Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[quote=GTripp0012;709859]While catches can be a pretty good measure of which receivers are getting open, you're probably just seeing the effects of having to share the football with Antonio Gates in an offense that throws a high % of it's passes to the running backs behind the line of scrimmage. Jackson catches an obscene (>60%) amount of his passes for a guy who does most of his work beyond the 15 yard zone, and while I can't doubt that a lot of that is the function of superb accuracy on the part of his QB (something he can't take with him), I certainly can't think of 5 receivers I'd rather have on my team.
[B]
More to the point, I can't think of a younger receiver than Jackson who is proven enough to warrant a first round pick in a trade.[/B]

Hopefully the suspension drives down the price tag on Jackson. If it doesn't, the Chargers are bad at understanding the business side of the NFL.[/quote]

Larry Fitzgerald? Brandon Marshall?

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;709823]I don't put Jackson in the same category as Marshall. I think Miami gave Denver a 2nd rounder which IMO is a steal for Miami. I'm not giving up a 2nd rounder for Jackson. It's just too risky. 3rd rounder and Kelly then I'd make the deal.[/QUOTE]

Miami gave up two second rounders for Marshall

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[quote=GMScud;709856]IMO that should be the price range. Miami gave up two second rounders for Brandon Marshall who is younger and statistically pretty dominant over VJ. No way we should give more than Miami did.[/quote]Can't agree that Marshall is statistically dominant over VJ. Marshall is a 12 yard per reception guy for his career, which is less than, among others, Santana Moss and Malcolm Kelly. He doesn't catch a particularly high % if the 180 targets per year he averages. His (Marshall's) 10 TDs last year represent a significant breakout over his past, or potentially, a fluke year. For Jackson, a 7-10 TD season would just be expected.

I know he's been able to rack up the big totals in Denver, with 100 receptions and 1,000 yards, but those haven't really been great passing games for that work. The Chargers have been great and then some, which is a credit to everyone involved (Rivers, Jackson, Sproles, Gates, Norv)

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[quote=GMScud;709863]Larry Fitzgerald? Brandon Marshall?[/quote]/checks age on Fitzgerald.

There's one. They're both 27. Good find.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[quote=over the mountain;709851]Anyone else getting the feeling that McNabb's window of time left before he starts to noticeably decline (2-3 years) is the window allen and shanny want to win a SB?

Just seems like we are in a win now or next year mode.

top 10 defense? check
Getting a franchise qb? check
Getting a LT and RT? check
Getting a true no. 1 receiver to reap the benefits of having a franchise qb and competent O line? TBD.[/quote]

Shanhan won SB's in Denver with and 8th round WR and undrafted WR.
I see your point about McNabb....but I think our looking at WR's right now is more about Shannahan not happy with what we currently have at WR than that we need to win now because McNabb is older. They are exploring the diffrent options and cost to improve our WR corp that he is clearly not happy with yet.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

Rumor is the chargers are in discussions with the redskins and bears about Jackson. At this point which team has more to offer?

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[quote=GMScud;709863]Larry Fitzgerald? Brandon Marshall?[/quote]

Marques Colston, DeSean Jackson, Sidney Rice?

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[quote=over the mountain;709851]Anyone else getting the feeling that McNabb's window of time left before he starts to noticeably decline (2-3 years) is the window allen and shanny want to win a SB?

Just seems like we are in a win now or next year mode.

top 10 defense? check
Getting a franchise qb? check
Getting a LT and RT? check
Getting a true no. 1 receiver to reap the benefits of having a franchise qb and competent O line? TBD.[/quote]

I think it's safe to say the plan from the very beginning with McNabb involved a 3 year window to try to win it all. You don't bring in a 33 year old QB with plans on rebuilding, that's for sure.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[quote=GTripp0012;709865]Can't agree that Marshall is statistically dominant over VJ. Marshall is a 12 yard per reception guy for his career, which is less than, among others, Santana Moss and Malcolm Kelly. He doesn't catch a particularly high % if the 180 targets per year he averages. His (Marshall's) 10 TDs last year represent a significant breakout over his past, or potentially, a fluke year. For Jackson, a 7-10 TD season would just be expected.

I know he's been able to rack up the big totals in Denver, with 100 receptions and 1,000 yards, but those haven't really been great passing games for that work. The Chargers have been great and then some, which is a credit to everyone involved (Rivers, Jackson, Sproles, Gates, Norv)[/quote]

I hear you, I just feel like Marshall is a really dynamic playmaker. He has a penchant for big time catches, and often finds spectacular ways to find the endzone after the catch. I know "dynamic playmaker" is tough to quantify (and I also know that his YPC doesn't help that argument), but that's just my opinion.

Also, when you're targeted as often as Marshall was in Denver, chances are your YPC is going to be lower. He was used so much in both the short, intermediate, and deep passing game, much more so than VJ in SD. Not that VJ couldn't be that guy, he just wasn't for reasons you pointed out (Gates and good pass catching RBs).

I have no doubt if you swapped VJ's role in SD with Brandon Marshall, the YPC numbers would have been just as good.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[quote=GTripp0012;709867]/checks age on Fitzgerald.

There's one. They're both 27. Good find.[/quote]

Actually they're both 26. Although Fitz will be 27 when the season starts. Marshall just turned 26 recently.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[quote=Mattyk;709878]I think it's safe to say the plan from the very beginning with McNabb involved a 3 year window to try to win it all. You don't bring in a 33 year old QB with plans on rebuilding, that's for sure.[/quote]

Completely agree. Just hope we can protect him, thats all......

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[quote=Mattyk;709878]I think it's safe to say the plan from the very beginning with McNabb involved a 3 year window to try to win it all. You don't bring in a 33 year old QB with plans on rebuilding, that's for sure.[/quote]

I agree that there's likely a window Shanny/Allen are working with, however despite said window, they still need to find a good balance with an influx of youth as well.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

Marshall isn't the burner that Jackson is, he really has some speed for a big guy.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[quote=GTripp0012;709837][B]Jackson is probably the one acquisition in the NFL that could take us from borderline playoff contender to borderline super bowl contender. [/B]

He's not young for his experience level, necessarily, but he's just a 5th year player who is 27 years old. That gives him 2 or 3 more years as an elite, top five, NFL wide receiver, which means he's worth a first round pick plus in compensation.

If the Redskins are going to acquire him, however, they'll need to get really creative, because we can't afford to give up our first and our second rounder to get this guy. Haynesworth probably isn't worth much value to San Diego, but other players on our roster very well might be.

I'd try to send over a 2012 first rounder, and a couple of players, perhaps Chris Horton and Santana Moss, or Carlos Rogers and Devin Thomas. That might get it done, if only because Jackson is in such heavy contract limbo, and could be a UFA next year if the CBA allows for it.

Word of caution is that AJ Smith might be the one NFL GM who is willing to let a valuable player sit out rather than overpay him. In the future, more GMs will play hardass with their players, but Smith, I think, is going to get run out of town for being a little ahead of his time.[/quote]

I disagree. We were 4-12 for a reason. I'd be more realistic and say Jackson makes us a playoff contender. Not a SB contender.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

I don't think the Marshall/Jackson comparisons are valid one bit. Besides size and athletic prowess, we're talking about two completely different caliber receivers.

For one, Jackson played in a more dynamic offense with more weapons. Marshall, for the most part, was the premier weapon in Denver and their offense isn't as imaginative or complex as San Diego's.

I guess the argument I'm making, if you team up Marshall with Norv Turner his stats go through the roof.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[quote=GTripp0012;709842]Jackson averages [B]5 yards[/B] more per catch than Brandon Marshall [U]and[/U] catches a higher percentage of passes thrown to him. Both in 2009 and over their careers.

I think Rivers is better than Cutler/Orton, of course, but not THAT much better. It's not even close.[/quote]

I'm still taking Marshall over Jackson. 3 straight years of 100+ catches is about as consistent as it gets. Jackson game in and game out isn't as consistent as Marshall.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[quote=GMScud;709853]I disagree that he's a top 5 WR (although physically I think he's probably a top 2 or 3 WR). He was 30th in the league in catches last year and has never topped the 70 catch mark. I think his best seasons are probably still in front of him though (depending on where he's playing). Brandon Marshall is a year younger and already has 3 100+ catch, 1100+ yard seasons in lesser offenses with lesser QBs than VJ. IMO Jackson's avg yards/catch still doesn't trump those numbers.

Plus there's the whole looming suspension thing.[/quote]

Exactly.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[quote=Mattyk;709864]Miami gave up two second rounders for Marshall[/quote]

that's a steep price. not sure i would've given up 2 2nd rounders.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[quote=12thMan;709886]I don't think the Marshall/Jackson comparisons are valid one bit. Besides size and athletic prowess, we're talking about two completely different caliber receivers.

For one, Jackson played in a more dynamic offense with more weapons. Marshall, for the most part, was the premier weapon in Denver and their offense isn't as imaginative or complex as San Diego's.

I guess the argument I'm making, [B]if you team up Marshall with Norv Turner his stats go through the roof[/B].[/quote]

Marshall's stats are already through the roof. Has any receiver in football in the past three years had consecutive 100 catch, 1100 yard seasons? Off the top of my head I don't think so. And Marshall did it while 23, 24, and 25 years old with multiple coaches/QB's/systems. Big fan of the kid's game.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

Mrshall is the better of the two for all reasons stated in the above posts.

I for one do not want to give up picks for VJ. ALTHOUGH keeping Moss, and adding Vincent as our #1 with Moss #2 and the two tightends does give us alot of weapons on offense and of course having weapons like that to go along with CP, LJ, MS, and WP in the backfield definately gives us a potent offense and should take us out of the doldrums in the NFC East. Superbowl I am not sure of, but it should make us a real contender to win the NFC east this year.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[quote=skinsfan69;709885]I disagree. We were 4-12 for a reason. I'd be more realistic and say Jackson makes us a playoff contender. Not a SB contender.[/quote]

Or even better. Without Jackson i see us right now as a borderline 9-7 team, wild card contender. With a top notch number 1, such as Jackson, we are borderline 10-6, and we win the division.

That being said, I don't want to pay him, i don't want to trade for him. I think we will need the picks to address QB, RB, WR, and DB over the next 2 years.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

A friend of mine says that Shefter is reporting the Redskins have traded for Jackson. Can anyone confirm this

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;709909]A friend of mine says that Shefter is reporting the Redskins have traded for Jackson. Can anyone confirm this[/quote]

Nothing on Twitter about it

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[quote=over the mountain;709851]Anyone else getting the feeling that McNabb's window of time left before he starts to noticeably decline (2-3 years) is the window allen and shanny want to win a SB?

Just seems like we are in a win now or next year mode.

top 10 defense? check
Getting a franchise qb? check
Getting a LT and RT? check
Getting a true no. 1 receiver to reap the benefits of having a franchise qb and competent O line? TBD.[/quote]

Seems like you just went down the list of the moves we have made this year. I've got some additions/changes...

top 10 defense? no idea b/c this group w/ the 3-4 is untested
franchise qb? no b/c McNabb is not the long term answer
Getting a LT and RT? yeah, we acquired a LT and RT. One is coming off a major injury and is changing positions, the other is a rookie who wasn't the top ranked tackle in the draft
Solid RB core? No, bunch of old-timers
The list could go on and on about the deficiencies.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;709919]Seems like you just went down the list of the moves we have made this year. I've got some additions/changes...

top 10 defense? no idea b/c this group w/ the 3-4 is untested
franchise qb? no b/c McNabb is not the long term answer
Getting a LT and RT? yeah, we acquired a LT and RT. One is coming off a major injury and is changing positions, the other is a rookie who wasn't the top ranked tackle in the draft
Solid RB core? No, bunch of old-timers
The list could go on and on about the deficiencies.[/quote]

Agreed. 100%. Over HALF the moves Shanahan has made are completely suspect.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;709919]Seems like you just went down the list of the moves we have made this year. I've got some additions/changes...

top 10 defense? no idea b/c this group w/ the 3-4 is untested
franchise qb? no b/c McNabb is not the long term answer
Getting a LT and RT? yeah, we acquired a LT and RT. One is coming off a major injury and is changing positions, the other is a rookie who wasn't the top ranked tackle in the draft
Solid RB core? No, bunch of old-timers
The list could go on and on about the deficiencies.[/quote]

Well, that's certainly the glass is half empty look at things.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[quote=Mattyk;709927]Well, that's certainly the glass is half empty look at things.[/quote]

How is it glass half-empty when my only opinion is that it is too soon to make any judgments about this team.

Have they played a single down? Hell, have they even put on pads with Shanny at the helm. They've made some decent moves, sure, but we're used to being the offseason champs.

For now, the only concrete thing to be excited about is the fact that the front office seems to be competent, a refreshing departure from the past.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;709929]How is it glass half-empty when my only opinion is that it is too soon to make any judgments about this team.

Have they played a single down? Hell, have they even put on pads with Shanny at the helm. They've made some decent moves, sure, but we're used to being the offseason champs.

For now, the only concrete thing to be excited about is the fact that the front office seems to be competent, a refreshing departure from the past.[/quote]
I don't think Matty's questioning your logic, just stating you seem to be taking a pessimistic stance on the current roster moves.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[quote=Redskin Jim;709931]I don't think Matty's questioning your logic, just stating you seem to be taking a pessimistic stance on the current roster moves.[/quote]

Exactly what I'm saying.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[quote=Monksdown;709900]Or even better. Without Jackson i see us right now as a borderline 9-7 team, wild card contender. With a top notch number 1, such as Jackson, we are borderline 10-6, and we win the division.

[B]That being said, I don't want to pay him, i don't want to trade for him. I think we will need the picks to address QB, RB, WR, and DB over the next 2 years.[/quote][/B]

[B]I agree.[/B]

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

There is nothing on the web about the trade being done.

I don't know about this guy.

Is he really looking at being suspended? does anyone have any info on this?

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[url=http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Wilson-Vincent-Jackson-trial-scheduled-for-April.html]Wilson: Vincent Jackson trial set for April | National Football Post[/url]

Found this. It looks as though he is facing 2 games for getting a DUS ( driving under suspension ). He got pulled by the cops before the Chargers playoff loss to the Jets. OF course since he already has 2 duis under his belt, he had a suspended license for the offenses. This is standard practice for most states when you get a DUI. So this is were the supension is coming from. The guy needs to quit driving and doing stupid shit. You would think guys would learn after the first time.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

Another issue that needs to be raised is how in the hell are we going to be able to sign McNabb, Jackson, and Brown to long term deals?

I would like to keep all of these guys on the team long term not just one year rentals.

Jackson will want a big deal right away. At least what BM got in MIA.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;709951]Another issue that needs to be raised is how in the hell are we going to be able to sign McNabb, Jackson, and Brown to long term deals?

I would like to keep all of these guys on the team long term not just one year rentals.

Jackson will want a big deal right away. At least what BM got in MIA.[/quote]With the labor turmoil in the upcoming offseason, I don't think those contracts are going to be addressed until there is a clearer picture of the new CBA/cap structure.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;709687]No way Big D. Jackson is at least one first rounder for SD to part ways with him.[/quote]

Well then in that case he won't be traded seeing as how no one is going to give up a first round pick for a disgruntled receiver with a looming suspension. On top of that you have the new contract which he wants to be worth more than the Marshall deal. The Chargers don't have enough leverage to warrant a first round pick for Jackson just like the Redskins can't get a first round pick for Haynesworth.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

I wouldn't be surprised to see us add another WR potentially (no inside info here, just guessing) but I doubt it will be Vincent Jackson

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

Trading for Mcnabb and Jammal Brown were good trades because QB & OT are pivotal positions in a football team, our especially considering how our offense stunk last year.

Now VJ is a good pass catcher, making some great leaping end zone TDs but I'm against trading picks since we are 2 short already. We were 4-12 last year, and alot of important positions on the team are up in age like QB, C, MLB, NT etc... and we need picks to replenish depth.

WR is my eyes are more of a luxury than dire need. The addition of McNabb at QB and Brown & Williams into line protection will see our offense improve over last year and make our WRs look good.

I'm sure next year there will be a ton of FA WRs, which we can throw $$$ at without losing picks in the process.

My 2 sene.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

^^ I tend to agree with you Hamo. I think this is just something else to get us fans excited. we can all dream about addin this player and that and how it will effect us in the short term, but I seem to miss the big picture as far as the future at times.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

To build a team over the long haul we need to keep our top picks. Why go for Jackson if we can target a great WR in the first round or two next season that will stay around for awhile for lesser cost to the franchise? Multiple picks for a guy, however good he is, is not warranted. Hamo is right, we have too many holes still to plug in the lines still, plus LB and DB. Fletch might decide to retire after this season or next. LB is going to be a top need for us ASAP. We have already given up a lot for both McNabb and Brown. I like the FA moves, in that they have been smart and have addressed needs, but we still are almost exclusively using FA to build a team.

Re: Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson
 

Let's just wait till next year to draft Julio Jones or Malcolm Floyd.