Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

Really don't get all the love for Gano. I mean I liked the guy when he was here and wanted him to succeed, but guess what he never did. He has been the same since we got him here. There was never a sure thing with him wether it was a 20 yarder or a 50 yarder, or even an extra point. If shanny and danny feel like this is a better direction then so be it, I'm not gonna whine about losing a mediocre kicker, especially a mediocre kicker that likes to tweet pictures about his anti-gay relogious beliefs.

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

[quote=Chico23231;934639]shocked by the Gano love, but when we let Carlos walk, people rejoiced. strange.

undrafted, statistically poor kicker > probowl corner, for a team in desperate need of secondary help[/quote]

Because most teams have figured out Calos can't play zone. Put a play in that makes the defense want to shift to a zone scheme and you've gotten a first down plus against Carlos.

Hall is the opposite. But in any case Carlos was whiffing on plays a lot and relying on Safety help. Better he go to a team that could utilize his skills better.

Plus I don't think it was so much all the Redskins choice. Carlos had a big decision in it also and if I remember correctly he thought of leaving once before but stayed. All teams have to budget, look at the Jags and their RB. Carlos's problem was he felt he was not being respected by the team whether that was through money or coaching or playing I'm not sure.

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

[quote=SmootSmack;934665]I don't do bets[/quote]

Now that Cundiff is gone it be a suckers bet anyways; Ravens are doomed.

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

Hopefully our offense has been improved enough that we are not solely depending on FGs. That being said, the FG protection is what really needs to be improved so we don't let the likes of Red Bryant or Calais Campbell blast (or in the case of Campbell walk untouched) through our o-linemen.

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

Wow, with Gano getting all this love, the site will crash for sure when Reed gets cut.

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

You don't like Doughty! WOW, this might not be the forum for me. #HATERS

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

FG% numbers are not enough to judge a kicker. The mix of kicking distances plays a role in driving the kicker's overall percentage. Let's analyze Gano vs Cundiff from various distances over the last two seasons combined:

0-19 Yards, both 100% (one attempt each)
20-29 Yards, Cundiff 100% on 20 attempts, Gano 88% on 25 attempts
30-39 Yards, Cudiff 86% on 21 attempts, Gano 56% on 16 attempts
40-49 Yards, Cundiff 82% on 17 attempts, Gano 76% on 25 attempts
50+ Yards, Cundiff 14% on 7 attempts, Gano 44% on 9 attempts

Look at the atrocious performance from Gano from 30-39 yards. Those are FGs you have to make, especially if you're still developing as a Red Zone offense. If you're kicking from 30-39 it means the ball sits at the 13 - 23 yard line. It means your red zone offense stalled, and you desperately need to put those points on the board to atone for the lost TD opportunity in the red zone.

With Cundiff, you know you can't count on a 50 yarder to win the game, but at least you can plan for that. You know your 2 minute offense needs to target the 25 yard line to put the game away safely. With Gano, it almost doesn't matter whether you're trying a 55 yarder or a 35 yarder, he's shaky from both distances. You can't count on him to make it, every time he comes out it's a dice roll.

Stronger leg does not equal better kicker. Give me Cundiff.

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

Schneed FTW!

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

As for the clutch playoff miss last year from Cundiff, we don't have a large enough sample size of clutch attempts from him to judge whether or not he's truly a choker. With pressure on him, Gano never showed me he was a clutch guy, so it's not like Gano has a feather in his cap in the clutch department.

Just give me reliability. At kicker I want a Toyota Camry, not a Maserati.

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

So what, we cut Gano. It's not like it was D.Hall or anything.:)

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

It's worth pointing out that Gano was once in a camp battle with the illustrious Steven Hauschka for the Ravens' kicker job, and Hauschka beat him out, before choking his way to a pink slip and being replaced by Cundiff.

If anything, that tells me that it's not just some irrational hatred of Gano by Shanahan, just that Cundiff is a better all-around kicker.

The bigger issue with Cundiff, IMO, is why he's been with so many different teams. It seems like he just can't find a place where they're happy with him, warts and all, and get comfortable.

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

HATE this move. I'm not doing any work today.

God help Cundiff if he misses some of those <50 "layups". I will smack him down over and over in the smackdown thread.

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

[quote=Schneed10;934682]FG% numbers are not enough to judge a kicker. The mix of kicking distances plays a role in driving the kicker's overall percentage. Let's analyze Gano vs Cundiff from various distances over the last two seasons combined:

0-19 Yards, both 100% (one attempt each)
20-29 Yards, Cundiff 100% on 20 attempts, Gano 88% on 25 attempts
30-39 Yards, Cudiff 86% on 21 attempts, Gano 56% on 16 attempts
40-49 Yards, Cundiff 82% on 17 attempts, Gano 76% on 25 attempts
50+ Yards, Cundiff 14% on 7 attempts, Gano 44% on 9 attempts

Look at the atrocious performance from Gano from 30-39 yards. Those are FGs you have to make, especially if you're still developing as a Red Zone offense. If you're kicking from 30-39 it means the ball sits at the 13 - 23 yard line. It means your red zone offense stalled, and you desperately need to put those points on the board to atone for the lost TD opportunity in the red zone.

With Cundiff, you know you can't count on a 50 yarder to win the game, but at least you can plan for that. You know your 2 minute offense needs to target the 25 yard line to put the game away safely. With Gano, it almost doesn't matter whether you're trying a 55 yarder or a 35 yarder, he's shaky from both distances. You can't count on him to make it, every time he comes out it's a dice roll.

Stronger leg does not equal better kicker. Give me Cundiff.[/quote]

Best post of this thread. This fukker should be framed and windexed daily.

F Gano. Guy could stink up a chicken farm. Ill take automatic within the 50, and take our chances with RG3's legs and accuracy converting 3rd and mid or 4th and short if we are around the 35.

Gano just stunk, everyone was just married to the idea that he would become this all star 90% kicker that had a club for a foot. A bunch of seasons in, not even close to happening.

BYE?

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

[quote=Schneed10;934682]FG% numbers are not enough to judge a kicker. The mix of kicking distances plays a role in driving the kicker's overall percentage. Let's analyze Gano vs Cundiff from various distances over the last two seasons combined:

0-19 Yards, both 100% (one attempt each)
20-29 Yards, Cundiff 100% on 20 attempts, Gano 88% on 25 attempts
30-39 Yards, Cudiff 86% on 21 attempts, Gano 56% on 16 attempts
40-49 Yards, Cundiff 82% on 17 attempts, Gano 76% on 25 attempts
50+ Yards, Cundiff 14% on 7 attempts, Gano 44% on 9 attempts

Look at the atrocious performance from Gano from 30-39 yards. Those are FGs you have to make, especially if you're still developing as a Red Zone offense. If you're kicking from 30-39 it means the ball sits at the 13 - 23 yard line. It means your red zone offense stalled, and you desperately need to put those points on the board to atone for the lost TD opportunity in the red zone.

With Cundiff, you know you can't count on a 50 yarder to win the game, but at least you can plan for that. You know your 2 minute offense needs to target the 25 yard line to put the game away safely. With Gano, it almost doesn't matter whether you're trying a 55 yarder or a 35 yarder, he's shaky from both distances. You can't count on him to make it, every time he comes out it's a dice roll.

Stronger leg does not equal better kicker. Give me Cundiff.[/quote]

Are you factoring in the blocks caused by the OL? That's pretty unfair to judge a kicker by his poor blocking. What are those numbers minus the blocks?

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

[quote=CrazyCanuck;934693]HATE this move. [B]I'm not doing any work today.[/B]

God help Cundiff if he misses some of those <50 "layups". I will smack him down over and over in the smackdown thread.[/quote]

I'm almost positive you just wanted an excuse not to work today.

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

[quote=NC_Skins;934697]Are you factoring in the blocks caused by the OL? That's pretty unfair to judge a kicker by his poor blocking. What are those numbers minus the blocks?[/quote]

He was 50 some percent the last TWO seasons from 30-39 yards. Come on man, dont try to make the block arguement. Ok, lets tack on 10 percent for blocks. Still horrible for that distance.

Lets not forget time and time again booting the ball out of bounds giving the opposing team position at the frikkin 40.

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

[quote=NC_Skins;934697]Are you factoring in the blocks caused by the OL? That's pretty unfair to judge a kicker by his poor blocking. What are those numbers minus the blocks?[/quote]

At times the blocks were the result of poor protection, but at other times were the result of Gano's low trajectory. Cundiff's higher trajectory will make up for our poor protection up front, he's a better fit for our team.

I like this move. Cundiff has proven to be money inside of 50 yards. Hopefully that is all he has to try. We shall see how it all plays out, but I do not see this as anything other than an upgrade and confidence that we will kick a shedload inside 50 yds this year due to an improved offense.

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

I'll admit I wasn't especially happy about this when I first heard the news, but we have found the silver lining. I'd rather have automatic from inside the 50 than a 50/50 shot from anywhere on the field.

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

NC_Skins apparently has an irrational dislike for Danny Smith who is generally considered one of the top guys in the league. If only we had a better ST coach I am sure Gano would be HOF bound.

Our ST have not been nearly as bad as you think NC. At all.

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

BTW Ravens...if you're really cutting a guy because he isn't automatic from 50+ then you are stupid. S T U P I D. Especially if he is golden inside 50. Obviously this had to be a basic money move.

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

Sounds like a pretty good outcome to me. Gano made me crazy so many times last season, I hoped they'd go with Rackers. Cundiff is even better. Thanks to Schneed for the breakdown that was legit.

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

gano sucks guys. if cundiff also sucks, guess what? we're no worse off. at worst we dropped one craptastic kicker for another. at best, we'll stop missing "easy" FGs.

either way, why do we have over 100 posts for a kicker signing? especially when the guy we had is awful by NFL standards.

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

[quote=FRPLG;934709]NC_Skins apparently has an irrational dislike for Danny Smith [B]who is generally considered one of the top guys in the league[/B]. If only we had a better ST coach I am sure Gano would be HOF bound.

Our ST have not been nearly as bad as you think NC. At all.[/quote]

True and we should remember Shanahan could have replaced him with his own guy when he took over. He obviously kept him on for good reason.

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

[quote=Schneed10;934704]At times the blocks were the result of poor protection, but at other times were the result of Gano's low trajectory. Cundiff's higher trajectory will make up for our poor protection up front, he's a better fit for our team.[/quote]

The last I recall, only one of those block the past 2 years was due to trajectory (as noted by Mike), and the other ones were simply blocked due to poor OL play. Hell, even the one that mike said had a low trajectory would have still been blocked even if it wasn't low. (from poor OL play)

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

[quote=That Guy;934720]gano sucks guys. if cundiff also sucks, guess what? we're no worse off. at worst we dropped one craptastic kicker for another. at best, we'll stop missing "easy" FGs.

either way, why do we have over 100 posts for a kicker signing? especially when the guy we had is awful by NFL standards.[/quote]

because some here think that Gano was STILL going to become Sebastian Janikowski

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

[quote=Schneed10;934682]FG% numbers are not enough to judge a kicker. The mix of kicking distances plays a role in driving the kicker's overall percentage. Let's analyze Gano vs Cundiff from various distances over the last two seasons combined:

0-19 Yards, both 100% (one attempt each)
20-29 Yards, Cundiff 100% on 20 attempts, Gano 88% on 25 attempts
30-39 Yards, Cudiff 86% on 21 attempts, Gano 56% on 16 attempts
40-49 Yards, Cundiff 82% on 17 attempts, Gano 76% on 25 attempts
50+ Yards, Cundiff 14% on 7 attempts, Gano 44% on 9 attempts

Look at the atrocious performance from Gano from 30-39 yards. Those are FGs you have to make, especially if you're still developing as a Red Zone offense. If you're kicking from 30-39 it means the ball sits at the 13 - 23 yard line. It means your red zone offense stalled, and you desperately need to put those points on the board to atone for the lost TD opportunity in the red zone.

With Cundiff, you know you can't count on a 50 yarder to win the game, but at least you can plan for that. You know your 2 minute offense needs to target the 25 yard line to put the game away safely. With Gano, it almost doesn't matter whether you're trying a 55 yarder or a 35 yarder, he's shaky from both distances. You can't count on him to make it, every time he comes out it's a dice roll.

Stronger leg does not equal better kicker. Give me Cundiff.[/quote]

Fine post, Schneed.

It is a fortunate team that has a kicker who can win a game with a 50+ yard FG. That is, if that kicker is also accurate at shorter distances. Unfortunately, there weren't any of those kickers available to the Redskins.

Given the choice between a kicker who is accurate inside of 50 yards but who can't hit the long FG's or a kicker who is not accurate inside of 50 yards but who has the ability to hit 50+ yard FG's, the smart coach takes the former every time. That is the choice that was presented to the Redskins coaches and they made the smart choice.

A few small points:

No kicker can be counted on to make the long FG's in the same way that a kicker can be counted on to make the shorter FG's.

Cundiff [U]did[/U] choke on a short FG attempt in the AFC Championship game but that doesn't make him a choke artist for life, except in Baltimore.

It was almost certainly Cundiff's missed FG in the AFC Championship game alone that made him unwelcome in Baltimore and available to the Redskins. I think that miss turned out to be a good thing for the Skins.

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

[quote=FRPLG;934709]NC_Skins apparently has an irrational dislike for Danny Smith who is generally considered one of the top guys in the league. If only we had a better ST coach I am sure Gano would be HOF bound.

Our ST have not been nearly as bad as you think NC. At all.[/quote]

Nothing irrational about it. The penalties. The blocked FGs. The kick out of bounds. Keeping Randle El on returns.....and this list goes on and on, year after year.


There is only so much you can blame the players until you have to start looking elsewhere. If things aren't corrected, you have to start looking at the coach. Nothing irrational about my beef with Danny Smith. The players have changed, but the one thing that is constant in this crappy ST play is the coach. Time for a fresh start and a new change.

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

[quote=NC_Skins;934723]The last I recall, only one of those block the past 2 years was due to trajectory (as noted by Mike), and the other ones were simply blocked due to poor OL play. Hell, even the one that mike said had a low trajectory would have still been blocked even if it wasn't low. (from poor OL play)[/quote]

those Gano jerseys probably half price now, pick yourself up a couple

:FIREdevil

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

[quote=NC_Skins;934729]Nothing irrational about it. The penalties. The blocked FGs. The kick out of bounds. Keeping Randle El on returns.....and this list goes on and on, year after year.


There is only so much you can blame the players until you have to start looking elsewhere. If things aren't corrected, you have to start looking at the coach. Nothing irrational about my beef with Danny Smith. The players have changed, but the one thing that is constant in this crappy ST play is the coach. Time for a fresh start and a new change.[/quote]

I agree with NC Skins about Danny Smith. Smith did a good job as a ST coach for many years but in recent years he's been slipping. Time for Danny to step it up.

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

[quote=NC_Skins;934723]The last I recall, only one of those block the past 2 years was due to trajectory (as noted by Mike), and the other ones were simply blocked due to poor OL play. Hell, even the one that mike said had a low trajectory would have still been blocked even if it wasn't low. (from poor OL play)[/quote]

Fair point, but irrelevant in my mind. I don't care about judging Gano fairly, I only care about creating a situation that results in no blocked FGs. You can accomplish that best by fixing the protection AND getting a K who kicks with a loftier trajectory. That is of course, ideal.

But fixing the protection is easier said than done when your sturdier linemen are hurt. So I ask you, what's easier, fix the protection or get a K that lofts the ball?

In this case a K that lofts the ball was available, and in the process you gain accuracy from within 50 yards. I'm sure Shanahan is working to fix the special teams protection as well, but it seems to me having our better blockers healthy is the biggest key to that.

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

I heard, but didn't look up, the stats that said our return teams allowed the fewest, or 2nd fewest, return yards. If true, that's definitely worth keeping DSmith. I will say sometimes on special teams Things happen that make you wanna pull out your hair. (Except for JR of course, cuz he doesn't have any to begin with)

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

Danny Smith was a wanted man after Zorn left. lucky we kept him

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

[quote=FRPLG;934553]huh? sight unseen? Did Gano get caught with an underage hooker last night? Forget what this says about Gano...what does it say about Rackers?[/quote]

:rofl::lol:

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

Given Gano's erratic kicking on attempts that did not get blocked, we can't assume he would have made all 5 of the blocked attempts. Based on his history, 3 out of 5 is probably the most reasonable expectation.

Unacceptable no matter how you cut it.

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

[quote=mbedner3420;934698]I'm almost positive you just wanted an excuse not to work today.[/quote]

Typical Canadian. Pfft...



;)

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

[quote=SmootSmack;934521]Much to the delight of htownskinsfan[/quote]

:lol:
I almost didnt even notice this thread.Im shocked,hell smoot you even agreed with my points.Im not upset about losing Gano,just shocked how it all turned out.My first reaction was I'd rather have had Rackers,but after reading thru all the post and seeing Cundiffs fg pct inside 50,Im not so upset.I havent seen a comparison with Rackers and Cundiff,from memory I think he{Rackers} had a problem from 40-49 yrds last yr,but was money over 50
Be nice to have a kicker that can hit the long ones,but if Cundiff is money inside 50 thats good too

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

Gano was just too erratic... missing FGs too often that most kickers make in their sleep. He's a hot and cold kicker... need someone who is consistent.

As for Cundiff missing that easy FG in the playoffs last year. I don't blame him nearly as much as the Ravens coaches. They took way too much time deciding what to do and then rushed the FG team onto the field and he had to rush the kick. Certainly he should have made it but the coaches made it so much more difficult.

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

i wonder if cundiff still gets his hair cut at the place i used to work? i met him once, he was so small, nice guy.

just like peyton manning, hope to see him return to 2010 form.

i preferred gano but oh well...

Re: Redskins Sign K Billy Cundiff, Release Gano
 

I was just reading todays paper and it said that Gano was safe. WTF