Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;977285]I've bought into the 2012 Redskins. I'm not going to pretend that I had some great faith that the season wasn't over at 3-6. I had assumed it was. Mike Shanahan and co have changed my mind on the direction of the season. I believe they are going to finish as NFC East champs.

Long term, I mean its Griffin's show here. Sunday was cool and all, [B]but long term it's going to be difficult to sustain that offense without more of a burden on the quarterback[/B]. I think he can handle it. I'm not sure he isn't the MVP of the league this year.[/quote]

I think your wrong here or either poor word choice. I dont think its a burden to ask a guy to do more, who has already asked to do more. I think the question of MVP was answered last weekend, a resounding NO. The team is better, no question. Not only in coaching, but in talent. I think you look to players like Pauleson, Morris, Darrell Young, Rob Jackson, Riley, Coefield, Hankerson(shakey when I type that) and Garcon as proof. I also think the concept of chemistry and leadership, yes intangibles you probably hate, is playing a larger role. Chester and Monty are fully comfortable now in ZBS as an example and obviously RG3 is providing the leadership. Gotta give Shanny and Bruce credit.

What stat is telling of successful Shanny teams in the past? The same answer to which NFL team leads the league in rushing? Washington Redskins. The burden is not on RG3, but running the ball effectively.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=Chico23231;977358]I think your wrong here or either poor word choice. I dont think its a burden to ask a guy to do more, who has already asked to do more. I think the question of MVP was answered last weekend, a resounding NO. The team is better, no question. Not only in coaching, but in talent. I think you look to players like Pauleson, Morris, Darrell Young, Rob Jackson, Riley, Coefield, Hankerson(shakey when I type that) and Garcon as proof. I also think the concept of chemistry and leadership, yes intangibles you probably hate, is playing a larger role. Chester and Monty are fully comfortable now in ZBS as an example and obviously RG3 is providing the leadership. Gotta give Shanny and Bruce credit.

What stat is telling of successful Shanny teams in the past? The same answer to which NFL team leads the league in rushing? Washington Redskins. The burden is not on RG3, but running the ball effectively.[/quote]I think I just meant throwing more times. The offense already runs pretty exclusively through RG3.

Maybe the most interesting thing about Cousins is how Kyle went back to the Grossman pass-run balance. For whatever reason, the Redskins want to protect Griffin on third downs so that the defense cannot tee off on him, meaning they play fast pass on third and long. But with Cousins, they went back to what worked with Grossman and threw vertical.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=FRPLG;977351]Your hypothesis is rooted in the assumption that your evaluation of the last two years is correct. Perhaps the winning ways simply took a few new players and a little chemistry to finally come together.[/quote]I lived through those two years on a week to week basis: if anything is going to convince me that I was wrong about those years, it sure isn't a narrative based on hindsight.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

If I told you guys that talks are in advanced stages to keep Mike and Kyle around through 2015 (which is also the length of RG3's rookie deal)...would that affect your answer

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;977365]If I told you guys that talks are in advanced stages to keep Mike and Kyle around through 2015 (which is also the length of RG3's rookie deal)...would that affect your answer[/quote]

Is there a succession clause (head coach in waiting) in Kyle's deal?

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;977360]I think I just meant throwing more times. The offense already runs pretty exclusively through RG3.

Maybe the most interesting thing about Cousins is how Kyle went back to the Grossman pass-run balance. For whatever reason, the Redskins want to protect Griffin on third downs so that the defense cannot tee off on him, meaning they play fast pass on third and long. But with Cousins, they went back to what worked with Grossman and threw vertical.[/quote]

I go back to what SS said, Kyle proved himself last week.

I thought it was funny in the second half where Cousins ran RG3 quick play fake, throw slant play. I dont remember us wearing down a defense with the run game last week in awhile. By the middle of the 3rd quarter, cleveland defense was done mentally.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;977365]If I told you guys that talks are in advanced stages to keep Mike and Kyle around through 2015 (which is also the length of RG3's rookie deal)...would that affect your answer[/quote]

id be very excited

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=Paintrain;977367]Is there a succession clause (head coach in waiting) in Kyle's deal?[/quote]

No idea

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

Also, it seems clear to me, that the locker room mentality has changed considerably in the last couple of years. Pre-Shanny, every report I have read describes favoritism running rampant - certain players having the owners ear or knowing they did not need to tow the line to start.

On the other hand, every report I have ever read, every player interview I have seen, and anything written by anyone with any insider knowledge has indicated that Shanny is all about fairness - 1st round, 5th round, UFA - you all have a shot and the one who shows the best plays. I have read interviews from players who lost their job or lost out in the competition saying "I had a fair shot and wasn't able to capitalize."

Team chemistry can be overrated when there isn't enough talent to compete. At the same time, to win on a sustained basis in this particular game requires both talent [I]and[/I] a good working attitude. Over the last two years, we have increased our depth and talent levels, ("Awful team" Tripp? I respectfully disagree) [I]and[/I] we have added a stud QB. Several UFA signings have provided solid players - Lichtenstieger, Monty, Chester, Wilson. Players being drafted appear to have both talent and the right attitude. Sometimes, building a roster with both the talent and attitude takes time to come together.

I just think that the Shanahan nay sayers are vastly underrating the Cerrato Stink factor. Seriously, how could anyone succeed with him in charge? Please - berating the coach in front of players, undercutting his authority at every turn, you couldn't win with the most talented team in the league under those situations. A couple of years ago, Doc Walker had Vinny on his radio show and made an off-the-cuff, but incredibly telling, remark while discussing the team under Shanny. Something along the lines of "You wouldn't understand it Vinny, they are just playing football, nothing flashy."

I think, contrary to Tripp's evaluation, that the team, even without Griffin, has the talent to succeed and was on its way to that last year. With him, it may become elite (I said "may"). Solving the QB issue was huge and creates the luxury afforded teams like NE and GB - player acquisition can be less need based. This frees up lots of resources to improve in a fundamental, depth-improving manner.

I think a big test will be when some of the younger players start playing through their contracts. Do we treat them fairly? Have we stopped ignoring unsung talent on the roster (R.Clark, A. Pierce as past examples) while we go hunting for the next big thing (A. Archuletta). If players play for us with the mentality that Shanny wants them to, will they be rewarded both on the field and in their wallet. Further, for those who do leave in search of greener pastures, will we be able to find their replacement on the roster?

If we can hold onto some good talent while replacing inevitable losses from within, THEN we will win consistently. To me, that will be the real test of Shanny's "five-year plan".

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

I'm somewhere in the middle of the majority of those who have bought in and wait in see in mode. Obviously, everyone is very pleased with the current results and winning streak, but let's not get too carried away. Shanahan hasn't put together Tom Coughlin type seasons here. Let's finish the season on a high note and see what we're made of over the stretch of a full 16 game season next year.

If you consider most of the past Super Bowl winners: The Giants, Patriots, Packers, and Steelers. The common thread is a franchise quarterback. Sure they have great supporting casts, great coaches, but this is by and large a quarterback driven league. To the extent that Robert continues to develop his game and steers clear of major injuries, I fully expect the Redskins to be in the playoff discussion going forward.

The more appropriate question right now, in my mind, [I][B]has the franchise turned the corner? [/B][/I]And the answer to that is emphatically, yes. I don't believe not drinking the Kool Aid makes you a skeptic or a crank or less passionate about the future of the team, it is what it is. There's an ebb and flow to winning. Teams get hot. Things come together at the right time and you're prepared to seize that moment. The truly great teams manage to overcome injuries, adversity, and setbacks and win games when they matter.

Have I bought into Shanaplan? For the here and now, yep.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;977365]If I told you guys that talks are in advanced stages to keep Mike and Kyle around through 2015 (which is also the length of RG3's rookie deal)...would that affect your answer[/quote]

If we truly have turned the corner and this year is the first of many 10+ game winning seasons, then they both have my vote!

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;977361]I lived through those two years on a week to week basis: if anything is going to convince me that I was wrong about those years, it sure isn't a narrative based on hindsight.[/quote]

Nothing is ever going to convince you that you were wrong about anything. An overstatement, perhaps, but I too have lived through the last two years and have read your posts during that course of time.

In the vast majority of your analysis, you set the parameters for the assumptions and discount that which falls outside those assumptions regardless of the value given by others. [For example: your foray into the value of Chad Reinhardt, and other such noteworthies, as proof of the talented roster inherited by Shanny; more recently the debate as to the team's "youth movement"]. Your unshakeable belief in the correctness of your underlying assumptions is admirable albeit obtuse at times.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=12thMan;977374]I'm somewhere in the middle of the majority of those who have bought in and wait in see in mode. Obviously, everyone is very pleased with the current results and winning streak, but let's not get too carried away. Shanahan hasn't put together Tom Coughlin type seasons here. Let's finish the season on a high note and see what we're made of over the stretch of a full 16 game season next year.

[B]If you consider most of the past Super Bowl winners: The Giants, Patriots, Packers, and Steelers. The common thread is a franchise quarterback. Sure they have great supporting casts, great coaches, but this is by and large a quarterback driven league. To the extent that Robert continues to develop his game and steers clear of major injuries, I fully expect the Redskins to be in the playoff discussion going forward.

The more appropriate question right now, in my mind, [I][B]has the franchise turned the corner? [/B][/I]And the answer to that is emphatically, yes. I don't believe not drinking the Kool Aid makes you a skeptic or a crank or less passionate about the future of the team, it is what it is. There's an ebb and flow to winning. Teams get hot. Things come together at the right time and you're prepared to seize that moment. The truly great teams manage to overcome injuries, adversity, and setbacks and win games when they matter[/B].

Have I bought into Shanaplan? For the here and now, yep.[/quote]

Have we turned the corner? Not sure - I think we will. Again, I want to see how ShanAllen handles the coming need for talent replacement/retention. If we succeed, if the talent level is improving, players will be lost. How they are replaced is key.

Look at Houston, their D lost DeMarco Ryans & Mario Williams this past year and is [I]still[/I] playing at a high level. Sure, their was a scheme switch. Regardless, most teams losing two pro-bowlers from the first & second level of their defense would be in serious trouble. In Houston, however, they maintained there performance. I don't recall Houston signing guys to huge UFA contracts to replace them. Instead, they retained and replaced from inside - w/ guys on the roster that nobody may have known before plus good drafting (J.J. Watt makes up for a lot of other talent defeciencies).

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;977394]Have we turned the corner? Not sure - I think we will. Again, I want to see how ShanAllen handles the coming need for talent replacement/retention. If we succeed, if the talent level is improving, players will be lost. How they are replaced is key.

Look at Houston, their D lost DeMarco Ryans & Mario Williams this past year and is [I]still[/I] playing at a high level. Sure, their was a scheme switch. Regardless, most teams losing two pro-bowlers from the first & second level of their defense would be in serious trouble. In Houston, however, they maintained there performance. I don't recall Houston signing guys to huge UFA contracts to replace them. Instead, they retained and replaced from inside - w/ guys on the roster that nobody may have known before plus good drafting (J.J. Watt makes up for a lot of other talent defeciencies).[/quote]

Couple of things: We, too, have had our share of losses on defense: Rak and Carriker. One could also argue our defense is much better with Meriweather in the line-up. So the talent rule applies to the Redskins as well. It's quite possible that Mario Williams was a bit overrated to begin with. What has he done in Buffalo this season? Haven't heard much from him.

In short, Robert was the missing piece. The QB raises the level of play of those around him and we've witnessed that this season. We won a total of 11? games the previous two seasons. I feel we're on the right track; Turned the corner.

Generally I think we agree more than not on this point.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=12thMan;977400]Couple of things: We, too, have had our share of losses on defense: Rak and Carriker. One could also argue our defense is much better with Meriweather in the line-up. So the talent rule applies to the Redskins as well. It's quite possible that Mario Williams was a bit overrated to begin with. What has he done in Buffalo this season? Haven't heard much from him.

[B]In short, Robert was the missing piece.[/B] The QB raises the level of play of those around him and we've witnessed that this season. We won a total of 11? games the previous two seasons. I feel we're on the right track; Turned the corner.[/quote]

My point about Houston was just an example of how good teams replace lost talent. Think of Gibbs I, the current Patriots or the 2000-2009 Eagles. Good teams can lose talent b/c it can be adquately replaced (or appropriately retained).

I fully agree that Robert was the missing piece although I would suggest it is more accurate to say "a quality QB was the missing piece" - the fact that we were able to insert an amazing talent like RGIII into that piece is just absolute gravy.

[quote=12thMan;977400]Generally I think we agree more than not on this point.[/quote]

I agree that we generally agree. ;)

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;977403]My point about Houston was just an example of how good teams replace lost talent. [B] Think of Gibbs I[/B], the current Patriots or the 2000-2009 Eagles. Good teams can lose talent b/c it can be adquately replaced (or appropriately retained).

I fully agree that Robert was the missing piece although I would suggest it is more accurate to say "a quality QB was the missing piece" - the fact that we were able to insert an amazing talent like RGIII into that piece is just absolute gravy.
[/quote]

I definitely think that's why the Redskins were so good in the 80's, they had good backups who could come in and make plays, good quarterbacks who could win ya some games, and certainly a good eye for talent. But, I think drafting a guy like Kirk Cousins just showed everybody that if you do plan on being a winner, you're going to need a good backup QB.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

I'd be careful drawing comparisons from the 80s, but the broader point is still legit.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=12thMan;977411]I'd be careful drawing comparisons from the 80s, but the broader point is still legit.[/quote]

Not sure why I'd have to be careful about drawing comparisons between decades, the simple fact remains true whether if it's the 50's or present day - depth is what helps to make a team good and to keep the team consistently good. That's often what separates good teams from bad teams.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

Yeah but depth is easier to create pre Plan B free-agency and salary caps

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=skinsguy;977407]I definitely think that's why the Redskins were so good in the 80's, they had good backups who could come in and make plays, good quarterbacks who could win ya some games, and certainly a good eye for talent. But, I think drafting a guy like Kirk Cousins just showed everybody that if you do plan on being a winner, you're going to need a good backup QB.[/quote]


In the 80s, Beathard and Casserly did the best job in the NFL at finding quality players to play on both sides of the ball. The Redskins had players like Alvoid Mays, A.J. Johnson, Jumpy Gathers, and were rock solid at every position.

This season through building the team, this was the first time that quality depth was added to the roster since Shanahan had been the HC. You could even see it in preseason games before the regular season.

The Redskins were fortunate Kirk Cousins was still there in the 4th round because he was projected to go in the 2nd round. Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan were wise to want to go into a more youthful direction instead of depending on turnover bound Rex Grossman to be RG3's back up.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;977446]Yeah but depth is easier to create pre Plan B free-agency and salary caps[/quote]

Yes. Pre-1993 you could use your bench as a minor league development arrangement. Once free agency came along, that disappeared, because after four years a player just signs with another team rather than being promoted from the bench.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;977446]Yeah but depth is easier to create pre Plan B free-agency and salary caps[/quote]

Not denying that. I'm simply saying that depth, itself, is the key.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

Alvoid Mays. LOL

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;977462]Alvoid Mays. LOL[/quote]

I was watching the 1991 NFC Championship game on DVD last night and Mays was all over the field after Darrell Green injured his ribs. Alvoid Mays was a pretty quality depth player....

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;977464]I was watching the 1991 NFC Championship game on DVD last night and Mays was all over the field after Darrell Green injured his ribs. Alvoid Mays was a pretty quality depth player....[/quote]

He was fine, but-if we're being honest-he wasn't tremendously better than say Reed Doughty or even a guy like Jordan Pugh.

I love the 80s Redskins, but there's always a lot of revisionist history about them

But anyhow, that's in the past

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;977466]He was fine, but-if we're being honest-he wasn't tremendously better than say Reed Doughty or even a guy like Jordan Pugh.

I love the 80s Redskins, but there's always a lot of revisionist history about them

But anyhow, that's in the past[/quote]


Pretty much my point.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

the only problem i had with the shanaplan was the inconsistent performance of our coordinators at times early in the season... i must say they have found rythym and the head scratchers get less and less every week.. they've turned play calling around in a huge way regardless of who we have a QB it seems... sure winning has alot to do with it but for me personally they have come on strong especially with halftime adjustments... can't say enough about the work they are putting in over this win streak and how it has translated on the field. big ups to both of them.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

^ The Redskins players and especially the coaching staff have been on fire since returning from the bye week.....

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

I was so glad to get rid of the Snyderatto Front Office that I bought in on day 1 that Shanahan and Allen were hired. Finally two real football men running the ship, about 12 years too late.
Yes there have been some mistakes along the way with Shanaplan, but nobody is perfect. Even Gibbs I made some personnel mistakes here and there. I don't expect Shanahan and Allen to be perfect.
I think the real change now has to come from the Redskins fans that are too impatient and so desperate to win now that there is already talk of wanting to trade away Cousins for picks. You want picks to get great players. So why give away a good player for picks? The other needs will get taken care of with TIME.
I think last weeks RGIII injury is the perfect example of this impatience. So many people wanted RGIII to play and risk further injury even though he could run in practice. I love that Shanahan will only play RGIII until he is healthy, that is the correct way to treat your big investment.

My name is Punch, and im a Shanafan. Admitting it is half the battle. Lol.

I think its pretty apparent that everyone is jumping on the bandwagon now. Where were all you guys when me goat gtripp and mechanix were saying "be patient"? ;)
On a serious note everyone was excited when Vinnie left. When after two years and 9 weeks you have yet to be on the way to winning atleast as many games as Zorn did i think that was reasonable cause for doubt. Its easy now to say " i knew this was coming ( the wins) , as opposed to admitting that you might have been thinking the same thing as we were - "oh shit". I personally stated all year that when he wins he will garner my praise. I feel no shame in being a "bandwagon fan" of the coaching staff. I was never a "bandwagon fan" of my team. Would be wearing my jersey every sunday no matter what.

[QUOTE=REDSKINS4ever;977464]I was watching the 1991 NFC Championship game on DVD last night and Mays was all over the field after Darrell Green injured his ribs. Alvoid Mays was a pretty quality depth player....[/QUOTE]

Difference for Mays and our secondary depth now was we had a badass front seven that made opposing qb's very nervous.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=punch it in;977538]My name is Punch, and im a Shanafan. Admitting it is half the battle. Lol.

I think its pretty apparent that everyone is jumping on the bandwagon now. Where were all you guys when me goat gtripp and mechanix were saying "be patient"? ;)
On a serious note everyone was excited when Vinnie left. When after two years and 9 weeks you have yet to be on the way to winning atleast [B]as many games as Zorn [/B]did i think that was reasonable cause for doubt. Its easy now to say " i knew this was coming ( the wins) , as opposed to admitting that you might have been thinking the same thing as we were - "oh shit". I personally stated all year that when he wins he will garner my praise. I feel no shame in being a "bandwagon fan" of the coaching staff. I was never a "bandwagon fan" of my team. Would be wearing my jersey every sunday no matter what.[/quote]

I don't think I can express how much the bolded statement aggravates me. In hindsight, we [B][U][SIZE="2"]know[/SIZE][/U][/B] that Zorn's best days were in his first 8 games, when he won 6 of his total. We also know that those first 8 games were Zorn staying with what JG had built. Shanahan wasn't even trying to take what he had been given and win with it. He took what he was given, threw a whole bunch out, and started seeing who was going to be his kinda guys. Saying that Zorn and Shanahan had the same win total completely ignores the reality of how the two win totals were achieved. end rant

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;977547]I don't think I can express how much the bolded statement aggravates me. In hindsight, we [B][U][SIZE=2]know[/SIZE][/U][/B] that Zorn's best days were in his first 8 games, when he won 6 of his total. We also know that those first 8 games were Zorn staying with what JG had built. Shanahan wasn't even trying to take what he had been given and win with it. He took what he was given, threw a whole bunch out, and started seeing who was going to be his kinda guys. Saying that Zorn and Shanahan had the same win total completely ignores the reality of how the two win totals were achieved. end rant[/quote]

It is a well thought out rant and I believe that your theory fits. I could buy that logic even if it weren't the truth. It makes too much sense not to be though.

Hypothetical question if the team were to improve on paper, but start off horrible next season and not even make the playoffs, then what would your assessment of Shannahan be then? Would you allow him to stay for his fifth year or would you be looking for different options?

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;977547]I don't think I can express how much the bolded statement aggravates me. In hindsight, we [B][U][SIZE="2"]know[/SIZE][/U][/B] that Zorn's best days were in his first 8 games, when he won 6 of his total. We also know that those first 8 games were Zorn staying with what JG had built. Shanahan wasn't even trying to take what he had been given and win with it. He took what he was given, threw a whole bunch out, and started seeing who was going to be his kinda guys. [B]Saying that Zorn and Shanahan had the same win total completely ignores the reality of how the two win totals were achieved.[/B] end rant[/quote]

That is exactly right. It ignores that Shanahan and Allen pretty much built this teams roster with their players.

The young talent you have and the way your team is playing (quality of play) is some times more important than your record. If I played 8 games with this current roster against:
1) Patriots
2) Green Bay
3) 49ers
4) Giants
5) Texans
6) Falcons
7) Denver
and we lost more games than we won, I would still be happy. Because it was against the best teams in the NFL and I know our team is young and promising.
But if I played 8 weak ass teams and won them all with Zorn's old weak ass roster I would not be happy because our play on the field and our players were weak.
Win loss does not always tell the whole story. You are only as good as the teams you play.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

I don't think anyone was ever saying "We [I]know[/I] Shanahan will succeed." I know I wasn't. I had (and have) - as those familiar with liturgy will understand - "a sure and certain hope" that he would succeed. I think we have all had our doubts and, frankly, I still do. At 3-6, I was just not looking forward to starting over [I]again.[/I] Winning streaks in December against division foes, however, make it easy to regain one's faith.

If they falter next year, it really depends on what is causing it to determine if MS should be canned. It's still a "right now" league - and, right now, we are successful. If next year's "right now" is a bumbling, penalty ridden, poorly managed team, then MS could very well be on the hot seat.

I just don't think this team takes that kind of step back. Mike has gotten guys who buy into his work ethic - they just needed something to be the catalyst for success and, whatever happened during the bye week, they seem to have found it. I believe we have taken the first steps out of mediocrity. As I said earlier in the thread, how we deal with the inevitable talent drain will determine if we take the next.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

Hey, guys.

I don't post here often. I come here mostly to read and get news about the team and the NFL, and follow the gameday threads, so none of you know me but I have read most of you for years. I've contributed when I can and simply love this place. I have been a diehard fan of the 'Skins since I was a kid and 40 is less than two years away.

The last twenty years have been painful, with flashes of what could have been here and there, the only true bright spot in all that time being when #21 was in our backfield hunting receivers and killing TOs.

I was glad when we got rid of Vinny and Snyder started pumping his brakes on personnel decisions, I was ambivalent but willing to try with the Shanahans because we were epitomizing insanity (i.e., doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results), and I was all behind the trade for Robert.

I thought we would go 4-12, MAYBE 5-11, this season, and I was fine with that knowing we had a guy who was going to be the future.

And wow. Look where we are now.

For me, I think we saw the beginning of a real turnaround here in 'Skinsnation not against the Gi'nts, but against the Ravens.

When a player affects the play on the field he's not on, you've got something very special. What happened on FedEx Field Sunday before last against that Super Bowl quality team was truly remarkable.

I firmly believe week before last was a turning point for our 'Skins. I think Robert is ... well, just incredible. RG3 brought them all together against the Ravens and that allowed Cap'n Kirk to beam the Browns up Sunday. I think Robert will lead the 'Skins to extraordinary heights.

And that's due in no small part to the coaching of the Shanahans.

So yeah, I'm in on the Shanaplan. In fact, I'm doubling down. No matter what happens the rest of this season (and I believe we are going to run the table at this point), the Two Decades of Suck are over. We have no where to go but up.

HAIL!

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;977547]I don't think I can express how much the bolded statement aggravates me. In hindsight, we [B][U][SIZE="2"]know[/SIZE][/U][/B] that Zorn's best days were in his first 8 games, when he won 6 of his total. We also know that those first 8 games were Zorn staying with what JG had built. Shanahan wasn't even trying to take what he had been given and win with it. He took what he was given, threw a whole bunch out, and started seeing who was going to be his kinda guys. Saying that Zorn and Shanahan had the same win total completely ignores the reality of how the two win totals were achieved. end rant[/QUOTE]

I understand that all, i am admitting i was wrong, but you are giving alot of credit to personell and hardly any to gameplanning and coaching. You could hand me a team full of hall of famers but as long as im the one standing n the sideline they arent going to win much. So my comment about Zorn was just to point out that if that idiot can coach a team to 8 wins than i WAS wondering why Shanny couldnt. Anyway apparently it seems Shanny can still coach a team so im willing to chalk up the first two and a half years to "i dont give a crap cus its over". Lol
Edit: i didnt say they had the same win total i said Zorn won 8 games and Shanny hadnt cracked six. My point was that if Zorn can win 8 i expect atleast that from Shanny -even with a lesser team. Not enough credit given to in game coaching or game planning anymore -

[QUOTE=ashvirtually;977576]Hey, guys.

I don't post here often. I come here mostly to read and get news about the team and the NFL, and follow the gameday threads, so none of you know me but I have read most of you for years. I've contributed when I can and simply love this place. I have been a diehard fan of the 'Skins since I was a kid and 40 is less than two years away.

The last twenty years have been painful, with flashes of what could have been here and there, the only true bright spot in all that time being when #21 was in our backfield hunting receivers and killing TOs.

I was glad when we got rid of Vinny and Snyder started pumping his brakes on personnel decisions, I was ambivalent but willing to try with the Shanahans because we were epitomizing insanity (i.e., doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results), and I was all behind the trade for Robert.

I thought we would go 4-12, MAYBE 5-12, this season, and I was fine with that knowing we had a guy who was going to be the future.

And wow. Look where we are now.

For me, I think we saw the beginning of a real turnaround here in 'Skinsnation not against the Gi'nts, but against the Ravens.

When a player affects the play on the field he's not on, you've got something very special. What happened on FedEx Field Sunday before last against that Super Bowl quality team was truly remarkable.

I firmly believe week before last was a turning point for our 'Skins. I think Robert is ... well, just incredible. RG3 brought them all together against the Ravens and that allowed Cap'n Kirk to beam the Browns up Sunday. I think Robert will lead the 'Skins to extraordinary heights.

And that's due in no small part to the coaching of the Shanahans.

So yeah, I'm in on the Shanaplan. In fact, I'm doubling down. No matter what happens the rest of this season (and I believe we are going to run the table at this point), the Two Decades of Suck are over. We have no where to go but up.

HAIL![/QUOTE]

Yes RG-3 has rubbed off his win ing attitude on this team which is usually so beyond the realm of what a rookie is capable of. Truly amazing. Great point. You should post more often! Btw enjoy the next two years cus its all downhill from there! Lol!

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=ashvirtually;977576]Hey, guys.

I don't post here often. I come here mostly to read and get news about the team and the NFL, and follow the gameday threads, so none of you know me but I have read most of you for years. I've contributed when I can and simply love this place. I have been a diehard fan of the 'Skins since I was a kid and 40 is less than two years away.

The last twenty years have been painful, with flashes of what could have been here and there, the only true bright spot in all that time being when #21 was in our backfield hunting receivers and killing TOs.

I was glad when we got rid of Vinny and Snyder started pumping his brakes on personnel decisions, I was ambivalent but willing to try with the Shanahans because we were epitomizing insanity (i.e., doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results), and I was all behind the trade for Robert.

I thought we would go 4-12, MAYBE 5-11, this season, and I was fine with that knowing we had a guy who was going to be the future.

And wow. Look where we are now.

For me, I think we saw the beginning of a real turnaround here in 'Skinsnation not against the Gi'nts, but against the Ravens.

When a player affects the play on the field he's not on, you've got something very special. What happened on FedEx Field Sunday before last against that Super Bowl quality team was truly remarkable.

I firmly believe week before last was a turning point for our 'Skins. I think Robert is ... well, just incredible. RG3 brought them all together against the Ravens and that allowed Cap'n Kirk to beam the Browns up Sunday. I think Robert will lead the 'Skins to extraordinary heights.

And that's due in no small part to the coaching of the Shanahans.

So yeah, I'm in on the Shanaplan. In fact, I'm doubling down. No matter what happens the rest of this season (and I believe we are going to run the table at this point), the Two Decades of Suck are over. We have no where to go but up.

HAIL![/quote]

Welcome to the board. Nice post.

Re: Are you buying into the Shanaplan?
 

[quote=Angry;977552]It is a well thought out rant and I believe that your theory fits. I could buy that logic even if it weren't the truth. It makes too much sense not to be though.

Hypothetical question if the team were to improve on paper, but start off horrible next season and not even make the playoffs, then what would your assessment of Shannahan be then? Would you allow him to stay for his fifth year or would you be looking for different options?[/quote]

We play the NFC North, and AFC West, as well as one NFC West and NFC South team. If we start off horrible again next year(less than .500 after 6 games), I think I would backtrack some. Having shown movement in the right direction, getting some players back, and playing what should be a similar, or easier, schedule we should see a more consistent team.

That said, I think we will be a 9+ win team(probably 10+) for the next 3 years, given the AFC and NFC rotation we will see.