Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Mattyk;849318]Well, let's not gloss over the fact Shanahan drafted guys like Davis and Sharpe. The Broncos were floundering around the .500 mark for the prior 3 seasons before he got there too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

It is a bit of a stretch to say that as an assistant coach with the Broncos in the early 90s that Shanahan drafted Shannon Sharpe. But if you want to say that he was at least a part of the decision process that selected Sharpe, fine.

The fact remains that when he took over the Broncos as the head coach, he had a Hall of Fame QB [B]already there [/B]and a Hall of Fame TE [B]already there[/B] and a rookie RB who might someday get into the Hall of Fame because he did have one season with 2000+ yards gained.

That is a far cry from what Mike Shanahan found here in Washington at the end of the Jim Zorn/Vinny Cerrato era. He had a ton of work to do; he still does have a ton of work to do. There is progress - - but the Redskins are not yet close to being an elite team in the Shanahan era.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;849520]It is a bit of a stretch to say that as an assistant coach with the Broncos in the early 90s that Shanahan drafted Shannon Sharpe. But if you want to say that he was at least a part of the decision process that selected Sharpe, fine.

The fact remains that when he took over the Broncos as the head coach, he had a Hall of Fame QB [B]already there [/B]and a Hall of Fame TE [B]already there[/B] and a rookie RB who might someday get into the Hall of Fame because he did have one season with 2000+ yards gained.

That is a far cry from what Mike Shanahan found here in Washington at the end of the Jim Zorn/Vinny Cerrato era. He had a ton of work to do; he still does have a ton of work to do. There is progress - - but the Redskins are not yet close to being an elite team in the Shanahan era.[/quote]

I think the bottom line in regards to our situation, which you pretty well cover in your posts, is that Mike hasn't developed a franchise QB. Montana and Elway were waiting for him, and I don't see Cutler as a franchise type that could lead his team to a championship. That's not to say he can't do it, and who knows maybe Kyle is great w/ QBs.

Now that Beck is the starter it'll be very interesting to see how he progresses under Mike and Kyle.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;849520]It is a bit of a stretch to say that as an assistant coach with the Broncos in the early 90s that Shanahan drafted Shannon Sharpe. But if you want to say that he was at least a part of the decision process that selected Sharpe, fine.

The fact remains that when he took over the Broncos as the head coach, he had a Hall of Fame QB [B]already there [/B]and a Hall of Fame TE [B]already there[/B] and a rookie RB who might someday get into the Hall of Fame because he did have one season with 2000+ yards gained.

That is a far cry from what Mike Shanahan found here in Washington at the end of the Jim Zorn/Vinny Cerrato era. He had a ton of work to do; he still does have a ton of work to do. There is progress - - but the Redskins are not yet close to being an elite team in the Shanahan era.[/quote]

For some reason I thought Shanny drafted Sharpe... oh well. I was just pointing out he did have some roster reshaping to do there. He didn't step into a perfect situation. Yes he did step into a mess here and needs more time to get things straight. No disagreeing with you there.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

I think this thread is entirely an overreaction. MS has done a good job so far, and 3-2 at this point in the season with a win over the Giants would be considered a success by everyone about 2 months ago.

1) Most of the league and this board were applauding the staff about 1-2 weeks ago with their good decisions. I predict they will do so again in about 2-3 weeks if we have a couple of key wins.

2) We're missing a good QB, however MS has done a great job at supplying some depth, with only 1-2 offseasons to work with. The first year he didn't have that many draft picks, so not sure if we can count that one.. Good draft picks of TW (?I think), Kerrigan, Jenkins (probably), Helu (probably), etc, and Atogwe/Hightower in FA. Altogether better moves for younger players than in the past 10 years.

3) Beck may be a good QB. Don't have any idea yet, but does have promise and I'm willing to watch him for 2-3 games to see. There will be growing pains, but I doubt he throws an 2 picks a game and has the 2nd worst passer rating in the league -- like Rex.

4) MS didn't have a good QB to pick at the right places in the draft. Obviously passed on Gabbert for a reason, time will tell whether that was the right choice. Also passed on the others: Ponder, Dalton, Mallett, etc -> because they weren't worth a 1st round picks. Didn't get a high priced FA like last year (McNabb) - probably a good choice not to give up more draft picks for throwaway QB's. SO glad we didn't do a give-away-the-franchise deal like the Raiders did for Palmer. In all, MS has made wise choices so far with a couple of misses. Plan to address QB next year.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=skins89moss;848371]My take is that the Redskin coaches no more about the NFL game than any fool on here who tries to pretend he knows more.[/quote]

I hate when people default to this notion. "They're the coach, they know more than you."

It may be true in 99.9% of decisions and cases, but to say that coaches can't completely gaff a call, or make an incorrect decision because of their past or pedigree, and their decisions are always above question because they know the game and the big picture, is ridiculous. That is what these forums are for. If you dont want to comment on what you think has been done right or wrong in your eyes, then just be content with reading the newspapers every monday morning. Why are people like that even on a forum, if all they do is blindly follow along with whatever decisions said coach makes? They are humans too, and are not above criticism. Definitely not Mike Shanahan. And with him bringing his baby boy in to run the offense, he has to know that if it is being run inadequately, its going to be a lightning rod for critique and discussion, among the press as well as the fans.

Hopefully he can apply a bandaid (John Beck) to the situation and forego the impending criticism headed his way if the offense continues to lose games for this franchise. If we run the ball over 40% of the snaps on Sunday, believe that Mike reigned Kyle in a bit and MADE him run the ball to set up the bootlegs and playactions for Beck. With our offensive line issues, Id be very surprised if we dont lean heavily on the run and move the pocket around a bit. Becks mobility beings a new dimension to this offense, and while not on the level of a Randall Cunningham or Michael Vick, it could be just what the doctor ordered for this squad.

Another thing....... Jim Haslett is slowly working his way back to another head coaching job somewhere in the near future if he continues on like he has.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

Coaches ARE fallible and it happens all the time. You see in it in clock mgmt.....2 minute drill and other more pressure type situations more often.
That having been said, do you have a job? If so part of the reason you got it is....past experience..track record.
Coaches are the experts....fans are the idiots...just fact! There are exceptions on both sides of that coin. THAT is why coaches get 5m p/yr and fans get Direct TV.
Forums are for fans to execute their best NFL thoughts.
Coaches do it in the huddle.
LOVE MS/HATE HIM, the man is a PROVEN SB winner. That means he knows how to get it done. He just cannot wipe away 20 years of mediocrity and worse in 2 seasons. Only an Idiot fan believes that.
BTW.....Baby Boy had one of the most prolific offenses in pro ball before coming here. Soooo he did not need the gig.
HTTR!

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

The roster was old and depleted. In all honesty, after Gibbs retired, it should have been blown up then, but with two additional years of Zorn, the roster just kept aging.

There was so much wrong with this team that i have always said i would give him 4 years before I start judging him. In another thread someone was so upset how we don't have any one to back up the LG and how it was just another major oversight of MS.

Let's be real here: he inherited a very old team and we are still a very old team. We don't have a playmaker on offense that scares people in the redzone and no, we don't have an above average QB at the moment.

But, we have seen time and time again, good QBs get thrown into bad situations and where it's a no win for everyone. If we had drafted a QB the first or second year, it wouldn't have mattered; There would be no one to support them. It could have been a Patrick Ramsey, Joey Harrington, John Beck or name any hundred of similar situations.

In the past offseason, you've seen them upgrade at Safety, WR (Gaffney and young people to grow), great OLB, two new DLineman, new starting CB to replace someone who wanted to leave, starting RB with a change of pace back, new RG. I think we can all agree that this years team is way better, and more talented than last years.

But to expect to also, with all of those upgrades, get more depth and a better QB? You can't do it all in one off season. He inherited a poor roster, and in two years turned it into something that is average.

It seems most people hark back on one main thing: Donovan McNabb. Yes, he screwed up. Thought he had someone who could play at a good level for 2 to 3 years to make this team very competitive and draft someone to learn the system. He was wrong. But, once the mistake was realized, he cut ways, got what he could and moved on.

I am just happy for once to have someone who has a proven track record that is going to get their fair chance to build a team. He had great teams almost every year at Denver - I saws the statistics and I was floored!

I think he has made smart FA decisions, has coached well in the game and has the full faith of the locker room that he can win games.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

I am frustrated by the QB position as every Redskins fan is but overall I am VERY happy with the direction of the team...and that direction is 100% attributed to Mike Shannahan & Bruce Allen. We are only a year and a half away from the Snyderatto & Zorn circus...it amazes me that anyone could be fed up with the organization now after what we have been through. They will eventually get the QB right and when they do the team will take off...

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

We tend to get caught up in the moment as a fan base. Overall we were 6-10 Shanny's first year. Improvement from 4-12 with Zorny. Hopefully we will be better this year. So far, Bruce Allen and Shanahan have done a good job guiding this team in a better direction.

There is no overnight solution.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=celts32;850072]I am frustrated by the QB position as every Redskins fan is but overall I am VERY happy with the direction of the team...and that direction is 100% attributed to Mike Shannahan & Bruce Allen. We are only a year and a half away from the Snyderatto & Zorn circus...it amazes me that anyone could be fed up with the organization now after what we have been through. They will eventually get the QB right and when they do the team will take off...[/quote]
Agreed ! Adding a QB , WR on offense , and 1 guy at any postion on Defense and this team is solid . Of course I hope we draft at least 1 OLmen , and either a MLB or big nasty DLmen as I think that would make this team very strong .

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

My take is pretty simple. Mike has done a phenominal job thus far with a severely below average team he started with last year.

I love the aggressive style defense of haslett, but i think in certain big situations he has to be a bit more discipline with his play calling to not give up a big play.

Kyle on the other hand i think is killing us. I think he needs to begin game planning toward our opponents instead of trying to impress other team owners with his "offensive guru mind" play calling for a future head coaching gig. I think kyle needs to go. I dont like having the son of our head coach as an offensive coordinator.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

The top down? the tippy top? I think we all have the same sentiments in regards to Snyder. I think Allen was an awesome choice. I think M.Shanahan was an awesome choice and quite frankly K.Shanahan did extremely well in Houston with the offense so I really don't have a problem with them. I didn't like the Haslett choice but he's changed my mind by making this defense a formidable one.

My problem is when MS was picked as HC I, probably along with every fan, thought we were getting MS's scheme. Last year because we had no OL to assist with the run game we were left with KS's pass happy scheme. This year in the preseason I thought the Skins would have an identity on offense because they ran so well. But now the passing is lacking.

I'm watching the plays and thinking how much this reminds me of Gibbs2. Gibbs2 was brought in and he had a good run game but no passing attack. So he goes out and brings in Al Saunders to combine Gibbs style of run with Saunders style of pass attack and basically it didn't work. In the end both run and pass failed.

Can what we have right now be fixed? I think so but the owner, coaching staff, and fans .... especially fans and media need to be patient. There needs to be consistancy, in other words keeping the HC in place for more then 2 yrs, keeping the OC in place for more then 2 yrs, keeping the same scheme in place for longer then 2 yrs, picking up a better then decent QB to run the offense, then give it time to jell. Instead of making over night decisions and panicking and tossing all that has been accomplished.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

The offense isn't going to reach it's full potential until we have a top QB in there.

Much like how Haslett's D struggled last year without the right pieces in place, we're seeing that with the offense now. The easy way out is to blame the scheme, blame Kyle, etc. Fact is we have a talent issue, not a coaching issue.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

We're seeing what happens when you build a team. I like that we've implemented a pass first offense. It's time to start getting in touch with today's NFL. Kyle has proven that he can run an effective and potent offense in this league with the right pieces. That Texans offense under him was one of the most deadly in the NFL.

We need to build our offense, much like we've built our defense. We used some top draft picks for starters and made some great FA acquisitions to get our defense to a formidible level. I fully expect that this team will have similar success when looking for offensive talent the following year. In order to be effective we need a true #1 WR and we need a QB (not in that order.)

The days of Gibbs (run, run run, punt) are over. This is a pass first league and it's good that the younger members of our offensive team are getting this philosophy ingrained in them now. Is running and playing defense our best bet to win now? Yes. Is it worth winning games right now, or is it better to have the scheme in place with some players that know it extremely well in a couple years where we can be competitive. I'd rather take some lumps now so we can be ready in the future.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

When I started this thread the thought was a wk to wk discussion. Curious to know what ya'll think after today's game?

My intuition is aside from a few players on defense this team has mailed it in, which is most definitely a reflection of leadership, or lack thereof, among the coaching staff. Mike is a sad shadow of his former self in terms of ability to motivate his players, scheme, overall coaching and obviously winning. It's really almost unbelievable how far he's regressed.

Haslett too has "lost" much of his group, which means he'll be almost totally ineffective for as long as he's on the staff. Haslett never was a great coordinator in terms of scheme, strategy etc but he could fire guys up. He's unable to do so at this point so the writing is on the wall.

The Kyle situation is a disaster. In hindsight he had the right situation in Houston. A great QB (not elite) and an elite WR allowed him to win some games. Houston is better since he left and now we're seeing how poorly he could adapt to anything else.

Bottom line is the franchise is still a joke. The best QB on the roster for the last several years is still Jason Campbell and the best coaching talent still Williams and Saunders. Snyder is the biggest failure in the history of pro football at this point in his ownership of the Skins.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

Coaching is a disaster. The only time I recall a Gibbs coached team getting shut out was a 17-0 loss to the Giants at season's end in NY in frigid temps when the Giants' D was in its heyday. Man. 3-1 seems like a long time ago.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Mattyk;850143]The offense isn't going to reach it's full potential until we have a top QB in there.

Much like how Haslett's D struggled last year without the right pieces in place, we're seeing that with the offense now. The easy way out is to blame the scheme, blame Kyle, etc. Fact is we have a talent issue, not a coaching issue.[/quote]

Well Mike and Kyle are suppose to be experts when it comes to QB's and offense. They choose to go with McNabb, Beck and Grossman. To me that's just pure arrogance. So in that area they get an EPIC FAIL!

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Mattyk;850143]The offense isn't going to reach it's full potential until we have a top QB in there.

Much like how Haslett's D struggled last year without the right pieces in place, we're seeing that with the offense now. The easy way out is to blame the scheme, blame Kyle, etc. Fact is we have a talent issue, not a coaching issue.[/quote]

I think the talent issue is on the field and on the sidelines.
Kyle is a child in the NFL. He barely had any credentials when he came to DC.
I'd prefer we dump him.
If his father cant handle that then maybe we move on in a larger fashion.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

KYLE NEEDS TO BE SHOWN THE DOOR!!! I would have fired him last week for not eating up the Panthers garbage defense!

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

My main probelm with Kyle is he doesn't seem to have ANY type of feel for the game. Or has any ability to make any kind of on the fly adjustments. It was obvious from the get go that your QB is getting killed and our pathetic line can't block the hapless Buffalo defense, who was playing w/out their best dlinemen. So Kyle...why not roll the pocket? Why not max protect? Why not have your backs chip? It's just basic shit that I see so why can't he? KYLE.... GET OUT AND DON'T LET THE DOOR HIT YOU ON THE WAY OUT!

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

With regards to the running game, and only the running game, Kyle can be described as the recincarnation of Jim ****ing Zorn 2009. Strech play to the left, boys!!!! All day, every day!!!!!

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

Perhaps the swinging gate moment aside, Jim Zorn never was this much of a liability. It's really not close at this point. Our offense was coached better in 2008-2009 than it has been the last two years. Unless you count preseason games. Then it's close.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;853892]Perhaps the swinging gate moment aside, Jim Zorn never was this much of a liability. It's really not close at this point. Our offense was coached better in 2008-2009 than it has been the last two years. Unless you count preseason games. Then it's close.[/quote]

That's why I restricted the criticism to a small aspect of Zorn's playcalling...the repeated stretch plays to the left.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;853889]With regards to the running game, and only the running game, Kyle can be described as the recincarnation of Jim ****ing Zorn 2009. Strech play to the left, boys!!!! All day, every day!!!!![/quote]

And that's another thing. That stupid ass play takes so long to develop. Can these dumb ass coaches come up with more than one god damn run play?

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

Gahhhh.........didnt need to be reminded of the swinging gate on a day like today.
:smashfrea

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

My take is that we have 5 or 6 offensive starters out on a team that was mediocre offensively to begin w/.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

Today?
....weighed....measured.....found lacking.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=redsk1;853899]My take is that we have 5 or 6 offensive starters out on a team that was mediocre offensively to begin w/.[/quote] Definitely worth considering during the witch hunt.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

Kyle: fits players to schemes rather than fitting schemes to players. Epic fail.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Lotus;853903]Kyle: fits players to schemes rather than fitting schemes to players. Epic fail.[/quote]

Sadly, I agree.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Lotus;853903]Kyle: fits players to schemes rather than fitting schemes to players. Epic fail.[/quote]

That may be great on a team looking to win games now. We're looking to win in the future. Put the offensive scheme in place now, let the young guys get used to it. People that don't fit will be replaced.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Daseal;853928]That may be great on a team looking to win games now. We're looking to win in the future. Put the offensive scheme in place now, let the young guys get used to it. People that don't fit will be replaced.[/quote]

We'll need a top 5 pick to get the next Megatron or Andre Johnson.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=sirclintonportis;853936]we'll need a top 5 pick to get the next megatron or andre johnson.[/quote]


justin blakmon

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

Sorry, Shanny knows more about coaching in the NFl that I do for sure, but he still isn't a very good coach. Gibbs and Beathred built the Skins into a NFL power and after they both left the magic was gone. You want to right the ship, then you need both the FO and a coach that can rebuild a team. Shanny came into a team that was somewhat set up for him before taking the reigns in Denver. After Elway left and his supporting cast soon followed, Shanny was on his own. He had stud RBs, Plummer, etc, but only had one playoff win post Elway. Simply put, the guy isn't the good coach he has been hyped up to be. Defend him all you want, but he will be on his keister at the end of this year or in 2012. And for the 8-8 prediction, you have to be kidding me!!!! Maybe with Moss and HT healthy, but not now. Even if they were in, Beck isn't our boy. We win 6 at the most.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

6 wins by far will be a good yr w this roster

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

IF I saw some sort of progression, any progression, I would take back what I have said, but all results thus far indicate a regression if anything. As for the draft, yeah we got some good talent, but in hindsight, should we have gone after Ponder or Dalton instead of Kerrigan? Kerrigan is solid, but not a game changer like a Suh, etc. Since Kerrigan has thus panned out he was a great pickup, but I am saying now we know we don't have a QB, did we do the right thing? Should we wait another 3 years after getting a new rook QB in 2012 only to find that Kyle does indeed suck monkey balls and ruin another QB like Spurrier killed Ramsey? Also, is there any sense of urgency with the coaching staff? I mean do they even know how to make the proper adjustments to make the thing (meaning team)work at optimal level? To me, it looks like they are muddling through, just like Zorn did after the team quit on him, or after the Spurrier experiment turned into an epic fail. Snyder still has to take a lot of the blame for the sad situation of the franchise. Snyder's biggest mistakes were 1. how he fired Norv, and 2. fired Schotty. It has been 10 years since he got rid of Schotty and we suck monkey balls.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=redsk1;853899]My take is that we have 5 or 6 offensive starters out on a team that was mediocre offensively to begin w/.[/quote]

Problem w/ this assessment, aside from missing completely the big picture of a team that looks utterly uninspired and devoid of any real leadership, is that it ignores the practical reality every team has injury issues such as these. The Bills were playing they're 3rd or 4th string left tackle I believe and they mostly dominated our defensive front 7. On the other side our 2nd string left tackle looked like he could absolutely care less about the game today and the offensive line was totally dominated by a Bills defense missing it's very best player.

Again, injuries are the excuse for the team that has no leadership or motivation. The other side of the coin (last year's Packers) is a roster smashed w/ injuries but still led to greatness.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

man, if the coaches cant right this ship, and we finish with 4 or 5 wins this year, which it looks like is DEFINITELY possible, what then?

We could actually go the rest of the season without a win with the offensive line playing like that and John Beck as our qb. The defense opening up like a frikkin turn style is not particularly pleasing. I say we go 4-12 this season, and get the 3rd pick in the draft.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

My take is:

Give them one more year. Next year find a starting QB from the many that will be available, also draft a CB, LB, C and G.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

Man a lot of crap would have to change in order to us win any more games this year...i just dont see it