Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

[quote=NC_Skins;805661]?? You haven't backed up yours either.




How do you know this for a fact? You have the numbers? For somebody claiming to know something as fact, you have shown very little evidence. I bet you quite a few universities can as well. West Virginia, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, USF, and I can roll on down the list of BCS conferences and list their teams as well.




Where did this bullshit come from? Are they talking about all three divisions? (I,II,III??) Can you get something more credible?


Here you go.

[url=http://businessofcollegesports.com/2011/04/26/how-profitable-is-football-in-conference-usa/]How Profitable is Football in Conference USA? «[/url]

Take in consideration, this is the lowly Conference USA.[/quote]My case is rested. I will read whatever links you post that suggest the contrary, but this topic was opened, you were called out, and was quickly and emphatically shut. You were wrong, and you have nowhere to go except backwards.

Points that are based solely on ones own "expertise" typically end up making the point maker look as foolish as you.

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

[quote=GTripp0012;805668]My case is rested. I will read whatever links you post that suggest the contrary, but this topic was opened, you were called out, and was quickly and emphatically shut. You were wrong, and you have nowhere to go except backwards.

Points that are based solely on ones own "expertise" typically end up making the point maker look as foolish as you.[/quote]

Are you high?...lol What the hell are you even talking about? What was I called out on that I was quicky and emphatically shut? (or wrong for that matter?)

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

[quote=NC_Skins;805669]Are you high?...lol What the hell are you even talking about? What was I called out on that I was quicky and emphatically shut? (or wrong for that matter?)[/quote]The fact that the vast majority of football programs don't turn profits is easily provable, and was proven with the technical expertise of a Google search. This falls within the domain of common knowledge, since the 10 sources that come up first all say basically the same thing. It's not worth debating anyone who doesn't immediately accept fact as fact.

[url=http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1DVCK_enUS375US375&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=percentage+of+college+football+programs+that+lose+money]percentage of college football programs that lose money - Google Search[/url]

There are, of course, programs that do turn actual, real profits without having to fudge what is being included in revenues and expenses to do so. I was not surprised to see Texas, Notre Dame, and Penn State amongst the schools making a fortune off their program. I was surprised to see UCF there as well. That's all I'm saying.

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

[quote=GTripp0012;805671]There are, of course, programs that do turn actual, real profits without having to fudge what is being included in revenues and expenses to do so. I was not surprised to see Texas, Notre Dame, and Penn State amongst the schools making a fortune off their program. [B]I was surprised to see UCF there as well.[/B] That's all I'm saying.[/quote]
From the link:
[URL="http://businessofcollegesports.com/2011/05/03/how-much-of-a-drain-are-other-sports/"]How Much of a Drain are “Other Sports” «[/URL]

"As you can see, UCF turns a profit when it comes to strictly viewing team revenues and expenses thanks to profits from football and men’s basketball. This is before you add in their $17.5 million in student fees. However, it’s also before you add in costs like coaches salaries ($5.9m), recruiting ($559k), gameday operating expenses ($3.6m) and student aid ($5.7m). With those expenses included, it takes student fees, alumni contributions and other revenue from sources like licensing and advertising to allow UCF to turn an overall profit in the athletic department."

We would need to know the expenses specifically for football for coaches salaries, recruiting, gameday expenses, and student aid to determine if the football program at UCF is turning a stand-alone profit.

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

[quote=GTripp0012;805671]The fact that the vast majority of football programs don't turn profits is easily provable, and was proven with the technical expertise of a Google search. This falls within the domain of common knowledge, since the 10 sources that come up first all say basically the same thing. It's not worth debating anyone who doesn't immediately accept fact as fact.

[url=http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1DVCK_enUS375US375&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=percentage+of+college+football+programs+that+lose+money]percentage of college football programs that lose money - Google Search[/url][/quote]

I'm so confused and I think you are to. You've manage to take this quote of mine.

[quote] Also, people don't realize that the money that college football (or basketball) brings in supports all the other athletic programs at a school.[/quote]

....and turn it into I said all football programs made a profit and sponsored their other programs in it and this applied across the board to Division I,II, and III.

Wow. Not sure who is worse at reading. You or SBXVII.


THEN you go on to say the following before doing any research.

[quote]I would be willing to bet that at a fine institution such as East Carolina, football, at very best, is self sustaining from a financial perspective.....so it certainly wouldn't shock me if their football program (along with the rest of C-USA) are running in the red.[/quote]

As noted, our AD made 1.6 million last year in profit.
[url=http://businessofcollegesports.com/2011/04/26/how-profitable-is-football-in-conference-usa/]How Profitable is Football in Conference USA? «[/url]

So about that "bet"?


I'm not sure why you are claiming something that I have not said nor implied. Hell, the "google link" you put up there doesn't even show crap about what you are speaking about. A blog from some no name guy who doesn't even reference his stats? Are you serious?

If you are going to argue a point, at least make sure you are arguing the same point. It's obvious you aren't.


On to your point. How many of these schools in any of these conferences do you think lose money in college football? The below are the conferences that are in the division I of NCAA which we are talking about.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_I_%28NCAA%29#Football_Bowl_Subdivisi]Division I (NCAA) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;805645]I would argue that Ohio St. is nowhere near a "Pro Style" offense.

While Pryor was padding his numbers against; Marshall, Ohio, E. Michigan and the middle/bottom of the Big Ten how did he do against competitive teams:
Wisconsin: 14-28 156yds 50% Comp 0 TD 1 INT
Miami: 12-27 233yds 44% Comp 1 TD 0 INT
Iowa: 18-33 195yds 54.5% Comp 1 TD 2 INT
Arkansas: He played well 14-25 221yds 56% Comp 2 TD 0 INT

Keep in mind he won't be able to put up the run numbers he did in the NCAA at the NFL level. Pryor is not, and I don't expect will develop into, a proficient passer at the NFL level. Would I risk a sixth rounder on him as an "athlete", yes. Projected as a full-time QB, no way.[/quote]I thought I was in the wrong thread for a second there with all the NCAA football programs revenue talk, what happened? Anyway back to Mr.Pryor.

You can disagree that Ohio State was a pro-style offense, but that means venturing into the definition of a pro-style offense, we can just agree to disagree on that point then, although I think its fairly obvious that Ohio State is a pro-style offense especially considering the number of college teams running the spread or spread variants.

About the numbers, you can take most any QB and pick their worst games and do the same thing you did above.

Did Pryor have some bad games? Sure. But, most college prospects are gonna have some bad games.

You make no mention of his physical skillset and that is a major factor in how QB prospects are judged.

I'm not into the prediction business so I'm not gonna guess wether Pryor develops or not.
But, Pryor does have an NFL skillset, and if you could get him for a 6th round pick , which isn't considered much different then an UDFA then that would be great value in my book.

The question the OP didn't ask is: would Pryor be a fit for Kyle's offense?
The answer to that question imo is no, now in Mike's offense?

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

The difference between "Kyle's offense" and "Mike's offense" is negligible at best and non-existent at worst, especially since "Kubiak's offense", which is what Kyle learned, is the same damned offense as the one he ran with Mike for years in Denver.

I think we as fans get caught up too often and just trying to get a quarterback, instead of trying to find [i]the right quarterback[/i].

If Mike doesn't feel like he can't be the guy, or can't turn into the guy very shortly, then no, he's not worth drafting or "taking a flyer on". If all he's ever going to be is a back-up quarterback...back-up quarterbacks are easy to find.

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

[quote=NLC1054;805718]The difference between "Kyle's offense" and "Mike's offense" is negligible at best and non-existent at worst, especially since "Kubiak's offense", which is what Kyle learned, is the same damned offense as the one he ran with Mike for years in Denver.[/quote]True they're technically the same offense its also the same offense that Heimdinger ran with the Titans.

Holmgren, McCarthy, Reid and Shanahan all come from the same offense (Bill Walsh) and were all Bill Walsh assistants.

But, you wouldn't say the all run the same offense.

Heimdinger was a longtime OC and assistant HC for Mike Shanahan so technically he and Kyle's run the same offense but would you say that Kyle and Heimdinger offense are the same? I wouldn't.

The playcalling and gameplanning focus within a particular offense is what gives coaches their identity.

Having been a huge fan of Mike Shanahan's Denver WCO, I can say that Kyle's offense is very different.

Here are some easy examples of the difference between Mike and Kyle:

o Pass-run ratio:
Mike is a [I][B]career [/B][/I]50/50; Kyle career is 60/40.

o Mike is playaction(boot/swap) focus with movement passes (sprint out, dash out, sprint out).
Mike's offense results in simplified QB reads often time half field Hi-Lo reads.

Kyle is more straight drop back rhythm passing and is very dependent upon a QB decision making and reading out a full field progression.

The playcalling focus within the offense requires Mike and Kyle QBs to have different skillsets.
One of the benefits of Kyle's style is its less dependent upon a QB with elite physical skills.
[quote=NLC1054;805718]If Mike doesn't feel like he can't be the guy, or can't turn into the guy very shortly, then no, he's not worth drafting or "taking a flyer on". If all he's ever going to be is a back-up quarterback...back-up quarterbacks are easy to find.[/quote]Also, typically speaking QB 'gurus' often take a 'flyer' on at least 1 QB every draft wether they have a starter or not.

And there is value in finding a back-up, and no they're not easy to find.
There is value in drafting a QB late and developing them into a viable QB for the drafting team or as trade bait.

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

if i was going to the supplemental id go after the OL from ohio state

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

Big-time college sports is a cess pool. No way will Pryor play QB as a pro maybe someone will take a flyer on him in hope that he will play TE or WR but the Skins dont need to take on a project like this.

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

Well, looks like it'll be supplemental draft for Pryor:

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6636768]Attorney: Pryor won't return for senior season - ESPN[/url]

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

If there even is a supplemental draft. I wonder at what point they'll decide that

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

I'm watching the 6pm SportsCenter right now, and the bottom line just said the supplemental draft will be help in July regardless of the lockout.

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

SportsCenter?! Bah...what do they know?

That's interesting because last I heard there was a lot of debate as to whether there would be one but I guess I missed the memo that said it was definitely on.

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;806264]SportsCenter?! Bah...what do they know?

That's interesting because last I heard there was a lot of debate as to whether there would be one but I guess I missed the memo that said it was definitely on.[/quote]

Well maybe it was a typo, because now the bottom line doesnt mention it as a certainty.

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

The way I understand this upcoming supplemental draft was part of the last CBA.
But the supplemental draft is contingent upon players actually declaring for the draft; which as far as I know has yet to happen.


[YT]aQRgIuYBamA[/YT]

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

If they can have the NFL draft, than why couldn't they have the supplemental draft? What exactly would prevent them from having this? Surely not the lockout.

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

The draft was held as a provision of the expired cba that allowed for it explicitly. No such provision exists for a supplemtal draft.

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6637444]Ohio State Buckeyes quarterback Terrelle Pryor made up to $40,000 signing memorabilia - ESPN[/url]

Getting ugly in Columbus. Kid took from 20-40K from signings? Nobody knew?...lol Yeah right. If USC got slammed for basically 2 players, imagine what's going to happen here. Then again, the NCAA is bias.

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

[quote=NC_Skins;806311][URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6637444"]Ohio State Buckeyes quarterback Terrelle Pryor made up to $40,000 signing memorabilia - ESPN[/URL]

Getting ugly in Columbus. Kid took from 20-40K from signings? Nobody knew?...lol Yeah right. If USC got slammed for basically 2 players, imagine what's going to happen here. Then again, the NCAA is bias.[/quote]

An arrogant kid broke the rules to make money and live lavishly? I didn't see that coming.

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

“The pure passing skills that you need aren’t there yet,” Kiper said. “Will they be down the road with some tutelage from a quarterback coach in the NFL? Maybe.”

Kiper said he thinks some team will spend a 2012 pick on Pryor to acquire him in the supplemental draft, but it’s tough to guess how high a pick.

“You’re thinking at best third or fourth round,” Kiper said. “Then you talk to some people who say sixth or seventh round.”

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;806395]“The pure passing skills that you need aren’t there yet,” Kiper said. “Will they be down the road with some tutelage from a quarterback coach in the NFL? Maybe.”

Kiper said he thinks some team will spend a 2012 pick on Pryor to acquire him in the supplemental draft, but it’s tough to guess how high a pick.

“You’re thinking at best third or fourth round,” Kiper said. “Then you talk to some people who say sixth or seventh round.”[/quote]


Hell, even Matt Millen gave him a 4-7 round grade...lol

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

[quote=NC_Skins;806406]Hell, even Matt Millen gave him a 4-7 round grade...lol[/quote]

ESPN really needs to make a Vinny and Millen show.

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;806408]ESPN really needs to make a Vinny and Millen show.[/quote]

To bad this title is already taken. It would have fit perfect.


[IMG]http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a380/clone34/dumb-and-dumber-001.jpg[/IMG]

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

I just wonder if Pryor would make a better WR than a QB in the NFL. He's a basketball player who could achieve creditability as a WR.

[url=http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/15212931/pass-catching-might-be-pryors-only-path-to-nfl-success]Pass catching might be Pryor's only path to NFL success - NFL - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com[/url]

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

[quote=mooby;806359]An arrogant kid broke the rules to make money and live lavishly? I didn't see that coming.[/quote]

A kid broke a rule that is pretty stupid to begin with.

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;806461]A kid broke a rule that is pretty stupid to begin with.[/quote]

Actually it's not. The same rules apply across the board and it's there for a reason.

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

[quote=NC_Skins;806465]Actually it's not. The same rules apply across the board and it's there for a reason.[/quote]

Actually it is. They can make all this money off of me and I can't even get a little of it? If people wanna pay me for my signature or wanna pay me to come to their school over another school then who the f**k are you to tell me I can't?

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

Even if a rule is stupid, it's a rule to be obeyed. You can talk about having it overturned, sure, but don't go and break it unless you're willing to deal with the consequences.

Speaking of not-so-smart things, how about throwing away potential millions of dollars due to being a higher round draft pick for an easy $40k a year? THAT seems like the big bungle on this one.

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;806472]Actually it is. They can make all this money off of me and I can't even get a little of it? If people wanna pay me for my signature or wanna pay me to come to their school over another school then who the f**k are you to tell me I can't?[/quote]

I understand the big schools making money without having to pay the athletes. However in the case of college football you only have 57% of schools turning a profit off football. Furthermore only 12% of all collegiate athletic programs are in fact profitable. So if you start paying football players you've opened the floodgates for every other sport the overwhelming majority of which are not profitable.

This would lead to programs cutting out sports all together and kids not getting a chance to earn a scholarship because a scholarship isn't good enough for a bunch of primma donnas that don't want to wait for the NFL or NBA.

Granted something should be done to further help the kids that come from poor backgrounds, however I can't support paying colleigate athletes across the board as it simply sets a terrible precedent. Trust me, anyone thats gotten the bill for a college education knows it's not free. These kids aren't walking away empty handed, except for the ones that would rather party then go to class.

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

[quote=WestCoastSkinsFan;806474]Even if a rule is stupid, it's a rule to be obeyed. You can talk about having it overturned, sure, but don't go and break it unless you're willing to deal with the consequences.

Speaking of not-so-smart things, how about throwing away potential millions of dollars due to being a higher round draft pick for an easy $40k a year? THAT seems like the big bungle on this one.[/quote]

Preach

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;806472] If people wanna pay me for my signature or wanna pay me to come to their school over another school then who the f**k are you to tell me I can't?[/quote]

The same people who are allowing you to play football. You have two options.

1) Play football and abide by rules
2) Don't play football


At some point, I"ll start a thread on the merits of paying players and you'll see where I'm coming from.

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

[quote=30gut;805710]You can disagree that Ohio State was a pro-style offense, but that means venturing into the definition of a pro-style offense, we can just agree to disagree on that point then, although I think its fairly obvious that Ohio State is a pro-style offense especially considering the number of college teams running the spread or spread variants.[/quote]I get your point about pro-style vs. spread and agree. What I consider pro-style would be ND (w/Weis), Stanford, USC, etc. I view their passing games as more advanced/elaborate. Ohio St., Wisconsin, LSU, they're more smack you in the mouth and beat you over the top with a blazing WR off play-action.

Your top level QBs in college may have a bad game here or there, but generally not 3 out of 12 in a season. Normally with the guys that transition successfully to the NFL may not light up the scoreboard against a top flight D, but their numbers aren't consistently bad against those teams either.

[quote]You make no mention of his physical skillset and that is a major factor in how QB prospects are judged.

I'm not into the prediction business so I'm not gonna guess wether Pryor develops or not.
But, Pryor does have an NFL skillset, and if you could get him for a 6th round pick , which isn't considered much different then an UDFA then that would be great value in my book.[/quote]No question he's a tremendous athlete with great size, but I don't think he'll transition to the QB spot in the NFL. I do agree with you on the 6th rounder though, if that's all it takes, why not.

[quote]The question the OP didn't ask is: would Pryor be a fit for Kyle's offense? The answer to that question imo is no[/quote]agree

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

I just watched the Big Ten Channel Ohio St vs Wisconsin replay football game. TP has a little Vince Young in his game. may not be the most accurate qb but just wins games. I also think he had a weak WR corp this past season at Ohio St. I like his size and his mobility and I think he can get better with a full time QB coach. I say he is a low risk high reward for a 4th-5th rd supplemental draft pick. If not TP then make a move when the Titans release VY. All VY does is win games.

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

Question for the supp. draft, if he's eligible, is what will Al Davis bid? I think he offers a 3rd.

Now that I think of it, what happens if there's a supplemental draft, but then the new cba doesn't include a draft?

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;806477]I understand the big schools making money without having to pay the athletes. However in the case of college football you only have 57% of schools turning a profit off football. Furthermore only 12% of all collegiate athletic programs are in fact profitable. So if you start paying football players you've opened the floodgates for every other sport the overwhelming majority of which are not profitable.

This would lead to programs cutting out sports all together and kids not getting a chance to earn a scholarship because a scholarship isn't good enough for a bunch of primma donnas that don't want to wait for the NFL or NBA.

[B]Granted something should be done to further help the kids that come from poor backgrounds, however I can't support paying colleigate athletes across the board as it simply sets a terrible precedent. Trust me, anyone thats gotten the bill for a college education knows it's not free. These kids aren't walking away empty handed, except for the ones that would rather party then go to class[/B].[/quote]

Well said. I would add that some of these guys (e.g., see the Fab 5 movie on espn) just don't understand the concept of "amateur" or apprenticeship work. They are not the only people on campus that work hard but don't reap financial rewards in the present.

Top universities are full of 6 figure salary profs that have a lot of research & even classroom teaching done by their grad. assistants. I know a lot of grad assistants are getting paid a very small salary, but that usually is factored into part of their tuition/cost of living.

With these grad students, just as w/big time college athletes, the payoff is the education, experience & exposure they get that leads to gainful employment.

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

Let's just say that there is no supplemental draft. Is it likely that Pryor could enter camp as an UDFA? If you think about it, it could benefit this ass-clown hand pick his destination. With that in mind, there would be zero chance he signs for any position but QB.

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

Some of these NCAA rules make about as much sense as McDonalds charging me 25 cents for a cup of water when a cup of ice is free.

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;806804]Some of these NCAA rules make about as much sense as McDonalds charging me 25 cents for a cup of water when a cup of ice is free.[/quote]

You're talking about a situation designed to make the top 1% of athletes happy. Again you start paying athletes and suddenly other sports that provide kids with scholarships and educations get cut. Swimming, softball, soccer, tennis. Schools would directly be attempting to buy championships

Many schools would be forced to cut a lot of these sports that fail to generate revenue so they could pay their football and male basketball players. In fact many football programs across the country would be dropped all together seeing as how only 57% generate revenue. Tuition is already high enough, why should everyone else pay for these kids to drive around in cars and paint their bodies with tatoos when they're already getting paid to get an education?

Re: If Pryor entered the supplemental draft would you pick him.
 

[quote=BuckSkin;806760]Let's just say that there is no supplemental draft. Is it likely that Pryor could enter camp as an UDFA? If you think about it, it could benefit this ass-clown hand pick his destination. With that in mind, there would be zero chance he signs for any position but QB.[/quote]Well based on the language of the new CBA, anything is possible. But the status quo is that he'd have to wait for the 2012 draft to go by to sign an NFL contract.