Re: Andy Reid or Mike Shanahan? Eagles President takes shot at Shanny
 

[quote=skinsfan69;784991]And w/out maybe the best QB of all time what else has he done? What happened when Brian Griese took over? To be honest, I'd rather have Rex Ryan. He seems like a true difference maker.[/quote]

Let me preface this by saying I'm not sold on MS as a good long-term solution as the Skins HC. That said...

Basically all of the multiple Super Bowl winning head coaches have had great players, particularly at QB. Chuck Knoll? Terry Bradhsaw. Bill Walsh? Young/Montana. Jimmy Johnson? Troy Aikman. Bill Belichick? Tom Brady. And yes, Shanahan and Elway. Gibbs was so impressive because he won three with three different, pretty average QBs.

I don't think it's fair to discount Shanny because of Elway. I also don't think any of the coaches I mentioned above would have had the same success without those QBs, and vice versa.

Re: Andy Reid or Mike Shanahan? Eagles President takes shot at Shanny
 

[quote=skinsfan69;784991]And w/out maybe the best QB of all time what else has he done? What happened when Brian Griese took over? To be honest, I'd rather have Rex Ryan. He seems like a true difference maker.[/quote]


John Elway couldn't win a Super Bowl without Mike Shanahan.

Look it up.

Re: Andy Reid or Mike Shanahan? Eagles President takes shot at Shanny
 

[quote=GMScud;785084]Let me preface this by saying I'm not sold on MS as a good long-term solution as the Skins HC. That said...

Basically all of the multiple Super Bowl winning head coaches have had great players, particularly at QB. Chuck Knoll? Terry Bradhsaw. Bill Walsh? Young/Montana. Jimmy Johnson? Troy Aikman. Bill Belichick? Tom Brady. And yes, Shanahan and Elway. Gibbs was so impressive because he won three with three different, pretty average QBs.

I don't think it's fair to discount Shanny because of Elway. I also don't think any of the coaches I mentioned above would have had the same success without those QBs, and vice versa.[/quote]

All those coaches had great drafts, and from those drafts they built strong teams. It wasn't just about the QB's. So with that being said, let's hope that the guy in charge doesn't throw away picks for an aging inaccurate QB and injured 29 year old tackle. You didn't see any of those guys above doing what Shanahan did. Did you?

Re: Andy Reid or Mike Shanahan? Eagles President takes shot at Shanny
 

So none of those other SB winning coaches made a bad personnel move or two along the way? All their drafts were perfect?

Re: Andy Reid or Mike Shanahan? Eagles President takes shot at Shanny
 

[quote=Buster;785089]John Elway couldn't win a Super Bowl without Mike Shanahan.

Look it up.[/quote]

Or.... John Elway didn't win a SB w/ out Terrell Davis. Elway took some pretty average teams to 3 straight SB's. That will not be done again. When Denver got better players around him is when they won. Part of that was Shanahan getting good players and coaching them up. He deserves credit for that. I'm saying Shanahna isn't a good coach cause he is, or was.... all I'm saying is he didn't do a good job year one.

Re: Andy Reid or Mike Shanahan? Eagles President takes shot at Shanny
 

[quote=skinsfan69;785091]All those coaches had great drafts, and from those drafts they built strong teams. It wasn't just about the QB's. So with that being said, let's hope that the guy in charge doesn't throw away picks for an aging inaccurate QB and injured 29 year old tackle. You didn't see any of those guys above doing what Shanahan did. Did you?[/quote]

Like I said, I'm not sold on Shanny. But he won multiple Super Bowls with a great QB, just like those other coaches.

All those other coaches also had GM's drafting for them.

My point was it's not really fair to take anything away from Shanny because he had Elway. To do so, you'd have to say the same for those other coaches. Shanahan has his shortcomings to be sure, but he still hoisted the Lombardi trophy twice.

I worry a lot more about him as the head of personnel than I do as a HC.

Re: Andy Reid or Mike Shanahan? Eagles President takes shot at Shanny
 

[quote=Mattyk;785096]So none of those other SB winning coaches made a bad personnel move or two along the way? All their drafts were perfect?[/quote]

Of course not. But as I said, they didn't throw away draft picks on players past their prime. Some of them acquried picks, like Jimmie Johnson did. This is a rebuilding project, and that's why I don't think Shanahan is the right man for the job.

Re: Andy Reid or Mike Shanahan? Eagles President takes shot at Shanny
 

I guess MS never had to rebuild in 14 years in Denver.

Re: Andy Reid or Mike Shanahan? Eagles President takes shot at Shanny
 

[quote=skinsfan69;785101]Of course not. But as I said, they didn't throw away draft picks on players past their prime. Some of them acquried picks, like Jimmie Johnson did. This is a rebuilding project, and that's why I don't think Shanahan is the right man for the job.[/quote]

On the issue of throwing away picks, or rather making moves that as of now look pretty bad, i,e. McNabb, I'm more concerned w/the possibility that Allen & Shan's job is being impacted by Snyder. I'm not theorizing once again that Snyder is "meddling" per se, but I think it would be realistic & plausible that upon their hiring the danny told Allen & Shan that he would step back but he felt the team could be competitive if a good qb was acquired. So, they made that happen.

Now that it's obvious that this team needs so much more, 'rebuilding' can begin. In a counterintuitive way, that 1 trade may have been necessary to truly change things. Look at it as a last-ditch attempt to win now, the new regime had to see if they could do it.

It didn't work out, regardless of who's responsible, and now it's time to move on. I give Shanahan credit at least for not being stuck on that trade & other draft picks like DT. He's made it clear that he's going to put the best guys out there regardless of draft status, salary, etc.

Re: Andy Reid or Mike Shanahan? Eagles President takes shot at Shanny
 

I still like the Jammal Brown trade. Think it was a bit of a coup, and at 29/30 don't see him as being an old veteran. You can check my feelings on McNabb from the threads about the trade. But, and this is how I will view it going forward, Shanahan wanted to clear the baggage and the air of Redskin Park. That wasn't going to happen as long as JC was on this team, and no one else we had was going to be anywhere near as capable as JC. So, Shanahan and BA take a shot, and do reset. Was DM exactly who we thought he was, for me yes. Will we survive, and start building picks going forward. I like to think so. I like that next year we have all our picks plus the Raiders 4th rounder. So again, if we win anything last year, or next year GREAT, but by year 3 I would expect the Skins to be consistent challengers for the Division and Conference. Let's hope our collective hearts can wait that long!

Re: Andy Reid or Mike Shanahan? Eagles President takes shot at Shanny
 

[quote=Mattyk;785104]I guess MS never had to rebuild in 14 years in Denver.[/quote]

Lol I guess not.. Some folks just don't know WTF their saying sometimes.

Re: Andy Reid or Mike Shanahan? Eagles President takes shot at Shanny
 

[quote=Mattyk;785104]I guess MS never had to rebuild in 14 years in Denver.[/quote]

I don't recall him taking over a Denver team that was old, aging and 4-12. Do you?

Re: Andy Reid or Mike Shanahan? Eagles President takes shot at Shanny
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;785114]I still like the Jammal Brown trade. Think it was a bit of a coup, and at 29/30 don't see him as being an old veteran. You can check my feelings on McNabb from the threads about the trade. But, and this is how I will view it going forward, Shanahan wanted to clear the baggage and the air of Redskin Park. That wasn't going to happen as long as JC was on this team, and no one else we had was going to be anywhere near as capable as JC. So, Shanahan and BA take a shot, and do reset. Was DM exactly who we thought he was, for me yes. Will we survive, and start building picks going forward. I like to think so. [B]I like that next year we have all our picks plus the Raiders 4th rounder.[/B] So again, if we win anything last year, or next year GREAT, but by year 3 I would expect the Skins to be consistent challengers for the Division and Conference. Let's hope our collective hearts can wait that long![/quote]

You mean 2012? Next year I believe we are missing a 3rd and 4th rounder but have a extra picks later on.

Re: Andy Reid or Mike Shanahan? Eagles President takes shot at Shanny
 

[quote=skinsfan69;785098]Or.... John Elway didn't win a SB w/ out Terrell Davis. Elway took some pretty average teams to 3 straight SB's. That will not be done again. When Denver got better players around him is when they won. Part of that was Shanahan getting good players and coaching them up. He deserves credit for that. I'm saying Shanahna isn't a good coach cause he is, or was.... all I'm saying is he didn't do a good job year one.[/quote]

Maybe Terrell Davis would not have been so successful without Shanahan's great running scheme?

We could go back and forth for days.

Re: Andy Reid or Mike Shanahan? Eagles President takes shot at Shanny
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;785114]I still like the Jammal Brown trade. Think it was a bit of a coup, and at 29/30 don't see him as being an old veteran. You can check my feelings on McNabb from the threads about the trade. But, and this is how I will view it going forward, Shanahan wanted to clear the baggage and the air of Redskin Park. That wasn't going to happen as long as JC was on this team, and no one else we had was going to be anywhere near as capable as JC. So, Shanahan and BA take a shot, and do reset. Was DM exactly who we thought he was, for me yes. Will we survive, and start building picks going forward. I like to think so. I like that next year we have all our picks plus the Raiders 4th rounder. So again, if we win anything last year, or next year GREAT, but by year 3 I would expect the Skins to be consistent challengers for the Division and Conference. Let's hope our collective hearts can wait that long![/quote]

Quite reasonable. I like your take on J. Brown too. Actually, the J. Brown deal was part of the McNabb trade essentially.

Re: Andy Reid or Mike Shanahan? Eagles President takes shot at Shanny
 

We took on Brown knowing he wasn't 100% and wasn't likely to be for the entire season. He should be back to 100% this year though. Too early to knock that deal.

Re: Andy Reid or Mike Shanahan? Eagles President takes shot at Shanny
 

[quote=skinsfan69;785120]I don't recall him taking over a Denver team that was old, aging and 4-12. Do you?[/quote]

They had some down years. In 14 years that roster turned over several times and Shanahan was the one making the moves to keep them competitive.

Re: Andy Reid or Mike Shanahan? Eagles President takes shot at Shanny
 

[quote=skinsfan69;785121]You mean 2012? Next year I believe we are missing a 3rd and 4th rounder but have a extra picks later on.[/quote]

Yes, 2012 is next year. This year's draft we are missing a 3rd and 4th rounder, with extra(s) later on.

Re: Andy Reid or Mike Shanahan? Eagles President takes shot at Shanny
 

[quote=Buster;785124]Maybe Terrell Davis would not have been so successful without Shanahan's great running scheme?

We could go back and forth for days.[/quote]

We could. As I said, Shanahan was a good coach back then. So far with us, I don't think he's been very good. He needs time to get it right and he deserves that time. I just don't think he's the right guy for this job.

Re: Andy Reid or Mike Shanahan? Eagles President takes shot at Shanny
 

[quote=Mattyk;785130]They had some down years. In 14 years that roster turned over several times and Shanahan was the one making the moves to keep them competitive.[/quote]

This