Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

[quote=saden1;925698]Take it easy man, we don't want you to exert your brain too much. Still, you can do better than poking fun at the words describe a class of weapons.

It may not make sense to ban deer rifles but it sure as shit makes sense to ban AR-15s. Those type of weapons serve one purpose and one purpose only, assault people and in mass at a rapid and constant pace. For your run of the mill home invasions I am sure a hand gun is more than sufficient. [B]You can have those.[/B]


...I guess we'll have to wait until foreign terrorists start shooting people at the malls before we ban these weapons.[/quote]

Bless you Sir!!!

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

Would you guys rather be a surviving victim of a lone gunman whole killed 12 and wounded you and 58 others, or would you rather be a surviving victim of a bomb that hurt and killed the same number? Id take being shot than having something exploded on me and those around me. Being shot at least affords the opportunity to fight back.

My point is this guy is crazy. If you want to cause mass harm you can. Banning guns of any type wont stop that.

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

[quote=saden1;925698]Take it easy man, we don't want you to exert your brain too much. Still, you can do better than poking fun at the words describe a class of weapons.

It may not make sense to ban deer rifles but it sure as shit makes sense to ban AR-15s. Those type of weapons serve one purpose and one purpose only, assault people and in mass at a rapid and constant pace. For your run of the mill home invasions I am sure a hand gun is more than sufficient. You can have those.


...I guess we'll have to wait until foreign terrorists start shooting people at the malls before we ban these weapons.[/quote]

No, wrong.
A semi auto over the counter "deer rifle" can put lead downfield as fast as any over the counter semi auto you want to classify as an "assualt rifle".
If the AR was semi auto, its capability to kill is equal to a deer rifle
And your serve one purpose only statement is ridiculous.
Every one I've ever seen does nothing but put holes in paper targets.

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

[quote=Mattyk;925703]I can't imagine why banning assault rifles would be a bad thing. Yes the laws on the books need to be enforced, but I think the laws can also be significantly tightened up as well. I hate that saying how guns don't kill people. Ok it's more like guns in the hands of people kill people, but still that argument is weak and glosses over the issue.[/quote]

Define assault rifle.....
If you are talking about an automatic rifle/weapon then their are already widespread bannings and restrictions.
And if he acquired one illegally, well then you are going to have to talk the military into melting all theirs down so they cant get stolen and sold.
You may want to have a stern talk with international smugglers too.

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

I'm going to manufacture a new line of baseball bat.
I'll call it the Assault Bat.
Maybe someone will buy one and kill his neighbor with it.
OMG!
Bats are evil.
The media will sensationalize the name and create a bunch of hype and ignorant libs will eat it up.
Ban all baseball bats!

We're delving into another issue entirely. Fact is innocent people are dead. Maybe we should focus on that.

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

knee jerk reactions won't bring them back, nor prevent more of the same...

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;925706]No, wrong.
A semi auto over the counter "deer rifle" can put lead downfield as fast as any over the counter semi auto you want to classify as an "assualt rifle".
If the AR was semi auto, its capability to kill is equal to a deer rifle
And your serve one purpose only statement is ridiculous.
Every one I've ever seen does nothing but put holes in paper targets.[/quote]


Deer rifles use to be single round bolt action weapons but now you all these ludicrous assault weapons mascaraing as hunting gun. Sorry mlmpetert, they can be banned too.


Surely there are other satisfying ways of shooting holes in paper target.

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

If we are going to get in to the "Ban" arena, why are we banning assault weapons? What do they do that some other firearms do not? They don't really do anything that a Glock 19 (or 40k other guns do not) won't do.
If we're going to ban....let's have it work and not just just more feel good nonsense for an uninformed public.
But on the subject of Federal bans and success of same. How we doing with the ban on illegal drugs?
Lets do something that may work......

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

[quote=mlmpetert;925705]Would you guys rather be a surviving victim of a lone gunman whole killed 12 and wounded you and 58 others, or would you rather be a surviving victim of a bomb that hurt and killed the same number? Id take being shot than having something exploded on me and those around me. Being shot at least affords the opportunity to fight back.

My point is this guy is crazy. If you want to cause mass harm you can. Banning guns of any type wont stop that.[/quote]


You're not offering much of a choice, especially those who are in the line of the fire or explosion. I mean, would you rather have your eyes gouged or have the left side of your brain removed?

Banning "assault weapons" will stop someone from shooting 71 people in a crowded theater in a short period. It certainly works in the rest of the civilized world, I can't imagine it won't work here.

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

[quote=Hog1;925713]If we are going to get in to the "Ban" arena, why are we banning assault weapons. What do they do that some other firearms do not? They don't really do anything that a Glock 19 (or 40k other guns do not) won't do.
If we're going to ban....let's have it work and not just just more feel good nonsense for an uninformed public.
But on the subject of Federal bans and success of same. How we doing with the ban on illegal drugs?
Lets do something that may work......[/quote]

Balance. I think you can reasonably claim that hand guns can be used for protection where as the case simply isn't there for assault weapons, and it certainly isn't for semi-automatic machine guns masquerading as deer rifles.

100 round AR-15 clips? For what? War? Hunting?

The anti gun argument is flawed for one very simple reason: reality. These things already exist. Even if you made them illegal tomorrow, there are so many in existence through both legal and illegal channels that you will never prevent something like this. It's an undeniable tragedy but to place the blame on an inanimate object when there are countless alternatives capable of achieving the exact same level of destruction... That's just irresponsible and shortsighted thinking. If we could go back in time and "un-invent" guns (might as well get rid of nukes and all pointy objects while we've got the flux capacitor fired up) then I would agree with saden's point.

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

[quote=saden1;925715]Balance. I think you can reasonably claim that hand guns can be used for protection where as the case simply isn't there for assault weapons, and it certainly isn't for semi-automatic machine guns masquerading as deer rifles.

100 round AR-15 clips? For what? War? Hunting?[/quote]
I don't think any responsible hunter (and that assumes much) would with a straight face claim an AR-15 to be a deer rifle...yet some do no doubt.
That having been said, I do not really have a problem with a ban that would have a chance of working.
I do not believe for a moment that this type of action has any chance of success. We cannot stop the drug trade...HELL, we cannot get the borders closed and it MUST be more difficult to smuggle humans than something as small as a gun? And as has already been pointed we have 300m guns in this country........good luck
In this country, we have a serious social problem and IMO until we get serious about trying to deal with some of those issues, you can lay out any "Ban" type plan that is attractive. It will only serve to drive responsible Sportsman and shooters like myself.........underground.
Hmmm, the Sportsman formally known as Hog1.......
I did stray a bit afield....100 round clips can go, but they are amusing as long as somebody else is buying the ammo

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

Don't want this to turn into a gun rights discussion, but banning guns like the AR-15 isn't going to do diddly squat to curtail a evil man from being evil.


Name me the type of gun used by any of these mass murders.

Ted Bundy
Jeffrey Dahmer
Albert DeSalvo
Timothy McVeigh

[url=http://dailyuw.com/news/2011/feb/03/guns-dont-kill-people/]Guns don’t kill people | The Daily[/url]


..and to think I was being accused of being a dem/liberal card carrying hippie.

[quote=Mattyk;925710]We're delving into another issue entirely. Fact is innocent people are dead. Maybe we should focus on that.[/quote]

This.

Anyways, seems this kid dyed his hair red and told the cops he was "The Joker". I'd say somewhere along the line, he snapped and went over the edge. Also, I've read a crazy rumor about why his apartment was rigged with explosives.

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

Ban cars. They killed far more Americans this year than guns did.

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

Well, away from the should guns be banned topic, I'm personally glad to see this guy alive. So many times these idiots just do crazy shit then kill themselves (Columbine, VT Tech, etc) and we're all left wondering what the hell happened? What caused them to snap? Were they crazy all along? At least with this guy alive, he'll have to explain himself at some point.

I think someone mentioned they wished the guy had went along and killed himself, that's why I don't. I doubt an explanation of any sort will provide closure for those who lost their loved ones, but I'd rather be left with something instead of nothing.

And rest easy, although Colorado hasn't executed anyone in sometime, the death penalty is still alive and well there.

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;925724]Don't want this to turn into a gun rights discussion, but banning guns like the AR-15 isn't going to do diddly squat to curtail a evil man from being evil.


Name me the type of gun used by any of these mass murders.

Ted Bundy
Jeffrey Dahmer
Albert DeSalvo
Timothy McVeigh

[url=http://dailyuw.com/news/2011/feb/03/guns-dont-kill-people/]Guns don’t kill people | The Daily[/url]


..and to think I was being accused of being a dem/liberal card carrying hippie.



This.

Anyways, seems this kid dyed his hair red and told the cops he was "The Joker". I'd say somewhere along the line, he snapped and went over the edge. Also, I've read a crazy rumor about why his apartment was rigged with explosives.[/QUOTE]

What was the rumor?

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

I think this may have been his master plan. He rigged his place with explosives and trip wires and turned the music (via timer) on loud hoping to draw the police via neighbor complaints. Once the police kicked in the door, the bombs would have gone off, and it would created the diversion for him to have more time to kill.



[url=http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/national/did-aurora-co-shooting-suspect-james-holmes-try-luring-someone-into-apartment]Did Aurora, CO shooting suspect James Holmes try luring someone into apartment?[/url]


Did I mention that I was really disappointed they took this asshole alive.

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

[quote=HailGreen28;925725]Ban cars. They killed far more Americans this year than guns did.[/quote]

OMG dont say that, liberals love their cars.

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

[quote=saden1;925714]You're not offering much of a choice, especially those who are in the line of the fire or explosion. I mean, would you rather have your eyes gouged or have the left side of your brain removed?

Banning "assault weapons" will stop someone from shooting 71 people in a crowded theater in a short period. It certainly works in the rest of the civilized world, I can't imagine it won't work here.[/quote]

Yeah horrible choice regardless. Awful choices. But one of humanities saving graces, perhaps now defining faults, has been our ingenuity. If someone wants to harm a mass amount of people they will. So while banning assault weapons may stop someone from shooting 71 people, it wont necessarily stop them from killing and maiming 71 people.

More importantly a gun, even scary ones, allow a person to protect themselves. And while a handgun may suffice in most situations it certainly wont in all. When theres massive civil unrest horrible things can happen that local municipalities arnt able to calm. Its happening in Mexico right now. When the Rodney King Riots broke out it happened in LA, when Katrina hit it happened in NO.

If you have the resources to get out of dodge when something bad is brewing more power to you. But if youre too poor to leave, stuck by chance, or just want to ride it out you should have the right to protect yourselves at all means.

Guns, assault rifles, 100 round mags, and other scary things arnt the problem, theyre just the scapegoat.

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

[quote=HailGreen28;925725]Ban cars. They killed far more Americans this year than guns did.[/quote]

No lets ban flare guns and gasoline.
Because this nutjob could just have easily - propped the door open as advertised - and from his parked car brought in two large jugs of gasoline - quietly dumped them near the entrance doors - ran back to his car just outside the door for two more jugs where he could have dumped them near the middle of the audience. Fire one flare near the doors blocking their way to get out, another near the middle of the audience. He might have gotten all of them that way. Oh and he could have substituted Match Light Charcoal Briquettes for the flare gun and gotten the same results.
So how much stuff do we need to ban now?

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;925726]Well, away from the should guns be banned topic, I'm personally glad to see this guy alive. So many times these idiots just do crazy shit then kill themselves (Columbine, VT Tech, etc) and we're all left wondering what the hell happened? What caused them to snap? Were they crazy all along? At least with this guy alive, he'll have to explain himself at some point.

I think someone mentioned they wished the guy had went along and killed himself, that's why I don't. I doubt an explanation of any sort will provide closure for those who lost their loved ones, but I'd rather be left with something instead of nothing.

And rest easy, although Colorado hasn't executed anyone in sometime, the death penalty is still alive and well there.[/quote]

Im completely with you in that im glad he was taken alive. He'll suffer more pain then to have been shot dead on site and he hopefully will allow for some closure to the families.

But i cant help but think he surrendered and that he wanted to be taken alive. The dude had on a bullet proof vest, helmet, neck armor and a cup (something for guys). Apparently he didnt put up a fight or anything. The dude isnt in the hospital, hes in jail. He also apparently told police about the bombs in his apartment.

Youre a budding psychologist right? Whats your gut about this guy being taken alive? Do you think he felt remorse and surrendered and made an effort to prevent more damage? Or do you think hes wanted to be taken alive so his deranged message can be heard?

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

Well I'll say this.

I just got back from seeing the dark knight rises. Going in I thought I would be paranoid that whenever a door closed or opened or a person walking during the film would occur, that I would be looking constantly and lose my attention to the flick.


By about 5 mins in, I had lost all fears. The movie was just that great and captivating. Also there were about 5 security guards there (with guns) so that made things feel a lot safer.

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;925736]Well I'll say this.

I just got back from seeing the dark knight rises. Going in I thought I would be paranoid that whenever a door closed or opened or a person walking during the film would occur, that I would be looking constantly and lose my attention to the flick.


By about 5 mins in, I had lost all fears. The movie was just that great and captivating. Also there were about 5 security guards there (with guns) so that made things feel a lot safer.[/quote]

Just curious, were you planning on going tonight for awhile or did this somehow draw more interest or spur the decision for you or your group? Ive heard its been "sold out across America".

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;925736]Well I'll say this.

I just got back from seeing the dark knight rises. Going in I thought I would be paranoid that whenever a door closed or opened or a person walking during the film would occur, that I would be looking constantly and lose my attention to the flick.


By about 5 mins in, I had lost all fears. The movie was just that great and captivating. Also there were about 5 security guards there (with guns) so that made things feel a lot safer.[/quote]

I'm going to see it in a couple hours tonight, and I hope it ends up being the same for me as it was for you. You never know with these crazy bastards.

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

Great detail and grueling pictures in this article.


[url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2176377/The-Dark-Knight-Rises-theater-shooting--James-Holmes-looked-like-said-JOKER.html?ICO=most_read_module]The Dark Knight Rises theater shooting: James Holmes looked like and said he was the JOKER | Mail Online[/url]



Like I said in my previous post. His intention was to cause a distraction at his apartment with a radio on a timer that blasted loud music. The neighbors were to complain, call police, open door and set off bombs causing the distraction. This distraction would have allowed him to continue shooting more people, as well as killed whoever opened that door.

[url=http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/national/did-aurora-co-shooting-suspect-james-holmes-try-luring-someone-into-apartment]Did Aurora, CO shooting suspect James Holmes try luring someone into apartment?[/url]

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

[quote=mlmpetert;925735]Im completely with you in that im glad he was taken alive. He'll suffer more pain then to have been shot dead on site and he hopefully will allow for some closure to the families.

But i cant help but think he surrendered and that he wanted to be taken alive. The dude had on a bullet proof vest, helmet, neck armor and a cup (something for guys). Apparently he didnt put up a fight or anything. The dude isnt in the hospital, hes in jail. He also apparently told police about the bombs in his apartment.

Youre a budding psychologist right? Whats your gut about this guy being taken alive? Do you think he felt remorse and surrendered and made an effort to prevent more damage? Or do you think hes wanted to be taken alive so his deranged message can be heard?[/quote]

Considering all the preparation he took and the fact he had so much body armor, he definitely wanted to be taken alive. I would think that an act done with so much preparation, senselessly but in a specific area was meant to send a message of some sort. Probably some crazy convoluted one as this guy seemed to think he was The Joker but he was making a point of some sort. Apparently he was just spraying bullets, it wasn't like Columbine (where the shooters had a vendetta and although they WERE spraying bullets, they also went after specific kids), here everyone had a chance of being a target.

I mean... Overall, to me, it sounds just from what I've pieced together, it sounds like the dude had some weird fantasy of being a movie villain and The Joker is known for taking innocents as part of his plots.

Again, I dunno much and its all speculation.

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

[quote=SmootSmack;925523]I didn't know Jessica personally, but I know she was someone trying to break into the sports media industry, having done some NHL related stuff.

Anyhow, how crazy that she was also at the Eaton Center shooting. RIP

[url=http://jessicaredfield.wordpress.com/2012/06/05/late-night-thoughts-on-the-eaton-center-shooting/]Late Night Thoughts on the Eaton Center Shooting « A Run On of Thoughts[/url][/quote]


Wanted to share this article about her from USA Today. They also have a incredible interview with her brother. This guy is a rock to say the least. Not even sure how he performed that live staying so calm.


[url=http://www.usatoday.com/sports/story/2012-07-20/jessica-redfield-ghawi-sports-journalist/56369600/1]NHL writer, Aurora victim Jessica Redfield escaped Toronto shooting – USATODAY.com[/url]



Thoughts go out to these families. I extend those thoughts out to the shooter's family as you know they are just as devastated knowing their child did this.


[IMG]http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/403789_10151938801020436_1505093137_n.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;925741]Considering all the preparation he took and the fact he had so much body armor, he definitely wanted to be taken alive. I would think that an act done with so much preparation, senselessly but in a specific area was meant to send a message of some sort. Probably some crazy convoluted one as this guy seemed to think he was The Joker but he was making a point of some sort. Apparently he was just spraying bullets, it wasn't like Columbine (where the shooters had a vendetta and although they WERE spraying bullets, they also went after specific kids), here everyone had a chance of being a target.

I mean... Overall, to me, it sounds just from what I've pieced together, it sounds like the dude had some weird fantasy of being a movie villain and The Joker is known for taking innocents as part of his plots.

Again, I dunno much and its all speculation.[/quote]

From NCSkins link it appears he wanted to set a trap that required participation, when a more realistically way would be to just use a timer. It does feel like he was living out some sort of fantasy. But you cant help but feel like the dude is crazy like a serial killer and not a mass murderer. Just doesnt make sense.

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

[quote=mlmpetert;925737]Just curious, were you planning on going tonight for awhile or did this somehow draw more interest or spur the decision for you or your group? Ive heard its been "sold out across America".[/quote]

I bought tickets in Imax 3 weeks ago. So I was going to see it today regardless of a the terrible events that occurred today. Like people said you can't let this stop you from going, this could have happened to anyone at anytime.

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

[quote=mooby;925738]I'm going to see it in a couple hours tonight, and I hope it ends up being the same for me as it was for you. You never know with these crazy bastards.[/quote]

You'll love it, I really don't understand how people can't like this movie (referring to the 18 critics on rottentomato.com; who now have death threats against them).

This movie goes by fast, hell I wish it was 3 or 4 hours long like it was originally supposed to be. Bane is incredible. The action is great. The effects are great. If you can see it in IMAX, DO IT! It's worth the $15, trust me.

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

so, norway isn't as gun happy as we are, but they still had a massacre.

if you ban guns, do you really think murderous nutjobs are going to care about breaking gun laws, when, you know, they're planning on killing people?

I don't understand why a deer rifle or what have you needs a 100 round clip or anything like that, but a gun ban isn't retroactive, there'll still be a billionty existing weapons floating around.

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;925751]You'll love it, I really don't understand how people can't like this movie (referring to the 18 critics on rottentomato.com; who now have death threats against them).

This movie goes by fast, hell I wish it was 3 or 4 hours long like it was originally supposed to be. Bane is incredible. The action is great. The effects are great. If you can see it in IMAX, DO IT! It's worth the $15, trust me.[/quote]

Death threats over an opinion of a movie? :doh:

I guess it's not too hard to see why this incident happened when there are so many maniacs out there.

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

[quote=Mattyk;925780]Death threats over an opinion of a movie? :doh:

I guess it's not too hard to see why this incident happened when there are so many maniacs out there.[/quote]

Bill Maher had a comment very close to this on twitter yesterday and it's just as good a point now as it was then. I seriously can't understand the vitriol directed at someone for having an opinion on a movie about anything, much less some middle aged dude in a bat costume prancing from rooftop to rooftop.

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

[url=http://www.tmz.com/2012/07/20/james-holmes-sex-website-penis-cops/?adid=hero5]James Holmes -- Cops Investigating Sex Site Profile | TMZ.com[/url]

[IMG]http://ll-media.tmz.com/2012/07/20/0720-james-holmes-orange-prison-wm-2.jpg[/IMG]


[IMG]http://ll-media.tmz.com/2012/07/21/0721-james-holmes-adult-friend-finder-5.jpg[/IMG]


They should hook this guy up to the electric chair and make it a pay per view event. I'd throw down a few dollars to watch him fry.

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;925787]Bill Maher had a comment very close to this on twitter yesterday and it's just as good a point now as it was then. I seriously can't understand the vitriol directed at someone for having an opinion on a movie about anything, much less some middle aged dude in a bat costume prancing from rooftop to rooftop.[/quote]

You sir will give my movie a Fresh rating or I shall unleash my jihad on you!!!

[QUOTE=That Guy;925757]so, norway isn't as gun happy as we are, but they still had a massacre.

if you ban guns, do you really think murderous nutjobs are going to care about breaking gun laws, when, you know, they're planning on killing people?

I don't understand why a deer rifle or what have you needs a 100 round clip or anything like that, but a gun ban isn't retroactive, there'll still be a billionty existing weapons floating around.[/QUOTE]

Norway hasn't had as many shootings as we have. Look up the annual numbers.

Just because a ban isn't retroactive, isn't an excuse to ignore the problem. Like you said there needs to be a better job of restricting certain types of weapons and ammo.

[QUOTE=Alvin Walton;925709]I'm going to manufacture a new line of baseball bat.
I'll call it the Assault Bat.
Maybe someone will buy one and kill his neighbor with it.
OMG!
Bats are evil.
The media will sensationalize the name and create a bunch of hype and ignorant libs will eat it up.
Ban all baseball bats![/QUOTE]

What kills people quicker and more efficiently? Guns.

Your above argument is so ridiculous.

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

[quote=hooskins;925796]What kills people quicker and more efficiently? Guns.

Your above argument is so ridiculous.[/quote]


Bombs.


So is yours. :silly:


Can we get back to talking about the tragedy? Somebody start a "gun control" thread in the Debating with the Enemy section.

Re: Several Dead in Dark Knight Premiere Mass Shooting
 

[quote=hooskins;925796]What kills people quicker and more efficiently? Guns.

Your above argument is so ridiculous.[/quote]

Oh please.....you anti gun weiners crack me up.
Tim McVeigh killed 168 people in one instance without using a single firearm.
You want to ban fertilizer and cargo vans?