Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

Now it's getting to crunch time for both sides. Up until now, only really mattered to fans

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=rypper11;805766]Me either. I watched the Detroit - Skins game on DTV. The only thing I don't like is when they are being shown on the local channels instead of the 700 channels. Then, sometimes, the 4pm kickoff isn't shown because the 1pm game is running over. I think I've missed a few dozen plays in the past 13 years because of that.[/quote]

I thought they moved the the 4pm games to 4:15 a few years back to help avoid the run over.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

I would not be surprised to see a deal in the next 48 hours. But that's largely based on speculation

When it happens, we'll start a new thread

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=SmootSmack;806987]I would not be surprised to see a deal in the next 48 hours. But that's largely based on speculation

When it happens, we'll start a new thread[/quote]

I personally CAN'T WAIT!

Will free agency start pretty much immediately? The flood of activity is going to be so awesome once the new deal is inked.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

I don't know how it will all play out. Or even if there actually will be a deal this week.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

I was starting to enjoy the lockout. Damn.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=SmootSmack;806987]I would not be surprised to see a deal in the next 48 hours. But that's largely based on speculation

When it happens, we'll start a new thread[/quote]

As much as I'd LOVE that, I think two more weeks is the timeframe only because the owners meetings on June 21-22 will be where the deal will live or die. I think they can come to a framework agreement this week but won't actually do anything until next week because of leaks and lawyers.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=mredskins;806993]I was starting to enjoy the lockout. Damn.[/quote]

How dare you, sir.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=Paintrain;806994]As much as I'd LOVE that, I think two more weeks is the timeframe only because the owners meetings on June 21-22 will be where the deal will live or die. I think they can come to a framework agreement this week but won't actually do anything until next week because of leaks and lawyers.[/quote]

Good call.

But if there is an agreement in a week or two, after the owner's meetings, that will be fine.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=SmootSmack;806983]Now it's getting to crunch time for both sides. Up until now, only really mattered to fans[/quote]

Why is now crunch time?

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[quote=firstdown;807000]Why is now crunch time?[/quote]

because in order to get "normal" FA, rookies signed, Training camp and a full schedule, something needs to happen. Add in pending court rulings from both Doty and the 8th District, both sides have a lot riding on getting a deal on soon.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;807002]because in order to get "normal" FA, rookies signed, Training camp and a full schedule, something needs to happen. Add in pending court rulings from both Doty and the 8th District, both sides have a lot riding on getting a deal on soon.[/quote]

I get the signing and free agent stuff I have not kept up on what the courts have ruled. Can that be explained in a sentence or two? If not I guess i'll do some reading next time I'm sitting on hold.

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Doty has a pending ruling that will award some unknown sum to the players (up to about $3billion). 8th District has a pending ruling that could make the lockout permanent and basically eliminate the players leverage of the anti-trust lawsuit.

Obviously simplified for the single sentence requirement, but both sides have a big incentive not to let the other shoe fall on either of these rulings.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=Paintrain;806994]As much as I'd LOVE that, I think two more weeks is the timeframe only because the owners meetings on June 21-22 will be where the deal will live or die. I think they can come to a framework agreement this week but won't actually do anything until next week because of leaks and lawyers.[/quote]

I should have specified that I don't think any finalized deal would be announced within the next 48 hours, but that the basic framework of a deal would be agreed upon.

Who knows for sure though

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

Rumors breaking out that there's some increased friction now that the lawyers are involved again...

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=NLC1054;807018]Rumors breaking out that there's some increased friction now that the lawyers are involved again...[/quote]


....from where?What lawyers?

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=CancunCantinaBartender;805738]We dropped DirecTV after the 2009 season because their offer of "every game" was not fulfilled. Redskins vs. Detroit was not shown (not a game a fan wanted to see with the Redskins losing). When we called to complain and find out why it was not being broadcast, we were told because the game was blacked out in Detroit because there was not a sellout. Because DirecTV had no way to isolate that market, they were forced to not show the game at all. Since we are out of the DC market the game was not shown at all.[/quote]I got that game on Direct TV and I live in the Detroit local market, although outside the NFL-mandated blackout radius around Ford Field of 70 miles.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;807012]Doty has a pending ruling that will award some unknown sum to the players (up to about $3billion). 8th District has a pending ruling that could make the lockout permanent and basically eliminate the players leverage of the anti-trust lawsuit.

Obviously simplified for the single sentence requirement, but both sides have a big incentive not to let the other shoe fall on either of these rulings.[/quote]
Thank you. Now I'm up to speed with everything going on. I don't get how making the lockout permanent eliminates the players leverage. Its not like if they show up to the stadium things will go back to normal or is the term Lockout not that?

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=firstdown;807023]Thank you. Now I'm up to speed with everything going on. I don't get how making the lockout permanent eliminates the players leverage. Its not like if they show up to the stadium things will go back to normal or is the term Lockout not that?[/quote]

The players anti-trust suit lawsuit is a giant stick hanging over the owners head, but it takes a long time for lawsuits to work their way through the legal system (as we see with these expedited cases). If the owners are given the ok to lockout the players for the year it is much harder for the players to stay together if they are missing game checks so the threat of a finding in the anti-trust suit diminishes greatly.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=Giantone;807019]....from where?What lawyers?[/quote]

[url=http://twitter.com/#!/Rich_Tandler/status/80715576674238464]Per Rich Tandler, who was retweeting it...[/url]

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

I don't know. I think it's really close

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;807012]Doty has a pending ruling that will award some unknown sum to the players (up to about $3billion). 8th District has a pending ruling that could make the lockout permanent and basically eliminate the players leverage of the anti-trust lawsuit.

Obviously simplified for the single sentence requirement, but both sides have a big incentive not to let the other shoe fall on either of these rulings.[/quote]

This kinda came out last week. It was mentioned that both sides needed to come to an agreement because if they didn't both sides would not be happy with the outcome.

It was thought that the 8th Circuit would basically allow the Lockout to continue, however if both sides didn't get something done by Sept. 11 (start of season) then the owners would pay the players triple the amount for each game. If the whole season is lost then it would cost close to 3 Billion.

Does it mean any one side has leverage? yes and no. The owners would get leverage for now but I can actually see the players deciding to not agree to anything in order to make the owners pay a price for winning now.

Basically the 8th Circuit was saying that they would listen to arguements but didn't feel they had the right to intervene and lift the lockout (which they must still be standing behind).

[url=http://www.ca8.uscourts.gov/]U.S. Court Court of Appeals - Welcome[/url]

Click on "Oral Arguements" and you'll get to hear both sides. Both sides get 25 min. each.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;807012]Doty has a pending ruling that will award some unknown sum to the players (up to about $3billion). 8th District has a pending ruling that could make the lockout permanent and basically eliminate the players leverage of the anti-trust lawsuit.

Obviously simplified for the single sentence requirement, but both sides have a big incentive not to let the other shoe fall on either of these rulings.[/quote]

Found it and it's not 3 Billion, it's more like 10 Billion.

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/05/how-the-eighth-circuit-could-issue-a-ruling-neither-side-will-like/]How the Eighth Circuit could issue a ruling neither side will like | ProFootballTalk[/url]



[quote]
[B]How the Eighth Circuit could issue a ruling neither side will like[/B]

Posted by Mike Florio on June 5, 2011, 1:34 PM EDT
[IMG]http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/mootfestival-01.jpg?w=250[/IMG] One of the best things about doing radio spots is that the discussion often gives me the kind of clarity that merely sitting at the keyboard doesn’t. That’s exactly what happened earlier today, when I chatted with Howard Balzer of 101 ESPN in St. Louis.
With Judge Kermit Bye strongly suggesting that [URL="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/03/oral-arguments-end-judge-encourages-sides-to-negotiate/"][COLOR=#d81718]neither side will like the ruling[/COLOR][/URL] that the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit renders and with NFL lawyer Paul Clement being peppered with questions about the possibility that the non-statutory antitrust exemption lasts for only six months after expiration of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, the discussion with Balzer has helped me finally figure out how precisely how the Eighth Circuit could issue a decision that no one likes.
First, the Eighth Circuit would rule that the Norris-LaGuardia Act prevents courts from issuing injunctions aimed at ending any lockout or strike arising from a “labor dispute,” with that term being given a broad interpretation that would apply even after the decertification of a union, legitimate or sham. This would allow the current lockout to proceed, indefinitely.
Second, the Eighth Circuit would rule that the non-statutory antitrust exemption lasts for only six months after expiration of the CBA, given the specific term in the expired labor deal requiring the players to wait six months before filing an antitrust lawsuit. Given the Norris-LaGuardia Act, this wouldn’t end the lockout as of September 11, the day on which the first slate of Sunday games are due to be played. However, it would expose the NFL to treble damages beginning with Week One of the regular season, if the lockout ultimately is determined to be an antitrust violation as of September 11.
Thus, the owners would be able to lock the players out for all of the 2011 season, but the owners would ultimately be responsible for the full player payroll in 2011, times three. That’s an amount that easily would exceed $10 billion.
[/quote]

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[quote=SmootSmack;807031]I don't know. I think it's really close[/quote]

Others agree with you...

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/14/freeman-some-believedeal-could-come-within-a-matter-of-days/]Freeman: Some believe deal could come “within a matter of days” | ProFootballTalk[/url]

[quote]
Freeman also reports that 80 to 85 percent of the next labor deal has been negotiated, and that the entire process has become very cordial, with smiles, handshakes, and smalltalk.
“It’s going to be very difficult for this to get screwed up,” a source “with intimate knowledge of the discussions” told Freeman.
[/quote]

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

^ Gollee I hope that is correct information.

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[quote=NLC1054;807026][URL="http://twitter.com/#!/Rich_Tandler/status/80715576674238464"]Per Rich Tandler, who was retweeting it...[/URL][/quote]

From looking around this guy is the only one saying this which leads me to think it's BS.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

I'm not buying into anything until a deal is actually announced. I just hope all the rumors of them getting close are real.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=SBXVII;807041]Found it and it's not 3 Billion, it's more like 10 Billion.

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/05/how-the-eighth-circuit-could-issue-a-ruling-neither-side-will-like/]How the Eighth Circuit could issue a ruling neither side will like | ProFootballTalk[/url][/quote]

the 3 billion I was talking about is the maximum in the TV Deal that Judge Doty has yet to award the players. As for damages in locking the players out, if the 8th District rules that they have the right to lock out the players, then that gives the owners leverage because no damages from a lockout would even begin to be calculated until long after some negotiated settlement is reached. Thus, the owners would not really fear damages from a future lawsuit, as much as the players would suffer from the immediacy of the no pay while locked out. Most likely damages would also be addressed as part of any settlement/agreement.

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[quote=Giantone;807054]From looking around this guy is the only one saying this which leads me to think it's BS.[/quote]

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/15/the-lawyers-get-the-boot-again/]The lawyers get the boot, again | ProFootballTalk[/url]

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[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=nfp-20110615_jeff_pash_owners_have_offered_90percent_cash_guarantee]Jeff Pash: Owners have offered 90-percent cash guarantee - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

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So, if teams are required to spend 90 percent of the salary cap in cash, wouldn't teams with a ton of dead cap space go over the cap? Or in this system would there be no such thing as dead cap space?

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[quote=Mattyk;807097][URL="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/15/the-lawyers-get-the-boot-again/"]The lawyers get the boot, again | ProFootballTalk[/URL][/quote]

ESPN,The Post,USA Today,etc all saying things were going well and never mention this at all.Until this I never saw another artical on it but as it says they are gone.

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[quote=Giantone;807206]ESPN,The Post,USA Today,etc all saying things were going well and never mention this at all.Until this I never saw another artical on it but as it says they are gone.[/quote]

You're not looking very hard

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6663832&campaign=rss&source=NFLHeadlines]Lockout: Talks 'almost blew up' Tuesday, source says - ESPN[/url]

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

Ha, I was watching a baseball game on ESPN last night during the Stanley Cup intermission and saw a funny crawl on the bottom talking about "laywers kicked out", "talks almost blew up" and someone saying "it would be borderline insane to think a deal can be reached in 2 weeks".

Yesterday MORNING (Mike and Mike and ESPN Radio news), ESPN was reporting a deal was about to be drawn up and could be days until it's done.

Make up your minds! :D

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[quote=CRedskinsRule;807065]the 3 billion I was talking about is the maximum in the TV Deal that Judge Doty has yet to award the players. As for damages in locking the players out, if the 8th District rules that they have the right to lock out the players, then that gives the owners leverage because no damages from a lockout would even begin to be calculated until long after some negotiated settlement is reached. Thus, the owners would not really fear damages from a future lawsuit, as much as the players would suffer from the immediacy of the no pay while locked out. Most likely damages would also be addressed as part of any settlement/agreement.[/quote]

The way it sounds, although no one really knows how the 8th Circuit will decide, even listening to the "Oral Arguements" it seemed the 8th Circuit was leaning toward not lifting the "lockout" because they might not have any legal discretion to do so. So yes the "winners" if you will would be the owners. However, if the lockout extended into the regular season the 8th Circuit would or might award the players 3x the regular salary for each game and for a year that amounts to 10 Billion.

I understand what you were saying now though with the 3 Billion. Both sides have to figure out the T.V. money issue. But Judge Doty might not have to get involved if both sides include the distribution of the monies in the CBA. Which I'm betting the owners had figured would be done. If it's included and both sides agree to the split of that money then the players can drop any lawsuits they want. Doty may not even get involved.

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[quote=Mattyk;807097][URL="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/15/the-lawyers-get-the-boot-again/"]The lawyers get the boot, again | ProFootballTalk[/URL][/quote]

I just have one question... isn't D.Smith a lawyer? So when the owners walk into the meetings with out any lawyers to negotiate why would they want to even talk to D.Smith? He's a lawyer and would obviously look out for the players. What I'm getting at is the owners might feel like they are getting screwed if they are only being able to talk to D.Smith (lawyer) but they don't have a lawyer looking after their best interest.

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on the lockout insurance issue, there really is very little damage IF, no games are missed due to a lockout, thus it is not a hard issue to resolve as part of the overall settlements. The NHL locked out their players for a year, and were not charged with irreparable harm fines. I can't see any court setting a precedent like that, but since most of this is all about threats of loss of money, I guess it could hang over the owners heads.

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[quote=SBXVII;807231]I just have one question... isn't D.Smith a lawyer? So when the owners walk into the meetings with out any lawyers to negotiate why would they want to even talk to D.Smith? He's a lawyer and would obviously look out for the players. What I'm getting at is the owners might feel like they are getting screwed if they are only being able to talk to D.Smith (lawyer) but they don't have a lawyer looking after their best interest.[/quote]

They certainly want to have DSmith in there, simply for the case that they believe he will be the Union head when and if it ever re-certifies. Last thing they want is to negotiate a new CBA/settlement with Vrabek et al, and then have DSmith convince the rank and file that it is a bad deal.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=SBXVII;807231]I just have one question... isn't D.Smith a lawyer? So when the owners walk into the meetings with out any lawyers to negotiate why would they want to even talk to D.Smith? He's a lawyer and would obviously look out for the players. What I'm getting at is the owners might feel like they are getting screwed if they are only being able to talk to D.Smith (lawyer) but they don't have a lawyer looking after their best interest.[/quote]

D. Smith is a lawyer. But he is not wearing his lawyer hat in the proceedings. Instead, he is there as a player rep, not a legal counsel. And apparently the other day he was instrumental in calling off the lawyer dogs like Kessler.

I realize there is slipperiness in the idea that D. Smith is a lawyer but isn't a lawyer. But if he backs up the not-a-lawyer angle with actions, as he apparently has done, then there is no reason for owners to get overly ruffled.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=Monkeydad;807226]Ha, I was watching a baseball game on ESPN last night during the Stanley Cup intermission and saw a funny [B]crawl[/B] on the bottom talking about "laywers kicked out", "talks almost blew up" and someone saying "it would be borderline insane to think a deal can be reached in 2 weeks".

Yesterday MORNING (Mike and Mike and ESPN Radio news), ESPN was reporting a deal was about to be drawn up and could be days until it's done.

Make up your minds! :D[/quote]

Scrawl? - Southern
Scroll? - Northern

lol, I'm just having fun, the lord knows I don't always use the best words either.