Re: Samuels Will Hold Noon Press Conference on Thursday to Announce Retirement
 

[quote=GTripp0012;668905]If he had retired at 28, it would have been similar to Samuels retiring now at 32. Since 2007, he's been a negative effect on the offense (exception to a 5 game stretch in 2008). I do not believe that any amount of Shanahan magic is going to make Moss a valuable player like he was in 2004 and (particularly) 2005.

Most players are like Moss in that they keep playing until they just don't have the desire to play anymore. Maybe Samuels would have been like this if he had the option to play longer. But in his ten year career, he was still our best lineman when he went out, and that's pretty special.[/quote]

I think Moss will have a good year next year. In fairness to Moss, he needs some time to get separation especially since he was the only wideout that had to be accounted for. He didn't look done in Detroit.

When you have a 3 step drop offense, a little guy isnt' going to produce (See Randle El and Moss' numbers from last year).

Re: Samuels Will Hold Noon Press Conference on Thursday to Announce Retirement
 

ARE had zero touchdowns last year, Betts had 2. Not sure about the FD numbers.

Re: Samuels Will Hold Noon Press Conference on Thursday to Announce Retirement
 

A lot of Moss' numbers for each of the last two years has been against the Detroit secondary.

I believe the following:

1) Moss is still physically able to run a strong route when he needs to once or twice a game (see Todd Collins' two deep passes).

2) If Moss doesn't buy into the scheme or the specific play being called, there are few lazier receivers in the league who are certain to not finish their routes.

I could see how Shanahan could come in and try to take advantage of Moss' strengths, and Moss could buy into the system from the first day and we get his best year since 2005, but 5 years removed from being a pro-bowler, his upside is limited now. And I don't really predict that Shanahan is going to have a major effect on him.

Moss should have a big game or two next year, but I'd be surprised if he was even a starter. Shanahan loves receivers who block and Moss' blocking effort varies greatly over the course of a game.

Re: Samuels Will Hold Noon Press Conference on Thursday to Announce Retirement
 

[quote=Mattyk;668965]ARE had zero touchdowns last year, Betts had 2. Not sure about the FD numbers.[/quote]I threw Betts and ARE on there because they are both first down machines in the passing game. Moss is obviously not the only player who doesn't score on our offense. He is by far the one who takes the most snaps (Pro Football Focus has him at 944 snaps, Kelly is second at 543).

Moss, as our leading receiver over the last three years, has averaged 4 TDs/year. In the four years prior to that, the prime of his career, he averaged 7.5 TDs per year.

I don't know if it's possible for a guy who gets all of the No. 1 receiver opportunities to average fewer than 4 TDs a year, but I'd suspect it's not. T.O scored 5 times last year, and there's no argument between Buffalo's QB situation last year and ours.

Re: Samuels Will Hold Noon Press Conference on Thursday to Announce Retirement
 

Moss has never been a big TD producer even in his prime, and it's not like JC is a TD tossing machine either.

Re: Samuels Will Hold Noon Press Conference on Thursday to Announce Retirement
 

[quote=Mattyk;668983]Moss has never been a big TD producer even in his prime, and it's not like JC is a TD tossing machine either.[/quote]Ultimately, you're correct. 20 TDs this year from JC is a lot though (in most years, that's a top ten number), and for Moss to get 3 on 592 pass plays seems like really poor production (half a percent of all pass plays are Moss TDs). Then you consider that the defenses he is scoring against are trash, and you have to conclude that he isn't a big play receiver, and hasn't been for awhile.

I don't know if I'd go as far as saying he's completely valueless, but I'm comfortable saying he's hurt more than he has helped in the last three years, which is not something I would say of Randle El/Betts/Cooley.

I do think if he's going to stay, he needs a new role. The old one isn't working.

Re: Samuels Will Hold Noon Press Conference on Thursday to Announce Retirement
 

[quote=GTripp0012;668991]Ultimately, you're correct. 20 TDs this year from JC is a lot though (in most years, that's a top ten number), and for Moss to get 3 on 592 pass plays seems like really poor production (half a percent of all receptions). Then you consider that the defenses he is scoring against are trash, and you have to conclude that he isn't a big play receiver, and hasn't been for awhile.

I don't know if I'd go as far as saying he's completely valueless, but I'm comfortable saying he's hurt more than he has helped in the last three years, which is not something I would say of Randle El/Betts/Cooley.

I do think if he's going to stay, he needs a new role. The old one isn't working.[/quote]

I would like to see him in the slot. I think he would wreak havoc if Jason (or whoever) has some time.

Re: Samuels Will Hold Noon Press Conference on Thursday to Announce Retirement
 

I don't see him as a slot guy, but I'd be all for willing to try him there if just to get Thomas and Kelly more opportunities to produce.

My general perspective is that if we gave Thomas and Kelly 800 reps each, say 450-500 on passing plays, they would each individually be more productive than Moss is in the same role. However, neither is going to challenge for a pro bowl anytime soon.

I really like Randle El in the slot, but to be completely honest, his production has declined each year since his 2007 career year, and after 2010, he might not be a valuable player anymore. Plus, a lot of fans already want to get Randle El the hell out of town, mostly because he's blocking the young guys (so is Moss), isn't a red zone threat, and can't actually return punts (Moss can do this). Randle El's metrics would probably suck as well if we tried to jam the ball in to him at the goal line every drive.

Re: Samuels Will Hold Noon Press Conference on Thursday to Announce Retirement
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;668992]I would like to see him in the slot. I think he would wreak havoc if Jason (or whoever) has some time.[/quote]


Every now and then, the memory banks work...

Remember Rod Smith for a few years there? He was everywhere and was unstoppable. His two best years were arguably when he was 30 and 31.

Re: Samuels Will Hold Noon Press Conference on Thursday to Announce Retirement
 

I hope Marko Mitchell is Rod Smith. It's not realistic, but they're similar body types and were both 23 year old college seniors.

Re: Samuels Will Hold Noon Press Conference on Thursday to Announce Retirement
 

I would love to see Moss get phased out of the #1 WR job, that would mean Thomas and/or Kelly are stepping up. While we're on the topic of a trash WR I'm really hoping to see ARE finally get the boot. His time has come.

Re: Samuels Will Hold Noon Press Conference on Thursday to Announce Retirement
 

[quote=Mattyk;669001]I would love to see Moss get phased out of the #1 WR job, that would mean Thomas and/or Kelly are stepping up. While we're on the topic of a trash WR I'm really hoping to see ARE finally get the boot. His time has come.[/quote]I'm on board with whatever the team decides to do with Randle El's contract option coming up this year. I just struggle to understand why some fans have been trying to kick Randle El to the curb for three years when he's been consistently more valuable year in and year out than Moss.

I am totally okay with moving on from the both of them and having Thomas-Kelly-Mitchell go 1-2-3 on the depth chart. Makes perfect sense to me if the team wants to do that. What doesn't make sense to me is moving Randle El out so we can put Moss in the very role that Randle El has done to near perfection for the last three years.

I haven't exactly come around on Thomas yet, but I can see his value to the team when combined with Kelly and Mitchell. He's the best ball-carrier of the three, no idea what that is worth.

Re: Samuels Will Hold Noon Press Conference on Thursday to Announce Retirement
 

Now GTripp dogging Moss even though Campbell has had his fair share blame for missing Moss time and time again with his lousy accuracy. Puh-lease, Moss may not be as good as Eddie Royal, but he would still be productive if he was surrounded by crap(including a bad coach).

Re: Samuels Will Hold Noon Press Conference on Thursday to Announce Retirement
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;669014]Now GTripp dogging Moss even though Campbell has had his fair share blame for missing Moss time and time again with his lousy accuracy. Puh-lease, Moss may not be as good as Eddie Royal, but he would still be productive if he was surrounded by crap(including a bad coach).[/quote]

Moss dropped a lot of balls and seems to either disappear or have slow starts during the season. He always was our "#1" receiver, but in reality he wasn't.

Re: Samuels Will Hold Noon Press Conference on Thursday to Announce Retirement
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;669014]Now GTripp dogging Moss even though Campbell has had his fair share blame for missing Moss time and time again with his lousy accuracy. Puh-lease, Moss may not be as good as Eddie Royal, but he would still be productive if he was surrounded by crap(including a bad coach).[/quote]And Hank Stram could still be coaching if he was still alive.

But he's not.

And Moss isn't productive, and that's not Campbell's fault. It's not like Moss would be productive if Campbell had hit him instead of overthrown him the two times he did this year. He had 120 targets this year.

Re: Samuels Will Hold Noon Press Conference on Thursday to Announce Retirement
 

[quote=GTripp0012;669008]I'm on board with whatever the team decides to do with Randle El's contract option coming up this year. I just struggle to understand why some fans have been trying to kick Randle El to the curb for three years when he's been consistently more valuable year in and year out than Moss.

I am totally okay with moving on from the both of them and having Thomas-Kelly-Mitchell go 1-2-3 on the depth chart. Makes perfect sense to me if the team wants to do that. What doesn't make sense to me is moving Randle El out so we can put Moss in the very role that Randle El has done to near perfection for the last three years.

I haven't exactly come around on Thomas yet, but I can see his value to the team when combined with Kelly and Mitchell. He's the best ball-carrier of the three, no idea what that is worth.[/quote]Oh, like he's utterly worthless at special teams, also can get a case of the dropsies, and is not a deep threat?
Definitely expendable.

Re: Samuels Will Hold Noon Press Conference on Thursday to Announce Retirement
 

[quote=Mattyk;668843]He says he wants to coach next, wonder if we can make room for him?[/quote]

I was hoping he'd say that, thought that it would've come out before now though so I wasn't holding my breath.

Speaking of.. whatever happened with Thrash? We heard after the cut/retirement he was out there in warmup gear like an assistant, then never heard about him again?

Re: Samuels Will Hold Noon Press Conference on Thursday to Announce Retirement
 

[quote=GTripp0012;668905]If he had retired at 28, it would have been similar to Samuels retiring now at 32. Since 2007, he's been a negative effect on the offense (exception to a 5 game stretch in 2008). I do not believe that any amount of Shanahan magic is going to make Moss a valuable player like he was in 2004 and (particularly) 2005.

Most players are like Moss in that they keep playing until they just don't have the desire to play anymore. Maybe Samuels would have been like this if he had the option to play longer. But in his ten year career, he was still our best lineman when he went out, and that's pretty special.[/quote]

Who's the last good receiver to go out on top that wasn't injured?

Re: Samuels Will Hold Noon Press Conference on Thursday to Announce Retirement
 

[quote=Mattyk;668983]Moss has never been a big TD producer even in his prime, and it's not like JC is a TD tossing machine either.[/quote]

Not many passes coming from that Jumbo formation lol

Chris Samuels; Thanks
 

Thanks for a great career, and being a true Redskin. Great press confrence, i hate Dallas too.


Re-tread thread, but the other one has turned BS.

Re: Samuels Will Hold Noon Press Conference on Thursday to Announce Retirement
 

Oh yes, loved the parting shot at Dallas!

Re: Samuels Will Hold Noon Press Conference on Thursday to Announce Retirement
 

[quote=tryfuhl;669110]Who's the last good receiver to go out on top that wasn't injured?[/quote]Jimmy Smith, maybe?

Most players don't go out on top, which is what makes Samuels' decision notable.

Re: Samuels Will Hold Noon Press Conference on Thursday to Announce Retirement
 

Hes been a great one. I can only hope we get a replacement that will fill those big shoes ASAP! Like tonight ;)....OR Draft day!


Good luck Chris a true class act! Enjoy your new life and hopefully a solid and fun time coaching.

Re: Samuels Will Hold Noon Press Conference on Thursday to Announce Retirement
 

[quote=tryfuhl;669101]I was hoping he'd say that, thought that it would've come out before now though so I wasn't holding my breath.

Speaking of.. whatever happened with Thrash? We heard after the cut/retirement he was out there in warmup gear like an assistant, then never heard about him again?[/quote]

Unless something changed in the past couple of months he's with the organization. I forget the exact title. Director of Player Development I think. Basically he helps young players transition to life as an NFL player. Mainly all the things they have to deal with off the field

Re: Samuels Will Hold Noon Press Conference on Thursday to Announce Retirement
 

[quote=GTripp0012;669261]Jimmy Smith, maybe?

Most players don't go out on top, which is what makes Samuels' decision notable.[/quote]

Yep; especially with the egos of the skill players. Doesn't hurt to still get a few mil a year too.

Re: Samuels Will Hold Noon Press Conference on Thursday to Announce Retirement
 

[quote=SmootSmack;669294]Unless something changed in the past couple of months he's with the organization. I forget the exact title. Director of Player Development I think. Basically he helps young players transition to life as an NFL player. Mainly all the things they have to deal with off the field[/quote]

Thanks for that; great role for him.

Re: Samuels Will Hold Noon Press Conference on Thursday to Announce Retirement
 

[quote=tryfuhl;669615]Thanks for that; great role for him.[/quote]

Well he is super-smart, a core guy and a true Redskin.

Re: Samuels Will Hold Noon Press Conference on Thursday to Announce Retirement
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;669631]Well he is super-smart, a core guy and a true Redskin.[/quote]

Please don't forget to mention he always fought his guts out :)

Re: Samuels Will Hold Noon Press Conference on Thursday to Announce Retirement
 

[quote=The Goat;669636]Please don't forget to mention he always fought his guts out :)[/quote]

Is that you Coach Gibbs?