Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;676383]I'd like to see one of them playing SS and have a beast FS. They can both change up and play special teams and cost less than Landry.[/quote]


This sounds like the "Why did we sign LJ and why haven't we dropped Portis" arguments because there are dozens of 1500 yard young runningbacks just waiting for a team to sign them.

We could get a beast at safety with the 4th pick. Oh wait a minute, we still need Tackles, Guards, a linebacker, a runningback and a possibly QB.

Well, I am sure we can get a starter at one of those positions with the 5th rounder we would get for Landry.

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;676333]Sammy, maybe you have explained this but why are you 1000% sure about Clausen? You don't waver at all, I just want to know why you think he is an absolute no brainer at 4 when historically the draft is a glorified crapshoot.

Given the fact that if we pick him and he is a failure, like many of the ND QBs, we are screwed for years.[/quote]Great question. Here's what's gone into my opinion on Clausen:

1) First I want to put it out there that I'm an ND fan. I hope that doesn't automatically dismiss my evalution in people's minds. For the record, I wasn't a Powlus or Mirer fan and while I like Quinn, I can certainly understand him falling in the draft and he's a totally different QB from Clausen.

That being said, I watch a good deal of ND football. ND during Clausen's tenure certainly hasn't been a team that out-talents it's competition week in and week out. ND doesn't have many games where they simply "throw their jerseys on the field" and get a win, like OU, Texas, Florida, USC, etc. ND hasn't had much of a D and the OL has been average at best (very suspect at worst). Clausen carried ND offensively this year, he engineered 4th Qtr wins or put ND in position to win against Michigan, Mich St., Purdue, Washington, USC (would've gone to OT if WR hadn't fell), BC, UConn and Stanford. Did he crap the bed against Navy, absolutely. But that game was the exception, not the rule.

2) Statistically he had a junior season that was better than both Mannings, Rivers, and Stafford. There's a great breakdown done by one of the guys at Walter Football that I've posted before.

[URL="http://walterfootball.com/mattblog091229.php"]WalterFootball.com: The NFL Matt Draft - Matt McGuire's NFL Draft Blog[/URL]

Here another interesting link:

[url=http://www.cfbstats.com/2009/player/513/1010448/passing/split.html]cfbstats.com - Jimmy Clausen 2009 Player Statistics - Notre Dame Fighting Irish[/url]

This is a split stats link on Clausen. A couple of things I noticed:
- Against teams with winning records his QB rating is slightly lower, however his TD to INT ratio was better against winning teams, while throwing an average of 7 times more per game, or close to 20% more. To me this shows that Clausen is capable of stepping up against better teams.
- In ND losses, his TD/INT ratio was actually better than in the ND wins, while throwing an average of 14 more times per game or 33% more. In the ND losses, the running game was non-existent and Clausen had the burden squarely on his shoulders, but he still performed well.
- His number of pass attempts increased throughout the year, from an average of 29/gm early on to 42/gm late in the season.
- Against ranked teams he averaged 42 att/gm with a QB rating of 122. 3TDs - 1 INT.

3) Clausen comes from a football family, he's had the experience of his brothers to draw on. He's also been the #1 QB in the country coming out of HS, now he's the #1 or #2 QB coming out of college. The guy understands expectations and pressure. Think being the Skins QB is pressure, ND QB has similar pressure

4) Clausen is a film rat and hard worker. Quinn was a gym rat, 25 reps in the bench isn't going to help you read a D, influence a safety and squeeze a throw into a tight window. Spending hours in the film room will. "Know your enemy and know yourself and you will never fear in 100 battles." Sun Tzu.

5) He's over 6' 2", height isn't a concern. He's over 220, size isn't a concern. Hand size....I've watched enough of him to see that he can throw the ball pretty damn good, "small" hands or not.

6) Clausen had great pro-style coaching, who's a better QB coach than Charlie Weis. Jaworski (whose opinion I respect) says both Bradford and Clausen have the skills to be NFL starters, so I don't see Clausen being a bust.

Clausen has above average NFL level physical tools (arm strength, accuracy), a high football IQ, and the attitude to be the guy in the spotlight, the guy that has to make the play. I think the "leadership" questions are a non-issue, there hasn't been anything concrete I've seen and Kiper (while not the all-knowing oracle) does have good connections within college football and he doesn't believe there's an issue.

Clausen is a franchise level QB. He's a guy that will be able to take an NFL team deep into the playoffs within 2-3 years. We have the #4 overall pick, a guy with a bunch of indicators that he will be a very good NFL QB is there, it's a no brainer he must be taken. Being in a high draft position doesn't happen often (hopefully) and to have a franchise QB there is an opportunity that can't be passed on.

If he busts, what have we lost...just a single 1st round pick. We won't have to trade up, or lose other players, or otherwise mortgage the future of the franchise. What if Okung turns out to be just a good LT, not Pro Bowl level? What good was the #4 pick then? We can get good LTs in a number of ways. A franchise QB is much harder to come by.

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

^ Despite all of this, Clausen still seems to be second to Bradford in the eyes of many pundits (good points presented though).

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;676430]Great question. Here's what's gone into my opinion on Clausen:

1) First I want to put it out there that I'm an ND fan. I hope that doesn't automatically dismiss my evalution in people's minds. For the record, I wasn't a Powlus or Mirer fan and while I like Quinn, I can certainly understand him falling in the draft and he's a totally different QB from Clausen.

That being said, I watch a good deal of ND football. ND during Clausen's tenure certainly hasn't been a team that out-talents it's competition week in and week out. ND doesn't have many games where they simply "throw their jerseys on the field" and get a win, like OU, Texas, Florida, USC, etc. ND hasn't had much of a D and the OL has been average at best (very suspect at worst). Clausen carried ND offensively this year, he engineered 4th Qtr wins or put ND in position to win against Michigan, Mich St., Purdue, Washington, USC (would've gone to OT if WR hadn't fell), BC, UConn and Stanford. Did he crap the bed against Navy, absolutely. But that game was the exception, not the rule.

2) Statistically he had a junior season that was better than both Mannings, Rivers, and Stafford. There's a great breakdown done by one of the guys at Walter Football that I've posted before.

[URL="http://walterfootball.com/mattblog091229.php"]WalterFootball.com: The NFL Matt Draft - Matt McGuire's NFL Draft Blog[/URL]

3) Clausen comes from a football family, he's had the experience of his brothers to draw on. He's also been the #1 QB in the country coming out of HS, now he's the #1 or #2 QB coming out of college. The guy understands expectations and pressure. Think being the Skins QB is pressure, ND QB has similar pressure

4) Clausen is a film rat and hard worker. Quinn was a gym rat, 25 reps in the bench isn't going to help you read a D, influence a safety and squeeze a throw into a tight window. Spending hours in the film room will. "Know your enemy and know yourself and you will never fear in 100 battles." Sun Tzu.

5) He's over 6' 2", height isn't a concern. He's over 220, size isn't a concern. Hand size....I've watched enough of him to see that he can throw the ball pretty damn good, "small" hands or not.

6) Clausen had great pro-style coaching, who's a better QB coach than Charlie Weis. Jaworski (whose opinion I respect) says both Bradford and Clausen have the skills to be NFL starters, so I don't see Clausen being a bust.

Clausen has above average NFL level physical tools (arm strength, accuracy), a high football IQ, and the attitude to be the guy in the spotlight, the guy that has to make the play. I think the "leadership" questions are a non-issue, there hasn't been anything concrete I've seen and Kiper (while not the all-knowing oracle) does have good connections within college football and he doesn't believe there's an issue.

Clausen is a franchise level QB. He's a guy that will be able to take an NFL team deep into the playoffs within 2-3 years. We have the #4 overall pick, a guy with a bunch of indicators that he will be a very good NFL QB is there, it's a no brainer he must be taken. Being in a high draft position doesn't happen often (hopefully) and to have a franchise QB there is an opportunity that can't be passed on.

If he busts, what have we lost...just a single 1st round pick. We won't have to trade up, or lose other players, or otherwise mortgage the future of the franchise. What if Okung turns out to be just a good LT, not Pro Bowl level? What good was the #4 pick then? We can get good LTs in a number of ways. A franchise QB is much harder to come by.[/quote]


Good explanation. I was definitely aware of his comeback resume. I am somewhat skeptical of his stats because a lot of these pro-style offense QBs put up good numbers.

It seems like he is a "love him or hate him" pick. His proponents cannot say enough good things about him while the skeptics make it sound like he barely belongs in the first round.

If Vinny signed him, I would throw up. However, I trust these guys to make the proper evaluation.

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

[quote=Ruhskins;676432]^ Despite all of this, Clausen still seems to be second to Bradford in the eyes of many pundits (good points presented though).[/quote]True, but no one will know how this debate will play out for at least 2, possibly three years.

For us, the only folks that matter are the Shanahans and Bruce Allen. These guys will have watched more tape on both guys than any of the pundits. This decision will be a big part of their legacy, one way or the other. Get it right and they're geniuses, get it wrong and they're looking for jobs in 3 years.

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;676433]Good explanation. I was definitely aware of his comeback resume. I am somewhat skeptical of his stats because[B] a lot of these pro-style offense QBs put up good numbers[/B].
[/quote]It's generally the spread offense guys like Bradford, McCoy, Lefevour, etc. who get inflated numbers. The spread uses smoke routes, bubble screens, regular screens, slants, and other short routes instead of runs. This gives easy completion stats and with teams with superior talent at WR, like OU, Texas, Florida, a lot of YAC yards that inflate a QB's numbers.

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

You make a good case for Clausen Sammy, and you may very well be right about him. I won't pretend to know his future one way or the other. But I do have a couple of questions. You say if Clausen busts, what have we lost, just a single 1rst round pick. But if Okung is only "good", what good was the #4 pick then? I would rather have a good player than a bust. I think you may have been a little biased there. :) Also, why do guys like Mike Mayock say that if you draft a QB in the first round and he's a bust, your franchise is screwed for the next 5 years?

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

Don't be fooled: Clausen put up a lot of his numbers because of spread concepts in 2009. Let's at least be honest. If the spread is a mitigating factor on the validity of numbers (it's not), then we have to take out all of the most effective college passers because they ALL use them.

Notre Dame didn't ever scrap the under center play action offensive staple that Weis loves, but he's been running the shotgun bubble screen and slant passes since his NE days.

There's nothing wrong with taking snaps in the shotgun though, since NFL teams are going to have to adapt it's concepts to compete in the future.

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

^^^Sorry, that should be don't get fooled into thinking that the Mack Brown/Bob Stoops offensive scheme is somehow less pro-style than Weis'. Urban Meyer...now that guy has a college offense.

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

I like your analysis, Sammy. Pretty compelling argument, if not slightly biased. Oh well.

The thing I like about Clausen, if anything at all, is what he lacks in physicality he compensates for in football smarts. The guy doesn't make many mental errors or loses the game for his team. I think he's a very solid pack. Unfortunately for the Skins, he's coming out in a year when it's a two horse race and the NFL loves to market QBs and inflate their value this time of the year. But that's another story.

Bradford - I just can't see myself taking that kind of gamble on a guy with the first pick in the draft while he's still rehabbing an injured shoulder. It's one thing to display your mechanics in a controlled environment, it's another trying to get a pass off with DeMarcus Ware breathing down your neck.

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

Clausen is definitely a McNabb/Campbell type of ball-holder. He's nothing like Jay Cutler or Eli Manning on the sack spectrum. IMO, one of Clausen's greatest strengths is that he's smart with the football.

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

Sammy you just reminded me of something as I was thinking about the Skins picking him and it really hasn't been talked about.

I don't think it's out of the question that Clausen wants to vindicate the Notre Dame program by becoming a standout pro quarterback. I know I'm reaching with that theory, but if you look at the past few QBs to come out of Notre Dame and it's not a stretch to say they've disappointed. I think there's a lot of pride there and maybe a team with our history and tradition will resonate with him. I don't know, like I said, it's just a hunch I have but...

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

I'd imagine the easiest way to vindicate ND's program would have been to stay and win at Notre Dame. I think it's accepted in this day and age that QBs leave school early, but many an Irish traditionalist feel spurned by Clausen for not winning, but leaving before he had done his job in college.

There is probably an element of arrogance there, as Clausen should be looking out for himself first, but I do think that looking out for himself ($) came at the expense of ND winning a bunch in 2010.

Oh, and I <3 Brian Kelly.

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

I think the sense that Weis wasn't returning had to influence his decision as well. Sure the money and opportunity played a larger role, perhaps. But I wonder what impact, if any, that had on his decision to leave ND.

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

[quote=12thMan;676452]I think the sense that Weis wasn't returning had to influence his decision as well. Sure the money and opportunity played a larger role, perhaps. But I wonder what impact, if any, that had on his decision to leave ND.[/quote]


If he gets picked 4th (or anywhere near the top) it was the right decision. The $ is just too good and if you add that to the fact that rookie contracts are going to be under intense scrutiny in the next CBA, he had to do it.

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

what happened today with joey porter? Contract talks yet?

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

[quote=12thMan;676452]I think the sense that Weis wasn't returning had to influence his decision as well. Sure the money and opportunity played a larger role, perhaps. But I wonder what impact, if any, that had on his decision to leave ND.[/quote]Good point. A lot, I'd imagine.

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

According to Wikipedia, Andre Carter plays defensive end for the New Orleans Saints.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andre_Carter]Andre Carter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

Either somebody knows something we don't, or someone who has access to the internet wants us to "know" something we don't.

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

^He's getting traded there, thats old news

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

Doesn't Smith play RDE for New Orleans? He's arguably better than Carter so I'm not sure who would play where. Not sure Carter could handle LDE in any defense. Smith I think is the bigger guy but who's to say he's moving? Could happen just as Daniels moved from right to left in his career.

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;676117]Redskins met with Bowling Green WR Freddie Barnes after (or maybe before) his Pro Day performance yesterday

[B]Redskins showing a lot of interest in Eric Berry, may bring him in for a private workout. [/B]

Zac Robinson as well[/quote]

As cool as this would be (Draft FS Eric Berry and move Laron Landry back to SS) i dont see it happening. I think the Redskins assume that Bradford goes #1 to the Rams and Okung goes #2 to the Lions so they are showing interest in the top players left to try n drive up trade up interest. Im guessing Bradford and Okung are #1 n #2 on the redskins board so when they are both gone the redskins options are a lil less clear. With rumors that no team is interested in trading up to scoop Clausen, we hafta start showing interest in whatever DT (Suh or McCoy) and FS Eric Berry so teams who would benefit most from these players will be tempted to trade up. Therefore we can move back, pick up another pick in another round, and still get Clausen (if that is indeed what shanahan wants) or grab an OT thats not as much a reach as they would be at #4.

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;676448]Clausen is definitely a McNabb/Campbell type of ball-holder. He's nothing like Jay Cutler or Eli Manning on the sack spectrum. IMO, one of Clausen's greatest strengths is that he's smart with the football.[/quote]

..in college,the pro game is different.

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

[QUOTE]According to Wikipedia, Andre Carter plays defensive end for the New Orleans Saints.



[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andre_Carter]Andre Carter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]



Either somebody knows something we don't, or someone who has access to the internet wants us to "know" something we don't.[/QUOTE]
Interesting the wiki says he was traded for a 3rd rd pick, but it would have to be in the 2011 draft because it is conditional and could be upgraded. Anyone find out if this is real or just internet shananigans (leprachauns were out and about the last few days Yay)

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;676460]According to Wikipedia, Andre Carter plays defensive end for the New Orleans Saints.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andre_Carter]Andre Carter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

Either somebody knows something we don't, or someone who has access to the internet wants us to "know" something we don't.[/quote]

Well that's interesting...guess it would explain why he's been a bit of a no show this week. And could be the "huge news" I've been told to expect out of Redskin Park today...or could just be Tripp conducting his usual wikiantics

Still, a 2011 3rd round pick that could be a 2nd? That's not too bad. Except with the Saints we're talking basically a 4th that could be a 3rd.

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;676455]what happened today with joey porter? Contract talks yet?[/quote]

They'll talk business today. Last night was just a friendly dinner

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;676460]According to Wikipedia, Andre Carter plays defensive end for the New Orleans Saints.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andre_Carter]Andre Carter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

Either somebody knows something we don't, or someone who has access to the internet wants us to "know" something we don't.[/quote]

edit history

5:35p 3/18 - Herndon area ISP
- On March 18, 2010 he was traded to the New Orleans Saints for their third round pick, which could turn into a second round pick should he make the Pro Bowl.

11:35p 3/18
- On March 18, 2010 he was traded to the New Orleans Saints for their 2012 tenth round pick, which could turn into a sixth round pick should he make spagetti really well for his family.

current still has him as a saint but any trade info has been removed

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;676433]Good explanation. I was definitely aware of his comeback resume. I am somewhat skeptical of his stats because a lot of these pro-style offense QBs put up good numbers.
[/quote]

Yeah well what about the spread guys?

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;676461]^He's getting traded there, thats old news[/quote]

oh??

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;676476]Well that's interesting...guess it would explain why he's been a bit of a no show this week. And could be the "huge news" I've been told to expect out of Redskin Park today...or could just be Tripp conducting his usual wikiantics

Still, a 2011 3rd round pick that could be a 2nd? That's not too bad. Except with the Saints we're talking basically a 4th that could be a 3rd.[/quote]

yeah that's a good deal, I'd take it

looking forward to the full scoop

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

No word as of this morning.

I would say that usually when it's the Redskins themselves that tell me "Big news today" it's usually something "big" like "Notre Dame to play at FedEx" or "Snyder sending food to Haiti and Chile" When it's actual big news, I hear it from elsewhere.

I just hope Carter knows how to make good spaghetti

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

[quote=tryfuhl;676487]Yeah well what about the spread guys?[/quote]


His stats were given as one of the reasons that he should be drafted (I think Sammy said that he had better stats than Manning and a few other guys). My point was that because he was in Charlie Weis' pro-style offense I wasn't going to weigh stats as much as I normally would.

Quinn had good stats too but that hasn't translated to professional success, yet.

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;676476]Well that's interesting...guess it would explain why he's been a bit of a no show this week. And could be the "huge news" I've been told to expect out of Redskin Park today...or could just be Tripp conducting his usual wikiantics

Still, a 2011 3rd round pick that could be a 2nd? That's not too bad. Except with the Saints we're talking basically a 4th that could be a 3rd.[/quote]


If that is the case, cudos to Allen. It seemed pretty obvious that Carter was the odd man out. I have no bad things to say about Carter. While his production was up and down, he brought it every game. He is a true professional and I would be very happy for him if he landed on a good team like New Orleans.

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

why are we speaking of Carter in the past tense? Its wikipedia for goodness sakes.

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;676515]why are we speaking of Carter in the past tense? Its wikipedia for goodness sakes.[/quote]

most people said if or would or whatever

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

[quote=12thMan;676449]I don't think it's out of the question that Clausen wants to vindicate the Notre Dame program by becoming a standout pro quarterback. I know I'm reaching with that theory, but if you look at the past few QBs to come out of Notre Dame and it's not a stretch to say they've disappointed. I think there's a lot of pride there and maybe a team with our history and tradition will resonate with him. I don't know, like I said, it's just a hunch I have but...[/quote]IMO, I don't think that's on Clausen's radar at all. He's much more concerned with being a successful NFL QB and helping his team win. He went to ND because of Weis' coaching and how that would set him up for the NFL. If Weis wasn't there, he could've very easily wound up at USC.

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;676439]Don't be fooled: Clausen put up a lot of his numbers because of spread concepts in 2009. Let's at least be honest. [B]If the spread is a mitigating factor on the validity of numbers (it's not)[/B], then we have to take out all of the most effective college passers because they ALL use them.
[/quote]The spread certainly doesn't invalidate numbers, but it needs to be a factor to be considered in the evaluation of a QBs transition to the NFL. The big advantage of the spread is it allows superior athletes to work in space. In the NFL, the talent disparity between players is a lot less than what it is in college. Those bubble screens that go for 20+ in the NCAA, will go for 4-6 in the NFL. The 5 yd dig that turns into a TD in the NCAA, will often turn into a WR getting his head taken off by an LB or SS in the NFL.

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

[quote=53Fan;676437]You say if Clausen busts, what have we lost, just a single 1rst round pick. But if Okung is only "good", what good was the #4 pick then? I would rather have a good player than a bust. I think you may have been a little biased there.[/quote]Pocket mentioned the same thing you said below about missing at #4 sets the franchise back 5 years. What I was trying to point out was that no matter who we pick at #4 there's a chance he could not live up to expectations. Then where are we?

Look at some of our recent high picks that haven't lived up to expectations:
- Carlos Rogers
- Landry
- Sean Taylor (IMO, he would've. RIP)

I don't think these picks set us back 5 years. Had these guys been more productive we would've been in better position, but they haven't destroyed the franchise. If Okung turns out to be just good, not Pro Bowl level, but our expectation at #4 is Pro Bowl, we lost some value at the pick but it doesn't cripple the franchise (I believe Okung will be a Pro Bowl level player within 2-3 years)

In our situation, if we draft Clausen and he's a Matt Leinart, what have we lost. We didn't make a massive trade ala the Bears for Cutler, which will cripple their franchise for years if he has another season like last year. We won't have given up any promising players to move up to get Clausen. If we don't trade Campbell we still have a starting QB, although one with limitations. A miss on Clausen at 4 will realisitcally hurt us for a couple of years at that position. If he doesn't pan out, we're still in the same position we have been since Joe T., looking for the franchise QB.

Every team and situation is different, for a team that's rebuilding around a highly drafted QB and they miss, I think it could take 5 years to recover. Had Manning busted in Indy, they would've been in bad shape. SD was a mess after Leaf. But that's not our situation today.

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;676524]Pocket mentioned the same thing you said below about missing at #4 sets the franchise back 5 years. What I was trying to point out was that no matter who we pick at #4 there's a chance he could not live up to expectations. Then where are we?

Look at some of our recent high picks that haven't lived up to expectations:
- Carlos Rogers
- Landry
- Sean Taylor (IMO, he would've. RIP)

[B]I don't think these picks set us back 5 years. Had these guys been more productive we would've been in better position, but they haven't destroyed the franchise.[/B] If Okung turns out to be just good, not Pro Bowl level, but our expectation at #4 is Pro Bowl, we lost some value at the pick but it doesn't cripple the franchise (I believe Okung will be a Pro Bowl level player within 2-3 years)

In our situation, if we draft Clausen and he's a Matt Leinart, what have we lost. We didn't make a massive trade ala the Bears for Cutler, which will cripple their franchise for years if he has another season like last year. We won't have given up any promising players to move up to get Clausen. If we don't trade Campbell we still have a starting QB, although one with limitations. A miss on Clausen at 4 will realisitcally hurt us for a couple of years at that position. If he doesn't pan out, we're still in the same position we have been since Joe T., looking for the franchise QB.

Every team and situation is different, for a team that's rebuilding around a highly drafted QB and they miss, I think it could take 5 years to recover. Had Manning busted in Indy, they would've been in bad shape. SD was a mess after Leaf. But that's not our situation today.[/quote]

Have you not noticed in the last ten years other then two playoff years we have sucked big time, I am not saying just those miss picks have made us suck but sure didn't help us get better.

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

Here is what makes me laugh on here at times folks are like the Browns suck, the Raiders suck, the Chief suck, etc... Guess what we suck too! Other NFL cities fans look at us as sucking.

It reminds me of my grandmother when I go to visit her in the old folks home she always whispers to me[I] "bunch old people in here"[/I]. Makes me want to scream you are old too!

Re: 2010 NFL Off-Season Rumors and Reports (Week 3)
 

[quote=mredskins;676534]Here is what makes me laugh on here at times folks are like the Browns suck, the Raiders suck, the Chief suck, etc... Guess what we suck too! Other NFL cities fans look at us as sucking.

It reminds me of my grandmother when I go to visit her in the old folks home she always whispers to me[I] "bunch old people in here"[/I]. Makes me want to scream you are old too![/quote]

Yeah, there are a lot of delusional fans running around.