Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;770270]

The only real priority on the line these days is center. Rabach has to go. Why he hasn't been benched is beyond me but his inability to stop himself from getting pushed back has become a huge liability. Look at this key play against the Bucs. Want to know why Torrain had to go east-west instead of north south. Because Rabach was literally pushed into him.
[IMG]http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad93/CapsXXVI/Rabach.png[/IMG]

So many of Shanahan's best lineman have been late round picks. Late being 4th round and better. We need to realize that fixing the line isn't going to come from binging in the first and second round on offensive lineman but rather identifying talent later in the draft and creating depth all around. Hopefully we've already started with Cook and Capers.[/quote]

this is what blows my mind we can all see it wtf can't he. did they just fast forward this play during films? i mean it's 3rd and 1 from the 2 and rabach gets blown back 4 yards. it's things like this that i just don't understand

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

There is....nothing that the coaching staff does not see or know that the fan base....does. THAT is why they are highly paid coaches...Professionals......experts. For many years have they done this type of work.
BUT in the head of a fan....everything is fixable...now...easy....
My wife does the same thing...re-sod the yard, how hard can it be?
Install a pool in the backyard...how hard can it be? Such is the logic of the fan.
Reverse 10 years of mismanagement and bad personnel decisions in a handfull of games...how hard can it be??????

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

[quote=mlmdub130;770282]this is what blows my mind we can all see it wtf can't he. did they just fast forward this play during films? i mean it's 3rd and 1 from the 2 and rabach gets blown back 4 yards. it's things like this that i just don't understand[/quote]He's a captain.

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

[quote=Hog1;770283]There is....nothing that the coaching staff does not see or know that the fan base....does. THAT is why they are highly paid coaches...Professionals......experts. For many years have they done this type of work.
BUT in the head of a fan....everything is fixable...now...easy....
My wife does the same thing...re-sod the yard, how hard can it be?
Install a pool in the backyard...how hard can it be? Such is the logic of the fan.
Reverse 10 years of mismanagement and bad personnel decisions in a handfull of games...how hard can it be??????[/quote]

But... we play Madden!!

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;770270]Carriker has actually been a nice find. Maybe not dominant but such is the nature of being a 3-4 DE not named Seymour or Smith. Kory L also has been pretty decent and should be a solid starter for the next few years.

I don't think people realize this but building an O-Line is a constant process and in order to feed that process you can't afford to use 1st and 2nd round picks every year to fuel it otherwise you're doing a huge disservice to the rest of your team.

The best lines usually have at most two first day draft picks and then supplement the rest of the line with late round draft picks and free agents. Our inability to find those late round role players has been our Achilles heel, in part because we haven't even tried to draft anyone to begin with.

The only real priority on the line these days is center. Rabach has to go. Why he hasn't been benched is beyond me but his inability to stop himself from getting pushed back has become a huge liability. Look at this key play against the Bucs. Want to know why Torrain had to go east-west instead of north south. Because Rabach was literally pushed into him.
[IMG]http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad93/CapsXXVI/Rabach.png[/IMG]

So many of Shanahan's best lineman have been late round picks. Late being 4th round and better. We need to realize that fixing the line isn't going to come from binging in the first and second round on offensive lineman but rather identifying talent later in the draft and creating depth all around. Hopefully we've already started with Cook and Capers.[/quote]

Actually, people forget that we have two centers already on the roster trying to play guard. Guard is the real need. Mike Williams, for all the upside, is a risky investment every year for that and of course, we have no true left guard. Heyer looked alright, but as we know, the coaching staff may not even bother with it. That said, I agree that the only mid- and high first rounders used on linemen should go to left tackles. The other four OL positions needs to be picked from the 2nd round on down.

And people should get used to slow ass linemen like Carriker. Terrence Cody ran the slowest 40 time in quite a while, but no one gives a shit about his athleticism because he's just supposed eat up double- and triple-teams.

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

[quote=Mattyk;770285]But... we play Madden!![/quote]
Hmmmmm...........forgot about that
I wonder, can you re-sod the yard in Madden?

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

[quote=Hog1;770291]Hmmmmm...........forgot about that
I wonder, can you re-sod the yard in Madden?[/quote]

How hard can it be?

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

SO true...

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

Rebuild ? Not even the alien technology that built the pyramids could rebuild this team. Sell the team Dan and new owner move to DC. I doubt we will win the division for the next 10 years, maybe even longer.

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

So now that we've ended the McNabb era.. How likely is it that we'll be able to get a QB in the draft?

Right now we'd have a 5-way tie for the ~8th pick. Since our season is officially over, I'm actually rooting for us to lose the rest of our games - to get the best shot at a top QB. Okay, as a fan - I still want us to play well each game, but lose on a last-minute crazy fumble or something - so we feel good that we played well.

Looking at the teams, I don't think we have a shot at Locker or Luck. I also don't think Cam Newton will be worth as much hype as he's going to get.

[B]Panthers - need a QB, likely pick Luck[/B]
Bengals - ?probably stick with Palmer?
Lions - have stafford
Denver Broncos - need a QB, Orton sucks
Bills - ?stick with fitzpatrick?
Cowboys - have romo
Arizona Cardinals - need a QB
San Francisco 49ers - ?take a QB

Any thoughts? Let the rebuilding begin..

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

Orton doesn't suck, the Bills will take a QB, and don't be suprised if Cincy does also.

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

Did we make any moves last offseason to make us a better team? We brought in a lot of new guys that haven't helped much. In my opinion, Williams & Banks were the only good moves our FO made. Based upon this season and his time in Tampa, I'm not sure Bruce Allen will do a good job rebuilding.

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

So we've already written off Torain, K Williams, Capers, Cook, Riley, Austin?

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

SmootSmack, how much of an impact do you think Capers and Cook can have next year being on the practice squad almost all of this year? Is it normal for guys who don't make the team their first year to come back and actually have an impact for a team?

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

I dont know if this is common knowledge or not yet, but its offical that for the 2011 draft, New Orleans gets our 3rd and Philadelphia our 4th...

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

Don't forget New Orleans gave back a 5th rounder too.

So as it stands right now draft pics are

1
2
5
5 Saints
6
6/7 Colts (Justin Tryon)
7

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

[quote=drew54;770366]Don't forget New Orleans gave back a 5th rounder too.

So as it stands right now draft pics are

1
2
5
5 Saints
6
6/7 Colts (Justin Tryon)
7[/quote]

add in some picks for AH and DM and it's not looking too bad at all

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

[quote=SmootSmack;770362]So we've already written off Torain, K Williams, Capers, Cook, Riley, Austin?[/quote]

Sorry, I have. Torain & Williams because it seems like you can plug anyone in at RB except for Larry Johnson & Willie Parker and get good results. I think RB is still a position we need to address. If it weren't for Torain's injury problems though. I think he was a good move.

I don't know about Capers & Cook. As bad as they looked in the preseason, they would have to improve drastically. With our poor OL, the fact that they've been stuck on the practice squad doesn't encourage me much either.

Same sort of thing for Austin. As bad as our WR corps has been and he's not on the field?

Still haven't forgiven Riley for costing us that game. I think he'll be a nominal starter at best in this league.

Obviously, you need to give rookies time, but I'm more discouraged about not bringing in quality veterans.

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

[quote=SkinzWin;770364]SmootSmack, how much of an impact do you think Capers and Cook can have next year being on the practice squad almost all of this year? Is it normal for guys who don't make the team their first year to come back and actually have an impact for a team?[/quote]

I like Capers, so so on Cook. Being on the practice squad for a year is not the kiss of death.

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

Orakpo, Landry, Fletcher, T. Williams, Moss, Cooley, and Torain should be the only players that are locked in next year as starters with this team (and Banks on special teams). The rest of the positions are wide open to being replaced with young talent. We really have no area of strength on this team. For the draft I think we should use either the 1st or 2nd round pick on an offensive lineman but besides that choose the best available players regardless of position because they can be starters on this team. Say we draft at #8, what position could we possibly be upset about if they make a selection there? (originally i wanted both 1st/2nd picks on o-lineman but after watching more games we need help EVERYWHERE!)

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

Whoops, wrong thread.

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

Riley's having a strong game...for those of you who have already quit on him

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

I think the thing that frustrates me the most is that when you trade for a guy like McNabb you say, "We can win now." There never should have been that attitude coming into a decade long dumpster fire, that even Joe Gibbs couldn't put out.

Step one, admit you have a problem. Snyder did that last year, and Shanahan is doing it this year.

After watching Rex today, it is more painful that we traded for McNabb.

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

[quote=SmootSmack;770715]Riley's having a strong game...for those of you who have already quit on him[/quote]

If he doesnt make the probowl this year, he's a bust in my book.


In all seriousness, he could probably step in next year and do just as a good a job as Rocky. Cept Rocky probably gonna want 10-13 guaranteed this offseason, I would pass and start Riley or take that 10-13 give it to a better player(s).

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

[quote=drew54;770824]I think the thing that frustrates me the most is that when you trade for a guy like McNabb you say, "We can win now." There never should have been that attitude coming into a decade long dumpster fire, that even Joe Gibbs couldn't put out.

Step one, admit you have a problem. Snyder did that last year, and Shanahan is doing it this year.

After watching Rex today, it is more painful that we traded for McNabb.[/quote]

At the time though, trading for McNabb, rebuilding or not, was thought to be a relatively good deal. Ideally, you'd like to keep your picks; but most everybody viewed Dmac as a guy who knew how to win, wasn't 'over the hill'-type old, and gave the team solid veteran leadership.

Outside of Andy Reid, I'll bet there wasn't anybody in the league who could have envisioned how bad he turned out to be.

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

[quote=Beemnseven;770841]At the time though, trading for McNabb, rebuilding or not, was thought to be a relatively good deal. Ideally, you'd like to keep your picks; but most everybody viewed Dmac as a guy who knew how to win, wasn't 'over the hill'-type old, and gave the team solid veteran leadership.

Outside of Andy Reid, [B]I'll bet there wasn't anybody in the league who could have envisioned how bad he turned out to be.[/B][/quote]

I highly doubt this.

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

Maybe you can pull it up somewhere, but I don't recall a legion of naysayers who definitively said McNabb was done and should retire.

The general consensus seemed to be he would give you another two-three seasons of solid, but not spectacular play. The only question was the price tag.

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

[quote=Beemnseven;770859]Maybe you can pull it up somewhere, but I don't recall a legion of naysayers who definitively said McNabb was done and should retire.

The general consensus seemed to be he would give you another two-three seasons of solid, but not spectacular play. [B]The only question was the price tag.[/B][/quote]

I don't think McNabb is done or that he should retire. I just don't think bringing him HERE was a good idea. Take a team like Arizona or Minnesota who have all the components and would want to win right away, they would have benefited with a McNabb type. And the price tag was too high.

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

[quote=SmootSmack;770715]Riley's having a strong game...for those of you who have already quit on him[/quote]

He definitely looks solid, if he's not in the starting lineup next year opening day I'd be surprised.

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

I would really like to see this OL with Heyer at guard and Montgomery or Lichtensteiger at Center.

I get a feeling that Heyer is the only back up for either tackle position, so they do not want to risk it.

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

[quote=drew54;770366]Don't forget New Orleans gave back a 5th rounder too.

So as it stands right now draft pics are

1
2
5
5 Saints
6
6/7 Colts (Justin Tryon)
7[/quote]

Looking at those picks I'd go this route.

#1 - OL
#2 - WR
#5 - WR
#5 - RB or NT
The last three....best athlete.

Try to sign Joseph Adai or Cedric Bensen as a FA to address RB.
Start Grossman and go fish for another cheap QB (this is assuming McNabb is gone)

Draft a QB #1 in 2012

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

[quote=Beemnseven;770859]The general consensus seemed to be he would give you another two-three seasons of solid, but not spectacular play. The only question was the price tag.[/quote]The other thing I think people were saying is that: what exactly were you getting from McNabb that you weren't already getting in Campbell? A resume? Veteran experience? Something more...tangible, perhaps?

It seemed like the first conclusion we made is that Campbell was a poor fit for the Shanahan system. That could be granted as fact, except that trading for a similar player who is less accurate in McNabb was nonsensical. If you need to go in a different direction at QB, you should actually go in a different direction. The new direction was older.

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

[quote=GTripp0012;770932]The other thing I think people were saying is that: what exactly were you getting from McNabb that you weren't already getting in Campbell? A resume? Veteran experience? Something more...tangible, perhaps?

It seemed like the first conclusion we made is that Campbell was a poor fit for the Shanahan system. That could be granted as fact, except that trading for a similar player who is less accurate in McNabb was nonsensical. If you need to go in a different direction at QB, you should actually go in a different direction. The new direction was older.[/quote]

The reality at the time was many folks were scapegoating Campbell...I didn't have that issue with him...we all new he'd never be amazing...just average.
McNabb clearly had a past of being really good...probowler...winner, etc.
His numbers and win percentage indicated that he should be the best franchise QB the skins would have in a decade or longer....even with a bit of a decline due to age...the bottom line is this.
McNabb clearly underperformed this year...even with the poor oline.
But I don't blame him completely...the insanity of the oline coaching and inabilty to make protection coverage changes made the problems far more obvious....think about Rabach starting ALL YEAR and the inabilty to make adjustments with max protection....remember we have a killer FB and a clearly underutilized power LG that is usually not even eligible to play.

This line is still half way a power rushing team and half zone blocking...there were many times close to the goal line we could have benefited from old school smash mouth blocking schemes...the overcomittment to zone blocking (and the 3-4 btw) just to make a point, has probably lost us a few games.....and it certainly has affected the effectiveness of Donovan McNabb

Is it time to rebuild?
Obviously the answer is YES...
It has been every year since Danny purchased the team
But he is a marketing guru...he wants to make sales based on the yearly dream that the Skins could go on a major playoff run....that is usually justified by an offseason coaching or key player acquisition.

Bottom line...we need an overhaul of at least half the team.
To be honest...I'd trade our roster for about 25 other teams

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;770926]Looking at those picks I'd go this route.

#1 - OL
#2 - WR
#5 - WR
#5 - RB or NT
The last three....best athlete.

Try to sign Joseph Adai or Cedric Bensen as a FA to address RB.
Start Grossman and go fish for another cheap QB (this is assuming McNabb is gone)

Draft a QB #1 in 2012[/quote]

Do you even know who's available in those rounds. Assigning positions to rounds is more prioritizing than anything else. Even then which QB's are going to be available in 2012? Do you really want to be dealing with a rookie QB in 2012 or a 2nd year QB? Unless of course you want to tank the season in 2011 and go for Andrew Luck in which case I approve of your plan.

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

I agree. Besides, were possibly going to have a top 5 pick. We used a top 5 pick on a left tackle last year... And no other ol position is worth taking in the top 5.

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;771035]I agree. Besides, were possibly going to have a top 5 pick. We used a top 5 pick on a left tackle last year... And no other ol position is worth taking in the top 5.[/quote]

Nah, we've already won too many games to have a top 5 pick. We're probably slotted somewhere in the 7-15th pick range. Look at it this way.

Carolina - worst record 2-12
Cincy, Denver - 3-11
Detroit, Buffalo, Arizona - 4-10
Us, San Fran, Houston, Dallas, Cleveland, and Minny(5-8, will be either 5-9 at the end of tonight or 6-10, prob. gonna be 5-9) at 5-9

Now that's already 6 teams ahead of us that have a worse record. 3 of those teams, Detroit, Buffalo, and Arizona have a shot at finishing with the same or worse record than us, but I don't think we'll catch Cincy or Denver, and we have to deal with complicated tiebreaker scenarios for the teams with the same record as us, so in the end we're looking at anywhere from the 7th to 15th pick (Most likely somewhere between 7th and 12th, I just say 15th in case we beat Jacksonville or NY. I doubt we win both though, although it's def. doable. If we do win both, we finish 7-9 and then we're lookin at anywhere between 12th-20th.

I'll just go ahead and make a prediction that we go qb in the first round. It's time to get our own franchise qb and there are plenty of good candidates in this year's draft.

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

McNabb blew up in our face .. i can't even believe it .. WTF .. i mean WTF people, we brought in Donovan Freaking McNabb at age 34, not 43 .. he should have put up 25 td's and 12 ints ... learned the system, not been a fat ass and throwing ground balls all year ... i didn't even pick up on this until i saw a full Rex game, clearly Rex is not the future but it made me clearly see how many under/over throws #5 has had this year ... how about we draft a WR # 1 ... go get our dez bryant ... let Rexy play a year or 2 ... try and find a QB in the 2nd round ..fill up the rest of the draft with OL .. keep Big Will #63 around .. the guy is SOLID .. our running game is showing how good it can be ... Ryan Torrain needs to be healthy .... Portis will be back .. go buy Sproles who gives a shit .... SIGN VINCENT JACKSON ... you put that all together and it's a playoff sandwhich .. no fat albert distraction this off season ... just putting this paragraph together has made me sick ... **** this season ~

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

As part of the rebuild, I would like to see Haslett and Danny Smith replaced as coaches. I would hire Todd Bowles as DC and find another ST coach.

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

[quote=DCtoAZ;771193]McNabb blew up in our face .. i can't even believe it .. WTF .. i mean WTF people, we brought in Donovan Freaking McNabb at age 34, not 43 .. he should have put up 25 td's and 12 ints ... learned the system, not been a fat ass and throwing ground balls all year ... i didn't even pick up on this until i saw a full Rex game, clearly Rex is not the future but it made me clearly see how many under/over throws #5 has had this year ... how about we draft a WR # 1 ... go get our dez bryant ... let Rexy play a year or 2 ... try and find a QB in the 2nd round ..fill up the rest of the draft with OL .. keep Big Will #63 around .. the guy is SOLID .. our running game is showing how good it can be ... Ryan Torrain needs to be healthy .... Portis will be back .. go buy Sproles who gives a shit .... SIGN VINCENT JACKSON ... you put that all together and it's a playoff sandwhich .. no fat albert distraction this off season ... just putting this paragraph together has made me sick ... **** this season ~[/quote]

Nothing to help the defense?

Re: Is it finally time to rebuild??
 

If we can get a decent pick for Cooley we have to do it. He is THE most overrated player on the team. He is the second best tight end on the team and probably the 4th or 5th best tight end in the division. He has dropped key balls all friggin' year.