Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=GMScud;859339]I agree with your disagreement. We have a bevy of young draft picks in the fold, and another chunk of picks upcoming in this years draft. We're in good shape with the salary cap, and we don't have a lot of money tied up in older players right now. We're getting younger.

However, I'm beginning to lean towards Mike Shanahan not really being too much of a positive right now. Hiring Kyle is looking like a mistake, and he's totally wet the bed at the QB position. But I do think there is reason for optimism in the coming seasons IF IF IF we land a blue-chip QB.[/quote]


Yep i agree with this but i also agree with mredskins a bit too. Personal wise i think we are a lot better then we were before Mike got here. However coaching wise we seem just as bad, maybe worse. Defense seems at best equal and offense seems just as bad maybe worse.

I think our offensive coaching is just as bad as it was under Zorn. Mike is susposed to be a quality controll head coach. If Kyle's play calling sucks step in and take over, thats where he is susposed to add value. Dont get me wrong Zorn sucked and was in way over his head, but im not sure if i can say he was worse then Kyle.

All that said i do see the light at the end of the tunel, i just cant tell how far it is.

Kyle gets my smackdown. Althogh i dont think we could/should have run on 3rd and 2 in the redzone as i belive that a zone blocking running game only works when you have a lot of field in front of you on short yarage situtations. BUT to have the QB drop back 5 steps was just retarded.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=mlmpetert;859347]Yep i agree with this but i also agree with mredskins a bit too. Personal wise i think we are a lot better then we were before Mike got here. However coaching wise we seem just as bad, maybe worse. Defense seems at best equal and offense seems just as bad maybe worse.

I think our offensive coaching is just as bad as it was under Zorn. Mike is susposed to be a quality controll head coach. If Kyle's play calling sucks step in and take over, thats where he is susposed to add value. Dont get me wrong Zorn sucked and was in way over his head, but im not sure if i can say he was worse then Kyle.

All that said i do see the light at the end of the tunel, i just cant tell how far it is.

Kyle gets my smackdown. Althogh i dont think we could/should have run on 3rd and 2 in the redzone as i belive that a zone blocking running game only works when you have a lot of field in front of you on short yarage situtations. BUT to have the QB drop back 5 steps was just retarded.[/quote]

Zorn's record through his first year and a half is right there with Shanny's in the same time frame. I know Vinny is not here calling the personnel shots, so that's a huge upgrade, but win's and losses, thus far, Zorn = Shanahan.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;859245]As a enormous Redskins fan, I'm just shocked as hell to find out that Mike Shanahan, two time Super Bowl winning head coach, doesn't know QBs. He coached Joe Montana, Steve Young, John Elway, Jake Plummer, and Jay Cutler. As a offensive coordinator and head coach, he won with those QBs, right?

Now let's fast forward to Mike Shanahan's tenure as head coach of the Washington Redskins. He cuts Todd Collins, doesn't re-sign Jason Campbell, trades a 2nd and 4th round pick for Donovan McNabb, trades for John Beck, signs Rex Grossman, and then trades McNabb. Then the worst of all decisions that he could possibly make results in him not drafting a QB in the 2011 draft, and not signing Matt Hasselback or another veteran QB that has played in the west coast offense after the NFL lockout was finished. That's eight TERRIBLE decisions that Mike Shanahan has made right there that's resulted in nothing but mediocrity at the quarterback position.

SHANAHAN HAS GOTTEN IT HORRIBLY WRONG WITH ALL OF THE DECISIONS THAT HE'S MADE PERTAINING TO THE QB POSITION SINCE HE'S BEEN THE HEAD COACH OF THE WASHINGTON REDSKINS!!!!!!!!!![/quote]


Let's review the bidding here:

[B]Joe Montana [/B]had been a QB in the NFL of no small accomplishment for a decade before he met Mike Shanahan.

[B]Steve Young [/B]had been in the USFL and the NFL for more than 5 years before he met Mike Shanahan.

[B]John Elway [/B]had been in the NFL for more than a decade - - and had gone to the Super Bowl with only average talent around him - - before he met Mike Shanahan.

[B]Jake Plummer [/B]improved under Shanahan's tutelage AND THEN he retired from football completely saying that playing QB for Shanahan was a nightmare because Shanahan demanded perfection. Rather than take millions of dollars to finish out his contract, Plummer retired because Shanahan drove him nuts.

[B]Jay Cutler [/B]played just well enough in Denver under Shanahan to miss the playoffs a few years and get Shahanan fired.



The question is this:
[INDENT][B]Did he win "with" those QBs or did he win "because he had" those QBs?[/B][/INDENT]

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=GMScud;859339]I agree with your disagreement. We have a bevy of young draft picks in the fold, and another chunk of picks upcoming in this years draft. We're in good shape with the salary cap, and we don't have a lot of money tied up in older players right now. We're getting younger.

[B]However, I'm beginning to lean towards Mike Shanahan not really being too much of a positive right now. Hiring Kyle is looking like a mistake, and he's totally wet the bed at the QB position.[/B] But I do think there is reason for optimism in the coming seasons IF IF IF we land a blue-chip QB.[/quote]

I don't think there's a coaching staff out there who would look good with this roster. There are legitimate criticisms: Whiffing on McNabb, thinking that Beck or Grossman had a chance to be effective... but even then you have to ask what the options were. Kevin Kolb? Throwing every draft pick you have at the Bengals for Carson Palmer? I just don't know.

I still maintain that what we're seeing now is a natural progression for a franchise in the state that it's in. A 3-13/4-12 type season was bound to happen after 12 years of incompetence and dysfunction. There isn't a collection of front office or coaching professionals that I know of who would have fared any better at this point.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=Beemnseven;859355]I don't think there's a coaching staff out there who would look good with this roster. There are legitimate criticisms: Whiffing on McNabb, thinking that Beck or Grossman had a chance to be effective... but even then you have to ask what the options were. Kevin Kolb? Throwing every draft pick you have at the Bengals for Carson Palmer? I just don't know.

I still maintain that what we're seeing now is a natural progression for a franchise in the state that it's in.[B] A 3-13/4-12 type season was bound to happen after 12 years of incompetence and dysfunction.[/B] There isn't a collection of front office or coaching professionals that I know of who would have fared any better at this point.[/quote]

But we were a 6 win team last year with even less of Mike's personnel moves on the team. It's a clear regression. We have the worst offense in the national football league.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=GMScud;859351]Zorn's record through his first year and a half is right there with Shanny's in the same time frame. I know Vinny is not here calling the personnel shots, so that's a huge upgrade, [B]but win's and losses, thus far, Zorn = Shanahan.[/B][/quote]

Which is very sad.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=GMScud;859339]I agree with your disagreement. We have a bevy of young draft picks in the fold, and another chunk of picks upcoming in this years draft. We're in good shape with the salary cap, and we don't have a lot of money tied up in older players right now. We're getting younger.

However, I'm beginning to lean towards Mike Shanahan not really being too much of a positive right now. Hiring Kyle is looking like a mistake, and he's totally wet the bed at the QB position. But I do think there is reason for optimism in the coming seasons IF IF IF we land a blue-chip QB.[/quote]


Kyle's brain is still in Houston and his playcalling still reflects that at times.

But at the same time, one aspect of the Redskins offense is difficult to pin on him, at least imo. That aspect is the red zone offense. Most of our redzone scores have either been passes or 1 yard TD runs. A lack of a big possession receiver like Colston or Burress and an Oline that doesn't emphasize pure strength is going to result in that under most coordinators, imo.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

On Matt Hasselbeck -- would the results be any different? He still would have sub-par protection from the O-line, no running game, and absolutely zilch from the receivers.

Substitute any QB you want; Carson Palmer, Kevin Kolb, Matt Moore, ... Then you ask yourself if any of these guys are the QB of the future for this team? If anybody else were remotely more effective, wouldn't that just mask the true state of this team?

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=GMScud;859356]But we were a 6 win team last year with even less of Mike's personnel moves on the team. It's a clear regression. We have the worst offense in the national football league.[/quote]

I would say last year's team didn't have as many young, inexperienced players as it has now. There's been way more re-shuffling of the O-line this year, no Santana Moss, no Chris Cooley, Trent Williams was out for three games...

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

With regard to the Skins' radio team:

[B]Larry Michael [/B]is a competent broadcaster and it is OK for the local radio guy to be a homer. That is why I will gladly give him a pass for his game day broadcasts. However, his daily performance on "Redskins Nation" or whatever that daily TV abomination is called is beneath contempt. My cat could provide an equal amount of insight and the only sound my cat makes is "Meow!"

[B]Sam Huff [/B]was never a great radio commentator. Those who think he was great in the 80s are remembering how great it was to listen to the accounts of those games when the Skins were winning about 75% - 80% of the time. He was never insightful. Nowadays, when you listen you just hope that he does not implode on the air and start talking about something having nothing to do with football in no known language.

[B]Sonny Jurgensen [/B]is still very good on the radio. His "homerism" is tempered by the fact that what he sees on the field is embarrassing and he cannot hide his embarrassment for a full three hours. Listen to him as the offense comes to the line. He will mutter in the background - - as Larry Michael is saying that there is trips right or something like that - - "This play is going left." or "There is a lot of room down the middle." And you know what, he is right about 90% of the time. He sees what is going to happen before it happens. That is why he is worth listening to...

[B]Doc Walker [/B]is a one-trick pony. The world is made up of "ballers" and "other people". When someone puts on a Redskins jersey, that person immediately becomes a "baller". Some folks here must love him because as soon as the Redskins sign some guy off the street who was moving pianos for a living for the last 9 months, that guy instantly becomes a "stud". Doc's sideline insights are no better than the sideline insights from every other useless sideline reporter on radio or TV.

[B]Joe Theismann [/B]is a motor-mouth and a know-it-all. Like Sam Huff, if the Skins are winning 80% of their games, you can listen to his non-stop chatter. If the Skins are losing 80% of their games, listening to him is like getting a root canal without novicaine.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

I think the notion that Mike isn't involved at all in the offense is flawed. He is very involved, but it's Kyle's offense to run. And it will run just fine with a competent and consistent QB. Beck is neither, Grossman is just one of the two.

Selecting a QB (at least one) is of utmost importance. Doesn't necessarily mean a first rounder. They could go the Bengals 2011 draft route.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;859353]Let's review the bidding here:

[B]Jake Plummer [/B]improved under Shanahan's tutelage AND THEN he retired from football completely saying that playing QB for Shanahan was a nightmare because Shanahan demanded perfection. Rather than take millions of dollars to finish out his contract, Plummer retired because Shanahan drove him nuts.


The question is this:[INDENT][B]Did he win "with" those QBs or did he win "because he had" those QBs?[/B]
[/INDENT][/quote]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I thought Jake retired because he was traded to TB since Gruden can never have enough QBs. I remember Plummer being good but he was one of those guys that would throw a bunch of interceptions every now and then. Once Cutler got drafted Plummer's time in Devner was over, as Mike was keeping Cutler on the sidelines until he was ready. [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I will say with regards to your question, i agree with you in that he won [B][FONT=Verdana]with[/FONT][/B] those QBs. But the situation here is entirely different and not just because we dont have a decent QB; this isnt Mikes offense, its Kyles. So if we win it will be with Mike but because of Kyle and whoever the QB is, just like we are losing now with Mike because of Kyle and Grossman and Beck. Although the longer Mike stands on the sidelines and doesnt intervene our losing is becoming "because of Mike".[/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

More smack needs to go to MS and KS. Do either of these clowns know how to have the team run a hurry up offense? I just don't get it. Really starting to lose all faith in MS.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;859353]Let's review the bidding here:

[B]Joe Montana [/B]had been a QB in the NFL of no small accomplishment for a decade before he met Mike Shanahan.

[B]Steve Young [/B]had been in the USFL and the NFL for more than 5 years before he met Mike Shanahan.

[B]John Elway [/B]had been in the NFL for more than a decade - - and had gone to the Super Bowl with only average talent around him - - before he met Mike Shanahan.

[B]Jake Plummer [/B]improved under Shanahan's tutelage AND THEN he retired from football completely saying that playing QB for Shanahan was a nightmare because Shanahan demanded perfection. Rather than take millions of dollars to finish out his contract, Plummer retired because Shanahan drove him nuts.

[B]Jay Cutler [/B]played just well enough in Denver under Shanahan to miss the playoffs a few years and get Shahanan fired.



The question is this:[INDENT][B]Did he win "with" those QBs or did he win "because he had" those QBs?[/B]
[/INDENT][/quote]

That was the past. What's the guy done the last 5-6 years?

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;859353]Let's review the bidding here:

[B]Joe Montana [/B]had been a QB in the NFL of no small accomplishment for a decade before he met Mike Shanahan.

[B]Steve Young [/B]had been in the USFL and the NFL for more than 5 years before he met Mike Shanahan.

[B]John Elway [/B]had been in the NFL for more than a decade - - and had gone to the Super Bowl with only average talent around him - - before he met Mike Shanahan.

[B]Jake Plummer [/B]improved under Shanahan's tutelage AND THEN he retired from football completely saying that playing QB for Shanahan was a nightmare because Shanahan demanded perfection. Rather than take millions of dollars to finish out his contract, Plummer retired because Shanahan drove him nuts.

[B]Jay Cutler [/B]played just well enough in Denver under Shanahan to miss the playoffs a few years and get Shahanan fired.



The question is this:
[INDENT][B]Did he win "with" those QBs or did he win "because he had" those QBs?[/B][/INDENT][/quote]

As mentioned you're mistaken about Plummer's retirement...and you're also wrong about Elway

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=skinsfan69;859365]More smack needs to go to MS and KS. Do either of these clowns know how to have the team run a hurry up offense? I just don't get it. Really starting to lose all faith in MS.[/quote]

A hurry up offense? You want us to go 3 and out quicker and provide [B]even less[/B] of a breather for the D?

There isn't a coach alive today you'd have faith in with the time so far allowed to rebuild this team.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;859362]I think the notion that Mike isn't involved at all in the offense is flawed. He is very involved, but it's Kyle's offense to run. [B]And it will run just fine with a competent and consistent QB.[/B] Beck is neither, Grossman is just one of the two.

Selecting a QB (at least one) is of utmost importance. Doesn't necessarily mean a first rounder. They could go the Bengals 2011 draft route.[/quote]


But thats true with any offense.

I know youre a big Kyle Shanahan fan, but how would you rank his play calling and game planning? I guess i dont really know what you see in him.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=mlmpetert;859370]But thats true with any offense.

I know youre a big Kyle Shanahan fan, but how would you rank his play calling and game planning? I guess i dont really know what you see in him.[/quote]Papa John's should affectionately rename their Monday special "The Kyle" - a plain cheese pizza since they almost never have to throw in free toppings on account of our no-show offense.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

It's Monday, and I'm looking to stir the pot a little bit. Does anyone want to present the argument for, "the Skins are moving in the right direction?" What is this being based on?

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=Beemnseven;859369]A hurry up offense? You want us to go 3 and out quicker and provide [B]even less[/B] of a breather for the D?

There isn't a coach alive today you'd have faith in with the time so far allowed to rebuild this team.[/quote]Jim Schwartz.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=mlmpetert;859370]But thats true with any offense.

I know youre a big Kyle Shanahan fan, but how would you rank his play calling and game planning? I guess i dont really know what you see in him.[/quote]

Well that's why QB is so important. Someone has to be able to execute the game plan and we don't have that person. Put Aaron Rodgers here and put John Beck in Green Bay and they're not 9-0 and we're not 3-6.

I think KS is inconsistent and I think it's in large part to a) not having a QB he's comfortable with and b) not settling on a secure rotation (though some of those decisions may not be entirely his own).

But I see an offense that gets guys open. That has the potential to move down the field with relative ease, yet there's no conductor for this symphony.

I don't think he has to what it takes, not yet at least, to be a head coach so I wouldn't hope he become our next head coach. But I think he has what it takes to coordinate an offense.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=SouperMeister;859372]Papa John's should affectionately rename their Monday special "The Kyle" - a plain cheese pizza since they almost never have to throw in free toppings on account of our no-show offense.[/quote]

:lol:

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;859375]Well that's why QB is so important. Someone has to be able to execute the game plan and we don't have that person. Put Aaron Rodgers here and put John Beck in Green Bay and they're not 9-0 and we're not 3-6.

I think KS is inconsistent and I think it's in large part to a) not having a QB he's comfortable with and b) not settling on a secure rotation (though some of those decisions may not be entirely his own).

[B]But I see an offense that gets guys open.[/B] That has the potential to move down the field with relative ease, yet there's no conductor for this symphony.

I don't think he has to what it takes, not yet at least, to be a head coach so I wouldn't hope he become our next head coach. But I think he has what it takes to coordinate an offense.[/quote]

I see that he gets guys open, too. But someone who designs nice pass plays is a "play designer," not "offensive coordinator." To be the latter also requires play calling and scheming which is suitable to your talent.

I am not on the "fire Kyle" bandwagon. But to me, this year he has been a great play designer but poor offensive coordinator.

Fair point

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

I think Shanahan knew what he was getting into when starting the season with Grossman and Beck. The McNabb experiment bombed miserably, and he did not want to do that again with another veteran QB. He said the right things in the media to prop up the hopes that one of these guys would emerge as the man who would keep the seat warm until he could draft a QB he wants to run his system. It's completely blown up in his face, and going back to Grossman this week is the sure fire way of telling us he's throwing in the towel and evaluating talent...at least that's the way I see it. That being said, he's gets the smackdown for telling us last week that Beck was the guy and then starting Grossman.

Fred Davis. I imagine the talks of Cooley getting traded will slowly fade away. Davis is not ready for prime time. Not sure if it's laziness or what, but he never seems to complete routes and the drops are absolutely killing momentum. He's got the talent, but it seems his head is getting the way.

Not starting Helu. One of the bright spots of last week's awful loss was Helu's work out of the backfield, to only get benched a week later to a guy who managed 2 yards per carry against a so-so run defense. I think Helu earned the starting job and should be the starter unless he gets hurt.

As far as Gano is concerned, yes he missed 2 FGs, but the Dan Carpenter missed from a comparable distance on the same end of the field...not an excuse, and Gano's lucky those 2 misses didn't amount to a hill of beans since this offense cannot generate TDs.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;859373]It's Monday, and I'm looking to stir the pot a little bit. Does anyone want to present the argument for, "the Skins are moving in the right direction?" What is this being based on?[/quote]I would argue that we are moving in the right direction based on the recent emphasis on building the team through the draft, with a few conservative free agent signings to complement the process. That said, Shanny made a terrible miscalculation that the offense could get by with the limitations of the QBs on the roster and so little quality depth on the O-line. Without a consistent rushing game, these QBs cannot succeed. Put Grossman behind SF's O-line with their strong run game and numerous playmakers on offense, and he's probably very competent.

I've been shouting for years that offensive balance and success starts with the O-line. Until that is addressed, Shanny could put Sam Bradford or Andrew Luck behind this group, and they might look like Vinny Testaverde, circa 1988 in Tampa (when he threw an unthinkable 35 INTs!!!).

In conclusion, I want the top 3 picks in the next draft to be a QB and two O-linemen. There is a time to draft for need, and we have reached that point with Shanny's anemic offense. I can only hope that he agrees.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=skinsfan69;859261]I'm also giving some smack to Sam Huff. I listened to the game on my way to the sportsbar. He just needs to stop making a fool of himself and retire.[/quote]


They have a running thread of bloopers called "The Sam Huff blooper thread" over on ES. Funny stuff.


(sonny and sam)
[IMG]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_TwK3s2Eg87g/STuAMzEuq9I/AAAAAAAAA2w/0huPcxCf8Gk/s400/statler_waldorf_02_01.jpg[/IMG]

Sam: "He reminds me of Paul Warfield, who used to play for the Browns."
Sonny: "He played here for a lot of years."
Sam: "He did?"
Sonny: "His name is up there on the Ring of Fame."


Larry: The redskins have scored one touchdown in 2 and a half weeks, so the move to Rex has not resulted in paydirt.
Sam: Yeah, this is pretty good! This was the right move!


Gaffney catch on the sidelines.
Sam: that was a nice pass... he put it right on the side,, side.. it was almost on the sidewalk over there.

Roy helu catches a screen pass and goes 8 yards.. nice little play. Literally ONE play later..
Sam: They should run a screen pass. Nobody runs screen passes anymore!
Sonny: Sam they just ran one
Sam: I didn't see it
Sonny: Well, what were you watching?
Sam: I was watching the play, but it didn't seem like a screen to me!

(it was a textbook screen pass)


Larry: Gano sets up for a 28 yard field goal
Sam: 18 yards..he's on the 18 yard line
Larry: Adding the ten yards for the end zone it is a 28 yard attempt, here's the snap...


Matt Moore bootleg..
Sam: Wow! Whoever that guy was,, he was sure fast!
Sonny: Matt Moore?
Sam: Yeah, I'm tellin ya.. he was fast!
Sonny and Larry: well, there was no one there, not sure how fast he was
Sam: Well, nobody was there! That's pretty fast!



Sam, when Hankerson (I think) had the wind knocked out him after falling on the ball: "He's got a broken rib."
Larry: "That's Sam Huff, with the diagnosis from the press box."

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=skinsfan69;859261]I'm also giving some smack to Sam Huff. I listened to the game on my way to the sportsbar. He just needs to stop making a fool of himself and retire.[/quote]

Yeah I threw some smack at him too. It's a total embarrassment. He doesn't know what year it is.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=SouperMeister;859383]I would argue that we are moving in the right direction based on the recent emphasis on building the team through the draft, with a few conservative free agent signings to complement the process. That said, Shanny made a terrible miscalculation that the offense could get by with the limitations of the QBs on the roster and so little quality depth on the O-line. Without a consistent rushing game, these QBs cannot succeed. Put Grossman behind SF's O-line with their strong run game and numerous playmakers on offense, and he's probably very competent.

I've been shouting for years that offensive balance and success starts with the O-line. Until that is addressed, Shanny could put Sam Bradford or Andrew Luck behind this group, and they might look like Vinny Testaverde, circa 1988 in Tampa (when he threw an unthinkable 35 INTs!!!).

In conclusion, I want the top 3 picks in the next draft to be a QB and two O-linemen. There is a time to draft for need, and we have reached that point with Shanny's anemic offense. I can only hope that he agrees.[/quote]Do you think there is a trend towards moving in the direction away from big name free agents and towards draft selections? If you think there is progress in this direction, what do you make of the 2010 offseason w/McNabb, the coaching hires, the Haynesworth saga, the way Hall/Rogers/Landry were managed, the defensive moves?

I think I can tell which way you are leaning with your last paragraph, but do tell me, how much confidence do you have that come May 2012, this is actually the path we are on?

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=Beemnseven;859369][B]A hurry up offense? You want us to go 3 and out quicker and provide even less of a breather for the D?[/B]

There isn't a coach alive today you'd have faith in with the time so far allowed to rebuild this team.[/quote]

LOL. Didn't think of it that way.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=Lotus;859377]I see that he gets guys open, too. But someone who designs nice pass plays is a "play designer," not "offensive coordinator." To be the latter also requires play calling and scheming which is suitable to your talent.

I am not on the "fire Kyle" bandwagon. But to me, this year he has been a great play designer but poor offensive coordinator.[/quote]


[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]This is the way i see Kyle too; more as a play designer and not a complete coordinator. [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Because Kyle doesnt game plan to exploit an opponent’s weaknesses, and combined with our offensive play and some of the questionable play calling weve seen i think its fair to assume that Kyle also doesnt call plays based on our own teams strengths and weaknesses. Its almost like we could only see Kyles offense come to full fruition if he was in a highly talented vacuum, like coaching the probowl or playing Madden. But while his offensive p[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]hilosophy make work in vitro when you take it out in the field it seems to stumble. [/FONT][/COLOR]
[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I agree that the QB is the most important player on the field and that if we were able to switch Grossman for Aaron Rodgers our offense would instantly look better and Greenbay’s would immediately be worse. But I think Green Bay would do things differently with Grossman under center to mitigate the drop-off in talent, while I see Kyle calling the same players with Rodgers that he has with McNabb/Grossman/Beck/Grossman. NFL rosters and positions are dynamic and I think the best coordinators are too. [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Im not on the fire Kyle bandwagon either, but i am for Mike taking controll over the offense and/or demanding that Kyle do things differently. [/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;859373]It's Monday, and I'm looking to stir the pot a little bit. Does anyone want to present the argument for, "the Skins are moving in the right direction?" What is this being based on?[/quote]I wish I could, but the best I can come up with is Vinny & Zorn are gone and Snyder doesn't appear to be playing FF with the team anymore with BA as GM.

As long as MS/KS/Haslett are here, no matter how we upgrade talent, on O we'll struggle in the Red Zone thanks to the heavy reliance on the pass and the ZB scheme. There's obviously an unwillingness to tailor the scheme to the talent available.

I think Haslett has done a B/B- job with what he has on D. I still think we're beter in a 4-3 alignment with Rak & Kerrigan being able to focus full time on their strengths (hand-in-dirt, get after QB) than in the 3-4 with those two learning new techniques. We still have no true NT. If we're staying 3-4 I'd love a more one-gap attacking style, which we won't do.

I think we'll improve if we hit on a true franchise caliber QB (but what team wouldn't). With the current coaching staff and philosophy, I don't see us ever progressing to be an elite team.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

Also ive defended them before so i will continue...... I love Larry, Sonny and Sam. You have to treat the senile/drunk/sleepy/wrong things that Sam says as part of his persona or celebrity. If you try to compare him to traditional color commentators hes going to look awful. Hes there for comic relief. I absolutely hated Denis Miller and Tony Kornhizer, but think of him along those lines. Just like they were in the booth to be funny (even though they wernt and were just painfully horrible) think of Sam’s role as the same but unintentional.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

What talent is there to tailor the scheme to?

Seriously though, we do make adjustments to the defense (case in point, screens to Helu against the Niners). But, what team goes changing their scheme week to week? You have to have a philosophy and stick with it for the most part.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=mlmpetert;859419]Also ive defended them before so i will continue...... I love Larry, Sonny and Sam. You have to treat the senile/drunk/sleepy/wrong things that Sam says as part of his persona or celebrity. If you try to compare him to traditional color commentators hes going to look awful. Hes there for comic relief. I absolutely hated Denis Miller and Tony Kornhizer, but think of him along those lines. Just like they were in the booth to be funny (even though they wernt and were just painfully horrible) think of Sam’s role as the same but unintentional.[/quote]

Huff is plain awful. I can't find any way to defend him

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

I agree with SmootSmack. Moss and Davis were the focal points of our passing game. We ran to the left because Trent and Lich blocked well for us.Now Helu, they should be featuring more. Other than that, what do we really have? Our right side of the OL is just passable in both run blocking and pass pro. Rex is inconsistent and Beck is a scrub.

Also, the ZBS does take some time to settle in. Houston used to have a completely awful running game before 2010. Now they are tops in the league with almost the exact same OL.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;859422]What talent is there to tailor the scheme to?

Seriously though, we do make adjustments to the defense (case in point, screens to Helu against the Niners). But, what team goes changing their scheme week to week? You have to have a philosophy and stick with it for the most part.[/quote]A couple of the Grossman INTs this year have been the result of poor play design. I get not being able to win with John Beck at quarterback, but we've been underwhelming offensively in 5 out of 6 Grossman starts this year.

Our play action game this year has been particularly dreadful. We're putting a max of three receivers in the pattern against play action, and the goal is typically some form of vertical stretch to one side of the field. But by staying deep on the play, the defenses are forcing us to throw in front of the safeties, and the timing of the plays are creating interception opportunities for the linebackers.

We're not manipulating the defense with crazy formations because thats not what Kyle (or Mike) likes to do. Clearly the offense is timing based. And the timing of our passing plays falls right into the hands of opportunistic players. I don't think Kyle is at fault because we can't get behind the safeties, except in one way: we never see single high safety looks because teams aren't afraid of being hurt by the run.

You can win football games by attacking in front of the safeties, but we don't ever win the risk-reward conundrum. Kyle's offense doesn't get receivers open. The receivers get themselves open. Unless they don't.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;859422]What talent is there to tailor the scheme to?

Seriously though, we do make adjustments to the defense (case in point, screens to Helu against the Niners). But, what team goes changing their scheme week to week? You have to have a philosophy and stick with it for the most part.[/quote]You have an offensive philosophy, but you put emphasis on where the opponent is weak and tailor the gameplan to exploit the weaknesses. Screens against the 49ers were fine, but outside of that we've seen little creativity in O gameplanning this year. (17rush - 32pass yesterday)

The talent here is weak at QB and WR, but we [I]had[/I] three solid runners and [I]had[/I] two strong TEs...yet we continue to work the pass game and almost ignore the run/PA game. We pass on almost every 3-2 or 3-3. If the goal is to win, you can't put weak talent in a position to fail, again, and again, and again. If the goal is to prepare for next season, keep the offensive philosophy in place "talent level be damned", and get the young guys used to the system, then we'll be dealing with a 3-out/no TD offense the rest of this year.

It's very clear to me a decison has been made that Kyle's system from Houston is the way we're staying....but what if we don't get the QB next year? What if we get a QB and he busts? I think the reliance on the current system (puts too much pressure on the QB position while we have no QB), reluctance to use a more balanced attack, and vanilla ZB run scheme is mistaken.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

All fair points. I agree that there's no way to know if a QB will bust. It's a risk you take. I guess we won't really know until we get that QB.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;859416]I wish I could, but the best I can come up with is Vinny & Zorn are gone and Snyder doesn't appear to be playing FF with the team anymore with BA as GM.

As long as MS/KS/Haslett are here, no matter how we upgrade talent, on O we'll struggle in the Red Zone thanks to the heavy reliance on the pass and the ZB scheme. There's obviously an unwillingness to tailor the scheme to the talent available.

I think Haslett has done a B/B- job with what he has on D. I still think we're beter in a 4-3 alignment with Rak & Kerrigan being able to focus full time on their strengths (hand-in-dirt, get after QB) than in the 3-4 with those two learning new techniques. We still have no true NT. If we're staying 3-4 I'd love a more one-gap attacking style, which we won't do.

I think we'll improve if we hit on a true franchise caliber QB (but what team wouldn't). With the current coaching staff and philosophy, I don't see us ever progressing to be an elite team.[/quote]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Wow, this is almost exactly the way i feel, but said much better then what i could have typed out. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I truly believe that that solely relying on a ZB running scheme can only work if you have a top 5 QB, otherwise defenses will consistently beat you in the redzone and short yardage situations. Unfortunately finding and developing a guy into a top 5 QB is a rare and long process. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=black]I also think the change from the 4-3 to 3-4 was a much bigger issue then people generally acknowledge, primarily because of the opportunity cost associated with making the switch; the entire rest of the team was put on hold and possible even set back to fix something that wasn’t broken. “Fixing” the d was a luxury that we wernt in the position to have. [/COLOR][/FONT]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]But to me it’s less the coaching staff and more the current philosophy, maybe those are one in the same but I think philosophy can change and that’s why I see room for improvement. And imagine if we brought in a new coaching staff that wanted to change the d back to a 4-3 base and do entirely away with the ZB system, we would be just as bad in 2 years as we are now, maybe worse. So now that we wasted 2 years on fixing our D I think we can put less effort in upgrading it and focus on the offense a little. Id also love to go to a partial ZB scheme that incorporated plays suited for short yardage situations, but most importantly id like to see our coaches become more adaptive and less uncompromising in their philosophies. [/FONT][/COLOR]