Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=warriorzpath;896217]Yeah, it's a blessing in disguise for Dan Snyder. He saves 36 million dollars in salary in a period of 2 years.[/quote]

Still would have to give it up to other teams. except the raiders and someone else that i forgot.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

i want to lawyer up

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=donofriose;896234]The league does but the owners don't so what I think happend behind closed doors is the owners found out and told godell to do something about it. Plus a lot of organizations don't really like the skins or the cowboys because of our net worth and how valuable we are to the nfl.[/quote]

if there was no offical document or rules for doing it then how can the league take actions. damn the saints better get hammered hard.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Ruhskins;896235]Haynesworth guaranteed money $21 mil, Hall $15 mil = $36 mil[/quote]

Thats fine, but I still dont get how they would assume that we would have paid them $0 otherwise?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

The timing of it (1 day before FA) is what pisses me off... The league could've picked an earlier or later date to inform us of this

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=redskins5044;896238]if there was no offical document or rules for doing it then how can the league take actions. damn the saints better get hammered hard.[/quote]

There doesn't have to be, the NFL is a business that is owned by individuals, if the majority of the individuals want to punish another owner they can. Love it or hate it we have to live with it.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

The haynesworth contract was negotiated 3 or 4 years ago, what the heck? When did they warn them? The timeline is pretty important.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=donofriose;896243]There doesn't have to be, the NFL is a business that is owned by individuals, if the majority of the individuals want to punish another owner they can. Love it or hate it we have to live with it.[/quote]

You are correct, but I still want the league to explain why they approved the restructured deals. If they were a violation of the uncapped year, all they had to say is no to the restructures.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Gmanc711;896218]So this is the case on how we got to that... if I'm the Redskins, I'm at least contesting that this should be shaved by a minimum of 10 million dollars. They would have gotten some type of a bonus that year... this is such a joke.



ESPN 980 ‏ @ESPNRadio980

* Reply
* RetweetedRetweet
* Delete
* FavoritedFavorite
* · Close Open Details

Andrew Brandt NFP it was the contracts of [B]Al & D-Hall[/B] that caused NFL 2 punish Skins.Al got $21m, while Hall got $15m in 2010[/quote]

I don't like either guys, one of them was a FA bust. We get penalized for two players, one who is gone, the other looks like he'll be gone. We look poised for a great offseason of getting more FAs. We then find out that we go from having a huge cap to barely any cap at all. This is sign of not going out signing more FA's because in some way were getting screwed. I'm joking, because we have had a few successes from FA, but still why is it we're getting screwed by FA's all the time?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

I don't care if there was an agreement or not. An "agreement" is a hell of a lot different than a legally binding contract or an operational set of rules. Just deciding together not to do it means nothing unless they officially enacted some type of resolution with established rules and consequences. Or at least something that officially forbade it. And why in the world wasn't the solution just to void the contracts at the time?

"Hey don't break any rules that don't really exists or else!!!! Or else, or else we'll let you do it and a whole season later we'll make up a punishment that we have no idea what it could be for now but it'll be bad! NO really don't break the non-existent rule we all agreed to but probably shouldn't ever let the players know about since it can't possibly be legal. Hey wait!! Stop breaking the 'rule'!! "

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;896200]Thats a very good point, if true. Haynesworth would probably have gotten atleast 10 million that year, hall, maybe around 5. I definetely think that, if we're penalized, it should be based on how much the NFL thinks we should have paid out in later years as opposed to just the uncapped year.[/quote]


Yeah but if we are breaking the rules then Goodell and other teams probably feel that we need to be punished too. Still seems pretty excessive.

That second round pick to the Rams stings even more now. No ability to trade down... well, unless.....

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=mlmpetert;896251]Yeah but if we are breaking the rules then Goodell and other teams probably feel that we need to be punished too. Still seems pretty excessive.

That second round pick to the Rams stings even more now. No ability to trade down... well, unless.....[/quote]

If we were breaking the rules, all Goodell had to do is not approve the restructured contracts. Unless restructured contracts don't get approved by the league.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Was Haynesworth deal ever restructured?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Goodell should be removed.

There was a lockout... his job is literally to keep the NFL running smoothly and he failed. Football has become a softer sport which is not way we watch it and a lot of his penalties seem to be penalties based on opinions. Wanted an 18 game season which would water down the sport, keeps trying to make it international which won't ever work. Doesn't truly care about player safety in my opinion just trying to appeal to the majority of americans. Trying to make football every night of the week which ruins the traditions... Thanksgiving isn't a night for thursday night football. Cowboys and Lions, keep with the tradition. friday: high school, saturday: college, sunday: NFL, and a single primetime monday night football game, that is all. I do not like Goodell as you can tell.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Ruhskins;896254]If we were breaking the rules, all Goodell had to do is not approve the restructured contracts. Unless restructured contracts don't get approved by the league.[/quote]
There was no "rule". Or at least based on current reporting all it was was an "agreement". And yes the proper and fair solution was to disallow the restructurings. But no they couldn't do that at the time because the "agreement" is blatant collusion. Sorta would have been bad in the middle of a labor negotiation to deny a contract and say it was based on an "agreement" (euphemism for collusion) amongst the owners.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=FRPLG;896248]I don't care if there was an agreement or not. An "agreement" is a hell of a lot different than a legally binding contract or an operational set of rules. Just deciding together not to do it means nothing unless they officially enacted some type of resolution with established rules and consequences. Or at least something that officially forbade it. And why in the world wasn't the solution just to void the contracts at the time?

"Hey don't break any rules that don't really exists or else!!!! Or else, or else we'll let you do it and a whole season later we'll make up a punishment that we have no idea what it could be for now but it'll be bad! NO really don't break the non-existent rule we all agreed to but probably shouldn't ever let the players know about since it can't possibly be legal. Hey wait!! Stop breaking the 'rule'!! "[/quote]

This.

Further:

[quote]This seems a pretty ridiculous thing for the league to do. Either the year is uncapped or it's not. [B]To tell teams, "Yeah, it's uncapped, but don't spend too much this year just because of that, or we'll fine you for it down the road" feels a little bit like collusion to me. [/B]But this is the NFL, which does what it wants and makes up the rules as it goes along. The Cowboys and the Redskins surely know that, and the fact that they were the only two teams found to have engaged egregiously enough in this behavior to deserve a huge loss of salary-cap space indicates that they should have known better. I mean, when you're found to be dirtier than the Raiders and the Saints, you kind of have to look in the mirror and re-think the way you're doing business.[/quote]

[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/54985/cowboys-redskins-punished-but-why]Cowboys, Redskins punished ... but why? - NFL Nation Blog - ESPN[/url]

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

We shot ourselves in the foot folks, no sense in looking for someone else to blame.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=redskins5044;896255]Was Haynesworth deal ever restructured?[/quote]

Oh yes. We are absolutely "guilty" on this.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation]NFL Nation Blog - ESPN[/url]

It seems to me the Redskins and Cowboys are being unnecessarily punished here

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Mattyk;896264]We shot ourselves in the foot folks, no sense in looking for someone else to blame.[/quote]

Do explain...

Perhaps you could explain how we are to follow non-existent rules.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=SmootSmack;896266][url=http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation]NFL Nation Blog - ESPN[/url]

It seems to me the Redskins and Cowboys are being unnecessarily punished here[/quote]

Much better read than Florio's turd-pile of letters he passed of as a story.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

my question now is, what top rate FA is going to want to come here now, with this looming, and even more penalties for next season? Kind of ridiculous they dont at least shave 10-15 mil off, the two players were not going to get 0 dollars in a bonus. This seems very calculated by the league. Im not a big conspiracy theorist, but this just smells really wrong.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=FRPLG;896267]Do explain...

Perhaps you could explain how we are to follow non-existent rules.[/quote]

Rules or not, if the league is telling you to not do something, and you do it anyway, what do you expect?

[quote]But this is the NFL, which does what it wants and makes up the rules as it goes along. The Cowboys and the Redskins surely know that, and the fact that they were the only two teams found to have engaged egregiously enough in this behavior to deserve a huge loss of salary-cap space indicates that they should have known better.

[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/54985/cowboys-redskins-punished-but-why]Cowboys, Redskins punished ... but why? - NFL Nation Blog - ESPN[/url][/quote]

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;896266][url=http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation]NFL Nation Blog - ESPN[/url]

It seems to me the Redskins and Cowboys are being unnecessarily punished here[/QUOTE]

This is bull shit of course always the skins! Man we have one good thing finally and we get shit on

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Mattyk;896271]Rules or not, if the league is telling you to not do something, and you do it anyway, what do you expect?[/quote]

I expect the league to follow actual rules. Not make shit up as they go along. It's sort of how a civilized society works.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Again, i really want to know what the NFLPA thinks about this:

1) its taking away salary cap space from teams poised to actually spend it, and giving 1.6MM extra to teams, many of which have no intention of spending it.

2) there was no salary cap, and no CBA during 2010. Essentialy, what the skins and cowboys are being penalized for is not "colluding" with the other 30 teams to violate antitrust laws and limit player salaries when they had no authority to do so.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=FRPLG;896274]I expect the league to follow actual rules. Not make shit up as they go along. It's sort of how a civilized society works.[/quote]

Or to enforce the rules by not approving restructured contracts that violate their own rules (if that is the case).

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;896275]Again, i really want to know what the NFLPA thinks about this:

1) its taking away salary cap space from teams poised to actually spend it, and giving 1.6MM extra to teams, many of which have no intention of spending it.

2) there was no salary cap, and no CBA during 2010. Essentialy, what the skins and cowboys are being penalized for is not "colluding" with the other 30 teams to violate antitrust laws and limit player salaries when they had no authority to do so.[/quote]
Well the 1.6 to the other teams makes up for it. The player pool stayed the same.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

The fact that they allowed the contracts at the time and warned teams "or else" screams collusion. NORMALLY the league would have simply rejected the deals. In the midst of the labor dispute that would have been bad because they would have had to offer an explanation that would have been 1000000000% put into play as possible collusion.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

From Andrew Brandt:

Andrew Brandt ‏ @adbrandt
The "Uncapped League Year" article in previous CBA makes no mention of any warning to teams. Sense that push for this came from teams.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=FRPLG;896265]Oh yes. We are absolutely "guilty" on this.[/quote]

Im wondering if thats how they came up with the full 21 million for him. If it was an option bonus we wouldnt have paid nearly any of it, i would think. Dont know about the 15 on Hall though.

[url=http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jul/21/more-haynesworth-drama-taking-shape/]Redskins’ Albert Haynesworth plans to report to training camp - Washington Times[/url]

It’s unknown whether the club has tried to recoup at least a portion of the $22 million in signing bonus money paid to [URL="http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/albert-haynesworth/"][COLOR=#0066cc]Haynesworth[/COLOR][/URL] during the 2010 season.

Signing bonuses were subject to forfeiture under the recently expired collective bargaining agreement between the league and the players’ union, and the [URL="http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/washington-redskins/"][COLOR=#0066cc]Redskins[/COLOR][/URL] protected themselves last offseason when they converted [URL="http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/albert-haynesworth/"][COLOR=#0066cc]Haynesworth[/COLOR][/URL]’s $21 million option bonus to a signing bonus.

The additional $1 million is a prorated portion of the $5 million signing bonus [URL="http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/albert-haynesworth/"][COLOR=#0066cc]Haynesworth[/COLOR][/URL] earned when he signed with the [URL="http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/washington-redskins/"][COLOR=#0066cc]Redskins[/COLOR][/URL].

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

I think we're still in decent cap shape, just not "outstanding" like we were a few hours ago

And who knows, maybe they did this on purpose. A kind of "beg for forgiveness, rather than ask for permission". Perhaps the penalty ultimately was not as bad as not restructuring the deals in the first place"

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=FRPLG;896280]The fact that they allowed the contracts at the time and warned teams "or else" screams collusion. NORMALLY the league would have simply rejected the deals. In the midst of the labor dispute that would have been bad because they would have had to offer an explanation that would have been 1000000000% put into play as possible collusion.[/quote]


Damn good point. I wonder if the NFL has language in the CBA to address this issue in some way though?

A statement from the NFLPA would be nice.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=FRPLG;896277]Well the 1.6 to the other teams makes up for it. The player pool stayed the same.[/quote]

yes, but my point was a number of those teams are grossly under the cap every year (bengals, bucs, etc.), so the money is going to waste.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Mattyk;896271]Rules or not, [B]if the league is telling you to not do something[/B], and you do it anyway, what do you expect?[/quote]

Except we [I]were[/I] following the rules and the league was attempting to collude to void the prior rules set forth in the prior CBA which specifically said that there was to be an uncapped year.

The uncapped year was something that to which all parties had agreed (players and owners). The uncapped year had been included as an intended poison pill. The owners knew what could happen as a result of it when they agreed to it - essentially, the salary cap would be busted for at least a year. That was the specific intent of that provision - to destroy the limitations created by the salary cap in hopes that it would be an incentive for the teams to reup the prior CBA. It failed to do so and some of the intended effects occurred.

The NFL management is now saying "We are punishing you for taking advantage of what this provision was specifically intended to do (f*** up the salary cap system)". IMHO, this is simply wrong and probably a violation of the labor laws governing collective bargining.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Saves them from signing a few more OJ Atoghwe's:)

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=SmootSmack;896285]I think we're still in decent cap shape, just not "outstanding" like we were a few hours ago

And who knows, maybe they did this on purpose. A kind of "beg for forgiveness, rather than ask for permission". Perhaps the penalty ultimately was not as bad as not restructuring the deals in the first place"[/quote]

If we split the $36M 50/50 against next year, we're already back up to around $17.5M in room with the Sellers and Atogwe cuts.

Not exactly cap hell.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

F'ing owners...

Rich Campbell ‏ @Rich_Campbell
It sounds to me like the owners strong-armed the union into agreeing to the penalties against WAS/DAL. Wild stuff.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Mattyk;896292]If we split the $36M 50/50 against next year, we're already back up to around $17.5M in room with the Sellers and Atogwe cuts.

Not exactly cap hell.[/quote]right, not great. just good

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=mlmpetert;896286]Damn good point. I wonder if the NFL has language in the CBA to address this issue in some way though?

A statement from the NFLPA would be nice.[/quote]

as ashamed as i am, i actually sent florio and e-mail and raised this issue. no one else in the media seems to be raising it yet, and id love to have it addressed. without a CBA in place, the teams had not right to collude in this manner.