Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=Mattyk;658163]I don't think they have to worry about that, he's already had an accomplished career regardless of what happens the rest of the way. It's just odd how adamant some are in his support, granted his strong supporters seem to be few and far between.[/quote]Bad examples on the jerseys, he'd be more of a Stephen Davis.

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;658168]IF our cap sheets are correct, he's getting $10M this year. Either way it's too much, I'd rather spend the $$$ on solid FA O-Lineman and the rest on on a FA RB or rookie RB.[/quote]I think the difference is either pro-rated bonus money (my guess) or recoverable bonus money (not likely). I know the 6 million figure represents a base salary figure that Vinny guarenteed to Portis in exchange for re-doing his contract last February.

It was written into the CBA that in the last capped year, contracts could only be restructed to players if their salaries were guarenteed through the uncapped year. The reason for this is pretty intuitive.

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;658169]And what happens guys when after a few games its the same old song and dance provided he is still taking up a roster spot by then??[/quote]

Cut him and move on.

Re: Portis staying?
 

You guys are funny. I'm busy, i'll explain why yall are funny later

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;658169]And what happens guys when after a few games its the same old song and dance provided he is still taking up a roster spot by then??[/quote]

That's a good question. I'd trade or cut him ASAP myself, but I have a feeling the coaches will make the right decision. I don't think Danny has a hand in it anymore. I think for the first time in a long time Portis is going to have to EARN his place on this team. We'll see if he's up to the task I guess. The rules will be laid out for him, the balls in his court. Time to nut up or shutup eh Snake?

Re: Portis staying?
 

Okay, quickly, you realize that one of you anti-portis guys compared a pro bowl, multi-thousand yard season running playmaker who broke team records set by Riggins (who's jersey i have) to HEATH FRIGGIN SHULER!?!?!

You can call him a 'has been' but you can't compare him to a 'never was'!!?!?!

HA HA HA HA HA! You guys crack me up!

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=Beneil (diehard since 87);658177]You guys are funny. I'm busy, i'll explain why yall are funny later[/quote]

Spare us, we get it. He's a baller and can do no wrong. With Shanahan on board he's bound to run for 1500 yards and 15 TDs again.

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;658174]I think the difference is either pro-rated bonus money (my guess) or recoverable bonus money (not likely). I know the 6 million figure represents a base salary figure that Vinny guarenteed to Portis in exchange for re-doing his contract last February.

It was written into the CBA that in the last capped year, contracts could only be restructed to players if their salaries were guarenteed through the uncapped year. The reason for this is pretty intuitive.[/quote]Our cap sheets show a salary of $ 7.1M and a cap bonus of $ 2.9M. I believe the cap bonus is due by the start of Free Agency (March 5th), so we'll know if Portis will be with us by then.

Schneed or CrazyCanuck can correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=Beneil (diehard since 87);658183]Okay, quickly, you realize that one of you anti-portis guys compared a pro bowl, multi-thousand yard season running playmaker who broke team records set by Riggins (who's jersey i have) to HEATH FRIGGIN SHULER!?!?!

You can call him a 'has been' but you can't compare him to a 'never was'!!?!?!

[B]HA HA HA HA HA! You guys crack me up[/B]![/quote]

You may have been a little cracked before you got here. :)

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=Beneil (diehard since 87);658183]Okay, quickly, you realize that one of you anti-portis guys compared a pro bowl, multi-thousand yard season running playmaker who broke team records set by Riggins (who's jersey i have) to HEATH FRIGGIN SHULER!?!?!

You can call him a 'has been' but you can't compare him to a 'never was'!!?!?!

HA HA HA HA HA! You guys crack me up![/quote]Yes, I agree Portis has been more productive than Heath Shuler. It was a bad jersey reference, for what was a joke.....

But what you have no counter for is the analysis of Portis and that his performance and abilities have significantly declined.

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=Beneil (diehard since 87);658183]Okay, quickly, you realize that one of you anti-portis guys compared a pro bowl, multi-thousand yard season running playmaker who broke team records set by Riggins (who's jersey i have) to HEATH FRIGGIN SHULER!?!?!

You can call him a 'has been' but you can't compare him to a 'never was'!!?!?!

HA HA HA HA HA! You guys crack me up![/quote]

The blurb about Heath Schuler was a direct shot to Slingin' Sammy. I suspect he wont be happy.

The only team record Portis broke was the single season rushing yardage. He has yet to surpass the all-time career yards held by Riggo, nor has he surpassed Riggo's single season rushing TD record (24). Seeing as how he cant manage 50 yards a game on most days, i think Riggins' all time record is safe..

What is cracking up is your comments in here. Seriously dude are you just having a laugh at our expense? Its almost like you're trying to set somebody off...

Re: Portis staying?
 

Ok, setting the record straight, I don't think he is the best back ever. I've already said that I am not pro-ratting players out. No i don't think 1500+ is a given for his production next year provided that he gets a decent o-line, but I DO think it is very possible being that just last year, not 6 years ago, LAST YEAR he got 1,487 yards only having a decent line for half a season. THis year the line fell apart early and not one of our backs did any better running than Portis. Not saying that no running back could, but the ones we have didn't.

Okay, maybe watching the games you've noticed a decrease in speed. Fine. Expected. He's getting older. 28 is 'old' in HB years. Well, some HB's have their best years around 30. Riggins had his best years later on. (example, not comparison) I mean, apart from saying that you think he looks slower, you have nothing else to lean on. Wow, a whole year ago he missed 1500 by 13 yards. I guess you're right. He's a piece of crap and obviously will never break 1500 again. Sorry for being so obtuse.

Re: Portis staying?
 

I didn't say he broke ALL Riggo's records, sheesh! You're reaching. Portis has 6 seasons of 1200+ yards. Riggins has two. it took 14 years for Riggins to get 11300 yards, Portis is about 1600 shy in like 6 fewer season. I'm just sayin...

As for TD's, getting the last yard was the riggo-drill's job. Dude was a beast! I wear his jersey proudly!

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=Mattyk;658157]Lately it seems anytime there's a CP thread, there's always one staunch supporter in the crowd that thinks he can do no wrong. Kinda weird.[/quote]

It's equally as weird that there is another guy intent on bashing him and wishing the end of his career...even hoping the concussion would put him out for good. That guy = SolidSnake84. Hating CP is his life's passion.

Re: Portis staying?
 

Joe Jackson Gibbs absolutely LOVED Clinton Portis. Even though CP is an ass at times and somwhat of a jerk...I'll go with Gibbs on this one!

3 more 1200 yard seasons and CP is in Canton.

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=Son Of Man;658211]Joe Jackson Gibbs absolutely LOVED Clinton Portis. Even though CP is an ass at times and somwhat of a jerk...I'll go with Gibbs on this one!

3 more 1200 yard seasons and CP is in Canton.[/quote]

It was Joe Jackson Gibbs who contributed to Portis's spiral into individualism. It was on his watch that Portis was permitted to take himself out of games at his own discretion, practice when he wanted too, and refuse to participate in the off-season program or play in pre-season games.

The fact Gibbs often spoke fondly of Portis was a declaration he chose to take advantage of, and took that fondness to mean he could do just about anything he wanted too. It was a declaration of loyalty and commitment that ultimately caused a riff between Al Saunders and Gibbs. Saunders was calling plays expecting Portis to be in the game, Portis for reasons of his own chose to remove himself from games without any of the coaching staff having prior knowledge.

The issues surrounding Portis is not primarily about stats or how many yards he's gained or will gain. It's more about the unnecessary drama he brings to a team and it's locker room, coupled with the need for a seperate set of rules for him that are not commonplace for the entire team. Being one of the highest paid players on the team, he has never lead by example and I doubt seriously any of the younger players on the team are interested in following his blueprint.

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=Longtimefan;658226]It was Joe Jackson Gibbs who contributed to Portis's spiral into individualism. It was on his watch that Portis was permitted to take himself out of games at his own discretion, practice when he wanted too, and refuse to participate in the off-season program or play in pre-season games.

The fact Gibbs often spoke fondly of Portis was a declaration he chose to take advantage of, and took that fondness to mean he could do just about anything he wanted too. It was a declaration of loyalty and commitment that ultimately caused a riff between Al Saunders and Gibbs. Saunders was calling plays expecting Portis to be in the game, Portis for reasons of his own chose to remove himself from games without any of the coaching staff having prior knowledge.

The issues surrounding Portis is not primarily about stats or how many yards he's gained or will gain. It's more about the unnecessary drama he brings to a team and it's locker room, coupled with the need for a seperate set of rules for him that are not commonplace for the entire team. Being one of the highest paid players on the team, he has never lead by example and I doubt seriously any of the younger players on the team are interested in following his blueprint.[/quote]

Drama didn't come til Zorn. The drama was Zorn told Portis to go into the pass route instead of blocking blitzers. Blitzing was an inigma to Zorn. Gibbs let Portis sit out of practice cause he was using a speed back as a battering ram. Portis cooperated with Gibbs no whining. He had alot of wear and tear no use in having your star RB practicing when he was leaving it all on the field, injuries and all. I defend him and Gibbs til the end. Let him stay if he don't work out he gets cut simple. Putting on costumes is not drama. Zorn was incompetent, Portis had been coached by Shanahan and Gibbs he knows a fake coach aka Zorn when he sees one.

Re: Portis staying?
 

I love hoe we can say that Portis should go but there are so many who love the "Never Has Done Anything For Us" Jason Campbell. But then again, onve he gets another contract which means more money YOU ALL WILL turn on him. WATCH !!!!

Portis was 13 yards shy of 1,500 the year before last behind the same line that the underachiever couldn't produce behind. The guy gets hurt ;ast season and everyone says to let him go, or that we should. That man should and WILL be here next year. Shanny knows what he had in Clinton Portis because he NEVER had another back like Portis after he sent him here. Get off his back, he already has put the team there on the way to the playoffs twice.

Re: Portis staying?
 

I like CP the player, i beleive we have the right people in charge now and if they say he stays or goes i trust their judgement. Sometimes this site reminds me of highschool with its clicks if you say something that they don't agree with they get mad & want to call you crazy, don't get me wrong i'm sure there are some crazy people on this site but i think the one thing we all have in common is we are all DIE HARD REDSKIN FANS. Freedom of speech (typing) should be allowed it is right to discuss a topic but we are to groan for name calling. HTTR

Re: Portis staying?
 

CP til this season was one of the guys that never quit on the field. Yeah he got a strand of prime dona syndrome, but can you blame him? This type of situation(meaning with the team as a whole) is what got Barry Sunders to say "screw it" and leave when he could have stuck it out an easily become the best back ever!!!! As long as the docs say he is OK, then we should keep him. We need to concentrate on acquiring linemen, a LB, and a QB in the draft.

Re: Portis staying?
 

I think it's totally possible CP could rebound and have a few very good seasons left. Honestly I believe he gave up on Zorn and did not prepare for the '09 campaign like he typically prepares. He looked slow, out of shape and generally unwilling to give 110%, which is what he'd given every game up to Zorn's 2nd year.

Deciding whether to retain him, for Shanny and Bruce, is probably a tough one. I think someone wisely pointed out Clinton could help his chances of staying in DC by working his ass off starting yesterday to impress the new regime. I think you could also say w/ confidence it's in his financial interest to rededicate himself. No franchise will pay him close to what he's due this year in salary.

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=Son Of Man;658211]3 more 1200 yard seasons and CP is in Canton.[/quote]

3 more 1200 yard seasons and I'm the tooth fairy. Not going to happen.

I think some of you have forgotten that Portis has been in the top five in terms of rushing attempts 4 out of the last 5 years. The years he hasn't been in the top 5 are because he's been on the rack injured for half the season.

The guy has [B]Thomas Jones[/B] mileage on him, and he's [B]three years younger[/B].


[quote=Son Of Man;658211]Joe Jackson Gibbs absolutely LOVED Clinton Portis. Even though CP is an ass at times and somwhat of a jerk...I'll go with Gibbs on this one![/quote]

We can love Joe Jackson Gibbs without believing everything he believed in was gospel, can't we? :)

Of course Gibbs would love Portis -- he gave the guy close to 400 touches a season. Why wouldn't he love him? But that Trans Am that Dad drove 20,000 miles a year isn't quite so badass anymore. It's high maintenance, only runs well right after a tune-up, and breaks down constantly.

It's time to put the Trans Am on Craigslist and start saving for a new ride.

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=MonkFan4Life;658234]I love hoe we can say that Portis should go but there are so many who love the "Never Has Done Anything For Us" Jason Campbell. But then again, onve he gets another contract which means more money YOU ALL WILL turn on him. WATCH !!!![/quote]

Totally OT, but I find it interesting that someone with the moniker MonkFan4Life would choose to support a player like Portis who doesn't practice, gets special treatment, and throws teammates under the bus, then trash a guy like Campbell who for the most part has shut his mouth and did his job, while most of the front office and lots of media pundits took a dump on him. I'd think a MonkFan (because I'm one myself) would be a bigger fan of the hard-working quiet guy. But whatever...


[quote=MonkFan4Life;658234]Portis was 13 yards shy of 1,500 the year before last behind the same line that the underachiever couldn't produce behind. [/quote]

Okay, let me get this straight -- Portis's rushing yardage -- which took him 342 attempts, by the way -- 3rd most in the league that year -- is somehow proof that Campbell should have put up better numbers that year?

So you're saying that, say, since Thomas Jones had 1300 yards rushing that year, Favre should have had a better year throwing the ball? Yet his 3472/22/22 isn't markedly better than Campbell's 3245/13/6 -- in fact it's worse, if you go by passer rating.

Let's see -- DeAngelo Williams rushed for 1500 in '08. How did Delhomme do passing behind that line? 3288/15/12 -- 84.7 passer rating, a smidge higher than Jason.

Gosh, it kind of looks like Jason wasn't the only QB who did "OK" behind an O-Line that featured a 1000 to 1500 yard back.

It's almost like Campbell's performance is *totally irrelevant* to the argument of whether Portis should be here next year!

[quote=MonkFan4Life;658234]The guy gets hurt ;ast season and everyone says to let him go, or that we should. [/quote]

Oh, I don't know, if I was so sick that I missed 25% of my work days over the past 4 years, I'm pretty sure my employers might start looking for a replacement, don't you?

[quote=MonkFan4Life;658234]Shanny knows what he had in Clinton Portis because he NEVER had another back like Portis after he sent him here. [/quote]

Well, you got that right. He never had another 1500 yard back. He just had to make due with three seasons of consecutive 1000 yard backs he pieced together with bailing wire and duct tape. Reuben Droughns? Tatum Bell? Mike Anderson? Are you kidding me?

[quote=MonkFan4Life;658234]Get off his back, he already has put the team there on the way to the playoffs twice.[/quote]

That's true, he has put the team on his back for two playoff runs. His 2.77 ypc playoff rushing average is also one of the main reasons those playoff runs ended.

Re: Portis staying?
 

Son of Man has called me out....my feelings are hurt.

I'll admit it though, I dont like Portis. I'll go as far as to say I do hate him. And i hate him because of what he has done to this team, how he has alienated his fellow team mates, and everything else that he has done...He doesn't appear to be sorry in the least, and given the opportunity, he is going to do the same things if he gets the chance. I hate how he is holding the redskins over a barrel. He will never change his ways. And people dont seem to get that, but thats fine.

I guess i'm wrong for wanting a guy like that off the team. People need to realize that we aren't going anywhere with guys like him because he disrupts any kind of unity/cohesion that the team would have. We have this great new coach, and great new manager, but if guys like Portis stay its going to be the same old same old, and you know it

Re: Portis staying?
 

My user name has nothing to do with this issue. The fact that it was your opening salvo really lets me know how much you had on me for a response. I'm a football fan chief, I can also take the Redskins shades off to judge a player for them and not what a newspaper or talk show host wants me to think. That's something else, but I'll get to the facts that you tried to prove me wrong with. I didn't say a thing about Williams and Jones but I'll meet you there also. Delhomme is one of the FEW QB's that I wouldn't drop Campbell for and Favre had a bad year BUUUUUUT he did throw 22 TD's as well. Campbells performance is relevant when the O-Line is one of the reasons given for his production or lack there of, he's another subject for me. On to the subject at hand.

Now, it took Portis 342 attempts to gain those yards, So the F what. He got them didn't he. Obviously there were a lot of men in the box, or maybe the same line that you would complain about Jason having to play behind gave him the same grief. I guess that doesn't count. I can't believe that you can really discount the fact that he put the team on his back for 2 playoff runs. Honestly, but you say because they lost that it was HIS fault ? WOW

I really wish you had looked up stats before you thought about choosing me as the guy to make a name on. Let's look at the great running backs that you speak of after Portis.

The year before Portis got to Denver (2001),Terrell Davis gave them 701 and Mike Anderson gave them 678.

'02 Portis - 1,508
Mike Anderson -386. I wonder why he wasn't starting ?
'03 Portis - 1,591
'04 Droughns - 1,240
'05 Mike Anderson -1,014
Tatum Bell - 921
'06 Tatum Bell 1,025
'07 Selvin Young -729

Do you notice something ? Like I said, He knows what he had in Portis, and that guy is not done. If people can say that Jason needs blocking to be successful, what can Portis do with the same thing ? The same thing that he has done without it,...produce.

This is a lot of typing so if you are on XBox Live we can continue this debate but believe me I'm not a kid, I'm not an easy win.

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;658281]Son of Man has called me out....my feelings are hurt.

I'll admit it though, I dont like Portis. I'll go as far as to say I do hate him. And i hate him because of what he has done to this team, how he has alienated his fellow team mates, and everything else that he has done...He doesn't appear to be sorry in the least, and given the opportunity, he is going to do the same things if he gets the chance. I hate how he is holding the redskins over a barrel. He will never change his ways. And people dont seem to get that, but thats fine.

I guess i'm wrong for wanting a guy like that off the team. People need to realize that we aren't going anywhere with guys like him because he disrupts any kind of unity/cohesion that the team would have. We have this great new coach, and great new manager, [B]but if guys like Portis stay its going to be the same old same old, and you know it[/B][/quote]

First, I don't care if he stays or if he goes. That said, IF he stays, I don't think it is the same old same old. Some coaches tolerate foolishness, and it causes issues, some coaches put rules and disciplines in place, and allow no foolishness, most of the time that backfires too, the great coaches balance hard discipline with individual idiosyncrasies and they more often than not are the great coaches. One of JG's best attributes was maintaining team spirit and esprit de corps while allowing for a guy like Riggins to go have a drink or two with a Supreme Court judge, or CP give press conferences in costume. Antics can relieve the pressures of NFL life, and the great coaches understand that and manage it.

I think Shanahan had enough of CP the first time, but maybe he can talk some sense into him this time. Time will tell.

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;658285]First, I don't care if he stays or if he goes. That said, IF he stays, I don't think it is the same old same old. Some coaches tolerate foolishness, and it causes issues, some coaches put rules and disciplines in place, and allow no foolishness, most of the time that backfires too, the great coaches balance hard discipline with individual idiosyncrasies and they more often than not are the great coaches. One of JG's best attributes was maintaining team spirit and esprit de corps [B]while allowing for a guy like Riggins to go have a drink or two with a Supreme Court judge,[/B] or CP give press conferences in costume. Antics can relieve the pressures of NFL life, and the great coaches understand that and manage it.

I think Shanahan had enough of CP the first time, but maybe he can talk some sense into him this time. Time will tell.[/quote]

Perhaps I'm wrong but growing up during this time and laughing at it I thought it was after a SB run and Riggins was invited to a White House dinner? Gibbs didn't have anything to do with "allowing" him to go to it. I also thought it was after Riggins last year playing.

I don't know maybe I'm wrong.

Re: Portis staying?
 

You are correct....It was in 1985 and John was invited to the white house. Joe Gibbs had nothing to do with it.

But I don't think it would have mattered. The only thing that I dont like about the Riggins and Portis comparisons, is that some people here are making it out like Portis worked just as hard as Riggins. And that is simply not true. Riggins was a team player. He had his own issues (drunkness, other things), but he always worked to help the team. You never heard about him badmouthing everybody under the sun all the while playing on a broken back...

Re: Portis staying?
 

Ok, here's my issue:

1- As someone said before, this is a Portis thread and everyone is making it out to be about everyone else. The first joker wanted to bring Sellers into the arguement then blame everyone else for bringing Seller into a Portis thread. Then there's the second joker who brings up JC and people not on this team. I honestly don't care about whether other players are brought up but don't bring them up yourself then bitch about others doing it.

2- No one said Porti is crap. I think we all know what he has done and what he as accomplished. But the issues are not about what he "has" done in the past for us its what he is going to be able to do for us. As a player who is getting older, is more injury prone, and is slowing down... is he worth keeping on this team? I still say his head injury may have decided for us. The doctor as far as I know still has not cleared him.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzfY-aXGcBY&feature=related]YouTube - YOU GOT KNOCKED THA FUGGG OUT!!![/url]

3-This year is to be an uncapped year. Most experts are saying they believe a new CBA will be put in place after this year. If a team wants to shed any big contracts with out it hurting them future wise this would be the year. Maybe it will go longer but what we do know is this year will not have a CAP and the owners know it and if they want to shed big contracts this is the year to get it done. Unfortunatly Portis falls into this catagory.

4- "If" the team can pay off Portis, and his doctor clears him, and the team wants to re-sign him to a more reasonable contract then I'm for keeping him and bringing in someone else to split time on the field so Portis's whinny ass doesn't have to complain about the beating he's taking. But I'm more about the team playing as a team. The team acting like a team, so if Portis gets cut I know I won't be upset. I know it was not all Portis's fault just as I know it wasn't all JC's fault, but I do know that no one should be getting special treatment. That is if they view themselves as a team player and a team. Everyone does the work. Everyone does the practices. Everyone does the preseason. It's a way for the coach's to evaluate the players and their progress. Are they getting the timing down? Are they hitting the holes right? Are they blocking the right people? Are they running the right routes? What if JC sat out all preseason then started game day? Do you think he would be completely ready to step on the field and win a game for us? Do you think he would have the receivers routes down and be able to deliver the ball on time?

No one person is bigger then the team or the game. I can over look the comments Portis has made if the players can over look them. If the team has made up and kissed then I'm good with Portis staying so long as he doesn't hurt us because he's not learning the plays on the field or practicing the plays on the field, or his Salary.

No the other players mentioned.... Sellers is getting old, I hope they have a replacement for him. JC is not an elite QB in my book. He's servicable, is young, and for the most part healthy, I don't have a problem with him cause he actually practices and plays. I'd like to see us pick up a Frachise QB cause I don't see it with JC but otherwise if the coaching staff believes he is right for their system then I'll be happy knowing someone who knows their system thinks JC can run it.

I'll even go a step further.... I hope they do something with AH's contract. I'm not sure if it was $100 mill if he plays the whole term or if it's guarenteed? If it's guarenteed then I'd say try to pay off the majority so if a CAP comes back into play we only owe him like half the amount. If it's only the $40 mill guarenteed then pay him that and rework his contract. If he doesn't want to be in a 3-4 as some of you seem to think he said then let him go if he wants to go. Rather trade him out. Maybe pick up a NT or a draft pick or both.

Samuels I don't see coming back even though he's waffling. I can't see him returning with the neck issue. Same with R.Thomas. Anyone else with an off the chart salary we need to look into? fix it. Rework it. Whatever.

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=SBXVII;658286]Perhaps I'm wrong but growing up during this time and laughing at it I thought it was after a SB run and Riggins was invited to a White House dinner? Gibbs didn't have anything to do with "allowing" him to go to it. I also thought it was after Riggins last year playing.

I don't know maybe I'm wrong.[/quote]

I don't mean to say that he allowed it in that sense, but there was also no discipline imposed, which today would probably be demanded. My point was to say that Gibbs gave players room to be themselves and probably directed that energy toward team building, should I have used the camo dress up before the dallas game, or other antics of Riggo. I don't think being a character or diva in and of itself is bad, but if not managed and guided into positive outlets, than it will become destructive, and that is what has happened with Portis through the Zorn Experiment.

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;658287]You are correct....It was in 1985 and John was invited to the white house. Joe Gibbs had nothing to do with it.

But I don't think it would have mattered. The only thing that I dont like about the Riggins and Portis comparisons, is that some people here are making it out like Portis worked just as hard as Riggins. And that is simply not true. Riggins was a team player. He had his own issues (drunkness, other things), but he always worked to help the team. You never heard about him badmouthing everybody under the sun all the while playing on a broken back...[/quote]

I'm sure Gibbs had his hands full. Especially with him showing up drunk. But there is no comparison. The only real problem we had with Riggins was his not wanting to show up for camp that "one" year. Gibbs went out to see him and talked him back into playing. Other wise Riggins was a model player. I loved the guy but even when he was getting older and slowing down and not being as effective I wanted him out. I didn't care what he provided on the field in the past or what his legacy said about him. It was about was he worth keeping on the field or could we get younger at that position, faster and healthier?

Again I like Portis. I think he's funny, but he has several things going against him....
Age
Injury prone
Concussion (this ones the biggie. Some players couldn't return)

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;658291]I don't mean to say that he allowed it in that sense, but there was also no discipline imposed, which today would probably be demanded. My point was to say that Gibbs gave players room to be themselves and probably directed that energy toward team building, should I have used the camo dress up before the dallas game, or other antics of Riggo. I don't think being a character or diva in and of itself is bad, but if not managed and guided into positive outlets, than it will become destructive, and that is what has happened with Portis through the Zorn Experiment.[/quote]

I see what your saying. The only thing I don't like about Gibbs was he eliminated some really great talented players cause he believed in character. I think the character of the team would be able to keep the 1 or 2 diva's on the team in check. But Gibbs wouldn't even look at some players even though they were the best at their position. He simply would settle for the blue colar character guy. However he did get the job done. :)

Re: Portis staying?
 

About the concussion issue; latest word is that doctors have still not cleared him, he is still having vision concerns, and i suspect that will be a MAJOR factor considering next year for him.

If kept on, he will likely be ineligible to practice/attend OTA's (who would have guessed), due to the lack of physical clearance, and depending on if/how he has insurance set up, he may have to show to the insurance company that the redskins decided on his football future, and not him...very similar to the Theismann situation..

If he is put on injury waivers i'm not sure how that will affect his status to play for another team...i also don't know how that will affect our salary/cap, or whatever, if he is waived.

I'm just assuming if waived, another team can pick him up, but they would still have to get him cleared to play....

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=MonkFan4Life;658283]My user name has nothing to do with this issue. [/quote]

It has about as much to do with it as Jason Campbell's passing performance, but like I said -- totally off topic. I just found it interesting since I consider myself a Monk fan as well, and Portis' attitudes in several areas rub me the wrong way.

[quote=MonkFan4Life;658283]I'm a football fan chief, I can also take the Redskins shades off to judge a player for them and not what a newspaper or talk show host wants me to think. [/quote]

That's good; that tells me you'd be able to objectively put your appreciation for Portis' past performance on the field aside and consider the realities of what he may or may not do next year.

[quote=MonkFan4Life;658283]I didn't say a thing about Williams and Jones but I'll meet you there also. Delhomme is one of the FEW QB's that I wouldn't drop Campbell for and Favre had a bad year BUUUUUUT he did throw 22 TD's as well. Campbells performance is relevant when the O-Line is one of the reasons given for his production or lack there of, he's another subject for me. On to the subject at hand.[/quote]

Okay, you proved me wrong by saying that Favre and Delhomme had bad years? Makes no sense. My point was you used another irrelevant measure to compare Portis and Campbell, which makes no sense at all. And the only reason you even brought Jason up was to trash him because "all you guys who love Jason will be sorry when Portis leaves" or whatever.

[quote=MonkFan4Life;658283]Now, it took Portis 342 attempts to gain those yards, So the F what. He got them didn't he. Obviously there were a lot of men in the box, or maybe the same line that you would complain about Jason having to play behind gave him the same grief. I guess that doesn't count. [/quote]

So the F what? It's called yards per carry. If you gave Fred Smoot enough carries he could gain a lot of yards rushing, too. 1500 yards is 1500 yards, and you can't sneeze at that, but what does it mean when the team still failed to do anything AND Portis was so abused that he spent half the following season injured?

The *fact* (yes, I use them) remains that when Portis has had 1500 yard seasons or very close to them, the next year he has missed 8 games. TWICE. That ain't coincidence, dude, that's mechanical failure.

[quote=MonkFan4Life;658283]I can't believe that you can really discount the fact that he put the team on his back for 2 playoff runs. Honestly, but you say because they lost that it was HIS fault ? WOW [/quote]

No, I didn't discount them and I didn't say the losses were solely on Clinton. But the fact remains that the dude requires so many touches to generate yardage that by the time the playoffs roll around he is spent, and that IS a major reason we failed to advance -- lack of a solid run game! You cannot dispute this! If you say he's such a huge reason for the team's success, how can he NOT bear blame when he breaks down during those playoff games?

[quote=MonkFan4Life;658283]I really wish you had looked up stats before you thought about choosing me as the guy to make a name on. [/quote]

The hilarious part is that you reposted the same information I did, and seem to think I missed Portis' 1500 yard seasons, when I explicitly called it out in my response.


[quote=MonkFan4Life;658283] Do you notice something ? Like I said, He knows what he had in Portis, and that guy is not done. [/quote]

Yes, I noticed that Shanahan got the best shutdown corner in the league and then replaced Portis' 1500 yards with 1000 yards from a bunch of nobodies. Did he miss those 500 yards? I'm sure, but I think he was happy with the team's relative improvement even if he didn't have the #1 ranked rushing offense.

Re: Portis staying?
 

Man this thread sucks....everybody is at everybody's throat....We don't need that here....the thing i like about the WP is that everybody is usually so relaxed.

Some of these debates are good though...

I like a point that I am seeing ground out here: [B]Everyone here appreciates CP's past work for us...however only a few people still feel that his past work should give him an indefinate pass on the future[/B]

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=SBXVII;658293]I see what your saying. The only thing I don't like about Gibbs was he eliminated some really great talented players cause he believed in character. I think the character of the team would be able to keep the 1 or 2 diva's on the team in check. But Gibbs wouldn't even look at some players even though they were the best at their position. He simply would settle for the blue colar character guy. However he did get the job done. :)[/quote]

It will be interesting to see how the Skins fan base, who overall hate divas IMO, will deal with Shanahan. He has been known to look past that to get his guy, or his team. He is different from Gibbs in that way, but again, I think it points to the fact that a good/great coach knows the players he can handle. You look at Josh McD in Denver, he couldn't handle the same players that Shanahan could. Zorn couldn't handle the players Gibbs could (well Zorn couldn't handle the players- but let us not digress). Great coaches bring players that will respond to them, or at least they bring players that they THINK will respond to them. Under Bruce Allen/Shanahan, I think we will see our fair share of Diva's and "cancers", but I think many will flourish under Shanahan's coaching.

So does that mean Portis is staying? No, I think the points you and Snake raised about the cap and the concussions are extremely legitimate, and if there was a potential to get rid of Portis in a trade, or relieve the team of his salary(in future years where a cap may or may not come back into play), I think that will happen.

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;658296]Man this thread sucks....everybody is at everybody's throat....We don't need that here....the thing i like about the WP is that everybody is usually so relaxed.

Some of these debates are good though...

I like a point that I am seeing ground out here: [B]Everyone here appreciates CP's past work for us...however only a few people still feel that his past work should give him an indefinate pass on the future[/B][/quote]

You know, you're right about that Snake and I guess it's the tone of some posts that seem to be angling for people to argue with them. The dumbest part of it is that it doesn't matter what any of us argue here, either the guy stays or goes, and it's going to come down to impressing a guy who traded him away several years ago.

From my posts in this thread you'd probably think I'm anti-Portis, but I've got the man's jersey hanging in my closet (next to my Monk and my Campbell, ironically), and my signature image from the Fantasy bulletin board I used to frequent calls me the driver of the Portis Bandwagon, because I've been that guy when a lot of folks said he was done.

For me, Portis has taken a decidely [I]Arenas[/I] turn this past season, where mileage and injuries are catching up to him and his behavior hasn't exactly been the kind of foundation you can build a locker room around. That doesn't take away from what he has done on the field in the past, but I also do not think we are going to win many football games in the future relying on CP to shoulder the load.

So I'll just agree to disagree with MonkFan and anyone else who wants to hold on to the guy. And no more going for the throat, lol.

Re: Portis staying?
 

I'm glad everybody realizes the big picture...seriously....we really will be better off as a franchise without him....our young talent will be better off without somebody holding us back...

Re: Portis staying?
 

Well i'm glad there are at least a FEW people here that know stats and know real football and make valid comments. Metal Gear only uses opinions and his best defense is exaggerating other people's statements.

Question, if ANYONE can have success in Shanahan's system, why has nobody done as well in it since Portis? If players are interchangable, why didn't Shanahan get any rings after Elway and Terrell Davis were gone? Answer that, Solid.

Our two last playoff berths were mostly on the back of Portis and we crapped out in out last playoff game because Todd Collins let one pick lead to more and turn him into a typical rookie, scared to make another mistake. Another big factor was the greatest player of our defense, God rest his soul, left a huge hole in our backfield when he passed away. Once again, when you play normal teams, Yes, Santana can be the man. But when you'r eplaying a playoff level team, the number 2 and 3 receivers HAVE to step up! [U](This is the point you missed when you THOUGHT i was comparing Moss to Reggie Wayne) [/U]
All we had was moss, cooley was too busy blocking to make a difference in the passing game, so of COURSE they handed Portis the ball over and over! He'd take the ball with sore ribs, a bad shoulder, and a twisted ankle and STILL have a higher YPC than Betts or any other guy we have AS WELL as most many other starters. I'm not all about portis and i'm not in his fan club, i'm stating facts! Now, if you have anything other than "Oh, so you think portis is perfect!?" then let it be known. If not, go put on your pink Tony Romo jersey and let the real Redskins fans talk!

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=Beneil (diehard since 87);658351] He'd take the ball with sore ribs, a bad shoulder, and a twisted ankle and STILL have a higher YPC than Betts or any other guy we have AS WELL as most many other starters. I'm not all about portis and i'm not in his fan club, i'm stating facts![/quote]

Betts 2009 YPC: 3.8
Ganther 2009 YPC: 3.2
Mason 2009 YPC: 4.0
Portis 2009 YPC: 4.0

Those are facts, son. Portis was on par with Ladell Betts, as well as Marcus Mason. Ganther was the only one who paled in comparison. Still working on your "higher than most other starters" argument...but here you go below

Top Running Backs from 2009

Chris Johnson: 2,006 yards 5.6 YPC
Cedric Benson: 1,251 yards 4.2 YPC
Steven Jackson: 1,416 yards 4.4 YPC
Thomas Jones: 1,402 yards 4.2 YPC
Maurice Jones-Drew: 1,391 yards 4.5 YPC

Your precious Portis wasn't higher than any of those starts listed above. So i know you hate facts, but Portis wasnt better than anybody this season...especially not on our team. And i dont have to exaggerate statements because your opinion of Portis can't be reasoned with. You dont care about anybody else's opinion but your own. So take these facts and try and learn something.

Your quote at the top is what is so ironic, because you get on me for saying untruths and exaggerating...but then look at the shit you say.