re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=SmootSmack;871952]I mean I wish we had added a QB, namely Locker has he been available. But I get the impression a lot of people think that not adding a QB means the team just sat on its ass and made no improvements anywhere else on the roster. We're not there yet but we definitely added some key pieces.[/quote]I would say there's a large difference between saying the Redskins have not improved at all at any position on the football field, which isn't true at all, vs. looking around the league at all teams and wondering exactly how many of them haven't improved at least as much in the last two years as the Redskins have.

In a vacuum, the Redskins under Shanahan have been great. Against other teams in the NFL, meh, not so much. And the quarterback situation is seemingly a large part of that.

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

sorry NC I'm a HUGE Shanny guy but he ****ed up with our QB sit and did last year too.

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;871946]Especially when you have John Beck and Rex Grossman already on your roster. That would just be a waste of a pick, with the fact that they're never going to see the field and all.[/quote]

If you are trying to make a point that Rex and Beck aren't the answer, then you are wasting your time. I already know this. I've said this all along. However, Rex outplayed McNabb when he was here.


I don't think we are ever going to agree with the "there were better options" part. Sure, but many of those options weren't that big of a upgrade and the cost for that minor upgrade wasn't worth it.

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=SmootSmack;871952]I mean I wish we had added a QB, namely Locker has he been available. But I get the impression a lot of people think that [B]not adding a QB means the team just sat on its ass and made no improvements anywhere else on the roster[/B]. We're not there yet but we definitely added some key pieces.[/quote]I'm sure the bolded is an inaccurate assumption of many posters viewpoints.
I'm sure many like myself can separately judge decisions.
Making a mistake in one areas doesn't equate to making a mistake in all areas.
I think assumptions like that needlessly lumps people into pigeon holes.

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=NC_Skins;871964]If you are trying to make a point that Rex and Beck aren't the answer, then you are wasting your time. I already know this. I've said this all along. However, Rex outplayed McNabb when he was here.


I don't think we are ever going to agree with the "there were better options" part. Sure, but many of those options weren't that big of a upgrade and the cost for that minor upgrade wasn't worth it.[/quote]

Dude, every QB in the league was a potential option if the trade or $$ parameters were correct.

Shanny could have been more aggressive finding a QB but wasn't.

Hopefully that will make him VERY aggressive in finding a QB this spring.

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;871962]sorry NC I'm a HUGE Shanny guy but he ****ed up with our QB sit and did last year too.[/quote]

I'll be the first in line to say Shanny ****ed up the McNabb trade. Never liked that deal from day one.

This year? I think with the lockout and limited options in the FA market, he probably had no other choice. As soon as the lockout ended, training camp basically started the next day.

Also, I never believe paying a 36 year old Hasselbeck $21 million dollars was worth the slight upgrade he may have been at QB. Hell, he every well may have been worse than Rex here.

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=Lotus;871968]Dude, every QB in the league was a potential option if the trade or $$ parameters were correct.

Shanny could have been more aggressive finding a QB but wasn't.

Hopefully that will make him VERY aggressive in finding a QB this spring.[/quote]



Did you just forget about that whole lockout or what?

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=30gut;871967]I'm sure the bolded is an inaccurate assumption of many posters viewpoints.
I'm sure many like myself can separately judge decisions.
Making a mistake in one areas doesn't equate to making a mistake in all areas.
I think assumptions like that needlessly lumps people into pigeon holes.[/quote]

Well like I said its my impression. Plus if I'm being totally honest I'm thinking of one person in particular who gives me this impression. But it's not you, and I won't call this person out

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=NC_Skins;871975]Did you just forget about that whole lockout or what?[/quote]

Did you forget that every team in the league managed to add many new pieces through trades and FA despite the lockout?

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

I'm worried that Shanny is going to draft Landry. He's got the tools, but the guy is locked in to one receiver at all times and when it wasn't Broyles, he sucked.

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=NC_Skins;871964]However, Rex outplayed McNabb when he was here.[/quote]
[quote]Backup Rex Grossman was not the answer, either: His -19.4% passing DVOA was far worse than McNabb, who put up a 0.1% DVOA before being benched.[/quote][url=http://www.footballoutsiders.com/four-downs/2011/four-downs-nfc-east]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Four Downs: NFC East[/url]

[quote]I don't think we are ever going to agree with the "there were better options" part. Sure, but many of those options weren't that big of a upgrade and the cost for that minor upgrade wasn't worth it.[/quote]Degrees of upgrade not withstanding, I think you see that were options.

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=Lotus;871985]Did you forget that every team in the league managed to add many new pieces despite the lockout?[/quote]


At QB? Really? Which ones?

Remember, training camp opened a few days after the lockout lifted.

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=30gut;871957]Um yeah, YOU need to listen to your own advice.
Rex finished 18th when sorted for yardage.
He's 28th when sorted for QB rating.

You don't need to address it because [I][B][U]you[/U][/B][/I] suggested it, not me.

True, but if you consider trading up an option you can count him, I don't but since you mentioned it.

But, he was an option they just chose not draft him in the 1st or were unable or unwilling to trade up for him in the second.


Hello?

Here is the list for the last time:

[B]Every QB that was available in FA that finished better then 28th in NFL (e.g. Matt Moore, Alex Smith etc)
[/B]
Every QB in the draft after Newton and Locker (e.g. Dalton to TJ Yates etc)

Every tradeable journeymen QB (e.g. Matt Flynn, Joe Webb etc)

All the QBs that fall into those groups mentioned above would make up the list.

To sum:
Every team that has better QB play(which is roughly 29 teams) made a more successful offseason decision at the QB position.
Even the 3 teams with worse QB play (Rams, Colts and Jags) arguably still are better off.
Unless your ready to write off a QB after less then 2 seasons the Rams and Jags have their QBs of the future.
And the Colts have changed from Painter to Dan Orlovsky who has a higher rating the Rex.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
In an effort to not sidetrack this thread anymore we can agree to disagree.
You think choosing Rex and Beck was a good decision I don't.
Can we discuss Flynn?[/quote]


Out of curiousity, which sorry franchises were worse then us at the qb position?

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=SmootSmack;871981]Well like I said its my impression. Plus if I'm being totally honest I'm thinking of one person in particular who gives me this impression. But it's not you, and I won't call this person out[/quote]For some reason this popped into my head:

[quote]Oh, what you mean the sacks and stuff?[/quote]

But, the QB position is kinda a big deal though.

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=WaldSkins;872012]Out of curiousity, which sorry franchises were worse then us at the qb position?[/quote]Colts, Rams and Jags.

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=30gut;872015]Colts, Rams and Jags.[/quote]

Don't forget the Browns.

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=30gut;871990]Degrees of upgrade not withstanding, I think you see that were options.[/quote]

Yes. If the argument is "are there options" then the answer is always yes there are options. However, when you factor in the costs and weigh the benefit of said options, they really become non-options at that point.

I would have had no problem with them bringing in Hasselbeck, but not for $21 million. Very likely he would have duplicated the same stats he had his last year in Seattle as well. Titans have more on offense than we do for sure.

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=NC_Skins;871991]At QB? Really? Which ones?[/quote]
Every team that drafted/signed or traded for a QB.

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=NC_Skins;872017]Yes. If the argument is "are there options" then the answer is always yes there are options. However, when you factor in the costs and weigh the benefit of said options, they really become non-options at that point.[/quote]All that bluster for this?
Which was what I was saying in the first place about rationalization?

Wouldn't have been easier just to agree 2 pages ago?

J/K

HTTR

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=NC_Skins;871964]I don't think we are ever going to agree with the "there were better options" part. Sure, but many of those options weren't that big of a upgrade and the cost for that minor upgrade wasn't worth it.[/quote]Which is defensible, but the fact that the Redskins really didn't even consider other options was delusional.

Understand that factually, Mike Shanahan has done both of these things in two seasons:

1) Dealt Jason Campbell for a fourth round pick and acquired Donovan McNabb for a second round pick and a fourth round pick.

OR gave up draft pick value because his evaluation of the situation here was that the QB situation wasn't adequate.

2) Traded Donovan McNabb for a sixth round pick w/a conditional sixth.

OR traded away a player he was admitting a mistake on because he evaluated his QB depth as MORE than adequate.

In the winter of 2010, he decided that the Redskins didn't have a starting caliber quarterback on their roster, and made a trade for one. In the summer of 2011, he decided that the Redskins had totally solved their QB situation, at least in the short term, if he could just get that McNabb guy out.

No matter where you believe the mistake was made on McNabb, he could not have been correct on the quality of his existing roster in both 2010 and 2011. The ONLY thing he changed was that he acquired McNabb. Nothing else changed from the roster he inherited. Either that, or his standards for what a QB were coming over from Denver dropped significantly when he got here.

Grossman was a backup QB in 2010, and was a starting QB in 2011? Really? No one could believe that could they? No, what changed re: McNabb was Beck. Beck went from a roster filler to a desired veteran. Grossman was still Grossman the whole time. Beck was the acquisition that made McNabb expendable.

John Beck was judged to be a better option at quarterback than any other option. It wasn't that the options weren't there, it was that the Redskins preferred Beck.

Grossman being named starter (first or second time, w/e) was the second admission of error at the same position in the Shanahan era. Again, not a wrong decision given what Beck showed, but it was more or less a two-strike foul tip.

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;872016]Don't forget the Browns.[/quote]Actually, McCoy was ahead of Rex too.

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

Back to Flynn.
Great option last year.
This year *meh* not so much.
He would be convient in that we wouldn't need to spend a draft pick on him.

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

I didn't see him play, but I'd prefer to trade for flynn (if he is good) over reaching for a qb (if we don't believe in someone). Trust our scouting. Whoever we think is best we give the first round pick up for. I'd guess it would be flynn. Word in the preseason this year was flynn was playing even better than rodgers.

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

If we strike out on RG III, Matt Flynn should be #2 on our list of priorities. All I know is, we cannot ignore QB for another second! I love the thought of us drafting RG III, but imagine signing Flynn and being able to draft Blackmon to go alongside Hankerson. Not to mention we can always draft someone like Kellen Moore or Weedon a bit later in the draft.

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=#21Taylor4Ever;872062][B]If we strike out on RG III, Matt Flynn should be #2 on our list of priorities[/B]. All I know is, we cannot ignore QB for another second! I love the thought of us drafting RG III, but imagine signing Flynn and being able to draft Blackmon to go alongside Hankerson. Not to mention we can always draft someone like Kellen Moore or Weedon a bit later in the draft.[/quote]

Free agency starts before the draft. Flynn will be signed with someone not long after that.

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

I wouldn't be surprised if Flynn gets brought in to Cleveland since Holmgren has ties to Green Bay. That would still give us a better chance to get RG3.

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=SkinItup;872066]I wouldn't be surprised if Flynn gets brought in to Cleveland since Holmgren has ties to Green Bay. That would still give us a better chance to get RG3.[/quote]

Thats true. And we wouldn't have to trade up to get our QB at that point. Especially if Landry Jones were to declare and make the Dolphins love him.

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=SkinItup;872066]I wouldn't be surprised if Flynn gets brought in to Cleveland since Holmgren has ties to Green Bay. That would still give us a better chance to get RG3.[/quote]
I don't think Flynn has the arm strength to throw consistently in Cleveland weather. If they look at QB I expect it in the draft. Luck and RG3 will go 1-2 and there is no other 1st round qb talent, imo, after Jones recent play. If this plays out, Cleveland will have to trade up to get RG3 and with Altanta's first round pick they could package it.
Flynn will get a blockbuster deal in the first couple of days of FA but I expect it to be someone like the Dolphins, Seahawks or Jets (if the rumored arrival of Manning falls through). All three could be an immediate QB starter from the playoffs next year.
If this happens, I'd like Colt McCoy for a 3-4 pick and take someone like Tannehill to develop. This would also allow for getting someone like Morris Claiborne, Dre Kirkpatrick or Jayron Hosley (all CB's, whoever they fell is best) with the 6th pick or trade back and get one of the 3.

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

Cleveland will definitely show interest in Flynn. But from what I hear feeling isn't necessarily mutual

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=30gut;871917]I still don't get why some people are willing to rationalize every decision Mike Shanahan makes?

Grossman finished the season 28th by QB rating.

I don't think it asking too much that our QB situation not get worse each year.(Campbell to McNabb to Rex/BEck)

I don't think its too much to ask to have our QB finish better then 28th?

So unless 28th is okay with you there were better options.[/quote]

My thoughts exactly.

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=NC_Skins;871964]If you are trying to make a point that Rex and Beck aren't the answer, then you are wasting your time. I already know this. I've said this all along. However, Rex outplayed McNabb when he was here.


I don't think we are ever going to agree with the "there were better options" part. Sure, but many of those options weren't that big of a upgrade and the cost for that minor upgrade wasn't worth it.[/quote]


B.S, McNabb put up better numbers and he beat better opponents. Rogers, Vick, Romo, Cutler, etc. Rex has never beat any QB of that caliber besides Eli Manning. Plus McNabb threw for more yards, and less INT's. We would of been a playoff bound team with McNabb if the defense gave him a little more support, plus I can't count all of the dropped balls and missed field goal opportunities.

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=SmootSmack;872081]Cleveland will definitely show interest in Flynn. But from what I hear feeling isn't necessarily mutual[/quote]
Are your hearing if the Redskins are interested and Matt Flynn's interest in the Redskins. I am sure yesterdays game will cause the Redskins along with everyone else to reevaluate Matt Flynn. I am sure he just popped on a bunch of teams radar.

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

So everytime a back -up QB plays well he gets a thread? Did anyone watch that game? Cause I did and Detriot has got to be the worst defense in the NFL. Piss poor tackling, a lot of break downs in coverage. Not saying Flynn didn't do his part but I'm not giving up a lot to get him.

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=skinsfan69;872097]So everytime a back -up QB plays well he gets a thread? Did anyone watch that game? Cause I did and Detriot has got to be the worst defense in the NFL. Piss poor tackling, a lot of break downs in coverage. Not saying Flynn didn't do his part but I'm not giving up a lot to get him.[/quote]
Its not out in left field buddy. He was already the top rated free agent QB. The knock was there was such a small body of work. Well he still has a small body of work, but he went in and blew the doors of the building. He also set a record, C'Mon Man.

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=skinsfan69;872097]So everytime a back -up QB plays well he gets a thread? Did anyone watch that game? Cause I did and Detriot has got to be the worst defense in the NFL. Piss poor tackling, a lot of break downs in coverage. Not saying Flynn didn't do his part but I'm not giving up a lot to get him.[/quote]

Living in New Orleans, I've watched Flynn ever since he took over the reins at LSU from Jamarcus Russell. I have always thought he was underwhelming, not bad, just not impressive. I did watch the Green Bay game yesterday and was very impressed with his play. He played a great game and MADE plays, not just managed the game. I have to say, that I would view Flynn as an upgrade over Rex, but with so small a sample of his body of work in the pros, I fear that most Skins fans will be in for a rude awakening if/when he would become our QB. I believe that in Flynn we would be getting a 'game manager' in the mold of a Brad Johnson. Above average as far as game managers go, but no really outstanding skills or playmaking that bump him into the elite category. I have no problem with bringing him in, I just would hate to see the fans get all worked up, (like with McNugget), only to be let down when reality comes crashing down once again.

:twocents:

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

Hopefully, IND signs Flynn.

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=diehard;872104]Hopefully, IND signs Flynn.[/quote]

Wait, having Luck and Manning isn't enough? :doh:

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=Shadowbyte;872083]B.S, McNabb put up better numbers and he beat better opponents. Rogers, Vick, Romo, Cutler, etc. Rex has never beat any QB of that caliber besides Eli Manning. Plus McNabb threw for more yards, and less INT's.[B] We would of been a playoff bound team with McNabb [/B]if the defense gave him a little more support, plus I can't count all of the dropped balls and missed field goal opportunities.[/quote]

LOL! Please put the crack pipe down. McNabb is finished. That's why Philadelphia was willing to give him up to a division opponent.

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=irish;871674]I'd take my chances with Flyn waaay before I'd hitch my wagon to RGIII.[/quote]

ummmm are you out of your mind?

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

I hope and think the Skins stay away from Flynn. I could see him playing for the Jets though and maybe Sanchez is reunited with Pete Carol in a three way deal.