Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=saden1;697662]One would think they'd have emergency capping system at the bottom of the sea. I guess simply sticking in a drill is cheaper.[/quote]

If what I read was correct they have two shut off valves. One failed which shuts off the oil automatically and the other they cannot reach because the structured collasped around the valve. Sounds like they need 4 of them so two will shut off automatically and the others as a back up.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=firstdown;697680]If what I read was correct they have two shut off valves. One failed which shuts off the oil automatically and the other they cannot reach because the structured collasped around the valve. Sounds like they need 4 of them so two will shut off automatically and the others as a back up.[/quote]Plus they need another tap into the reserve that can be activated in the event of a catastrophic failure at the main drill site.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;697713]Plus they need another tap into the reserve that can be activated in the event of a catastrophic failure at the main drill site.[/quote]

They need to buy the oil we need. Those offshore drills only provide enough oil for one fifth of our consumption for 5 years. We can never get nature back. But hey who cares as long as we get some of that money. Can't let Russia and Arabs control the oil supply of the World. Only one problem though. If god wanted us to be an oil superpower he would have given us oil within our reach. Sometimes people must accept limitations and be humble. Certain situations we must do that. There is a reason why PRIDE is a sin.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;697729]They need to buy the oil we need. Those offshore drills only provide enough oil for one fifth of our consumption for 5 years. We can never get nature back. But hey who cares as long as we get some of that money. Can't let Russia and Arabs control the oil supply of the World. Only one problem though. If god wanted us to be an oil superpower he would have given us oil within our reach. Sometimes people must accept limitations and be humble. Certain situations we must do that. There is a reason why PRIDE is a sin.[/quote]
You do realize that other nations are drilling oil in the golf? So even if we stopped all drilling it would just be another nation drilling the oil. Either way nature is still at risk.

[url=http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/09/news/economy/oil_cuba/index.htm]China, India, Cuba in Gulf oil partnership - May. 9, 2006[/url]

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=firstdown;697752]You do realize that other nations are drilling oil in the golf? So even if we stopped all drilling it would just be another nation drilling the oil. Either way nature is still at risk.

[url=http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/09/news/economy/oil_cuba/index.htm]China, India, Cuba in Gulf oil partnership - May. 9, 2006[/url][/quote]

So if other nations jump off a bridge are we gonna jump off the bridge too?

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;697757]So if other nations jump off a bridge are we gonna jump off the bridge too?[/quote]
You ignored the point. If we stopped drilling the oil rigs will keep pumping and the threat is still there. So we loose out and then have to buy the oil from them even though our coast is still at the same risk. Now if you say stop everyone from drilling oil in the Gulf then thats a different subjet but I don't think Cuba will go for that.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=firstdown;697772]You ignored the point. If we stopped drilling the oil rigs will keep pumping and the threat is still there. So we loose out and then have to buy the oil from them even though our coast is still at the same risk. Now if you say stop everyone from drilling oil in the Gulf then thats a different subjet but I don't think Cuba will go for that.[/quote]

Well Cuba might go for that? Have we asked them?

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;697782]Well Cuba might go for that? Have we asked them?[/quote]

Yes I talked to them last night before I went to bed. They told me to tell the administration to go F*&% off. China then called and told me I better not screw with Cuba because that was their cash cow.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

Ok, I'm bad. We are watching this unfold and I just went out and purchased another SUV. I know but I just could not turn down this deal. The good news is this one does get better MPG then the one I'm replacing and the other one we own. My wife wanted to switch cars and drive this one but the other SUV we have is really bad on gas. I stood firm and told her no for the environment. Well actually thats not the truth its more to save my wallet and the extra gas cost to drive the other SUV. I just have a hard time down sizing and the other SUV we have to have to trailer the boat. I'll try better on our next car I promise. Maybe if gas really jumps I'll sell this one and make a few grand and down size. Ok that probably won't happen either.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=saden1;697015]Yeah, BP should foot the entire cleanup bill. Politically it just keeps getting better for dems. This should give them cover in [B]axing coast drilling....hopefully they'll use it[/B].[/quote]

So you LIKE being at the mercy of foreign countries who hate us for our oil? You LIKE paying more than you should? :doh:

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=GMScud;697298]Some idiots at BP made a catastrophic mistake and people immediately want to start playing the political blame game. Pathetic. I'm sure this democratic administration is doing just as much as any republican administration would.

This is an ecological and economic disaster for the gulf areas down there. The focus should be on wildlife, cleanup,and the families/jobs/businesses left in ruin as a result. The fact that people are politicizing this is further proof of how irreparably partisan and broken our government has become.

Get a grip.[/quote]

I agree. It's no different than a storm happening naturally and all of a sudden, it's the President's fault because he hates black people. :doh:

The real focus should be on fixing the situation. Of course, when the politicians screw up...they should still be hammered for it, but lets not forget we need to do something about it.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

For those interested in facts:

[URL]http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/RL33705_20090827.pdf[/URL]

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=Buster;697823]So you LIKE being at the mercy of foreign countries who hate us for our oil? You LIKE paying more than you should? :doh:[/quote]

Guilty on all counts...what can I say? I like making it rain, if Iran collects a few bills it ain't nuffin' but pocket change. Hootie-hoo!

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=saden1;697868]Guilty on all counts...what can I say? I like making it rain, if Iran collects a few bills it ain't nuffin' but pocket change. Hootie-hoo![/quote]Brit Hume reported on Fox tonight that the percentage of oil spills from tankers is much higher than from oil rigs. I haven't verified this info.

Also, it appears MMS has a hand in this as well (NY Times actually came through on this one, likely because Bush was in ofice at the time).

[URL]http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/11/washington/11royalty.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=all[/URL]


Good info from WSJ on Acoustic Control that was lacking on this rig, oil company (didn't put it in for $ 500K) and MMS (didn't require it because regulators coked/sexed up w/oil co. folks) screwed the pooch on this.

[URL="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704423504575212031417936798.html"]Leaking Oil Well Lacked Safeguard Device - WSJ.com[/URL]

I think there's going to be plenty of blame to go around, but simply keeping the status quo on oil imports isn't the answer here. Better planning, better safety regulations and competent regulatory enforcement seem like the answer.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=Mattyk;697632]I was in Clearwater Beach a few weeks ago, man if those beaches end up ruined I'm going to be seriously bummed. Such a nice area.[/quote]

I'm getting married in Siesta Key in a month, just about 60 miles south of Clearwater. If there's oil all over the place, I'll be monumentally bummed. However I read that the east coast of Florida is actually at a bigger risk than the west coast. The oil will run into the gulf stream current before it can reach that part of the Florida gulf coast, and it will get pulled around the tip of the state, reaching the Northeast coast.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=Buster;697824]I agree. It's no different than a storm happening naturally and all of a sudden, it's the President's fault because he hates black people. :doh:

The real focus should be on fixing the situation. Of course, when the politicians screw up...they should still be hammered for it, but lets not forget we need to do something about it.[/quote]

You tryna down play katrina? yeah the president flying over in a plane while a bunch of black people waist deep in water. 4 days and no clean fresh water. These are American citizens. Where were the helicopters and navy? these fools on the news crying looting. I mean what was Walmart planning to do with that flooded merchandise. Dry it off and sell it? Of course I know some people don't know much about the murders of individuals escaping New Orleans. Shooting people on sight. No investigation, know any survivors? Get the real story. The storm wasn't bush's fault but the appointing of "joke" Brown a horse breeder as the head of FEMA showed he took the lives of American people as a joke. The emails showed how this dude was more worried about how he looked on TV. Of course this is like Katrina I mean what's 1500 lives they only from the 9th ward, anyway.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;697886]You tryna down play katrina? yeah the president flying over in a plane while a bunch of black people waist deep in water. 4 days and no clean fresh water. These are American citizens. Where were the helicopters and navy? these fools on the news crying looting. I mean what was Walmart planning to do with that flooded merchandise. Dry it off and sell it? Of course I know some people don't know much about the murders of individuals escaping New Orleans. Shooting people on sight. No investigation, know any survivors? Get the real story. The storm wasn't bush's fault but the appointing of "joke" Brown a horse breeder as the head of FEMA showed he took the lives of American people as a joke. The emails showed how this dude was more worried about how he looked on TV. Of course this is like Katrina I mean what's 1500 lives they only from the 9th ward, anyway.[/quote]

Oh my god, here we go. The Bush Admin's response was slower than it should have been, but also keep in mind it was a disaster of a nature the country had never seen. How exactly to react wasn't totally evident right away.

To maintain that the slow response was because a lot of the victims were black is SOOO stupid. Don't stoop to the level of that gigantic moron (and racist) Kanye West. You're better than that. There were 10's of thousands of white people suffering from the effects Katrina as well.

The Bush Administration could definitely have done a better job in their response to Katrina, but it had nothing to do with race. Does Bush also hate all the white and hispanic folks who were devastated by that disaster?

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;697872]Brit Hume reported on Fox tonight that the percentage of oil spills from tankers is much higher than from oil rigs. I haven't verified this info.

Also, it appears MMS has a hand in this as well (NY Times actually came through on this one, likely because Bush was in ofice at the time).

[URL]http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/11/washington/11royalty.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=all[/URL]


Good info from WSJ on Acoustic Control that was lacking on this rig, oil company (didn't put it in for $ 500K) and MMS (didn't require it because regulators coked/sexed up w/oil co. folks) screwed the pooch on this.

[URL="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704423504575212031417936798.html"]Leaking Oil Well Lacked Safeguard Device - WSJ.com[/URL]

I think there's going to be plenty of blame to go around, but simply keeping the status quo on oil imports isn't the answer here. Better planning, better safety regulations and competent regulatory enforcement seem like the answer.[/quote]

You do know all oil is traded on commodity markets? You buying oil, all oil is on this market. You pump more oil Iran is still making the same amount of money. Only thing pumping more can do is help with the price. BP is not an American entity it is a multinational corporation with loyalty only to profit. Where is their headquarters again? Another thing, being jealous of Arabs and Persians having alot of oil reserves is stupid. Their deposits are far superior, more accessible, and of far better quality. It's kinda like speed, you can't teach speed and you can't teach natural resources. The answer is to use our superior technology and over throw their advantage. We must remember that strategy has never been the strength of the right wing anyway(exhibit A black president, exhibit b civil rights movement). Thanks tea party.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;697863]For those interested in facts:

[URL]http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/RL33705_20090827.pdf[/URL][/quote]

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=GMScud;697892]Oh my god, here we go. The Bush Admin's response was slower than it should have been, but also keep in mind it was a disaster of a nature the country had never seen. How exactly to react wasn't totally evident right away.

To maintain that the slow response was because a lot of the victims were black is SOOO stupid. Don't stoop to the level of that gigantic moron (and racist) Kanye West. You're better than that. There were 10's of thousands of white people suffering from the effects Katrina as well.

The Bush Administration could definitely have done a better job in their response to Katrina, but it had nothing to do with race. Does Bush also hate all the white and hispanic folks who were devastated by that disaster?[/quote]

I don't think Bush is racist. I think bush mistaken more money for more ability. He miss delegated that responsibility. Where was the urgency i mean days after. No one got mad til day 4. Bush screwed up on Katrina. Lives are being lost all ahnds on deck right? Anyway, Kayne West is a clown and may be gay but he is not a racist. Not able to blame Obama and not getting bush off the hook with this one. Just follow Rush and pretend the ocean will take care of itslef.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=firstdown;697794]Yes I talked to them last night before I went to bed. They told me to tell the administration to go F*&% off. China then called and told me I better not screw with Cuba because that was their cash cow.[/quote]

China?!! I thought the U.S. was their cash cow.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=firstdown;697822]Ok, I'm bad. We are watching this unfold and I just went out and purchased another SUV. I know but I just could not turn down this deal. The good news is this one does get better MPG then the one I'm replacing and the other one we own. My wife wanted to switch cars and drive this one but the other SUV we have is really bad on gas. I stood firm and told her no for the environment. Well actually thats not the truth its more to save my wallet and the extra gas cost to drive the other SUV. I just have a hard time down sizing and the other SUV we have to have to trailer the boat. I'll try better on our next car I promise. Maybe if gas really jumps I'll sell this one and make a few grand and down size. Ok that probably won't happen either.[/quote]

LOL!!! I'll make sure to tell Netanyahu the next time Hezbollah drop 30,000 missiles on their country.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;697896]I don't think Bush is racist. I think bush mistaken more money for more ability. He miss delegated that responsibility. Where was the urgency i mean days after. No one got mad til day 4. Bush screwed up on Katrina. Lives are being lost all ahnds on deck right? Anyway, Kayne West is a clown and may be gay but he is not a racist. [B]Not able to blame Obama and not getting bush off the hook with this one. Just follow Rush and pretend the ocean will take care of itslef[/B].[/quote]

???? Nonsensical.

I'm not blaming Obama for anything related to this tragedy, however that oil was spewing for a few days before his Administration was all over it. And I also never said Bush deserved to be off the hook for his slow response to Katrina. Further, despite being a Republican, I generally don't care for Rush.

You didn't straight call Bush a racist, but you went on a rant about his slow response and mentioned black people in waist deep water, saying hey who really cares "because they from the ninth ward." I mean, let's be honest, you're directly implying just what Kanye said- that George Bush doesn't care about black people. I think that's just plain dumb.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;697886]You tryna down play katrina? yeah the president flying over in a plane while a bunch of black people waist deep in water. 4 days and no clean fresh water. These are American citizens. Where were the helicopters and navy? these fools on the news crying looting. I mean what was Walmart planning to do with that flooded merchandise. Dry it off and sell it? Of course I know some people don't know much about the murders of individuals escaping New Orleans. Shooting people on sight. No investigation, know any survivors? Get the real story. The storm wasn't bush's fault but the appointing of "joke" Brown a horse breeder as the head of FEMA showed he took the lives of American people as a joke. The emails showed how this dude was more worried about how he looked on TV. Of course this is like Katrina I mean what's 1500 lives they only from the 9th ward, anyway.[/quote]As usual, you may want to get your facts straight. The finger of blame needs to be pointed a lot harder at Ray Nagin and Kathleen Blanco than at Bush.

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_government_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina"]Criticism of government response to Hurricane Katrina - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]

As far as the "shoot on sight" order, that came from Gov. Blanco (D) to the LA National Guard, not from President Bush.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=GMScud;697923]???? Nonsensical.

I'm not blaming Obama for anything related to this tragedy, however that oil was spewing for a few days before his Administration was all over it. And I also never said Bush deserved to be off the hook for his slow response to Katrina. Further, despite being a Republican, I generally don't care for Rush.

You didn't straight call Bush a racist, but you went on a rant about his slow response and mentioned black people in waist deep water, saying hey who really cares "because they from the ninth ward." I mean, let's be honest, you're directly implying just what Kanye said- that George Bush doesn't care about black people. I think that's just plain dumb.[/quote]

i was responding to your kanye west quote u said black people first i just reiterated.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;697927]As usual, you may want to get your facts straight. The finger of blame needs to be pointed a lot harder at Ray Nagin and Kathleen Blanco than at Bush.

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_government_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina"]Criticism of government response to Hurricane Katrina - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]

As far as the "shoot on sight" order, that came from Gov. Blanco (D) to the LA National Guard, not from President Bush.[/quote]

I was speaking of the local yocals some disappeared didn't drown.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;697927]As usual, you may want to get your facts straight. The finger of blame needs to be pointed a lot harder at Ray Nagin and Kathleen Blanco than at Bush.

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_government_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina"]Criticism of government response to Hurricane Katrina - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]

As far as the "shoot on sight" order, that came from Gov. Blanco (D) to the LA National Guard, not from President Bush.[/quote]

Anyway let's bury Katrina.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;697938]i was responding to your kanye west quote u said black people first i just reiterated.[/quote]


Huh? Your rant about the ninth ward and black people waist deep in water was before I ever said a word about black people and Kanye West.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;697940]Anyway let's bury Katrina.[/quote]

Convenient of you to say that now, now that SS33 just shot a hole the size of a basketball through your argument.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=GMScud;697944]Convenient of you to say that now, now that SS33 just shot a hole the size of a basketball through your argument.[/quote]

Not really, but he can have that victory. what can a mayorv do? The governor was wrong for that. Bush thought his people had it but they didn't, I know it hurt his feelings.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

Anyhow, as far as assessing blame, look no further than BP. Read this article. My goodness did they shit the bed:

[url=http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/04/us/04spill.html?pagewanted=1]On Defensive, BP Readies Dome to Contain Spill - NYTimes.com[/url]

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=GMScud;697948]Anyhow, as far as assessing blame, look no further than BP. Read this article. My goodness did they shit the bed:

[url=http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/04/us/04spill.html?pagewanted=1]On Defensive, BP Readies Dome to Contain Spill - NYTimes.com[/url][/quote]

That stuff must be stopped,

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;697893]You do know all oil is traded on commodity markets? You buying oil, all oil is on this market. You pump more oil Iran is still making the same amount of money. Only thing pumping more can do is help with the price. BP is not an American entity it is a multinational corporation with loyalty only to profit. Where is their headquarters again? Another thing, being jealous of Arabs and Persians having alot of oil reserves is stupid. Their deposits are far superior, more accessible, and of far better quality. It's kinda like speed, you can't teach speed and you can't teach natural resources. The answer is to use our superior technology and over throw their advantage. We must remember that strategy has never been the strength of the right wing anyway(exhibit A black president, exhibit b civil rights movement). Thanks tea party.[/quote]More pesky facts:
- The oil markets are far more complex than you think.
- The U.S. does not import [B]any[/B] Iranian oil. So you're right on one point whether we pump or not Iran is making the same amount (Saudi Arabia is another story).
- Oil companies, whether U.S. or foreign, pay royalties of 12-16% to the Dept. of Interior - Minerals Mgmt Service for oil pumped from U.S. territory.
- Mid East oil is not more accessible, nor is it superior or of better quality for what we need here at our refineries. That's why only approx 30% of our imports come from there. We rely on Canada, Mexico and other sources in the Western Hemisphere for about 50% of our imports.
- You can teach/train speed.

- Reagan used our technological superiority and the economic superiority of the free market to destroy one of the greatest threats to human rights/freedom the world has seen, the USSR. Last time I checked Reagan was "right-wing".
- Bush senior quickly halted and beat back the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait without destabilizing the region and allowing the mass destruction of oil reserves using our technological superiority.
- Bush's Administration prevented any major terrorist attacks post-9/11 using our technical superiority.

I'm also quite tired of the Republicans/right-wing are racist remarks (Bill Maher) and insinuations (you). I couldn't care less (and I'm sure the VAST majority of Republicans/right-wing people agree) if our President is black, white, hispanic, asian, or female, as long as he/she is doing what's best for the national interest. Obama's policies are what I (and the VRWC) disagree with, not the color of his skin. When people defending the President's or the left-wing policies can't provide a logical argument or reasoned position to back up their positions and have to resort to calling the opponents racists, they've lost the debate IMO.

Another fact: H.R.7152 (Civil Rights Act of 1964) passed the House on Feb. 10, 1964. Of the 420 members who voted, 290 supported the civil rights bill and 130 opposed it. Republicans favored the bill 138 to 34; Democrats supported it 152-96. [B]Republicans supported it in higher proportions than Democrats.[/B] Even though those Democrats were Southern segregationists, [B]without Republicans the bill would have failed.[/B] Republicans were the other much-needed leg of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100505/ap_on_bi_ge/us_gulf_oil_spill;_ylt=AngaWR0qpOyLQ5MfBAnZ5TdH2ocA;_ylu=X3oDMTM2Y2hlZjhoBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwNTA1L3VzX2d1bGZfb2lsX3NwaWxsBGNjb2RlA21vc3Rwb3B1bGFyBGNwb3MDMgRwb3MDMgRzZWMDeW5fdG9wX3N0b3JpZXMEc2xrA2RvbWV0b2NvbnRhaQ--]Giant dome for Gulf oil leak is next best solution - Yahoo! News[/url]

I think we all are hoping this dome plan works. Scary that after running all the models and calculations they still don't know whether it will :(

[quote]"We don't know for sure" whether the equipment will work, said BP spokesman Bill Salvin. "What we do know is that we have done extensive engineering and modeling and we believe this gives us the best chance to contain the oil, and that's very important to us."[/quote]

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[url=http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN0413130920100504?type=marketsNews]Oil from Gulf spill may even reach Miami-scientist | Reuters[/url]

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

It's just depressing to think about the disastrous environmental impact this is going to have.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

A little bit of good news

[url=http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/06/us/06spill.html]BP Says One Oil Leak of Three Is Shut Off - NYTimes.com[/url]

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

Good video of the actual dome and a graphic of how it will be used to hopefully contain the spill.
[url=http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2010/05/06/explainer.oil.containment.cnn.html]Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com - Capturing the leaking oil[/url]

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

Hope that damn thing works

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[url=http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703338004575229864184350730.html?mod=WSJ_latestheadlines]BP Lowers Dome in Effort to Catch Oil - WSJ.com[/url]

What a depressing pic check out the oil kicked up in the wake of the boat

[IMG]http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OB-IK462_0506oi_F_20100506171642.jpg[/IMG]