Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;645177]Riggins goes to the hospital all week long in traction because of his back, then shows up on Sun. and balls. Meanwhile Mr. Haynesworth hurts his ankle but still finds time to go see basketball, doesn't wear a cast and misses 3 weeks and cries about not having leadership. I can't even believe that you're comparing the two. Wow.[/quote]

Maybe Haynesworth should "retire" for a year...

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;645151]I agree wholeheartedly that Blache needs to go and we need a DC who will more effectively use Big Al. That said, i'm not at all dissatisfied with what we've seen from Haynesworth this year. Haynesworth plays more snaps than almost any other defensive player. When he's on the field, he gives 100% every play. He doesnt stay on the field and "take plays off" like alot of guys. When he's tired, he comes out for a play or two so a guy with fresh legs can give 100%. Haynesworth has been worth every penny and i do not understand the hate he gets here.[/quote]

I'm hoping when the new coaching staff is asembled whoever is head trainer will work with him on his conditioning. That should be his number one priority during the offseason, to come into training camp in better physical condition.

The one thing that concerns me about that little altercation in monday nights game is that it seems to always be the same people involved. I would like to see players cease activity once the whistle blows.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

Its kind of hard to appreciate any player at this point in the season.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=Longtimefan;645184]I'm hoping when the new coaching staff is asembled whoever is head trainer will work with him on his conditioning. That should be his number one priority during the offseason, to come into training camp in better physical condition.

The one thing that concerns me about that little altercation in monday nights game is that it seems to always be the same people involved. I would like to see players cease activity once the whistle blows.[/quote]

The new coaching staff just needs to learn to utilize haynesworth (and orakpo and landry, for that matter) more effectively. It completely baffles me how we've got a defensive coordinator that is grossly misusing 27% of his defensive starters. however, considering his mentor is someone who misused lavar arrington and ran him out of time, we shouldn't be surprised.

as far as the altercation goes, i agree, activity should cease when the whistle blows. however, you've got to give haynesworth props for having the desire to defend his teammates. one thing that i think has been grossly lacking on this team under zorn's tenure is a sense of team.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=firstdown;645185]Its kind of hard to appreciate any player at this point in the season.[/quote]

very true. however, when there's so much to [U]not[/U] appreciate about this team, i'm happy we have a few bright spots (haynesworth, orakpo, fletcher, and fred davis) are about all i can name. perhaps campbell if we forget a couple of unforgivable interceptions.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;645183]Maybe Haynesworth should "retire" for a year...[/quote]

:lol: Yeah like, "If you want me to get mean, show me the green" Riggins?

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;645187]very true. however, when there's so much to [U]not[/U] appreciate about this team, i'm happy we have a few bright spots ([B]haynesworth, orakpo, fletcher, and fred davis) are about all i can name. [/B] perhaps campbell if we forget a couple of unforgivable interceptions.[/quote]

you forgot thomas, i hope

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;645186]The new coaching staff just needs to learn to utilize haynesworth (and orakpo and landry, for that matter) more effectively. It completely baffles me how we've got a defensive coordinator that is grossly misusing 27% of his defensive starters. however, considering his mentor is someone who misused lavar arrington and ran him out of time, we shouldn't be surprised.

as far as the altercation goes, i agree, activity should cease when the whistle blows. however, you've got to give haynesworth props for having the desire to defend his teammates. one thing that i think has been grossly lacking on this team under zorn's tenure is a sense of team.[/quote]

I agree, and the principle I alluded to in reference to the altercation is not limited in scope, it should be applied at all times in every game throughout the league.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;645183]Maybe Haynesworth should "retire" for a year...[/quote]

Bringing the business side to the argument doesn't make any sense to me. Riggins sat out cause he felt like he wasn't being paid enough. Was he a diva? Yep. But that's ok with me. Just show up on Sun. and take care of business and don't wear out your welcome. You never saw Riggins showing up out of shape did you?

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=mlmdub130;645192]you forgot thomas, i hope[/quote]

i've cooled on him a bit. i'm still somewhat pleased with his performance, as I am to some degree with Levi Jones, Rocky McIntosh, DeAngelo Hall and Justin Tryon... they've all had moments where they shined, but not as consistently as the others i mentioned.

The roster needs to undergo some major changes over the next 2-3 years, but we do have some talent to build around.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;645127]The sack total is up and he may help out a little there. But is the defense any better? Are we better against the run? No. You can argue that we're worse. I'm sure the stat guys can compare this year to last years numbers.[/quote]It's a lot of the same old story. The things that are generally in control of the front seven (pass rush, run defense), we're much improved at. The things that are generally in control of the back seven (pass defense) we're way worse at. Everyone still sucks at turnovers, and the last Redskin defender to score a touchdown was still Carlos Rogers against Jon Kitna. Overall, we're an 8-8 defense, again.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;644909]People are always giving him shit, but I'm with saden. He's one of maybe a handful of players who look like they give a shit. I LOVED he punched Jacobs in his stupid face. He's getting his teammates' backs and I respect that.[/quote]

I agree 100% with what you stated. Its Wednesday and I'm still pissed thinking
about what happened to Hall and AH. Hall continued to play until the whistle blew when Jacobs grabbed him by his face mask. He threw Hall to the ground and no other Redskins came over until AH got involved. How in the hell did Jacobs get away with throwing punches and grabbing a face mask while Hanyesworth gets flagged for throwing punches. What a Fu*king joke the Refs are for not seeing that crap. Why not review that incident to see what caused the incident? NFL get this kind of stuff right next time. We stop the Giants on that series and we get flagged for the personal foul. Thanks Refs.....

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;644934]Are you kidding me w/ this silly thread??? AH takes so many damn plays off it's not even funny. He's lazy, he's not in shape, he showed up out of shape and it's carried on all through the season and it shows up in his play. Who cares if he slugs a guy when D. Hall is fighting? That's not leadership! It's stupid cause you just got 15 yards. If your fat ass was a leader then you'd get in D. Hall's face and tell him to stop fighting and ball! Haynesworth is the kind of guy you can't win with cause your highest paid guy needs to be a leader by example....aka Reggie White. This fat ass is a joke and I don't care if I get flamed.[/quote]


ur high dude. goodbye

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;645173]You need your highest paid guys to be leaders. And when you have your highest paid guys showing up out of shape, taking plays off, constantly getting hurt, jumping off sides, missing games then I've got a problem with that. If he's so hurt then why was his ass down at the Wizards game walking around w/ out a cast? Then you miss the next few games? Tenn knew the deal and that's why they felt he wasn't worth the $. What about the guy on the Rams who said he takes plays off? I'm not saying AH doesn't have heart but BE A PROFESSIONAL. That means be in shape and be a leader and play your ass off. Sorry but I just don't see it. You know who is worth the $ he's being paid? Demarcus Ware. He's what I call a pro. You know who else? The two Williams guys on Minn.[/quote]

Skinsfan69:

I did not want the Redskins to sign Haynesworth to a monster contract. Haynesworth had a history of running into trouble both on the field and off the field. Moreover, he had trouble staying healthy in Tennessee and some people observed that he took a play off every now and again. So, I wasn't particularly thrilled when the Redskins signed him to a 4 year, 48 million dollar deal.

However, I'm not going to pretend that Haynesworth is a bum. He is a dominant force on the interior of the line, something we haven't had since Cornelius Griffin's monster 2004 season. He's managed to rack up 4 sacks and numerous quarterback pressures and tackles for a loss in 11 games, despite being drawing double teams on a routine basis. Haynesworth has also showed effort, intensity, and fire on the field despite receiving a contract which sets him up for life and playing on a really bad team.

Do I think he's worth $12 million per year? Nope, but his deal wasn't totally out of line with the market. Rumor has it that Tampa offered more to Haynesworth than Washington and Baltimore is paying Terrell Suggs the same amount of money for arguably a less productive player. I think that Haynesworth is one of our most talented and most productive players and I'm not going to blame him because the Redskins probably overpaid him by $1-2 million per season.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=Meks;645246]ur high dude. goodbye[/quote]

i think thats the best way to handle this one.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;645252]Skinsfan69:

I did not want the Redskins to sign Haynesworth to a monster contract. Haynesworth had a history of running into trouble both on the field and off the field. Moreover, he had trouble staying healthy in Tennessee and some people observed that he took a play off every now and again. So, I wasn't particularly thrilled when the Redskins signed him to a 4 year, 48 million dollar deal.

However, I'm not going to pretend that Haynesworth is a bum. He is a dominant force on the interior of the line, something we haven't had since Cornelius Griffin's monster 2004 season. He's managed to rack up 4 sacks and numerous quarterback pressures and tackles for a loss in 11 games, despite being drawing double teams on a routine basis. Haynesworth has also showed effort, intensity, and fire on the field despite receiving a contract which sets him up for life and playing on a really bad team.

[B]Do I think he's worth $12 million per year?[/B] Nope, but his deal wasn't totally out of line with the market. Rumor has it that Tampa offered more to Haynesworth than Washington and Baltimore is paying Terrell Suggs the same amount of money for arguably a less productive player. I think that Haynesworth is one of our most talented and most productive players and I'm not going to blame him because the Redskins probably overpaid him by $1-2 million per season.[/quote]

He could be if Blache used him as he was used in Tenn.

To me it's disappointing to hear AH say that he feels Blache isn't letting him attack. I thought back in August Blache was talking of how he was going to change his philosophy in how he used his DT's. Guess not.

[quote]"It's very frustrating coming from Tennessee, going 10-0 … [where] I kinda had the freedom to rush and get upfield and to pressure the quarterback," Haynesworth said. "It's totally different than what I thought here. If they'd let us loose, it'd be a whole lot better. [At Tennessee] I just rushed and they let me go and we won a bunch of games and we was up there in the top two or three on defense and sacks. [Titans defensive coordinator Jim] Schwartz got a head coaching job from it. Maybe we need to try that here."
[/quote]

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;645252]Skinsfan69:

I did not want the Redskins to sign Haynesworth to a monster contract. Haynesworth had a history of running into trouble both on the field and off the field. Moreover, he had trouble staying healthy in Tennessee and some people observed that he took a play off every now and again. So, I wasn't particularly thrilled when the Redskins signed him to a 4 year, 48 million dollar deal.

However, I'm not going to pretend that Haynesworth is a bum. He is a dominant force on the interior of the line, something we haven't had since Cornelius Griffin's monster 2004 season. He's managed to rack up 4 sacks and numerous quarterback pressures and tackles for a loss in 11 games, despite being drawing double teams on a routine basis. Haynesworth has also showed effort, intensity, and fire on the field despite receiving a contract which sets him up for life and playing on a really bad team.

Do I think he's worth $12 million per year? Nope, but his deal wasn't totally out of line with the market. Rumor has it that Tampa offered more to Haynesworth than Washington and Baltimore is paying Terrell Suggs the same amount of money for arguably a less productive player. I think that Haynesworth is one of our most talented and most productive players and I'm not going to blame him because the Redskins probably overpaid him by $1-2 million per season.[/quote]

I'm not blaming him or mad at him for taking the $. Get all you can get and I applaud him for that. But with that comes responsibility. And when I see him showing up to camp out of shape and then taking numerous plays off, constantly on the ground w/ injuries, then question the leadership of the team then that isn't living up to the standard of your contract. How about AH take the lead and start being a leader? This offseason I want him to be a leader. That means coming to all the off season stuff and setting an example. I'm done with him this season cause it's in the toilet. I wonder what guys like Charles Mann and Art Monk think about Big Al.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=GTripp0012;645219]It's a lot of the same old story. The things that are generally in control of the front seven (pass rush, run defense), we're much improved at. The things that are generally in control of the back seven (pass defense) we're way worse at. Everyone still sucks at turnovers, and the last Redskin defender to score a touchdown was still Carlos Rogers against Jon Kitna. [B]Overall, we're an 8-8 defense, again.[/quote][/B]

[B]I thought last year we had a playoff defense. A second tier defense which I would call above average. This year we do not have one yet we added AH and Orakpo. [/B]

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;645265]He could be if Blache used him as he was used in Tenn.

To me it's disappointing to hear AH say that he feels Blache isn't letting him attack. I thought back in August Blache was talking of how he was going to change his philosophy in how he used his DT's. Guess not.[/quote]

like i said before it's the same story from another pro bowler. jason taylor said the same exact thing last year, blache is a huge problem with our d right now, he gets guys that are great at one thing and then says why don't you try doing it a different way here

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=Meks;645246]ur high dude. goodbye[/quote]

don't hurt my feelings. :-(

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;645271][/B]

[B]I thought last year we had a playoff defense. A second tier defense which I would call above average. This year we do not have one yet we added AH and Orakpo. [/B][/quote]

thats on blache he is mis-using both of them!!!!

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;645268]I'm not blaming him or mad at him for taking the $. Get all you can get and I applaud him for that. But with that comes responsibility. And when I see him showing up to camp out of shape and then taking numerous plays off, constantly on the ground w/ injuries, then question the leadership of the team then that isn't living up to the standard of your contract. How about AH take the lead and start being a leader? This offseason I want him to be a leader. [B]That means coming to all the off season stuff and setting an example[/B]. I'm done with him this season cause it's in the toilet. I wonder what guys like Charles Mann and Art Monk think about Big Al.[/quote]

As far as I know he was here all last offseason and didn't skip anything.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=GTripp0012;645070]The above post had not one thing to do with stats. I can pull out all sorts of fancy metrics that pinpoint exactly where our defense ranks and what our pass rush ranks and such, but there's nothing that would justify the above.

Like you said, I think the Titans are missing him, but he had 8 sacks last year with them. I think our scheme is primarily responsible for the downturn in production. And I think he's been great here, particularly in short yardage situations. I think there's a whole number of stats that would show his impact for our team. But ultimately, I feel that there's not enough there to suggest that Carter and Orakpo's production is due to anyone except themselves.[/quote]

I guess that if you look at it in the sense of them both seeing mostly single teams with maybe a RB at best helping, yes they've done that, so you could attribute it to what they've been able to do. I also think that there's a reason that they're seeing single teams and that's where Haynesworth comes in.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;645138]Hall didn't grab Jacobs' facemask. Jacobs grabbed Hall's and then threw a punch[/quote]
Didn't someone take a swing or shove to Doughty too when he came in to hold his own player back? I'm vaguely recalling that.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;645265]He could be if Blache used him as he was used in Tenn.

To me it's disappointing to hear AH say that he feels Blache isn't letting him attack. I thought back in August Blache was talking of how he was going to change his philosophy in how he used his DT's. Guess not.[/quote]

Ditto. I hope that next year Blache is gone and the new guy will free AH and put Orakpo's hand on the ground.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=tryfuhl;645298]I guess that if you look at it in the sense of them both seeing mostly single teams with maybe a RB at best helping, yes they've done that, so you could attribute it to what they've been able to do. I also think that there's a reason that they're seeing single teams and that's where Haynesworth comes in.[/quote]Haynesworth is also seeing a lot of single teams though, at least for a defensive tackle. I'm not saying he doesn't get doubled a lot, I'm saying that defensive tackles get doubled a lot because they line up close to the QB, and have to be stopped. Haynesworth doesn't seem to draw more double teams than Griffin. He's just better than Griff at beating the 1 on 1s when he gets them. As you would expect.

I'll say this: when the guy lines up at DE, he draws two blockers much more often than the normal DE. And when he doesn't, that's when he does most of his damage. He can beat most OTs in the league, which is a rare ability for a DT and it's why he's getting paid so much.

But when he's playing DE, it means that either Orakpo or Carter are not. It's a fun wrinkle with a toy like Haynesworth, but ultimately, it's one of the reasons I believe that Carter and Orakpo have a bigger effect on each other than Haynesworth does on either. We try to isolate Albert.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;645173]You need your highest paid guys to be leaders. And when you have your highest paid guys showing up out of shape, taking plays off, constantly getting hurt, jumping off sides, missing games then I've got a problem with that. If he's so hurt then why was his ass down at the Wizards game walking around w/ out a cast? Then you miss the next few games? Tenn knew the deal and that's why they felt he wasn't worth the $. What about the guy on the Rams who said he takes plays off? I'm not saying AH doesn't have heart but BE A PROFESSIONAL. That means be in shape and be a leader and play your ass off. Sorry but I just don't see it. You know who is worth the $ he's being paid? Demarcus Ware. He's what I call a pro. You know who else? The two Williams guys on Minn.[/quote]

Please go back to ES if you want to just spout off ridiculous stuff.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;645194]Bringing the business side to the argument doesn't make any sense to me. Riggins sat out cause he felt like he wasn't being paid enough. Was he a diva? Yep. But that's ok with me. Just show up on Sun. and take care of business and don't wear out your welcome. You never saw Riggins showing up out of shape did you?[/quote]
Maybe Haynesworth should show up drunk or hungover.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

But ultimately, we're now the second ranked pass rush in [URL="http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl"]Adjusted Sack Rate[/URL]. Only Miami is ahead of us. Regardless of the effect than Haynesworth is having on Orakpo and Carter, the three of them (plus Alexander and Chris Wilson as well) are getting it done.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=tryfuhl;645310]Maybe Haynesworth should show up drunk or hungover.[/quote]

and with nachos!!! double cheese!!!

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=GTripp0012;645306]Haynesworth is also seeing a lot of single teams though, at least for a defensive tackle. I'm not saying he doesn't get doubled a lot, I'm saying that defensive tackles get doubled a lot because they line up close to the QB, and have to be stopped. Haynesworth doesn't seem to draw more double teams than Griffin. He's just better than Griff at beating the 1 on 1s when he gets them. As you would expect.

I'll say this: when the guy lines up at DE, he draws two blockers much more often than the normal DE. And when he doesn't, that's when he does most of his damage. He can beat most OTs in the league, which is a rare ability for a DT and it's why he's getting paid so much.

But when he's playing DE, it means that either Orakpo or Carter are not. It's a fun wrinkle with a toy like Haynesworth, but ultimately, it's one of the reasons I believe that Carter and Orakpo have a bigger effect on each other than Haynesworth does on either. We try to isolate Albert.[/quote]

Ahh, I can definitely see where you're coming from, you've obviously broken it down more than I have.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;645271][/b]

[B]I thought last year we had a playoff defense. A second tier defense which I would call above average. This year we do not have one yet we added AH and Orakpo. [/B][/quote]

so who are you blaming for that? are you saying orakpo and haynesworth have made our defense worse?

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=mlmdub130;645273]like i said before it's the same story from another pro bowler. jason taylor said the same exact thing last year, blache is a huge problem with our d right now, he gets guys that are great at one thing and then says why don't you try doing it a different way here[/quote]

I like Blache but he will not conform his scheme to fit the strength of his personnel. Jason Taylor for sum odd reason is having a very good season in Miami , maybe they can give Blache a few tips.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;645130]Get outta with that child's play nonsense. As I said, two different situations. The QB was hit late out of bounds and then Hall went back and started talking shit and he was looking for a fight on the Atlanta bench. Smith got in his face and took up for his QB. Did Mike Smith throw a punch? No. Meanwhile Hall is out there again causing trouble talking shit. Just go back to the damn huddle. I realize that jacobs hit him first but Hall actually grabbed his face mask first. You're getting your ass beat. Just play ball and stop all the chatter. AH came to his defense AGAIN. Did Darrell Green ever get in fights like this????[/quote]

Dude just give it up...so Jacobs hit Hall first and Hall is supposed to take a hit and just shut up? And where's this facemask you speak of? Go back to the clip and check it again, Jacobs started to his Hall and then #65 came and threw Hall into the ground. F'ing Jacobs was just mad that Hall stripped him of the ball.

Seriously, just stop posting. You obviously have a personal bias against Hall and Haynesworth, to the point that you're ok with one them getting mugged for no f'ing reason by two Giants. Sheesh, turn your f'ing fan card.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=wolfeskins;645324]so who are you blaming for that? are you saying orakpo and haynesworth have made our defense worse?[/quote]

No, just Mr. Haynesworth. Incidentally, a tool is not as good as its user.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=wolfeskins;645324]so who are you blaming for that? are you saying orakpo and haynesworth have made our defense worse?[/quote]

I think it's a chemistry thing. We've got good players, talented players but for what ever reason they're not playing well together. Maybe it's Blache, maybe not. Maybe the new DC will let AH do this thing. We'll see.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=tryfuhl;645310]Maybe Haynesworth should show up drunk or hungover.[/quote]

Say what you want but Riggo showed up on Sunday and he was never out of shape and never rolled around on the group flapping around like a fish out of water.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

Does anyone know if skinsfan69 and irish are the same people?

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;645373]Dude just give it up...so Jacobs hit Hall first and Hall is supposed to take a hit and just shut up? And where's this facemask you speak of? Go back to the clip and check it again, Jacobs started to his Hall and then #65 came and threw Hall into the ground. F'ing Jacobs was just mad that Hall stripped him of the ball.

Seriously, just stop posting. You obviously have a personal bias against Hall and Haynesworth, to the point that you're ok with one them getting mugged for no f'ing reason by two Giants. Sheesh, turn your f'ing fan card.[/quote]

It's not personal at all. I don't like Hall cause he's a punk. Trouble seems to follow the guy. Jacobs slugged him for a reason. You didn't see guys just taking swings at Darrell Green did you? You don't see Champ Bailey getting into fights, Or the guy on Oakland. Hall's been a bitch ever since he came into the NFL. Same with Landry. All I want AH to do is be a pro, and if he's not then I'll call him out. Sorry but I just don't drink the Kool Aid like you do.

Re: Haynesworth Appreciation Thread
 

I will wait and see how things pan out next year , as we could have a new coach & Def.C .... more aggresive scheme before I judge big Al . As far as sacks by our ends , big Al was not playing in some of the games Orakpo got the sacks . 2010 , will not get here soon enough .