Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=saden1;707673]If you want to play grownup let's put all the facts out there...Obama came in and there was 1.3 trillion dollar annual budget deficit...what would you have liked for him to cut and how would those cuts impact the economy?[/quote]
Welfare.

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;707794]Sorry, couldn't resist

[IMG]http://wtfurls.com/daily/images/634.jpg[/IMG][/quote]
Sorry but the president does not control spending so you have to look at who had control of congress. Who ever made that chart does not understand government and the function of each house and the president. Also those numbers seem very low compared to the first year of Obama and a democrate controled congress.

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=firstdown;707804]Sorry but the president does not control spending so you have to look at who had control of congress. Who ever made that chart does not understand government and the function of each house and the president. Also those numbers seem very low compared to the first year of Obama and a democrate controled congress.[/quote]

I know what you're saying -- it's just a dumb cartoon. I will say that the President always has the chance to veto any spending bill, although it's usually not so black and white.

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;707831]I know what you're saying -- it's just a dumb cartoon. I will say that the President always has the chance to veto any spending bill, although it's usually not so black and white.[/quote]

Yes the president does but the problem is that they always stick spending in other bills so to get it passed. That was never more true then with RR as the Dem's. loaded every bill with more spending. I think that every bill should stand on its own and everything gets voted on separately.

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[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;707794]Sorry, couldn't resist

[IMG]http://wtfurls.com/daily/images/634.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

word

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;707794]Sorry, couldn't resist

[IMG]http://wtfurls.com/daily/images/634.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

LOL. What moron drew this cartoon? Like Firstdown said, the spending approvals come from Congress, plus whoever conveniently drew this put McCain on there after W instead of the current President, who's out of control spending has us facing a deficit larger than Reagen, H.W., and W. combined. Our deficit is currently about 10% of the GDP. That's scary as hell.

I know, I know, it's all W's fault. :doh:

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=GMScud;707934]LOL. What moron drew this cartoon? Like Firstdown said, the spending approvals come from Congress, plus whoever conveniently drew this put McCain on there after W instead of the current President, [B]who's out of control spending has us facing a deficit larger than Reagen, H.W., and W. combined. Our deficit is currently about 10% of the GDP.[/B] That's scary as hell.

I know, I know, it's all W's fault. :doh:[/quote]


You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

I suppose we can give Bush credit for all the spending that went on when the GOP had control of both chambers for 6 years. I know you lot like to wiggle and weasel but a :doh: face isn't going to cut it. Also, I forgot the Democratic congress were the ones that spend all that money fighting the cold war and won it, and invaded Iraq in the early 90's. Thanks for reminding me.

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=saden1;707937][B]You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. [/B]

I suppose we can give Bush credit for all the spending that went on when the GOP had control of both chambers for 6 years. I know you lot like to wiggle and weasel but a :doh: face isn't going to cut it. Also, I forgot the Democratic congress were the ones that spend all that money fighting the cold war and won it, and invaded Iraq in the early 90's. Thanks for reminding me.[/quote]


Anything to deflect from how much these current idiots are spending I suppose.

You're an abrasive know it all. Like most progressives. But you already know that. No need to get vulgar with me.

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=GMScud;707938]Anything to deflect from how much these current idiots are spending I suppose.

You're an abrasive know it all. Like most progressives. But you already know that. No need to get vulgar with me.[/quote]

Nah, I just don't care for stupid posts with no basis in reality and those who post them.

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=saden1;707940]Nah, I just don't care for stupid posts with no basis in reality and those who post them.[/quote]

Whatever you say.

Obama increased the deficit by $1 trillion in his first year in office. Adjusting for inflation, your Lord's first year spending was about 21% of what Clinton spent his entire 8 years in office. He's shattering spending records.

That's real, despite what you'd like to believe.

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=GMScud;707941]Whatever you say.

[B]Obama increased the deficit by $1 trillion in his first year in office.[/B] Adjusting for inflation, your Lord's first year spending was about 21% of what Clinton spent his entire 8 years in office. He's shattering spending records.

That's real, despite what you'd like to believe.[/quote]

LOL...show the math. I bet 1 year VIP membership you can't.

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=firstdown;707804]Sorry but the president does not control spending so you have to look at who had control of congress. Who ever made that chart does not understand government and the function of each house and the president. Also those numbers seem very low compared to the first year of Obama and a democrate controled congress.[/quote]

Wow. That's just unbelievable. The notion the President doesn't drive spending and the overall budget via his 1) agenda 2) ties on Capital Hill 3) party politics and 4) oh yeah he's the President.

C'mon man. Any President who wants to balance the budget can veto any bill, spending or otherwise, in a heartbeat. Then Congress must pass said bill by 2/3 to override veto. The pt is any President who really wants to put the hammer down can do so.

The notion Reagan and the retarded Bush were fiscal conservatives is just asinine nonsense.

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=saden1;707943]LOL...show the math. I bet 1 year VIP membership you can't.[/quote]

I don't gamble, but here:

[url=http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11/24/obama-shatters-spending-record-year-presidents/]FOXNews.com - Obama Shatters Spending Record for First-Year Presidents[/url]

[I]In fiscal 2009 the federal government spent $3.52 trillion -- $2.8 trillion in 2000 dollars, which sets a benchmark for comparison. That fiscal year covered the last three-and-a-half months of George W. Bush's term and the first eight-and-a-half months of Obama's. [/I]
[B][I]That price tag came with a $1.4 trillion deficit, nearly $1 trillion more than last year. The overall budget was about a half-trillion more than Bush's for 2008, his final full fiscal year in office. [/I][/B]


[url=http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_deficit]US Federal Deficit - Charts Tables History[/url]

Is $1.4 trillion (2009 US Defecit) - $410 billion (2008 US Defecit) about $1 trillion? A 2nd grader would tell you yes.

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=GMScud;707947]I don't gamble, but here:

[url=http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11/24/obama-shatters-spending-record-year-presidents/]FOXNews.com - Obama Shatters Spending Record for First-Year Presidents[/url]

[I]In fiscal 2009 the federal government spent $3.52 trillion -- $2.8 trillion in 2000 dollars, which sets a benchmark for comparison. That fiscal year covered the last three-and-a-half months of George W. Bush's term and the first eight-and-a-half months of Obama's. [/I]
[B][I]That price tag came with a $1.4 trillion deficit, nearly $1 trillion more than last year. The overall budget was about a half-trillion more than Bush's for 2008, his final full fiscal year in office. [/I][/B]


[url=http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_deficit]US Federal Deficit - Charts Tables History[/url]

Is $1.4 trillion (2009 US Defecit) - $410 billion (2008 US Defecit) about $1 trillion? A 2nd grader would tell you yes.[/quote]

Pssst, the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_United_States_federal_budget"]2009 budget was Bush's budget[/URL]....I know, you didn't know that did you? Of course you did.

Truth is your boy Bush done fucked shit up real bad and passed on a disgusting budget outlay to Lord Obama...I know you don't want to admit it and love kicking Obama in the nuts but your people done fucked shit up. They cut taxes, spend a ton, used budgetary gimmicks to hide spending, and finally kicked the ball to our savior, Lord Obama.

Listen, smart guy, I fully understand that Dems tax and spend but I can't understand why you think your angelic GOP doesn't tax and spend. It's crystal clear to me that they spend, and spend, and suck the life U.S. budget time and again yet you lot pretend they're more fiscally conservative than Dems. I don't get it. You really think McCain would have spend less than Obama? GTFOOH with your bullish.

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=saden1;707949]Pssst, the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_United_States_federal_budget"]2009 budget was Bush's budget[/URL]....I know, you didn't know that did you?

Truth is your boy Bush done fucked shit up real bad and passed on a disgusting budget outlay to Lord Obama...I know you don't want to admit it kick Obama in the nuts but your people done fucked shit up. They cut taxes, spend a ton, used budgetary gimmicks to hide spending, and finally kicked the ball our savior, Lord Obama.[/quote]

I'm not a political science expert nor a financial one, but wasn't Obama in office for 8 of the 12 months of the fiscal year? Wasn't all the spending that increased the deficit by such a huge number due in part to legislation pushed through by your Lord? I know a chunk came from pre-Obama policies/legislation, but your Lord certainly isn't helping.

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=GMScud;707934]LOL. What moron drew this cartoon? Like Firstdown said, the spending approvals come from Congress, plus whoever conveniently drew this put McCain on there after W instead of the current President, who's out of control spending has us facing a deficit larger than Reagen, H.W., and W. combined. Our deficit is currently about 10% of the GDP. That's scary as hell.

I know, I know, it's all W's fault. :doh:[/quote]

check out the date on the cartoon

Re: I Apologize
 

And don't call Bush my boy. That he certainly is not. He was as fiscally irresponsible as they come. Again, don't mistake my party affiliation as blanket support of Obama's predecessor.

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=GMScud;707953]I'm not a political science expert nor a financial one, but wasn't Obama in office for 8 of the 12 months of the fiscal year? Wasn't all the spending that increased the deficit by such a huge number due in part to legislation pushed through by your Lord? I know a chunk came from pre-Obama policies/legislation, but your Lord certainly isn't helping.[/quote]

Regardless of whether he is in office or not Bush's budget is in effect until September 2009. The budget doesn't change unless if there is a supplemental request by Lord Obama [URL="http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:eaiGd5_KRusJ:www.whitehouse.gov/omb/assets/budget_amendments/supplemental_04_09_09.pdf+2009+supplemental+appropriations+act&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESj1Rbyyy_fL9rSN2Pr8zP-2XqBBmcU9UaQR3h6KDNHO1PEFCSJkbSn0MJMsKZAhEyMa2AKdbGyu3Jk0N6NrSu4jLFOWJGrTI8aKw1SnByTF-9YSX2JdPDdROPu02Zstcgj7cf6m&sig=AHIEtbRIRZZ2CIF9JjLZA5nMOxuTRHPMBg"]which in fact did[/URL] to support the ongoing military effort.

Going forward with his 2010 budget Obama includes all military spending for the war effort in the budge unlike his predecessor who hid war spending from the budget by constantly using supplemental requests.

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=GMScud;707956]And don't call Bush my boy. That he certainly is not. He was as fiscally irresponsible as they come. Again, don't mistake my party affiliation as blanket support of Obama's predecessor.[/quote]

My larger point is fiscal conservative line is complete bullish...sorta like hope and change.

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=saden1;707949]Pssst, the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_United_States_federal_budget"]2009 budget was Bush's budget[/URL]....I know, you didn't know that did you? Of course you did.

Truth is your boy Bush done fucked shit up real bad and passed on a disgusting budget outlay to Lord Obama...I know you don't want to admit it and love kicking Obama in the nuts but your people done fucked shit up. They cut taxes, spend a ton, used budgetary gimmicks to hide spending, and finally kicked the ball to our savior, Lord Obama.
[B]
Listen, smart guy, I fully understand that Dems tax and spend but I can't understand why you think your angelic GOP doesn't tax and spend. It's crystal clear to me that they spend, and spend, and suck the life U.S. budget time and again yet you lot pretend they're more fiscally conservative than Dems. I don't get it. You really think McCain would have spend less than Obama? GTFOOH with your bullish.[/B][/quote]

Nice addendum. Typical constant condescension from you. It's so unnecessary.

Wasn't McCain proposing a spending freeze?

You really don't pay attention to what I say, probably because you're the smartest person on this site and view all of us as political neophytes. I'm certainly not trying to prove that I know more about politics than you (I know I don't) or anyone else.

I'm a registered Republican, but I don't really care for either party all that much (changing my registration to independent at some point prior to the first Tuesday of November), or the state of American politics in general.

Saying stuff like "your angelic GOP," and "your boy Bush" doesn't really jive with anything I've said.

For the LAST time, my criticism of Democratic policy is not an endorsement of all things GOP.

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=GMScud;707941]Whatever you say.

Obama increased the deficit by $1 trillion in his first year in office. Adjusting for inflation, your Lord's first year spending was about 21% of what Clinton spent his entire 8 years in office. He's shattering spending records.

That's real, despite what you'd like to believe.[/quote]

Of course, you're not taking in consideration that we just went through the biggest recession since the great depression?

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=12thMan;707970]Of course, you're not taking in consideration that we just went through the biggest recession since the great depression?[/quote]

Honestly, I'm over it for today. I'm having a drink and trying to enjoy the remainder of my night. I know better than to get into all these political conversations, yet I do it anyway. Doing it after a drink or two is definitely not smart.

Cheers to all, even you Saden1. :)

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=GMScud;707972]Honestly, I'm over it for today. I'm having a drink and trying to enjoy the remainder of my night. I know better than to get into all these political conversations, yet I do it anyway. Doing after a drink or two is definitely not smart.

Cheers to all, even you Saden1. :)[/quote]

I must say your punctuation is excellent for a someone who's been drinking. Have a good night buddy.

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=12thMan;707974]I must say your punctuation is excellent for a someone who's been drinking. Have a good night buddy.[/quote]

Well, I'm on my first drink. Give me an hour. ;)

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=The Goat;707945]The notion Reagan and the retarded Bush were fiscal conservatives is just asinine nonsense.[/quote]The notion that Reagan WASN'T a fiscal conservative is asinine nonsense.

Bush agree with you on that one, but most conservatives understand Bush 2 wasn't a fiscal conservative.

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=12thMan;707970]Of course, you're not taking in consideration that we just went through the biggest recession since the great depression?[/quote]

Yes and that trillion was pretty much wasted and everything he said it would do it has not done.

Re: I Apologize
 

All I can say is that the country needs the Redskins to win the SB so that all the Dems and Reps in DC can finally be unified on a subject. Clearly the dearth of civility in politics coincides with the decline of the Skins into NFL purgatory, and we must have our team ascend in order to save our country!

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=saden1;707949]Truth is your boy Bush done fucked shit up real bad and passed on a disgusting budget outlay to Lord Obama...I know you don't want to admit it and love kicking Obama in the nuts but your people done fucked shit up. They cut taxes, spend a ton, used budgetary gimmicks to hide spending, and [B]finally kicked the ball to our savior, Lord Obama.[/B][/quote]Who isn't doin ish with the problem but making it greater and kicking it further down the road. "Compassionate Conservative" or "Hope and Change", who the hell is going to deal with this?

"Based on the 2010 U.S. budget, total national debt will nearly double in dollar terms between 2008 and 2015 and will grow to nearly 100% of GDP, versus a level of approximately 80% in early 2009.[URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/#cite_note-60"][COLOR=#0645ad][61][/COLOR][/URL] Multiple government sources including the current and previous presidents, the GAO, Treasury Department, and CBO have said the U.S. is on an unsustainable fiscal path.[URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/#cite_note-61"][COLOR=#0645ad][62][/COLOR][/URL]"

Unless we get folks in office that really care about getting our financial house in order, we're all in for a kick in the nuts when a VAT is enacted to "pay down the defecit".

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;708032]Who isn't doin ish with the problem but making it greater and kicking it further down the road. "Compassionate Conservative" or "Hope and Change", who the hell is going to deal with this?

"Based on the 2010 U.S. budget, total national debt will nearly double in dollar terms between 2008 and 2015 and will grow to nearly 100% of GDP, versus a level of approximately 80% in early 2009.[URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/#cite_note-60"][COLOR=#0645ad][61][/COLOR][/URL] Multiple government sources including the current and previous presidents, the GAO, Treasury Department, and CBO have said the U.S. is on an unsustainable fiscal path.[URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/#cite_note-61"][COLOR=#0645ad][62][/COLOR][/URL]"

Unless we get folks in office that really care about getting our financial house in order, we're all in for a kick in the nuts when a VAT is enacted to "pay down the defecit".[/quote]

Have you looked at Paul Ryan's deficit reduction plan? It's garbage...no one has the balls to cut anything or tax anyone.

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=saden1;708060]Have you looked at Paul Ryan's deficit reduction plan? It's garbage...no one has the balls to cut anything or tax anyone.[/quote]Interesting take by Bruce Bartlett. I may read his new book.

[URL="http://www.forbes.com/2010/02/11/cut-spending-taxes-budget-medicare-paul-ryan-opinions-columnists-bruce-bartlett.html"]Paul Ryan's Budgetary Holy Grail - Forbes.com[/URL]

Also good info from Heritage.

[URL="http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/2010/06/The-Three-Biggest-Myths-About-Tax-Cuts-and-the-Budget-Deficit"]The Three Biggest Myths About Tax Cuts and the Budget Deficit | The Heritage Foundation[/URL]

While I agree mostly with Heritage's take, I would advocate implementing the FairTax and temporarily elevate the rate with the elevated % of it exclusively for debt reduction and not put into the general fund. Once the entitlement programs/debt interest are reformed and under control the rate would reduce to a "normal" rate.

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=saden1;708060]Have you looked at Paul Ryan's deficit reduction plan? It's garbage...no one has the balls to cut anything or tax anyone.[/quote]

He'll never get it through Congress and one reason he'll never, at least in the near future, be a serious candidate for president.

I will say, however, that Mr. Ryan is one of the few Republicans that I respect and has his thinking cap on when trying to address the problem and not just right wing hyperbole.

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;708131]Interesting take by Bruce Bartlett. I may read his new book.

[URL="http://www.forbes.com/2010/02/11/cut-spending-taxes-budget-medicare-paul-ryan-opinions-columnists-bruce-bartlett.html"]Paul Ryan's Budgetary Holy Grail - Forbes.com[/URL]

Also good info from Heritage.

[URL="http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/2010/06/The-Three-Biggest-Myths-About-Tax-Cuts-and-the-Budget-Deficit"]The Three Biggest Myths About Tax Cuts and the Budget Deficit | The Heritage Foundation[/URL]

While I agree mostly with Heritage's take, I would advocate implementing the FairTax and temporarily elevate the rate with the elevated % of it exclusively for debt reduction and not put into the general fund. Once the entitlement programs/debt interest are reformed and under control the rate would reduce to a "normal" rate.[/quote]

My main gripe with Ryan's proposal is that it takes nearly 70 years to tackle deficits and he only targets non-defense spending. I will give him credit, at least he has the guts to go after Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security but I won't pretend he doesn't lose credibility when he takes defense spending off the table.

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=firstdown;707998]Yes and that trillion was pretty much wasted and everything he said it would do it has not done.[/quote]

Yeah, except for grow the economy three consecutive quarters? And keep, oh, tens of thousands police, firemen, and teachers employed across the nation? And oh, allow a number of states and municipalities to meet their budget(s) without plunging local economies into depression. And should we start on GM and the banks who have turned the corner and are paying back the bailout money - almost all of it?

Yeah, the stimulus and bailout sucked big time!!

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=saden1;708155]My main gripe with Ryan's proposal is that it takes nearly 70 years to tackle deficits and he only targets non-defense spending. I will give him credit, at least he has the guts to go after Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security but I won't pretend he doesn't [B]lose credibility when he takes defense spending off the table[/B].[/quote]Agreed. Defense has to be included in comprehensive spending cuts. Defense spending has been good to me over the years, but there's definitely room to cut there.

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=12thMan;708157]Yeah, except for grow the economy three consecutive quarters? And keep, oh, tens of thousands police, firemen, and teachers employed across the nation? And oh, allow a number of states and municipalities to meet their budget(s) without plunging local economies into depression. And should we start on GM and the banks who have turned the corner and are paying back the bailout money - almost all of it?

Yeah, the stimulus and bailout sucked big time!![/quote] here is an article from the NY times in 2003 on reform in regards to banking / home loans [url=http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/11/business/new-agency-proposed-to-oversee-freddie-mac-and-fannie-mae.html]New Agency Proposed to Oversee Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae - NYTimes.com[/url] who was right on this, Hmm ? In 2005 ,Dems were saying we had no need for reform , video included [url=http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/10/11/maxine-waters-caught-lying-about-fannie-mae-ties-real-time]Maxine Waters Caught Lying About Fannie Mae Ties on 'Real Time' | NewsBusters.org[/url]
[url=http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2083758/posts]McCain - Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005 (Democrats blocked reform)[/url] back in 05 , dems were saying Rep's sucked for wanting to pass reform on Banking and the GSE's too ... [url=http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122212948811465427.html]Blame Fannie Mae and Congress For the Credit Mess - WSJ.com[/url] And also in 2005 , lord Obama met with Fannie Mae CEO , and ... well we know how well that worked out . IN 2006 , Pelosi and Co. took control of congress , 4 years later have we seen anything get better ? Both parties suck , sad to say ,but the entitlement mantra from the Dems is sick .... we are entitled to what we work for , not what politician can steal from Peter and give to Paul .

Re: I Apologize
 

you quote 2005 as Dem's saying there is no need for reform. the GOP at that time had both control of congress, and the white house. they didnt need the Dem's. so its a little hypocritical to blame anyone. they are all at fault

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=dmek25;708291]you quote 2005 as Dem's saying there is no need for reform. the GOP at that time had both control of congress, and the white house. they didnt need the Dem's. so its a little hypocritical to blame anyone. they are all at fault[/quote]GOP didn't have enough to break a filibuster.

Re: I Apologize
 

OK the Dems and Repubs are to blame. But TEA party ain't the answer. No one would listen to them or respect them. It would be a free for all. Talking tough, quoting the declaration of independence will get their card pulled and their bluff called. What would be left is a group of emotional fanatics.

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;707987][B]The notion that Reagan WASN'T a fiscal conservative is asinine nonsense.[/B]

Bush agree with you on that one, but most conservatives understand Bush 2 wasn't a fiscal conservative.[/quote]

This is exactly the kind of thing that makes me lose faith in our citizenry and the collective future. We had a President who oversaw roughly $3 TRILLION IN NEW NATIONAL DEBT BECAUSE HE SLASHED TAXES AND DRASTICALLY INCREASED SPENDING (NOT ON THE PUBLIC BUT SOLELY ON THE MILITARY-INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX) AND YET PEOPLE SOMEHOW WANT TO HOLD ONTO A FANTASY OF FISCAL CONSERVATISM.

I mean that's just nonsense. Why waste time w/ insipid, stupid fantasies that contradict the historical record? I'm not even creative but I can think of more exciting fairytales on a whim!

Re: I Apologize
 

[quote=firstdown;707998]Yes and that trillion was pretty much wasted and everything he said it would do it has not done.[/quote]

Thats probably the G NO P's fault and not Obama's. In fact, I know it is!