Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=Mattyk;696747]Legalize it and take away the black market, tax the shit outta of it too and clean up the debt

:cool-smil[/quote]


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izqpicEYE9o]YouTube - Bob Marley Legalize It Reefer Madness Smoking Song 420 Weed Medical Marijuana Hemp Reggae NORML Hemp[/ame]

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;696740]Do you know how the Communist Chinese fixed their opium problem?[/quote]


Dude, please don't take this the wrong way but you are a cancer on this site. I don't see eye to eye with a lot of folks on here but understand where they are coming from. Your soul reason for posting on here is just to be a jerk off at times.

I am sorry you lack attention and love in your real life but don't come here and piss in our Wheaties everyday it gets old.

You are like the Westboro Baptist Church of the Warpath.

I am sure I am not alone on this one.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=Mattyk;696747]Legalize it and take away the black market, tax the shit outta of it too and clean up the debt

:cool-smil[/quote]


Not to mention empty out our overpopulated prisons with pot users.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=firstdown;696749]Thats assuming that min wage is all they work for and all the companies would pay to replace them. Not sure the name of the company but they just got busted with over 300 illegals and within a couple of weeks had about all the positions filled with legal workers.[/quote]


I am assuming most illegals don't make min. wage.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=mredskins;696757]Dude, [B][I]please don't take this the wrong way but [/I][/B]you are a [B]cancer on this site[/B]. I don't see eye to eye with a lot of folks on here but understand where they are coming from. Your soul reason for posting on here is just to be a [B]jerk off [/B]at times.

I am sorry [B]you lack attention and love in your real life [/B]but don't come here and piss in our Wheaties everyday it gets old.

You are like the Westboro Baptist Church of the Warpath.

I am sure I am not alone on this one.[/quote]


i dont know any of you well enough yet to have an opinion... but that made me laugh.

like "no offense, but you are complete and utter douche."

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=mredskins;696757]Dude, please don't take this the wrong way but you are a cancer on this site. I don't see eye to eye with a lot of folks on here but understand where they are coming from. Your soul reason for posting on here is just to be a jerk off at times.

I am sorry you lack attention and love in your real life but don't come here and piss in our Wheaties everyday it gets old.

You are like the Westboro Baptist Church of the Warpath.

I am sure I am not alone on this one.[/quote]

What happened at Westboro Baptist Church?

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=mredskins;696757]Dude, please don't take this the wrong way but you are a cancer on this site. I don't see eye to eye with a lot of folks on here but understand where they are coming from. Your soul reason for posting on here is just to be a jerk off at times.

I am sorry you lack attention and love in your real life but don't come here and piss in our Wheaties everyday it gets old.

You are like the Westboro Baptist Church of the Warpath.

I am sure I am not alone on this one.[/quote]

LOL. I actually think TTE is pretty good entertainment.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=mredskins;696760]I am assuming most illegals don't make min. wage.[/quote]
I think they make more then min. but less then what the job would pay the average citizen. I know a person who uses illegals for a lawn care service and he says it has nothing to do with pay and all to do with the fact they show up everyday and do an honest days work.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=GMScud;696764]LOL. I actually think TTE is pretty good entertainment.[/quote]
Me too.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;696657]Well what's gonna make this law enforced when the previous ones were not enforced?[/quote]These statutes give a bigger "hammer" to the state of AZ to pursue legal action against cities/localities who think they can "do their own thing" with regards to enforcing existing immigration law.

Is it a silver bullet that will reduce the illegal immigrant numbers to zero in AZ, of course not. But it should help stem the influx of new illegal immigrants and possibly reduce existing numbers when they seek government services or break the law.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=firstdown;696769]Me too.[/quote]


I consider you good entrainment TTE is a waste of time.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=mredskins;696757]Dude, please don't take this the wrong way but you are a cancer on this site. I don't see eye to eye with a lot of folks on here but understand where they are coming from. Your soul reason for posting on here is just to be a jerk off at times.

I am sorry you lack attention and love in your real life but don't come here and piss in our Wheaties everyday it gets old.

You are like the Westboro Baptist Church of the Warpath.

I am sure I am not alone on this one.[/quote]

TTE's posts may be gruff, or rough, at times, but he expresses his sentiments, and I don't think they are as far afield as you make it sound. Of course on immigration I don't agree with the position he takes, but it's valid to say that Mexican drug cartels have destroyed Mexico and force the immigration up here. Mexico has lots of resources, and obviously a segment of the population that is hard working who end up coming here because we offer stability and an opportunity for a better life in theory.

TTE has a lot of ideas that reflect back to the better parts of our Constitution, but that have gotten lost by the political correctness of the United States media. As for how he expresses himself, well, I don't think every member of the Continental Congress spoke King's English.

[Statue of Liberty Inscription]
[I] Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"[B]Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp![/B]" cries she
' With silent lips. "[B]Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door[/B]!"[/I]

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

ILLINOIS - President Obama calls in riot squad against the will of local law enforcement to intimidate peaceful protesters guilty of saying "God Bless America"

[url=http://biggovernment.com/jhoft/2010/04/28/team-obama-calls-out-swat-team-on-tea-party-patriots/]» Team Obama Calls Out Swat Team on Tea Party Patriots! - Big Government[/url]


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets see how he handles the illegals protesting for the "right" to be able to stay and break the law this weekend around the country.

[url=http://www.contracostatimes.com/news/ci_14979741?source=rss&nclick_check=1]Arizona illegal immigrant law spurs May Day protests - ContraCostaTimes.com[/url]




Insane how suddenly the citizens of this nation have fewer "rights" than the illegal aliens.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=mredskins;696757]Dude, please don't take this the wrong way but you are a cancer on this site. I don't see eye to eye with a lot of folks on here but understand where they are coming from. Your soul reason for posting on here is just to be a jerk off at times.

I am sorry you lack attention and love in your real life but don't come here and piss in our Wheaties everyday it gets old.

You are like the Westboro Baptist Church of the Warpath.

I am sure I am not alone on this one.[/quote]

Don't read my posts then jack ass.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;696734]Even in South Carolina that won't fly. No search warrant no coming in. We need to bring that subject up when it comes to government waste. I know a few folks who have gotten between 100,000 to 200,000. People have rights ya know.[/quote]

joey, ive spent alot of time on all sides of the law. i just got off the phone talking with an addict who is a person of interest in a drug dealer murder in dc. while what happened to her would never happen to me or you, it happens in the ghetto all the time.

ive reviewed search warrant applications, have sat in every chair imaginable for criminal cases.

trust me, no warrant no entry may be the law on paper (excluding no knock warrants) but in the real world the ends justify the means.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=Rainy Parade;696761]i dont know any of you well enough yet to have an opinion... [B]but that made me laugh.[/B]

like "no offense, but you are complete and utter douche."[/quote]

Me too....out loud
AND, TTE is a valued member of the WP disfunctional famliy......

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=saden1;696683]We're all grow men, let's bring facts to the table shall we?

1. It makes sanctuary cities liable citizen lawsuits. These citizens will be suing themselves and AZ is the [URL="http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=711"]most broke state in the country[/URL] (yes, even more broken than Cali). Some will claim they're broke because of all the welfare they provide for undocumented aliens but the real questions is how do undocumented aliens obtain these welfare services and how does this law address that issue? You must understand that these aliens have fake everything, license, social security, you name it, they have it.[/quote]This point is a huge reach. The sanctuary cities are only liable in the following cases:

"[B]implements a policy or practice that limits or restricts the enforcement of federal immigration laws to less than the full extent permitted by federal law. [/B]If there is a judicial finding that an entity has violated this section, the court shall order that the entity pay a civil penalty of not less than one thousand dollars and not more than five thousand dollars for each day that the policy has remained in effect after the filing of an action pursuant to this subsection."

Unless a city is willfully violating the AZ statutes (like the City of VB was not enforcing Fed law) they have nothing to worry about. And even if they are fined it's only after the filing of an action, it's not retroactive.

[quote]2. The crime rate in Arizona has been [URL="http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonline/Search/Crime/State/RunCrimeStatebyState.cfm"]steadily declining[/URL] even with increasing population of undocumented aliens. The question is what is the basis for claiming undocumented aliens increase are the source of crime in Arizona?[/quote]To start with, this:
A report issued by Maricopa County's Attorney General Andrew Thomas in October 2008 reveals the extent of Arizona's problem with crime committed by illegal immigrants.

In 2007, illegal immigrants accounted for:

10% of sex crimes convictions
11% of murders convictions
13% of stolen cars convictions
13% of aggravated assaults convictions
17% of those sentenced for violent crimes
19% of those sentenced for property crimes
20% of those sentenced for felony DUI
21% of crimes committed with weapons
34% of those sentenced for the manufacture, sale or transport of drugs
36% of those sentenced for kidnapping
44% of forgeries
50% of those sentenced for crimes related to "chop shops"
85% of false ID convictions
96% of smuggling convictions

Illegal immigrants make up 19 percent of those convicted of crimes in Maricopa County and 21 percent of those in county jails.

Illegal immigrants make up an estimated 9 percent of the county's population.

[quote]3. Lord Obama is certainly politicizing? He's a politician addressing a national issue, the issue of immigration, which last I checked is a federal issue. Anywho, this Arizona law is a political play itself and that's fine. Either side is entitled to convince the public their immigration vision is right for America. I don't know how he is misrepresenting the the AZ law. I would be happy to listen what part of what he said is objectionable. [/quote]See Post # 7. When the left can produce a number of "father's taking their kids for ice cream" that have been stopped and detained for no reason other than the color of their skin, I'll be glad to listen to your point. Until then this is political positioning, nothing more. I'm still waiting to see all the vast numbers of US citizens who have been wrongly prosecuted under the Patriot Act.

Will there be police officers who handle enforcement wrong, certainly. However I'm sure they will be in the vast minority. Every jurisdiction in AZ will be training it's officers on "by-the-book" enforcement techniques. I'm also sure police and localities in AZ will be very aware the national spotlight will be on.

[quote]4. Looking at comparison of [URL="http://www.azleg.gov/jlbc/10app/bh21.pdf"]Arizona's 2000 and 2010 budgets[/URL] I don't see how this law will fix their budget issues. They're merely going to shift their expenditure from social services to incarceration, law enforcement, going to court and deprotation (not even sure they're going to do that themselves).[/quote]This law may not fix the budget now, but it should help it from getting worse due to issues surrounding illegal immigration. It may have a minor effect in reducing social services, but I think it will actually reduce law enforcement/incarceration costs. If you're an illegal and you're in a state that is cracking down, chances are you take the path of least resistance and move on to another state where you can keep a lower profile or that has more lax enforcement.

[quote]5. There are many questions this law doesn't address...How are you going to determine if someone legal or illegal if they have a fake driver's license?[/quote]Can't, they have a fake ID that's good they'll get by.
[quote] How are you going to punish companies if all the documents they have for an undocumented worker are valid?[/quote]If the company did its "due diligence", unknown.
[quote]How are you going to punish someone for providing comfort to undocumented alien if they say I didn't ask (citizens are not required to ask someone if they are documented and that's not constitutional).[/quote]The words "knows and recklessly disregards" are part of the sections addressing this.

[quote]How are they going to deal with lawsuits from multiple fronts.[/quote]Same way they would deal with any other lawsuit. Unless there's some "cease and desist" order, they just put it on the docket and get to it when they get to it.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=Buster;696782]ILLINOIS - President Obama calls in riot squad against the will of local law enforcement to intimidate peaceful protesters guilty of saying "God Bless America"

[URL="http://biggovernment.com/jhoft/2010/04/28/team-obama-calls-out-swat-team-on-tea-party-patriots/"]» Team Obama Calls Out Swat Team on Tea Party Patriots! - Big Government[/URL]


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets see how he handles the illegals protesting for the "right" to be able to stay and break the law this weekend around the country.

[URL="http://www.contracostatimes.com/news/ci_14979741?source=rss&nclick_check=1"]Arizona illegal immigrant law spurs May Day protests - ContraCostaTimes.com[/URL]




Insane how suddenly the citizens of this nation have fewer "rights" than the illegal aliens.[/quote]

Buster its only the tea party and conservatives that ever act like that and its the reason they need to call out the swat team. The left would never allow people to act like the people you see at these rallies.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSQIYStgBYY]YouTube - Party of Hate? FreedomWorks responds.[/ame]

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=12thMan;696676]I think [B]we agree more than we disagree[/B] after reading your post. Good post.

It's just a complicated issue and regardless of how and when you approach it, it's going to be a political issue.[/quote]Thanks, and I think on just about every issue that's definitely the case. It sure would be nice if the folks we all pay to get this thing right could figure it out. :)

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

SS33 with the victory. Outstanding rebuttal.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;696778]TTE's posts may be gruff, or rough, at times, but he expresses his sentiments, and I don't think they are as far afield as you make it sound. Of course on immigration I don't agree with the position he takes, but it's valid to say that Mexican drug cartels have destroyed Mexico and force the immigration up here. Mexico has lots of resources, and obviously a segment of the population that is hard working who end up coming here because we offer stability and an opportunity for a better life in theory.

TTE has a lot of ideas that reflect back to the better parts of our Constitution, but that have gotten lost by the political correctness of the United States media.[B] As for how he expresses himself, well, I don't think every member of the Continental Congress spoke King's English[/B].
[/quote]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I find the highlighted hilarious. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I dont agree with most things TTE says, but he has non-emotional rational behind it and you have to respect that. Plus I have never seen him attack someone as mredskins did for expressing his opinion (maybe im wrong, but I cant recall anything?). [/FONT][/COLOR]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=black]Also if you click on User CP on the top left of the screen and scroll down to Settings and Options and click Edit Ignore List you can put his name in and then you dont have to see their posts or opinions. You can do this with everyone but a moderator........[/COLOR][/FONT]

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

Alright maybe I can be overzealous but I hate dope. To me the illegal alien and drug problem is the same thing. The drugs and illegals go up and the money and guns go down.

I've watched my friends, neighbors, beautiful women, good people turn into strait animals because of heroin, cocaine, and meth. It's coming into the US on the backs of illegal alien drug mules. And they have the nerve to talk about their rights! We have a right to not have our communities poisioned with dope. Two years ago I put one of my only friends in the ground because of heroin. His body was so destroyed from hepatitis that we couldn't even have an open casket.

So if some politician or one of you wants to imply that I'm xenophobic for being against the illegal aliens then so be it.

Use your common sense. The Arizona police and Border Patrol are out gunned ten to one and fighting a losing battle against the cartels. If you think that they have the time and resources to hassle every Mexican for papers, then you're not dealing with the reality on the ground. Remember Ramos And Campeon? I guess they were prejudice against their own race? They got thrown in jail for shooting a drug mule in the ass. If you ask me, they should've shot the SOB in the head and been given medals.

Don't believe the Republican Democrat story-book BS. Their campaigns are funded by the banks and corporations who profit from the illegals and drugs. This isn't about race. That's just a tactic they use to divide the populace so we'll be blind against what they're doing.

I forget the article but I believe the state dept said that Pakistan and Mexico were in the highest danger of falling and being a threat to our Republic. This country's insatiable drug habit is creating a Narco-terrorist state on our border. Mexico could be a paradise for not only their own people, but everyone else too. Yet I read y'alls post about profiling? What? Good people are dying from needles, bullets, and torture.

Answer me this. Why is it that we are on the Korean border protecting Koreans from . . . Koreans? We should be protecting our own border from this scourge of dope that's killing our children. I saw a kid the other day selling hocked DVDs for a fix. I could see it on his face, strait diesel. What a waste. He could've been a doctor.

Yeah, so maybe I am bombastic and full of shit. So be it. I've watched too many friends die. If you care about Mexicans, then fight the system that exploits them and fuck heroin. I'm out!

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=GMScud;696808]SS33 with the victory. Outstanding rebuttal.[/quote]

LOL... Victory? Really? With a post that contains nuggets like "this law [B]may not[/B] fix the budget now," "will there be police officers who handle enforcement wrong, [B]certainly[/B]," "[B]Can't[/B], they have a fake ID that's good they'll get by," and my favorite "[B]unknown[/B]?"

I protest!

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=saden1;696844]LOL... Victory? Really? With a post that contains nuggets like "this law [B]may not[/B] fix the budget now," "will there be police officers who handle enforcement wrong, [B]certainly[/B]," "[B]Can't[/B], they have a fake ID that's good they'll get by," and my favorite "unknown?"

I protest![/quote]

Haha. I was just trying to ruffle your feathers. :)

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;696798]This point is a huge reach. The sanctuary cities are only liable in the following cases:

"[B]implements a policy or practice that limits or restricts the enforcement of federal immigration laws to less than the full extent permitted by federal law. [/B]If there is a judicial finding that an entity has violated this section, the court shall order that the entity pay a civil penalty of not less than one thousand dollars and not more than five thousand dollars for each day that the policy has remained in effect after the filing of an action pursuant to this subsection."

Unless a city is willfully violating the AZ statutes (like the City of VB was not enforcing Fed law) they have nothing to worry about. And even if they are fined it's only after the filing of an action, it's not retroactive.[/quote]

My point was who pays the civil penalty? Now criminal penalty would do the trick if AZ really wanted to forces cities/localities to act. Is there provisions in the law that cuts off funding for cities and localities? I can easily tell you that all cities and localities will have to do to get out of having to enforce the law is to say "we don't have enough resources."

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;696798]
To start with, this:
A report issued by Maricopa County's Attorney General Andrew Thomas in October 2008 reveals the extent of Arizona's problem with crime committed by illegal immigrants.

In 2007, illegal immigrants accounted for:

10% of sex crimes convictions
11% of murders convictions
13% of stolen cars convictions
13% of aggravated assaults convictions
17% of those sentenced for violent crimes
19% of those sentenced for property crimes
20% of those sentenced for felony DUI
21% of crimes committed with weapons
34% of those sentenced for the manufacture, sale or transport of drugs
36% of those sentenced for kidnapping
44% of forgeries
50% of those sentenced for crimes related to "chop shops"
[B]85% of false ID convictions
96% of smuggling convictions[/B]
[^^ dohhh :doh:]

Illegal immigrants make up 19 percent of those convicted of crimes in Maricopa County and 21 percent of those in county jails.

Illegal immigrants make up an estimated 9 percent of the county's population.
[/quote]

You're telling me even Sheriff Joe has been ineffective? How is this law going to help these counties? Or is the plan that they simply go away? Even the criminals? The poor guy standing in front of Home Depot will dip-set but not sure about the guy at the chop-shop.

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;696798]See Post # 7. When the left can produce a number of "father's taking their kids for ice cream" that have been stopped and detained for no reason other than the color of their skin, I'll be glad to listen to your point. Until then this is political positioning, nothing more. I'm still waiting to see all the vast numbers of US citizens who have been wrongly prosecuted under the Patriot Act.

Will there be police officers who handle enforcement wrong, certainly. However I'm sure they will be in the vast minority. Every jurisdiction in AZ will be training it's officers on "by-the-book" enforcement techniques. I'm also sure police and localities in AZ will be very aware the national spotlight will be on.
[/quote]

The problem with the Patriot Act is spying on US Citizens...the problem with the Arizona law is racial profiling even if the law does not allow for profiling. These are legitimate objections of a freedom-liberty-america loving citizens. If you're brown looking best not jay-walk to the ice-cream truck with your daughter. BTW, does the new law provide for more training? Are there funding provisions in it?

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;696798]This law may not fix the budget now, but it should help it from getting worse due to issues surrounding illegal immigration. It may have a minor effect in reducing social services, but I think it will actually reduce law enforcement/incarceration costs. If you're an illegal and you're in a state that is cracking down, chances are you take the path of least resistance and move on to another state where you can keep a lower profile or that has more lax enforcement.
[/quote]

You're a business man, what's the cost of incarceration vs issues surrounding illegal immigration Arizona? I guess we have to do the math to know the true...either that or wait a few years. Alas, Arizona doesn't have a prayer in court (BTW, if anyone wants to take that bet I'll be happy to).

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;696798]Can't, they have a fake ID that's good they'll get by.
If the company did its "due diligence", unknown.
The words "knows and recklessly disregards" are part of the sections addressing this.
[/quote]

What does due diligence mean? Check if their name comes up when you do a database search for it? Good luck proving "knows and recklessly disregards."

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;696798]
Same way they would deal with any other lawsuit. Unless there's some "cease and desist" order, they just put it on the docket and get to it when they get to it.[/quote]

It sounds easy.




Anywho, I know you guys really dislike these illegals but don't lose sight what is and isn't a responsible and effective policy.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=saden1;696844]LOL... Victory? Really? With a post that contains nuggets like "this law [B]may not[/B] fix the budget now," "will there be police officers who handle enforcement wrong, [B]certainly[/B]," "[B]Can't[/B], they have a fake ID that's good they'll get by," and my favorite "unknown?"

I protest![/quote]Check the replay, the shot was off before the buzzer! :woot:

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=saden1;696853]My point was who pays the civil penalty? Now criminal penalty would do the trick if AZ really wanted to forces cities/localities to act. Is there provisions in the law that cuts off funding for cities and localities? I can easily tell you that all cities and localities will have to do to get out of having to enforce the law is to say "we don't have enough resources."[/quote]Unless they don't have telephone/Internet service they'll have no excuse. There are also plenty of grants from the state of AZ and Fed that focus on security/emergency services. That won't fly.

If a judgement is levied against a locality you can be 100% sure the state of AZ will withhold funding in the next fiscal year to repay any fines levied. Without going back to look at where the penalties/fines go, I believe it's into a state fund to police gang and illegal immigration activity. Simple transfer of funds at the state level, and the locality would never even see the money.

[quote]You're telling me even Sheriff Joe has been ineffective? How is this law going to help these counties? Or is the plan that they simply go away? Even the criminals? The poor guy standing in front of Home Depot will dip-set but not sure about the guy at the chop-shop.[/quote]If those numbers are fairly constant throughout the state and you can reduce them by even 30%, that's a huge net gain for the state and localities.

[quote]The problem with the Patriot Act is spying on US Citizens...the problem with the Arizona law is racial profiling even if the law does not allow for profiling. These are legitimate objections of a freedom-liberty-america loving citizens. If you're brown looking best not jay-walk to the ice-cream truck with your daughter. BTW, does the new law provide for more training? Are there funding provisions in it?[/quote]Didn't see any provisions for training funds in the statute, however as I mentioned above there are many programs at state and Federal level that provide grants particularly for law enforcement activities. I'm also sure these localities will make the funding available for proper training (which I'm sure wouldn't be expensive anyway) to make sure they're not going to run afoul of the state or some left-wing legal group looking to score (ACLU, etc.)

[quote]You're a business man, what's the cost of incarceration vs issues surrounding illegal immigration Arizona? I guess we have to do the math to know the true...[B]either that or wait a few years[/B]. Alas, Arizona doesn't have a prayer in court (BTW, if anyone wants to take that bet I'll be happy to).[/quote]That will be the true barometer, anything else is speculation. However my speculation is that a reduction in crime and reduced stress on state/city services would amount to a net gain vs. short term incarceration pending deportation by ICE.

[quote]What does due diligence mean? Check if their name comes up when you do a database search for it? Good luck proving "knows and recklessly disregards."[/quote]From a company standpoint, I would say as long as the company made sure to verify the required documents for employment (Standard I-9 stuff) and kept records of the documents on file, that would show due diligence IMO.

"Knows and recklessly disregards" is a gray area, but the intent is to target organizations or individuals who have a track record of sheltering/transporting illegals for profit, rather than an individual who gave someone some food and water that looked needy.

[quote]Anywho, I know you guys really dislike these illegals but don't lose sight what is and isn't a responsible and effective policy.[/quote]Anywho, I have no dislike for people who are simply coming to America to try to work hard and make a better life for themselves and their families. Unfortunately we can't be all things to all people and public services come at a cost. We have serious issues here at home (struggling economy, national debt crisis, state budget issues, Medicare & SS insolvency looming, double digit unemployment in many places) and the illegal immigrant situation is only making things worse.

I do however have a major problem with Mexican nationals who profit from human smuggling, drug cartels, illegal thugs (primarily Mexican) who commit serious crimes including murder, and illegals that come to abuse/take advantage of the Federal and state social services. This law is designed to slow/stop this type of behavior. The person who sneaks into the U.S. illegally is still breaking U.S. law, but will likely not be affected by this law unless they are caught in some sort of employer-based sting, they break the law, or attempt to access a government service to which they aren't (and shouldn't be) entitled.

And at the end of the day, all these statutes do is [B]re-enforce existing law[/B].

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

wow, I would say I am surprised at people that are against this law, but I'm not. This is a quality law that should greatly help with the BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS we end up spending on illegal aliens.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

I don't have a problem w/ this law. It's out of control and the Arizona govt is trying to get a hold of the problem. It's sucks for the people that are here legally cause there is a chance that they're going to get harrrassed. But when you have 1,000 hispanics a day trying to border hop then strict laws need to be enforced. None of the people that make it here pay taxes and some commit crimes. Enough is enough.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

why are the laws not enforced by the federal govt?the citizens of this country are not in control anymore

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

SS33 I think this stat is wrong.

85% of false ID convictions

and should probably read:


85% of false ID convictions are college students

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

I'm so damn sick of the illegal immigration debate.

Just make it easier to become a citizen. Don't make people have to wait so long and jump through so many hoops that it drives people to cross the border illegally.

The people who are so up in arms about illegals always say they are fine with immigrants who want to come here for a better life. Fine. Then don't make it so difficult to become a citizen. Then there will be less illegal immigration.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=Beemnseven;697099]I'm so damn sick of the illegal immigration debate.

Just make it easier to become a citizen. Don't make people have to wait so long and jump through so many hoops that it drives people to cross the border illegally.

The people who are so up in arms about illegals always say they are fine with immigrants who want to come here for a better life. Fine. Then don't make it so difficult to become a citizen. Then there will be less illegal immigration.[/quote]

You and me...same page

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=Beemnseven;697099]I'm so damn sick of the illegal immigration debate.

Just make it easier to become a citizen. Don't make people have to wait so long and jump through so many hoops that it drives people to cross the border illegally.

The people who are so up in arms about illegals always say they are fine with immigrants who want to come here for a better life. Fine. Then don't make it so difficult to become a citizen. Then there will be less illegal immigration.[/quote]

So they can just walk in become a citizen then the next month file for food stamps, goverment housing, etc... There is a reason why you cannot just go to the local DMV and become a citizen. Our dept would tripple if we just let anyone become a citizen by just filling out a little paper work.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=firstdown;697047]SS33 I think this stat is wrong.

85% of false ID convictions

and should probably read:


[B]85% of false ID convictions are college students[/B][/quote]and high school kids LOL

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=firstdown;697103]So they can just walk in become a citizen then the next month file for food stamps, goverment housing, etc... There is a reason why you cannot just go to the local DMV and become a citizen. Our dept would tripple if we just let anyone become a citizen by just filling out a little paper work.[/quote]
I agree, there's got to be control. A girl that used to work for me, good family, from Macedonia. They waited from the time their mother was pregnant with her until she was over 8 to be able to come here. They hold jobs and are productive to society. It would have been nice had they not had to wait so long, but they did. I think that we'll still have a ton of people entering along our borders no matter what they do. Who knows if it will really change things. Unemployment will be huge, there will still be plenty of jobs not being taxed, etc.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=jsarno;696887]wow, I would say I am surprised at people that are against this law, but I'm not. This is a quality law that should greatly help with the BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS we end up spending on illegal aliens.[/quote]

I'm against it.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=tryfuhl;697112]I agree, there's got to be control. A girl that used to work for me, good family, from Macedonia. They waited from the time their mother was pregnant with her until she was over 8 to be able to come here. They hold jobs and are productive to society. It would have been nice had they not had to wait so long, but they did. I think that we'll still have a ton of people entering along our borders no matter what they do. Who knows if it will really change things. Unemployment will be huge, there will still be plenty of jobs not being taxed, etc.[/quote]

What if I told them to go back to Macedonia, and stop taking away jobs that Amercians can't get and need.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=firstdown;697103]So they can just walk in become a citizen then the next month file for food stamps, goverment housing, etc... There is a reason why you cannot just go to the local DMV and become a citizen. Our dept would tripple if we just let anyone become a citizen by just filling out a little paper work.[/quote]

Well, according to the naysayers they already get the benefits just but without paying taxes, so it could possibly be a wash.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=Beemnseven;697099]I'm so damn sick of the illegal immigration debate.

Just make it easier to become a citizen. Don't make people have to wait so long and jump through so many hoops that it drives people to cross the border illegally.

The people who are so up in arms about illegals always say they are fine with immigrants who want to come here for a better life. Fine. Then don't make it so difficult to become a citizen. Then there will be less illegal immigration.[/quote]


I agree as well. The majority are hard workers and do jobs us natural born Americans don't want. More people equals more jobs.