Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=Longtimefan;651898]If we do not up-grade our personnel department, when it comes to the draft and free agency we'll have to rely heavily on our scouting department. I'm not so sure that's a good thing.[/quote]

I'd imagine Jim and/or Jeff Goodman will be added in the next few weeks, if not days, to the front office. Jim Goodman will probably replace Scott Campbell.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

Whats this Jeff Goodman all about? Would this be considered an upgrade in league circles?

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=Longtimefan;651898]If we do not up-grade our personnel department, when it comes to the draft and free agency we'll have to rely heavily on our scouting department. I'm not so sure that's a good thing.[/quote]

Yup. I'm on the edge of my seat to see how we set up personnel and scouting. We need strong people there to make up for any personnel deficiencies which Shanahallen might bring to the table. Maybe the Goodmans will come in, as SS has hinted. I wish we could bring in Jimmy Raye. That guy knows how to build a roster.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

I agree, but coming in with no expectations would be boring. We always make it look like were ready to take over. But im sure this years different. . .

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=celts32;651914]Whats this Jeff Goodman all about? Would this be considered an upgrade in league circles?[/quote]

Jeff Goodman? Doubt it. I mean he's considered an up and comer. He's young though. If anything he could be like a Bruce Allen apprentice-both are more about the business side of things. Goodman has a law degree and he's smart about organizational structure, contract negotiating etc. It's possible if he arrives that Eric Schaffer wouldn't return.

Jim Goodman essentially oversaw the draft process for the Broncos from 2005-2008. Is he much of an upgrade over Campbell? I'm not sure

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;651920]Jeff Goodman? Doubt it. I mean he's considered an up and comer. He's young though. If anything he could be like a Bruce Allen apprentice-both are more about the business side of things. Goodman has a law degree and he's smart about organizational structure, contract negotiating etc. It's possible if he arrives that Eric Schaffer wouldn't return.

Jim Goodman essentially oversaw the draft process for the Broncos from 2005-2008. Is he much of an upgrade over Campbell? I'm not sure[/quote]

who do you hear we may bring in to fill the "void" in terms of personnel decisioning? adding goodman and neglecting the personnel aspect is kind of like continuing to draft skill position players while neglecting the lines.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

Jim Goodman and Morocco Brown I suspect will be leading that

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

Excellent news for Brown. Part of me would rather have someone with more experience in the mix, but I'd hate to bring in someone else and lose Brown. He seems like a smart fellow from everything ive read about him as well as from listening to his appearances on cerratos old show.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;651884]Paintrain:

Indeed the Redskins of the mid-90s were not very good. The John Kent Cooke years left a lot to be desired when compared to the Jack Kent Cooke years.

However, when Danny Boy bought the team in the midst of the 99 season, he bought a team that made the playoffs. The team was not great and was not destined to become a dynasty, but it was solid and won more games than it lost.

The next year, the Skins were over .500 when Danny Boy fired Norv Turner in the middle of the year and the issue that caused the flare-up was that Norv refused to put Jeff George in as the starting QB. Amazingly, when Terry Robiske took over as interim coach, he surveyed the scene and decided that Jeff George was just the guy to lead the Skins; how insightful of him.

Oh, that was the year that the recently acquired Deion Sanders talked about not knowing "Coach Rabinsky" very well. Lots of respect in that locker room for and from the new acquisitions to the team courtesy of the Boy Wonder.

Danny Boy is not nearly the worst owner in sports. But what he did in his first ten years of ownership here was to take a solid-but-hardly-great squad, tear it apart to add "marquee players" and put the fans in DC thru a decade of less than mediocre football.

The fact that the Redskins are the second highest grossing franchise in sports - - not sure if that is still true - - means exactly NOTHING regarding the product on the field.[/quote]
You won't hear a word of disagreement from me on anything you said. I was just wondering how one quantified the 'worst owner in all of sports.'

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=GMScud;651706]So I've done some reading, some thinking, and some presser watching today. We've known Shanahan was going to be named coach for a while. After reading hundreds of posts on here today, there is plenty of elation. Everyone is stoked. Plenty of "FINALLY!" type statements.

Don't get me wrong, I think Shanahan/Allen is a positive move for sure. But I'm skeptical nonetheless. I've gotten too excited by this franchise before. "Oh wow, we signed HIM?? Oh wow, HE'S gonna be our coach?? Man I can't wait till training camp!!" Sound familiar? We've all been down this road too many times in the past 10+ years.

Marty Schottenheimer? Oh man, he's going to have complete control. He'll turn this thing around... Steve Spurrier? What an innovator he is. He'll surely revolutionize our passing game... Joe Gibbs? My gosh, the Lord of the Rings will without question boost us back up to the NFL's elite...

Yeah, not so much. I'm happy Mike Shanahan is our head coach. I'm also happy that Bruce Allen is running the show. If he is in fact running the show. I love the Washington Redskins. But at this point, I'll believe it when I see it. Hail.

A few good reads:

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/06/AR2010010602367.html"]washingtonpost.com[/URL]
[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/06/AR2010010604596.html"]washingtonpost.com[/URL]
[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/06/AR2010010604736.html"]washingtonpost.com[/URL][/quote]

I feel like I'm completely in the same boat. Usually when we get our new head coach it's like, oh boy this time it should work, I can't see anything I don't like so far.

But this time it's just like, I don't know what to expect, I've been too excited before, and this latest season convinced me we have much deeper problems than just a couple injuries or missing players. Like, our franchise will never be successful unless something drastically changes, not just the coach/Vinny getting fired.

I mean I could list all the feelings I've felt throughout the years whenever we started over with a new coach. It's like:

Zorn - Well Gibbs left the roster in pretty good shape and if Snyder and Cerrato really think this guy is not just good enough to be a OC but a head coach as well then the odds are pretty decent that this works out. Besides I've grown to like the idea of hiring unproven talent and finding that next gem in the coaching ranks.

Gibbs - Well if anybody can fix what Spurrier did it will be Gibbs. How can you question this? Man won 3 SB's for us and we were hella good back in his day. Even at his worst he'll upgrade the team seriously from Spurrier's days

Spurrier - well he was a great college coach and I like the idea of the fun'n'gun, a great aerial attack is something I'd love to see. Good idea by Snyder and co.

Shotty - Well he's proven so that's a good thing. Also I don't know much about football seeing as how I was 13ish at the time and was still feeling my way around it.

Turner - too young to really understand. At that age I was like, oh we try and score, and the defense tries to stop the other team from scoring. Shouldn't be too hard. All the head coach has to do is make sure everything's copacetic (sp?).

So long story short I'm not even cautiously optimistic. I'm still in wait and see mode, aka talk is cheap these days and the actions of this franchise will prove over time if a serious change has been made from the days of old.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=mooby;652081]I feel like I'm completely in the same boat. Usually when we get our new head coach it's like, oh boy this time it should work, I can't see anything I don't like so far.

But this time it's just like, I don't know what to expect, I've been too excited before, and this latest season convinced me we have much deeper problems than just a couple injuries or missing players. Like, our franchise will never be successful unless something drastically changes, not just the coach/Vinny getting fired.

I mean I could list all the feelings I've felt throughout the years whenever we started over with a new coach. It's like:

Zorn - [B]Well Gibbs left the roster in pretty good shape[/B] and if Snyder and Cerrato really think this guy is not just good enough to be a OC but a head coach as well then the odds are pretty decent that this works out. Besides I've grown to like the idea of hiring unproven talent and finding that next gem in the coaching ranks.

Gibbs - Well if anybody can fix what Spurrier did it will be Gibbs. How can you question this? Man won 3 SB's for us and we were hella good back in his day. Even at his worst he'll upgrade the team seriously from Spurrier's days

Spurrier - well he was a great college coach and I like the idea of the fun'n'gun, a great aerial attack is something I'd love to see. Good idea by Snyder and co.

Shotty - Well he's proven so that's a good thing. Also I don't know much about football seeing as how I was 13ish at the time and was still feeling my way around it.

Turner - too young to really understand. At that age I was like, oh we try and score, and the defense tries to stop the other team from scoring. Shouldn't be too hard. All the head coach has to do is make sure everything's copacetic (sp?).

So long story short I'm not even cautiously optimistic. I'm still in wait and see mode, aka talk is cheap these days and the actions of this franchise will prove over time if a serious change has been made from the days of old.[/quote]

Our offensive line was on a downward slope when Joe Gibbs was here and he has to take some of the blame for our line being where it is now. Who built the Hogs anyway????

Let's wait and see who Shannahan builds his staff with before we jump on him. If rumors of Jerry Gray as our DC turn out to be true, then I might be the first one to question Shanny.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

Well, I haven't really seen this mentioned, and I may be reading too much into the few interviews I've seen, but here is my tempered expectation.
The 3 main guys right now are, BA MS and Kyle. All have sounded upbeat and positive, but one theme seems to be buried deep in their statements: They expect to argue thru their disagreements: Shanny said repeatedly, he expects Allen to challenge him. In the Texans interview piece Kyle spoke enthusiastically about working with his dad, but mentioned in several ways that he and his dad have gotten into it over things and his dad usually wins. BA seems like a key to this not getting out of control, he will have to negotiate the churning waters and make sure that feelings/emotions don't take over.

I certainly expect everyone to work together professionally and capably, but Redskins stress has been known to crack the hardest of shells.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;652239]Well, I haven't really seen this mentioned, and I may be reading too much into the few interviews I've seen, but here is my tempered expectation.
The 3 main guys right now are, BA MS and Kyle. All have sounded upbeat and positive, but one theme seems to be buried deep in their statements: They expect to argue thru their disagreements: Shanny said repeatedly, he expects Allen to challenge him. In the Texans interview piece Kyle spoke enthusiastically about working with his dad, but mentioned in several ways that he and his dad have gotten into it over things and his dad usually wins. BA seems like a key to this not getting out of control, he will have to negotiate the churning waters and make sure that feelings/emotions don't take over.

I certainly expect everyone to work together professionally and capably, but Redskins stress has been known to crack the hardest of shells.[/quote]

Good observations. I think over the next few years we are going to see how much BA has diplomatic skills...or not.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

good analysis CRR. I agree BA is the key to everything. He definitely has all the "diplomatic" skills. Since personnel issues are a weakness for both him and Shanahan, I would not mind at all if BA ends up being promoted to Team President and another GM is brought in. BA certainly seems to have all the intangibles of someone you want [B][U]LEADING[/U][/B] the organization.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

We've had some soft coaches in the past several years.. I think that Shanahan at least brings back some sort of "earn your spot" type of leadership and gets us more tight-knit. That can only help us work together as a team better.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;651862]Oh yeah... pie and pudding. It's what we're good for here.

I like old school butterscotch pudding, hell even some good ol' rice is good too.[/quote]

I was just about to suggest butterscotch or rice but didn't want to continue the hijack. You sir, have fine taste in pudding.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=WaldSkins;652087]Our offensive line was on a downward slope when Joe Gibbs was here and he has to take some of the blame for our line being where it is now. Who built the Hogs anyway????

Let's wait and see who Shannahan builds his staff with before we jump on him. If rumors of Jerry Gray as our DC turn out to be true, then I might be the first one to question Shanny.[/quote]

I said pretty good shape, not "we have no holes whatsoever". And back in '07 our line wasn't that bad, sure downward slope maybe but Zorn coulda done plenty to shore it up before the '08 and '09 seasons. He had 2 offseasons to get a new guy or two in there and the only guy we really got that will be here awhile looks like Dockery.

FYI I'm not jumping on him, just saying that hiring a new GM/HC isn't making me break out the rose colored glasses again.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

How can you break the rose colored glasses yet or have reservations about whether Allen and Shanny can turn it around. 7 HCs in 10 years? Different systems, coaches, players, and same crap result with the exception of the rare playoff appearances. And even those sucked. Norv had the only really decent playoff team in that 10 year stretch and he got canned. Only smart thing to do is have subdued positivism. It is nice a GM was hired, but that in itself doesn't guarantee success. Don't get me wrong I am excited, but I am not going to give myself all giddy until I see some positive results where they count and that is on the field!!!!!!

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

Line didn't suck in 2007, Portis still was productive for the most part. In '08 it slid, but was still OK. THis year age finally took its toll with the injuries. Thing was the FO thought short term while they needed to invest in young linemen via the draft or even FA. The thinking under Snyder has always been in the short term, try and turn it a round within one offseason or two. That wasn't ever going to happen.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;652688]How can you break the rose colored glasses yet or have reservations about whether Allen and Shanny can turn it around. 7 HCs in 10 years? Different systems, coaches, players, and same crap result with the exception of the rare playoff appearances. And even those sucked. Norv had the only really decent playoff team in that 10 year stretch and he got canned. Only smart thing to do is have subdued positivism. It is nice a GM was hired, but that in itself doesn't guarantee success. Don't get me wrong I am excited, but I am not going to give myself all giddy until I see some positive results where they count and that is on the field!!!!!![/quote]

Totally, this probably resembles the Marty hire as much as anything...if Snyder even tones down his meddling and we don't big time miss in this draft (or the next few drafts), we should be okay for the next few years.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

So, what are the chances Snyder wants to have 1-2 hour meetings to break down film with Shanahan, too?

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2010/01/jim_zorn_broke_down_game_film.html]D.C. Sports Bog - Jim Zorn broke down game film with Dan Snyder[/url]

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=WaldSkins;652087]Our offensive line was on a downward slope when Joe Gibbs was here and he has to take some of the blame for our line being where it is now. [B]Who built the Hogs anyway????[/B]

Let's wait and see who Shannahan builds his staff with before we jump on him. If rumors of Jerry Gray as our DC turn out to be true, then I might be the first one to question Shanny.[/quote]
Bobby Beathard, He should be credited for assembling the Hogs, but also Bugel for doing a great job coaching them up.. I'm hoping between Allen and Shanny they adress the O-line first and formost of all of our personell problems. The Redskins will be very fortunate if these two can aquire half the tallent on o-line that Beathard did in the 80's..

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;653732]So, what are the chances Snyder wants to have 1-2 hour meetings to break down film with Shanahan, too?

[URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2010/01/jim_zorn_broke_down_game_film.html"]D.C. Sports Bog - Jim Zorn broke down game film with Dan Snyder[/URL][/quote]

Sounds like that's over with thankfully

[quote]
sometime during the season the weekly film sessions stopped, perhaps as part of the broader changes instituted by Allen. For example, Hellie also talked to a player recently who had attempted to see the owner to lobby for his positional coach to keep his job.

"He was literally stopped at the door by the secretary, who said all football matters have to go through Bruce Allen," Hellie told me. Which seems to make some amount of sense.
[/quote]

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

Great thread topic by the way.

All Skins fans should take the enthusiasm out of the front office moves until their is on field production yielded from them.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;653732]So, what are the chances Snyder wants to have 1-2 hour meetings to break down film with Shanahan, too?

[URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2010/01/jim_zorn_broke_down_game_film.html"]D.C. Sports Bog - Jim Zorn broke down game film with Dan Snyder[/URL][/quote]

Oh god. The Danny and Zorn breaking down film together? I can only imagine how hard other NFL coaches and Execs would laugh at that scene.

I did read one great thing in that post:

[I]Anyhow, sometime during the season the weekly film sessions stopped, perhaps as part of the broader changes instituted by Allen. For example, Hellie also talked to a player recently who had attempted to see the owner to lobby for his positional coach to keep his job.[/I]

[I]"He was literally stopped at the door by the secretary, who said all football matters have to go through Bruce Allen," Hellie told me. Which seems to make some amount of sense.[/I]

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;653751]Great thread topic by the way.

All Skins fans should take the enthusiasm out of the front office moves until their is on field production yielded from them.[/quote]

I thought it only fitting given the elation around the Shanahan/Allen thing despite how many times we've been burned in the past 10 years.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;653732]So, what are the chances Snyder wants to have 1-2 hour meetings to break down film with Shanahan, too?

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2010/01/jim_zorn_broke_down_game_film.html]D.C. Sports Bog - Jim Zorn broke down game film with Dan Snyder[/url][/quote]

BUT BHA, did you read the last paragraph of this article:
[quote]For example, Hellie also talked to a player recently who had attempted to see the owner to lobby for his positional coach to keep his job.

"He was literally stopped at the door by the secretary, who said all football matters have to go through Bruce Allen," Hellie told me. Which seems to make some amount of sense.[/quote]
This indicates that yes in the past players walked straight up to Snyder's office (as we assumed), interestingly he was directed to Allen, not Shanahan, so there is some level of equality and separation, and BA is taking full control of the GM level issues. Seems like a good end to an otherwise unsettling article.

Also, I still don't mind if DS sits in on game film study, but what was the "Shudder" part is that JZ felt if he didn't do it, someone else(VC) would do it, and manipulate DS through it. Anyone else still rejoicing that VC is gone?!

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=GMScud;653753]I thought it only fitting given the elation around the Shanahan/Allen thing despite how many times we've been burned in the past 10 years.[/quote]

[COLOR=DarkRed]*****
I just re-read what I wrote and noticed that I accidentally put "their" when I should have put "there"

That is a typo and not a lack of knowing the correct usage of "there".

...I really can't stand when people do that so I wanted to correct it.
*****[/COLOR]

Expectations should be tempered just on the fact that our team needs to be overhauled just to get the right personnel for these coaches in the appropriate places. Our OL needs to be overhauled and that alone is 5 positions of starters/backups that need to be addressed.


Rome wasn't built in a day and if you think it can be then you're suffering from the same lack of foundation that the Skins have.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;653769]BUT BHA, did you read the last paragraph of this article:

This indicates that yes in the past players walked straight up to Snyder's office (as we assumed), interestingly he was directed to Allen, not Shanahan, so there is some level of equality and separation, and BA is taking full control of the GM level issues. Seems like a good end to an otherwise unsettling article.

Also, I still don't mind if DS sits in on game film study, but what was the "Shudder" part is that JZ felt if he didn't do it, someone else(VC) would do it, and manipulate DS through it. Anyone else still rejoicing that VC is gone?![/quote]

Ugh. I shudder every time Kevin plays the sound clip of VC saying "for the fans." It literally makes me nauseaus.

BA was definitely "running interference" between the coaches/players and Snyder. The only question is, at what point does Snyder decide to go around Allen to get more involved. Not once, during Snyder's 11 year ownership of the team, has been able to stay out of the way of the men he's hired to do their jobs. Everything seems all rosey to some folks here, but what happens if Shanahan starts 2-6 in his second year with the team? Only then will we really know if things have truly changed.

People can make all the arguments they want about how its Snyders team and he should have "X" amount of involvement. But history has shown that whenever Snyder meddles, he makes a bad situation even worse.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;653732]So, what are the chances Snyder wants to have 1-2 hour meetings to break down film with Shanahan, too?

[URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2010/01/jim_zorn_broke_down_game_film.html"]D.C. Sports Bog - Jim Zorn broke down game film with Dan Snyder[/URL][/quote]

Hellie asked the coach why he would take the time to do that with everything else he had on his docket. Zorn in turn explained that Snyder had wanted someone to watch tape with him and that "If someone was going to explain to him why plays were called and why things were run, I wanted it to be me, I didn't want it to be anybody else."


Shudder. Anyhow, sometime during the season the weekly film sessions stopped, perhaps as part of the broader changes instituted by Allen. For example, Hellie also talked to a player recently who had attempted to see the owner to lobby for his positional coach to keep his job.


"He was literally stopped at the door by the secretary, who said all football matters have to go through Bruce Allen," Hellie told me. Which seems to make some amount of sense.

:woot:

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

Perhaps we should temper all negativity as well and truly be in wait and see mode.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;654076]Perhaps we should temper all negativity as well and truly be in wait and see mode.[/quote]

Tempering anything in Redskinsland is an exercise in futility : )

I'll just be happy if we're playing within the confines of a competitive scheme and selecting personnel based on that as well.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;654106][B]Tempering anything in Redskinsland is an exercise in futility : )[/B]

I'll just be happy if we're playing within the confines of a competitive scheme and selecting personnel based on that as well.[/quote]

True, there's no staying medium around here

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

"Stay medium." Isn't that the philosphy of arguably the worst coach in our franchise's history?

Shanahan failed in Denver for two primary reasons:

1) He had final say over personnel and Denver repeatedly made poor personnel decisions
2) He picked poor defensive coordinators

Shanahan's been here a week and we know two things about him.

1) he has final say over personnel
2) He picked a poor defensive coordinator

Taking a "wait and see" approach and expecting to see different results is like watching a child, who has repeatedly put his hand on a hot stovetop, reach for that hot stove stop top again and taking a "wait and see approach" to see if he gets burned. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results... isn't that what we criticized the LAST regime for? Isn't that what we called insanity? So what does that say about those here who are taking a "wait and see" approach as they see history repeating itself over again before their eyes?

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

Ugh we get it dude, you hate everything the team does right now and we're doomed. Personally I don't see where we're continuing with the same old in any regard. Vinny is gone, new GM, new coach with a proven track record, Snyder out of the way, etc. It just seems that you are intent on spinning everything to the negative, there's really no use in trying to convince you otherwise.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;654127]Ugh we get it dude, you hate everything the team does right now and we're doomed. Personally I don't see where we're continuing with the same old in any regard. Vinny is gone, new GM, new coach with a proven track record, Snyder out of the way, etc. It just seems that you are intent on spinning everything to the negative, there's really no use in trying to convince you otherwise.[/quote]

Mike Shanahan - "proven track record"??? What do you mean by that? He won ONE playoff win in the last ten years. If you want to go back 11-15 years, then yeah, he had alot of success. But so did Gibbs 1.0. Instead of thinking Shanahan can replicate what he did 11-15 years ago, aren't you the slightest bit concerned about why he couldnt come close to that level of success in the past ten years?

What on earth makes you think we're getting Shanahan of 11-15 years ago, and not Shanahan of 10 years ago to the present? When shanahan has a history of selecting poor defensive coordinators and he's hired yet another one, what makes you expect a different result?

you keep criticising me for being negative. I'm a redskins fan but I don't wear burgundy and gold colored glasses. I don't put blind faith in every move the redskins make and think it will succeed because i'm a fan. Its a shame that the skins have been bad for so long that people's standards have dropped so low.

I don't automatically hate everything the team does. If we had, for example, hired Eric DeCosta as GM and he had interviewed 4-5 candidates and ultimately hired Bill Cowher as head coach, who then hired Charlie Weiss as OC and Romeo Crennel as DC, i wou'dnt be hating a thing. I don't know how all of those people would have worked togehter, but they each have had [I]proven track records of success in their respective areas of expertise[/I].

The men we've selected to fill those roles with this team haven't anywhere near that same level of success. I'm skeptical - not because I want to be - but because I'm not all that impressed with the resume's of a single one of the hires we've made. [I]We've basically taken a bunch of people who have been [I]poor to above average[/i] in their respective areas of expertise over the last decade and we're expecting these guys to somehow all "get it right" and take us to the promised land. [/I] But why? What evidence do we have to merit such faith?

you say you can't change my mind - well you know what? you CAN change my mind. I just need EVIDENCE. What EVIDENCE do you have that:

1) Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan will do better at drafting players than they did in Tampa Bay and Denver.

2) Jim Haslett will be a better defensive coordinator than he has been in the past.

Give me any argument that contains evidence and not "we just have to wait and see" and i'll be THRILLED beyond belief.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

bighair, you ever consider anti-depressants ?

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;654140]Mike Shanahan - "proven track record"??? What do you mean by that? He won ONE playoff win in the last ten years. If you want to go back 11-15 years, then yeah, he had alot of success. But so did Gibbs 1.0. Instead of thinking Shanahan can replicate what he did 11-15 years ago, aren't you the slightest bit concerned about why he couldnt come close to that level of success in the past ten years?

What on earth makes you think we're getting Shanahan of 11-15 years ago, and not Shanahan of 10 years ago to the present? When shanahan has a history of selecting poor defensive coordinators and he's hired yet another one, what makes you expect a different result?

you keep criticising me for being negative. I'm a redskins fan but I don't wear burgundy and gold colored glasses. I don't put blind faith in every move the redskins make and think it will succeed because i'm a fan. Its a shame that the skins have been bad for so long that people's standards have dropped so low.

I don't automatically hate everything the team does. If we had, for example, hired Eric DeCosta as GM and he had interviewed 4-5 candidates and ultimately hired Bill Cowher as head coach, who then hired Charlie Weiss as OC and Romeo Crennel as DC, i wou'dnt be hating a thing. I don't know how all of those people would have worked togehter, but they each have had [I]proven track records of success in their respective areas of expertise[/I].

The men we've selected to fill those roles with this team haven't anywhere near that same level of success. I'm skeptical - not because I want to be - but because I'm not all that impressed with the resume's of a single one of the hires we've made. [I]We've basically taken a bunch of people who have been [I]poor to above average[/I] in their respective areas of expertise over the last decade and we're expecting these guys to somehow all "get it right" and take us to the promised land. [/I]But why? What evidence do we have to merit such faith?

you say you can't change my mind - well you know what? you CAN change my mind. I just need EVIDENCE. What EVIDENCE do you have that:

1) Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan will do better at drafting players than they did in Tampa Bay and Denver.

2) Jim Haslett will be a better defensive coordinator than he has been in the past.

Give me any argument that contains evidence and not "we just have to wait and see" and i'll be THRILLED beyond belief.[/quote]

Proven track record as in look at Shanahan's career accomplishments. I think that speaks for itself.

It's not about blind faith man, it's about letting things play out and giving this new regime a chance before you write off everything.

Right now nobody knows for sure how this is all going to work. I can't tell you it's going to work, just like you can't tell me it's not going to work. Everyone can spin all the stats and numbers all they want to fit their views, truth is we have to see how things play out on the field.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[QUOTE="Mattyk"]Perhaps we should temper all negativity as well and truly be in wait and see mode.[/QUOTE]
Agreed!!! We need to take a wait and see approach this year. Everyone needs to take a step back from the ledge, and give JH a chance.


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Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[QUOTE="BigHairedAristocrat"]"Stay medium." Isn't that the philosphy of arguably the worst coach in our franchise's history?

Shanahan failed in Denver for two primary reasons:

1) He had final say over personnel and Denver repeatedly made poor personnel decisions
2) He picked poor defensive coordinators

Shanahan's been here a week and we know two things about him.

1) he has final say over personnel
2) He picked a poor defensive coordinator

Taking a "wait and see" approach and expecting to see different results is like watching a child, who has repeatedly put his hand on a hot stovetop, reach for that hot stove stop top again and taking a "wait and see approach" to see if he gets burned. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results... isn't that what we criticized the LAST regime for? Isn't that what we called insanity? So what does that say about those here who are taking a "wait and see" approach as they see history repeating itself over again before their eyes?[/QUOTE]
Gloomy Gus is at it again!!!


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