Re: What do Big Ben and Lawrence Taylor have in common?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;699834]true, but none of us know the facts about anything don't witness directly with our own eyes. and taylor did admit to pretty much everything before finding out that the girl was 16. i dont see any reason to doubt the main points of the allegations.[/quote]

Do you have any contacts within the investigation or just going off of what's being reported in the media? As I and SS can tell you from experience in the media, believe none of what you read and half of what you see. The true FACTS rarely, if ever, emerge in the press in a high profile criminal investigation.

Re: What do Big Ben and Lawrence Taylor have in common?
 

[quote=SBXVII;699108]I will say that ignorance is not an excuse. LT is being charged with having sex with a juvenile under the age of 17 which is a class 3 Felony. Unless he can prove she had an ID saying she was older it will be hard for him to win his case.[/quote]

The burden of prof is on the state. It's not required of Taylor to prove he didn't know the girls age, the state has to be able to make a case that he did.

The girl obviously was not his neighbor, and I've never known a john to ask a prostitute for her birth certificate or prof of age. If he knowingly had sex with a minor that could be serious, but in this particular case it would have to be established that he actually knew the girls age and continued on his mission in disregard. The case has to be against the pimp.

Re: What do Big Ben and Lawrence Taylor have in common?
 

[quote=Mattyk;699845]You said:

[I]That, and being a scumbag. Regardless of whether Taylor thought the girl was 16 or 18 or 19, these disturbing facts remain - Taylor, a 51 year old married man paid to have sex with a prostitute whom he thought was 18ish and showed signs of being physically abused. Married +Cheating + Prostitute + Young girl + [B]Black eye[/B] = Scumbag.[/I][/quote]

i never said taylor gave her the black eye. as i've said a number of times, all sides in the issue agree that she had the black eye BEFORE visiting taylor. i merely said that his engaging in sexual conduct with someone who had obviously been abused is part of why he's a scumbag.

Re: What do Big Ben and Lawrence Taylor have in common?
 

[quote=Paintrain;699846]Do you have any contacts within the investigation or just going off of what's being reported in the media? As I and SS can tell you from experience in the media, believe none of what you read and half of what you see. The true FACTS rarely, if ever, emerge in the press in a high profile criminal investigation.[/quote]

again, this isnt a case where taylors camp and the victims camp are preaching two different stories. so there's no reason not to beleive the reports that we have thus far. i'm sure there's much more to it than we know, but the basic scenario of what transpired seems pretty clear.

Re: What do Big Ben and Lawrence Taylor have in common?
 

[quote=Longtimefan;699847]The burden of prof is on the state. It's not required of Taylor to prove he didn't know the girls age, the state has to be able to make a case that he did.

The girl obviously was not his neighbor, and I've never known a john to ask a prostitute for her birth certificate or prof of age. If he knowingly had sex with a minor that could be serious, but in this particular case it would have to be established that he actually knew the girls age and continued on his mission in disregard. The case has to be against the pimp.[/quote]

what are you talking about? both taylor and the girl agree that she told him she was 19. from the states perspective, its completely irrelevant whether taylor knew she was 16 or not. it might earn him some sympathy in the court of public opinion (from other scumbags), but it won't make a bit of difference in whether he's convicted of the crime. if he had sexual contact with her, he's guilty.

Re: What do Big Ben and Lawrence Taylor have in common?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;699362]That, and being a scumbag. Regardless of whether Taylor thought the girl was 16 or 18 or 19, these disturbing facts remain - Taylor, a 51 year old married man [B]paid to have sex with a prostitute whom he thought was 18ish [/B]and showed signs of being physically abused. Married +Cheating + Prostitute + Young girl + Black eye = Scumbag.

He should be thankful that a couple of years in prison, a ruined marriage, and a further damaged reputation is his "worst-case scenario." In my opinion, the man doesn't deserve the air he's breathing.[/quote]

All I'm saying is when you wrote this I don't believe any of this had been known to have been admitted to by LT. In fact, didn't his lawyer vehemently deny it? And, of course, that's not to say you should believe his lawyer. But there wasn't a reason not to.

Re: What do Big Ben and Lawrence Taylor have in common?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;699851][B]All I'm saying is when you wrote this I don't believe any of this had been known to have been admitted to by LT. [/B]In fact, didn't his lawyer vehemently deny it? And, of course, that's not to say you should believe his lawyer. But there wasn't a reason not to.[/quote]

well I guess thats the piece of information you're missing. LT admitted to pretty much everything when the story first broke. This is before he got a lawyer, as he was under the impression it was just a simple solicitation charge. after it came out that the girl was 16, he got a lawyer. the lawyer denied what LT had previously admitted to, but it may have to do with the actual nature of the contact between the LT and the girl.

Re: What do Big Ben and Lawrence Taylor have in common?
 

[quote=Longtimefan;699847]The burden of prof is on the state. It's not required of Taylor to prove he didn't know the girls age, the state has to be able to make a case that he did.

The girl obviously was not his neighbor, and I've never known a john to ask a prostitute for her birth certificate or prof of age. If he knowingly had sex with a minor that could be serious, but in this particular case it would have to be established that he actually knew the girls age and continued on his mission in disregard. The case has to be against the pimp.[/quote]

Actually in NY State Law, not knowing is not an affirmative defense. When the DA said that ignorance was not an excuse I thought that was strange, because I always thought it was. I looked online at the NY statutes, and it doesn't list "reasonable belief of the victims ability to consent" (another way to say ignorance that the victim was under age) as a defense. What LT knew or didn't know isn't going to make much difference.
With that said, I would be shocked if they don't agree to a much less serious charge like contributing to the delinquency of a minor or something, assuming LT cooperates and becomes a witness for the state against the pimp,

Re: What do Big Ben and Lawrence Taylor have in common?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;699860]Actually in NY State Law, not knowing is not an affirmative defense. When the DA said that ignorance was not an excuse I thought that was strange, because I always thought it was. I looked online at the NY statutes, and it doesn't list "reasonable belief of the victims ability to consent" (another way to say ignorance that the victim was under age) as a defense. What LT knew or didn't know isn't going to make much difference.
With that said, I would be shocked if they don't agree to a much less serious charge like contributing to the delinquency of a minor or something, assuming [B]LT cooperates and becomes a witness for the state against the pimp[/B],[/quote]

hopefully, LT would agree to be a state witness regardless, but i agree they could be inclined to work something out. then again, I could also see NY using LT's celebrity to make an example out of him. i guess it comes down to what the DA thinks would do the most good - getting a minor-trafficing pimp off the streets or sending a message that would hopefully curb the demand for prostitution to begin with. put another way, does the DA want to attack the supply or curb the demand? i wonder how long until the law&order episode comes out.

Re: What do Big Ben and Lawrence Taylor have in common?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;699860]Actually in NY State Law, not knowing is not an affirmative defense. When the DA said that ignorance was not an excuse I thought that was strange, because I always thought it was. I looked online at the NY statutes, and it doesn't list "reasonable belief of the victims ability to consent" (another way to say ignorance that the victim was under age) as a defense. What LT knew or didn't know isn't going to make much difference.
With that said, I would be shocked if they don't agree to a much less serious charge like contributing to the delinquency of a minor or something, assuming LT cooperates and becomes a witness for the state against the pimp,[/quote]

I appreciate you putting me wise with NY state laws regarding this type offense. I'm under the impression the state would have the burden since this was an arranged situation that involved patronizing prostitution, contrary to the normal boy meets girl situation. So much for ignorance of the law not being an excuse.

Re: What do Big Ben and Lawrence Taylor have in common?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;699864]hopefully, LT would agree to be a state witness regardless, but i agree they could be inclined to work something out. then again, I could also see NY using LT's celebrity to make an example out of him. i guess it comes down to what the DA thinks would do the most good - getting a minor-trafficing pimp off the streets or sending a message that would hopefully curb the demand for prostitution to begin with. put another way, does the DA want to attack the supply or curb the demand? [B] i wonder how long until the law&order episode comes out.[/B][/quote]
:rofl: yeah, i could see this one going that way. I don't see Stabler going toe to toe with LT, even at 51

Another part is how LT's past convictions will play into sentencing. If NY has any type of 3 strike law, and he does get found guilty of the current charges, and not a lesser one, he could be looking at a longer time than 3-4 years.

Re: What do Big Ben and Lawrence Taylor have in common?
 

[quote=Longtimefan;699866]I appreciate you putting me wise with NY state laws regarding this type offense. I'm under the impression the state would have the burden since this was an arranged situation that involved patronizing prostitution, contrary to the normal boy meets girl situation. So much for ignorance of the law not being an excuse.[/quote]

i don't think ignorance of the law is ever an excuse. if it is, then thanks for the tip! no more speeding tickets for me! haha

Re: What do Big Ben and Lawrence Taylor have in common?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;699869]:rofl: yeah, i could see this one going that way. I don't see Stabler going toe to toe with LT, even at 51

Another part is how LT's past convictions will play into sentencing. If NY has any type of 3 strike law, and he does get found guilty of the current charges, and not a lesser one, he could be looking at a longer time than 3-4 years.[/quote]

really? aren't the charges he's looking at already considered a misdemeanor? or do 3 strike laws apply to ANY kind of conviction?

Re: What do Big Ben and Lawrence Taylor have in common?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;699855]well I guess thats the piece of information you're missing. LT admitted to pretty much everything when the story first broke. This is before he got a lawyer, as he was under the impression it was just a simple solicitation charge. after it came out that the girl was 16, he got a lawyer. the lawyer denied what LT had previously admitted to, but it may have to do with the actual nature of the contact between the LT and the girl.[/quote]

I guess I totally missed that then

Re: What do Big Ben and Lawrence Taylor have in common?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;699850]what are you talking about? both taylor and the girl agree that she told him she was 19. from the states perspective, its completely irrelevant whether taylor knew she was 16 or not. it might earn him some sympathy in the court of public opinion (from other scumbags), but it won't make a bit of difference in whether he's convicted of the crime. if he had sexual contact with her, he's guilty.[/quote]

If this case actually goes to trial I doubt very seriously that line of defense will be pursued. Even his "scumbag" lawyer would defer on that one.

Re: What do Big Ben and Lawrence Taylor have in common?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;699871]really? aren't the charges he's looking at already considered a misdemeanor? or do 3 strike laws apply to ANY kind of conviction?[/quote]

The sex charge is a felony, the prostitution charge is probably a misdemeanor. I think 3 strikes only apply to felonies. I don't really know, just know he has been convicted of another felony(ies), and a felony sex charge conviction would surely end bad (worse than the 3-4 years mandatory) for him.

Re: What do Big Ben and Lawrence Taylor have in common?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;699870]i don't think ignorance of the law is ever an excuse. if it is, then thanks for the tip! no more speeding tickets for me! haha[/quote]

well many states ( i thought) allow for the defense to prove the defendant reasonably believed that the victim was over the age of consent. ie if you are in a college bar and take a lady into the bathroom, you would be able to defend yourself if she turned out to be 16, but not if she is 20, but then you get a cop to erase the tape and don't say anything, and it doesn't apply anyway.

(see how i tie all this back to the original thread title without actually mentioning anyone. witty cynicism indeed!)

Re: What do Big Ben and Lawrence Taylor have in common?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;699882]well many states ( i thought) allow for the defense to prove the defendant reasonably believed that the victim was over the age of consent. ie if you are in a college bar and take a lady into the bathroom, you would be able to defend yourself if she turned out to be 16, but not if she is 20, but then you get a cop to erase the tape and don't say anything, and it doesn't apply anyway.

(see how i tie all this back to the original thread title without actually mentioning anyone. witty cynicism indeed!)[/quote]

impressive! however, i think the similarities end there. since taylor is retired, its not like his team can threaten to trade him to oakland in an effort to convince him to clean up his life. no one wants to be the QB for oakland.

Re: What do Big Ben and Lawrence Taylor have in common?
 

[QUOTE]"The only thing I can tell you was that [Taylor] had no contact with Rasheed Davis or anyone who acted like a pimp," Aidala said. "Let's deflate some of the myths. He doesn't know this guy.

"I don't think we are going to see any phone records of this person coming into LT's phone, going out of LT's phone," Aidala added. "In terms of Rasheed Davis, Lawrence is adamant that he has no clue who this person is."

According to the complaint, Davis sent the girl a text message on Wednesday in which he said he wanted her to have sex with "Client-1" for $300. When she refused, Davis began threatening her with text messages, prosecutors said.

The texts were "along the lines of 'I'm going to 'F' you up,'" Kramer said.

The complaint said Davis later beat up the victim, drove her to the hotel against her will and waited outside for an hour while she had sex with Taylor.

"I believe even by the investigation done by the district attorney's office and the police department, nobody is saying that Lawrence Taylor saw a bloodied-up young woman," Aidala said. "If he saw a young, underaged woman bloodied up, he wouldn't want anything to do with her except get her help. If you see some woman thrown into your room and she is in distress -- he did not see any woman in distress, bloodied injured in any way shape or form."
Aidala reiterated that his client did not have intercourse with anyone at the hotel that night.

"I don't think their statement is, 'Yes he had sex with her,'" Aidala said of what authorities are claiming. "I think their statement is, 'Yes, he had sexual relations with her.' [But] I don't have a copy of the statement." [/QUOTE]
Here is what LT's lawyer is now saying, from [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/news/story?id=5171884"]an ESPN story[/URL], and seems like he is trying to backtrack on a lot, from LT not knowing the pimp (so then who called is an interesting question) to the fact that she was not bruised. I think the lawyer has a tough job, and still believe he is trying to give the DA a line to make a deal on.

Re: What do Big Ben and Lawrence Taylor have in common?
 

Is the answer to this question 2 Super Bowl rings?

If I am looking two mentor kids, I will pass on these two guys. If I am looking to win football games, I would take both in a second.

Re: What do Big Ben and Lawrence Taylor have in common?
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;700343]Is the answer to this question 2 Super Bowl rings?

If I am looking two mentor kids, I will pass on these two guys. If I am looking to win football games, I would take both in a second.[/quote]
LTs playing days are long over.

Re: What do Big Ben and Lawrence Taylor have in common?
 

More news... apparently LT simply played with himself. I know he has said this but now the friend who drove the girl to meet LT is saying that after the encounter the victim advised them she made easy money. She didn't even have to "F" him cause all he did was masturbate.
[url=http://www.prosportsdaily.com/comments/16yearold-hooker-told-friend-i-didnt-have-sex-with-taylor-364785.html]Comments on 16-year-old hooker told friend: I didn't hav - 05-13-2010[/url]

[QUOTE]"The 16-year-old hooker whose claims about having sex with ex-Giant Lawrence Taylor led to a rape charge against him actually bragged to a friend about making "easy money" because "I didn't even have to f— him," a source told The Post.

The friend, who drove with the hooker to meet Taylor that night, has given a sworn statement that the girl told her immediately afterward that the Hall of Famer merely engaged in masturbation before paying her $300 — not sexual intercourse or oral sex, said the source.[/QUOTE]

So now either it truly didn't happen or is LT paying someone off to say they were told there was no physical sex involved?

Re: What do Big Ben and Lawrence Taylor have in common?
 

definitely TMI

I don't think this makes things any better, and legally he may still be in hot water.

Re: What do Big Ben and Lawrence Taylor have in common?
 

I'm sure there still has to be a charge for exposing oneself to a minor but atleast it might not be a felony. Atleast I think thats what he and his lawyer are going to argue.

It still ruins his image and if he had a family I'm sure it doesn't help it out either.

Re: What do Big Ben and Lawrence Taylor have in common?
 

Anyone hear his wife in a recent interview? She's in total denial. She sounds crazy as all hell too. Not surprising I guess since LT isn't exactly the most stable person either.

Re: What do Big Ben and Lawrence Taylor have in common?
 

That quote sure seems a little odd. What friend rode with her? was the friend there when she was beat up? Now she is a 16yo hooker, not a 16yo runaway. That seems to me like someone trying to protect, not only LT, but possibly the pimp as well. not to mention paying 300 for ?nothing?

here is another quote from the link about who said the earlier quote:
[QUOTE]The friend — a stripper who lived with the hooker and accused pimp Rasheed Davis in The Bronx — told investigators she has come forward to contradict the hooker's tale to cops because of "three things: they didn't have sex, she's lying, and he's innocent," according to the source.[/QUOTE]

Re: What do Big Ben and Lawrence Taylor have in common?
 

[quote=SBXVII;700733]More news... apparently LT simply played with himself. I know he has said this but now the friend who drove the girl to meet LT is saying that after the encounter the victim advised them she made easy money. She didn't even have to "F" him cause all he did was masturbate.
[url=http://www.prosportsdaily.com/comments/16yearold-hooker-told-friend-i-didnt-have-sex-with-taylor-364785.html]Comments on 16-year-old hooker told friend: I didn't hav - 05-13-2010[/url]


So now either it truly didn't happen or is LT paying someone off to say they were told there was no physical sex involved?[/quote]

could be true.
Joe Theismann is reporting that LT really knows how work a bone.

Re: What do Big Ben and Lawrence Taylor have in common?
 

[url=http://www.bbqaddicts.com/blog/recipes/super-bowl-burger-recipe/comment-page-1/#comment-37706]Super Bowl Recipes: Ben Roethlis-BURGER[/url]

Check out the latest comment. :lol:

Re: What do Big Ben and Lawrence Taylor have in common?
 

[IMG]http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/7424/roethlisburger.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://img80.imageshack.us/i/roethlisburger.jpg/[/IMG]

Re: What do Big Ben and Lawrence Taylor have in common?
 

[quote=Mattyk;700734]definitely TMI

I don't think this makes things any better, and legally he may still be in hot water.[/quote]
If that article was TMI than this one is [URL="http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2010/05/12/2010-05-12_lawrence_taylor_rape_defence_i_didnt_touch_teen_hooker_i_touched_myself_says_exg.html?ref=rss"]way too much information[/URL]. In it, LT goes with the no-touch defense and the 16yo, who i guess interviewed with the NY Daily News, gives a pretty detailed/graphic rebuttal. Not everyone(maybe no one) should read this article.

Re: What do Big Ben and Lawrence Taylor have in common?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;700843]If that article was TMI than this one is [URL="http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2010/05/12/2010-05-12_lawrence_taylor_rape_defence_i_didnt_touch_teen_hooker_i_touched_myself_says_exg.html?ref=rss"]way too much information[/URL]. In it, LT goes with the no-touch defense and the 16yo, who i guess interviewed with the NY Daily News, gives a pretty detailed/graphic rebuttal. [B] Not everyone(maybe no one) should read this article[/B].[/quote]

should have listened to you :doh:

Re: What do Big Ben and Lawrence Taylor have in common?
 

LOL, love it...

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/]ProFootballTalk.com[/url]

[QUOTE]According to TMZ, Taylor will potentially become a registered sex offender if convicted of patronizing an underage prostitute.[/QUOTE]

Re: What do Big Ben and Lawrence Taylor have in common?
 

so tired of hearing about this. disgusting.......