle El will be gone.. Moss becoming perhaps #3 or continues to be #1 (depending on who's the head coach I guess).. Thomas is emerging but he still needs to show more - will he? Kelly, I really believe he has potentials but he seems to be coming on slow.. With no good running backs.. Davis and Cooley are our only guaranteed playmakers - they make plays.. Trading Cooley would only take away our chance to take the offense to another level..

You want more picks? Trade down..[/quote]

We should also strongly consider trading Cooley. We don't need two great players at the same position. One way or the other one of them will be sitting on the bench. I would rather replace a great bench warmer with a young quality OL. I don't have anything against Cooley. I think he's a great player. But we have to do what's best for the team in the long run.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=Landry44;645693]We should also strongly consider trading Cooley. We don't need [B][U]two great players[/U][/B] at the same position. One way or the other one of them will be sitting on the bench. I would rather replace a great bench warmer with a young quality OL. I don't have anything against Cooley. I think he's a great player. But we have to do what's best for the team in the long run.[/quote]

cooley is great but i wouldn't call davis great yet. he still needs to prove he can sustain this level of play year after year. i say both need to be here, at least for training camp and pre season.after that, who knows.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=Nomad;645644]I'm not going through every post to show you how many more, you said you never seen it........now you have!!!!! Nontheless, there is no guarentee on anything, we have value in a player to trade, then we should take advantage of that[/quote]

so was that one comment "way to many" as you say? we have value in lots of players, you wanna trade away all our talent for draft picks?

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

it doesn't make a lot of sense to have 2 quality T.E's. no team would have time to get them both on the field, and be effective

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=dmek25;645738]it doesn't make a lot of sense to have 2 quality T.E's. no team would have time to get them both on the field, and be effective[/quote]

well it might be smart to see which one excells in the new offensive scheme i'm sure were gonna have. plus cooley might have a red flag on him since he's coming off an ankle injury, we may not be able to get good value for him until he proves he's back to normal. even after all that,i'd prolly still not trade him but thats just me.

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=wolfeskins;645737]so was that one comment "way to many" as you say? we have value in lots of players, you wanna trade away all our talent for draft picks?[/quote]

Damn Right! Let's say a team like the Pat's, who has a late first round pick, and will not be bringing there TE back, trade that late first rounder to us, and we get a game changer like C.J Spiller, and we pick up a stud OL and then another in the secound round.... I say that will be worth it..... even though we need OL help, RB is going to have to be addressed soon as well..... I say Davis has showed enough to garner that spot, Cooley which is a awesome weapon, would get us a good draft pick or trade..... So yea I trade it away and take my chances.......

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=Nomad;645760]Damn Right! [B]Let's say a team like the Pat's, who has a late first round pick, and will not be bringing there TE back, trade that late first rounder to us,[/B] and we get a game changer like C.J Spiller, and we pick up a stud OL and then another in the secound round.... I say that will be worth it..... even though we need OL help, RB is going to have to be addressed soon as well..... I say Davis has showed enough to garner that spot, Cooley which is a awesome weapon, would get us a good draft pick or trade..... So yea I trade it away and take my chances.......[/quote]

if you seriously think the new england patriots would consider giving us a first round pick for chris cooley, then i don't know how to have a serious conversation about trading cooley cause that would never happen

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=wolfeskins;645742]well it might be smart to see which one excells in the new offensive scheme i'm sure were gonna have. plus cooley might have a red flag on him since he's coming off an ankle injury, we may not be able to get good value for him until he proves he's back to normal. even after all that,i'd prolly still not trade him but thats just me.[/quote]

some people just don't get it man, but i am right there with you

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=mlmdub130;645878]if you seriously think the new england patriots would consider giving us a first round pick for chris cooley, then i don't know how to have a serious conversation about trading cooley cause that would never happen[/quote]

Then seriously pay attention, I said.... Let's say" meaning what if? which mean's i am throwing it out there, even if its a high second, still a good deal.... If he stays great.... maybe they trade Davis, maybe he did enough, but since he's the better blocker, and Shanny likes the running game...... Well?

Re: What if Fred started 16 games?
 

[quote=Nomad;645881]Then seriously pay attention, I said.... Let's say" meaning what if? which mean's i am throwing it out there, even if its a high second, still a good deal.... If he stays great.... maybe they trade Davis, maybe he did enough, but since he's the better blocker, and Shanny likes the running game...... Well?[/quote]

if some one offered us a first rounder we should take it in a heartbeat, i'm just saying you can throw out all the what if's you want but there is absolutly no way in hell we get anything before the third for cooley, espesically coming off an injury, it's just not gonna happen