Re: Predict Our Five Starters On the O-Line
 

[quote=SmootSmack;689757]That's such a peculiar set-up there: former HC Jim Zorn is the QB coach, former HC Al Saunders is the Senior Offensive Consultant, former HC Cam Cameron is the Offensive Coordinator[/quote]

And a former Special Teams Coach is the Head Coach. Boo ya!

Re: Predict Our Five Starters On the O-Line
 

Charles Brown
Dockery
Tebow
M.Williams
J.Kidding

Re: Predict Our Five Starters On the O-Line
 

I am holding out hope that we get our starting LT-(Okung) in this draft, and at least someone to compete for the starting RT spot-(Capers, Newhouse).

Re: Predict Our Five Starters On the O-Line
 

The more I read this post, the more Im starting to face the fact Flozell would probably be a good signing at this point. Heyer, Hicks, or a fourth round rookie at RT is going to get McNabb seriously injured. At this point, 1st pick in the draft absolutely has to be a LT....

Re: Predict Our Five Starters On the O-Line
 

So what does everyone think at this point?

I'm hoping our line looks something like this:


Williams, Dockery, Rabach, Hicks/M. Williams, Hicks/F. Adams.

I'm still all for signing Flozel Adams for a year or two until we can draft some more linemen.

I'm not the best evaluator of talent on the offensive line, but what are the reports on Hicks and Mike Williams coming into this year? I know Williams was better suited for a gaurd play, but I could never really tell because we just looked so bad last year.

Re: Predict Our Five Starters On the O-Line
 

Williams(Brown)/Hicks,
Dockery/Hicks,
Rabach/E Williams,
M. Williams/Rinehart
Bushrod(Williams)/Heyer

I think Williams allows us to get Bushrod OR Brown from the Saints. If we get Brown, we start him at LT, and Williams at RT. If we get Bushrod than Williams starts at LT and Bushrod starts at RT

Re: Predict Our Five Starters On the O-Line
 

Our starting line could have 3 Williams on it at some point this year. Two more and we get a Royal Straight!

Re: Predict Our Five Starters On the O-Line
 

williams, dockery, rabach, hicks, heyer (where hes better)

i wouldnt mind signing flozel, or drafting another lineman in the 4th, but i think at this point with the drafting of "silverback" it allows us t focus on other areas of need...meaning john skelton of course

Re: Predict Our Five Starters On the O-Line
 

So I guess we can stop worrying about Kyle Shanahan's supreme confidence in our current OL group. The Williams pick shows they know what's up.

Re: Predict Our Five Starters On the O-Line
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;692918]Williams(Brown)/Hicks,
Dockery/Hicks,
Rabach/E Williams,
M. Williams/Rinehart
Bushrod(Williams)/Heyer

I think Williams allows us to get Bushrod OR Brown from the Saints. If we get Brown, we start him at LT, and Williams at RT. If we get Bushrod than Williams starts at LT and Bushrod starts at RT[/quote]

If Williams plays anywhere other than LT on our line then i'll view him as a colossal bust. you don't draft a RT in the top half of the 1st round, let alone 1st overall. While i understand his potential, i'm very concerned he'll become our version of Robert Gallery.

Re: Predict Our Five Starters On the O-Line
 

[quote=Mattyk;692922]So I guess we can stop worrying about Kyle Shanahan's supreme confidence in our current OL group. The Williams pick shows they know what's up.[/quote]

One thing about this group, they sure know how to keep a straight poker face! and blow a lot of smoke too.

Re: Predict Our Five Starters On the O-Line
 

[quote=Gmanc711;692916]So what does everyone think at this point?

I'm hoping our line looks something like this:


Williams, Dockery, Rabach, Hicks/M. Williams, Hicks/F. Adams.

I'm still all for signing Flozel Adams for a year or two until we can draft some more linemen.

I'm not the best evaluator of talent on the offensive line, but what are the reports on Hicks and Mike Williams coming into this year? I know Williams was better suited for a gaurd play, but I could never really tell because we just looked so bad last year.[/quote]

I hope it looks like Williams/Hicks/Williams/Rinehart/Bushrod by next year.

Re: Predict Our Five Starters On the O-Line
 

[quote=Mattyk;692922]So I guess we can stop worrying about Kyle Shanahan's supreme confidence in our current OL group. The Williams pick shows they know what's up.[/quote]

They decieved me???
I feel so.....used

Re: Predict Our Five Starters On the O-Line
 

[quote=Mattyk;692922]So I guess we can stop worrying about Kyle Shanahan's supreme confidence in our current OL group. The Williams pick shows they know what's up.[/quote]
Yep, lock it up for the next 10 years! This shows nothing!

haha

Re: Predict Our Five Starters On the O-Line
 

I can just pencil in Williams instead of Okung now, and my origional group remain unchanged.

T. Williams L/T
D. Dockery L/G
C. Rabach C
M. Williams R/G
A. Hicks R/T

Subject to change between now and then.

Re: Predict Our Five Starters On the O-Line
 

[quote=SmootSmack;689757]That's such a peculiar set-up there: former HC Jim Zorn is the QB coach, former HC Al Saunders is the Senior Offensive Consultant, former HC Cam Cameron is the Offensive Coordinator[/quote]

and... Former special teams coach is HC - maybe that's why he has all those former head coaches on offense.

Re: Predict Our Five Starters On the O-Line
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;692948]and... Former special teams coach is HC - maybe that's why he has all those former head coaches on offense.[/quote]

Dirtbag wants to know why you're a post-jacker?

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/689773-post81.html[/url]

Re: Predict Our Five Starters On the O-Line
 

[quote=SmootSmack;692953[B]]Dirtbag [/B]wants to know why you're a post-jacker?

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/689773-post81.html[/url][/quote]

Give him a 2 day suspension no posting allowed. LOL

Re: Predict Our Five Starters On the O-Line
 

First game of the season, I am going to go with:

LT: Adams/Jones/Gaither or J. Brown (Brown if I have to pick a guy now)
LG: Dock
C: Rabach
RG: Big Mike Williams
RT: T. Williams

I like what the Ravens did last year with Oher. They let a vet hold down LT and made Oher a RT at first. Of course our problem is that we don't have an established LT on the roster like the Ravens did.

We have to get another starting calibre Left Tackle on our team before the beginning of the year.

If Heyer is on the roster, he needs to be the third option for LT and second at RT at best...

Re: Predict Our Five Starters On the O-Line
 

I don't think Mike Williams is going to cut it. He's way too slow. I want Rinehart in the mix. He was highly regarded coming out...

[URL="http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/chad-rinehart?id=300#tabs:tab-analysis"]Chad Rinehart[/URL]

Re: Predict Our Five Starters On the O-Line
 

[quote=diehard;692969]I don't think Mike Williams is going to cut it. He's way too slow. I want Rinehart in the mix. He was highly regarded coming out...

[URL="http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/chad-rinehart?id=300#tabs:tab-analysis"]Chad Rinehart[/URL][/quote]


The coaches seem to like him. I think BMW got downfield a couple of times to mangle someone last year. It seems to me that BMW is better in pass pro than Rinehart.

Rinehart wasn't as highly regarded as BMW. BMW was a top 10 pick.

I am confident that both guys along with Hicks will get a legitimate shot and the best guy will play.

Re: Predict Our Five Starters On the O-Line
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;692975]The coaches seem to like him. I think BMW got downfield a couple of times to mangle someone last year. It seems to me that BMW is better in pass pro than Rinehart.

Rinehart wasn't as highly regarded as BMW. BMW was a top 10 pick.

[B]I am confident that both guys along with Hicks will get a legitimate shot and the best guy will play.[/B][/quote]
I agree, and think that the center of our line could be pretty good with the talent we have and the competition of camp.

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There's some talk of actually moving Heyer inside to guard. Probably something they'll experiment with this summer

Re: Predict Our Five Starters On the O-Line
 

[quote=SmootSmack;692983]There's some talk of actually moving Heyer inside to guard. Probably something they'll experiment with this summer[/quote]

I like this idea he can't do worse than he did at Tackle and can be large enough to do it..

Re: Predict Our Five Starters On the O-Line
 

I don't think it matters much. When we have a good OL Heyer will not be starting on it at any position. Some guys are just backups and if he can be a servicable backup at T & G then I guess thats a good thing.

Re: Predict Our Five Starters On the O-Line
 

[quote=diehard;692969]I don't think Mike Williams is going to cut it. He's way too slow. I want Rinehart in the mix. He was highly regarded coming out...

[URL="http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/chad-rinehart?id=300#tabs:tab-analysis"]Chad Rinehart[/URL][/quote]

You think MikeWilliams will be cut because you like Rinehart....umm interesting!!

I beg to differ....I think M. Williams will be the starting R/G (bar injury) when the season starts JMO. If there's an in-road to be had, he has it. He and our OC (along with Derrick Dockery) were college team-mates, there's some history there.

Re: Predict Our Five Starters On the O-Line
 

Yeah Shanahan had some good things to say about big Mike when we re-signed him. So you have to figure he's going to be a part of our plans going forward.

Re: Predict Our Five Starters On the O-Line
 

[quote=SmootSmack;692983]There's some talk of actually moving Heyer inside to guard. Probably something they'll experiment with this summer[/quote]
From what I have seen of Heyer, there is no way he can play guard. He does not get low, especialy on goal line and plays with poor leverage in the run game. Realy his strength is pass blocking with his long arms, and he sucks at that. Best place for him is Dallas, New York, or Philly.

Re: Predict Our Five Starters On the O-Line
 

I'm still concerned about the middle of the OL, whether Heyer moves inside or not, but the main concern seems to me to be getting another tackle who can play better there than Heyer. Maybe some good RT will appear as a post-draft cut that we can pick up.

Re: Predict Our Five Starters On the O-Line
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;692918]Williams(Brown)/Hicks,
Dockery/Hicks,
Rabach/E Williams,
M. Williams/Rinehart
Bushrod(Williams)/Heyer

I think Williams allows us to get Bushrod OR Brown from the Saints. If we get Brown, we start him at LT, and Williams at RT. If we get Bushrod than Williams starts at LT and Bushrod starts at RT[/quote]


what makes bushrod an attractive option at RT? admittedly i never really focused on his play when i watched saints games this year but from what i read and his rankings, hes not much better than a heyer or jones.

i think he did well for being a backup plugged into a starting role but hes been with the saints for 3 years as a backup learning their system, had drew brees as his qb and a dynamic offense. putting up points and winning the SB may make every saints players efforts in 09 look probowl in rose colored retrospect.

with all that being said he ranked something like 68th overall for tackles last year. heyer and jones were 71 and 72.

idk about bushrod, local guy but still dont see him being anything more than quality depth, not a long term answer at either tackle spot.

Re: Predict Our Five Starters On the O-Line
 

[quote=Longtimefan;693005]You think MikeWilliams will be cut because you like Rinehart....umm interesting!!

I beg to differ....I think M. Williams will be the starting R/G (bar injury) when the season starts JMO. If there's an in-road to be had, he has it. He and our OC (along with Derrick Dockery) were college team-mates, there's some history there.[/quote]

I didn't mean he would be cut. MW has limited range. He's slow footed. I cannot believe he thinks he can play OT in this league. Fans are quick to bash Heyer for giving up sacks. MW was just as bad. Most DEs in our division could run around MW twice untouched and still sack who's ever under center! Watch the tapes. All this dude has is size and strength. No speed. No stamina. He gets in the way of opposing defenders [U]and[/U] his fellow linemen. He doesn't even dominate guys who he's lucky (or might I say say rarely) get his hands on. He have a better chance winning on [I]The Biggest Loser[/I]. Rinehart could be the promising OL we long to draft today.

Re: Predict Our Five Starters On the O-Line
 

[quote=over the mountain;693017]what makes bushrod an attractive option at RT? admittedly i never really focused on his play when i watched saints games this year but from what i read and his rankings, hes not much better than a heyer or jones.

i think he did well for being a backup plugged into a starting role but hes been with the saints for 3 years as a backup learning their system, had drew brees as his qb and a dynamic offense. putting up points and winning the SB may make every saints players efforts in 09 look probowl in rose colored retrospect.

with all that being said he ranked something like 68th overall for tackles last year. heyer and jones were 71 and 72.

idk about bushrod, local guy but still dont see him being anything more than quality depth, not a long term answer at either tackle spot.[/quote]

umm, the grass is greener in New Orleans.:) My basic thinking is that Brown was better than Bushrod, but Bushrod was still better than anything we had, but I didn't really look deep at him.

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[quote=diehard;693018]I didn't mean he would be cut. MW has limited range. He's slow footed. I cannot believe he thinks he can play OT in this league. Fans are quick to bash Heyer for giving up sacks. MW was just as bad. Most DEs in our division could run around MW twice untouched and still sack who's ever under center! Watch the tapes. All this dude has is size and strength. No speed. No stamina. He gets in the way of opposing defenders [U]and[/U] his fellow linemen. He doesn't even dominate guys who he's lucky (or might I say say rarely) get his hands on. He have a better chance winning on [I]The Biggest Loser[/I]. Rinehart could be the promising OL we long to draft today.[/quote]

There is some truth in the way you characterize Williams from the tackle position. It could be the reason why they feel G is the better position for him at this stage of his career. Also, you must remember that he dealt with various injuries for most of last season, couple that with it being his first time back in football after an extended absence could explain some of his uneven play. Look for him to be a much better performer this year, more so from the G position than that of tackle.

Re: Predict Our Five Starters On the O-Line
 

[quote=Longtimefan;693028]There is some truth in the way you characterize Williams from the tackle position. It could be the reason why they feel G is the better position for him at this stage of his career. Also, you must remember that he dealt with various injuries for most of last season, couple that with it being his first time back in football after an extended absence could explain some of his uneven play. Look for him to be a much better performer this year, more so from the G position than that of tackle.[/quote]

OK. I'm a believer now. Go Skins!

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Does sit really matter who starts? As of right now the best guy on that line is Trent Williams.

God help us :doh:

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[quote=Longtimefan;692943]I can just pencil in Williams instead of Okung now, and my origional group remain unchanged.

T. Williams L/T
D. Dockery L/G
C. Rabach C
M. Williams R/G
A. Hicks R/T

Subject to change between now and then.[/quote]

Looking better. If we can upgrade one more position (either C, RG or RT), it'll look like a solid line.

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Breakdown of all our O-Lineman

[B]Trent Williams - [/B]Amazingly athletic, versatile prospect. Compares to....Ryan Clady. He will be a pleasant surprise this year for the people who didn't like this pick.

[B]Derrick Dockery -[/B] Reported to have short area quickness and he's a solid NFL starter regardless of the scheme.
[quote]Dockery is one of the most consistent and durable players in the league. He has excellent size, strength and limited-area athleticism. He has great power and punch at the point of attack as a zone run-blocker, while having the strength and size to anchor versus interior bull rushers.[/quote][B]Casey Rabach -[/B] I personally like him in this scheme. He's smarter then most people give him credit for and he fits the athletic profile of a zone blocker.

[B]Mike Williams - [/B]Putting a tackle at guard is always a plus when you want athleticism and from what I've heard about BMW is that he moves amazingly well for a big man. I would personally love it if he emerged as a starter.

[B]Stephon Heyer[/B] - Apparently the Bronco's coaching staff fixed Clady's habit of bending at the waist so maybe they could help Heyer recover after his horrible year last year. It will also help if he's healthy. Of course keep in mind Heyer isn't nearly as athletic as Clady but as Shanahn said Heyer has "untapped potential." Weather he capitalizes on it or just said it to say it remains to be seen. I think our 4th round pick, along with who's available at Tackle when we pick will tell us a decent amount concerning how the coaches feel about Heyer.

[B]Artis Hicks -[/B] Versatile strong lineman that apparently can play in a Zone blocking scheme in spite of the fact that he's pretty big.
[quote]He has decent initial pop off the line of scrimmage as a zone run-blocker and is best in a confined area. He uses his hands well to lock on but is inconsistent to stay connected to defenders. Hicks has average lateral agility and quickness, and gets exposed in space.[/quote][B]Chad Rinehart -[/B] Wildcard in the O-Line shuffle. Apparenlty he played well last year before getting injured so we'll see if he can live up to his potential this year. The fact that he played LT in college suggest he has the athleticism to succeed at Guard in the ZBS. At the same time I could easily see him getting cut.

[B]Kory Lichtensteiger -[/B] I like his prospects of succeeding Rabach, especially if Rabach plays down to a lot of peoples expectations. He could also easily be in the mix to start at Guard.

[B]Edwin Williams - [/B]I just want him, BMW, and Trent to start. Maybe Roydell Williams can get in at Reciever. However in all seriousness he seemed to generate a strong buzz in camp last year, but he's another guy I could see getting cut.

Conclusions:
We have a lot of people that have played Tackle, but not a whole lot of people I would be comfortable with playing Tackle for us. This includes BMW and Rinehart. Shawn Andrews seems to be catching some buzz around the fan base but that will likely be BMW 2.0 for us. We have some talent, now the only thing we need to find out is if Shanahan can experience the same success with "rejects" as he did in Denver.

Also right now I have 9 players listed as possible factors on the line. I think at max we carry 10, but thats pretty rare around the league to carry that many O-Lineman. Then again after last years walking wounded fiasco God knows we'll need all the help we can get.

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Love the the name BMW, hope he lives up to the value and reliabilty.

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[quote=NYCskinfan82;693090]Love the the name BMW, hope he lives up to the value and reliabilty.[/quote]

I guess it emerged last year out of necessity. I mean last year we had like a 1,000 people named Williams on our roster. This year it's like 1,500.

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It'll be Williams at LT and Adams at RT.