Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

[quote=Giantone;994078]Yes he did.

[URL="http://www.ctpost.com/newtownshooting/article/State-Police-All-26-Newtown-victims-shot-with-4222299.php"]State Police: All 26 Newtown victims shot with assault rifle - Connecticut Post[/URL]

Lt. [URL="http://www.ctpost.com/?controllerName=search&action=search&channel=newtownshooting&search=1&inlineLink=1&query=%22J.+Paul+Vance%22"][COLOR=#0066cc]J. Paul Vance[/COLOR][/URL], the face of an ongoing [URL="http://www.ctpost.com/?controllerName=search&action=search&channel=newtownshooting&search=1&inlineLink=1&query=%22Connecticut+State+Police%22"][COLOR=#0066cc]Connecticut State Police[/COLOR][/URL] investigation into worst grade-school shooting in U.S. history, Thursday debunked media and Internet reports that Sandy Hook shooter Adam Lanza killed his victims with handguns and not the Bushmaster XM-15 E2S rifle that has been a focus of a proposed federal assault-weapons ban.
All 26 of Lanza's victims were shot with the .223-caliber semi-automatic rifle, said Vance, who bristled at claims to the contrary during an interview with Hearst Connecticut Newspapers.
"It's all these conspiracy theorists that are trying to mucky up the waters," said Vance, the longtime state police spokesman.
Multiple Second Amendment and gun-owner websites have attempted to cast doubt on whether the Bushmaster XM-15, a type of AR-15 rifle that is currently legal, was used in the Dec. 14 carnage done by Lanza.
Some have cited a Dec. 15 "Today" show video clip from the day after the shooting, in which [URL="http://www.ctpost.com/?controllerName=search&action=search&channel=newtownshooting&search=1&inlineLink=1&query=%22NBC+News+Justice+Department%22"][COLOR=#0066cc]NBC News Justice Department[/COLOR][/URL] correspondent [URL="http://www.ctpost.com/?controllerName=search&action=search&channel=newtownshooting&search=1&inlineLink=1&query=%22Pete+Williams%22"][COLOR=#0066cc]Pete Williams[/COLOR][/URL] said that four handguns were recovered inside [URL="http://www.ctpost.com/?controllerName=search&action=search&channel=newtownshooting&search=1&inlineLink=1&query=%22Sandy+Hook+Elementary+School%22"][COLOR=#0066cc]Sandy Hook Elementary School[/COLOR][/URL] and that the Bushmaster rifle was found in the trunk of a car owned by Lanza's slain mother, [URL="http://www.ctpost.com/?controllerName=search&action=search&channel=newtownshooting&search=1&inlineLink=1&query=%22Nancy+Lanza%22"][COLOR=#0066cc]Nancy Lanza[/COLOR][/URL].
"There's no doubt that the rifle was used solely to kill 26 people in that school," Vance said.
Twenty children ages 7 and under and six female educators were killed when Lanza forced his way into Sandy Hook Elementary School and sprayed the occupants with bullets before turning a gun on himself.
Vance said he made it abundantly clear during his media briefings since the tragedy that Lanza carried out the shooting with the Bushmaster.
"I personally articulated that probably a dozen times in Newtown," Vance said.
The only time Lanza used a handgun at the school was to commit suicide, according to Vance.
The state police went so far as a to issue a news release on Jan. 18 listing the weapons recovered from inside the school, which included the Bushmaster, a Glock 10mm handgun and a Sig-Sauer P226 9mm handgun. An Izhmash Canta-12 12-gauge shotgun was taken from the trunk of the suspect's car.
Sales of AR-15 assault rifles would be banned under the Assault Weapons Ban of 2013, a federal measure that was proposed Thursday and is being sponsored by Connecticut Sens. [URL="http://www.ctpost.com/?controllerName=search&action=search&channel=newtownshooting&search=1&inlineLink=1&query=%22Richard+Blumenthal%22"][COLOR=#0066cc]Richard Blumenthal[/COLOR][/URL] and [URL="http://www.ctpost.com/?controllerName=search&action=search&channel=newtownshooting&search=1&inlineLink=1&query=%22Chris+Murphy%22"][COLOR=#0066cc]Chris Murphy[/COLOR][/URL], as well as Newtown's new U.S. representative, [URL="http://www.ctpost.com/?controllerName=search&action=search&channel=newtownshooting&search=1&inlineLink=1&query=%22Elizabeth+Esty%22"][COLOR=#0066cc]Elizabeth Esty[/COLOR][/URL].
Democratic Rep. [URL="http://www.ctpost.com/?controllerName=search&action=search&channel=newtownshooting&search=1&inlineLink=1&query=%22Jim+Himes%22"][COLOR=#0066cc]Jim Himes[/COLOR][/URL], whose district immediately borders Newtown, is also a co-sponsor.


Read more: [URL="http://www.ctpost.com/newtownshooting/article/State-Police-All-26-Newtown-victims-shot-with-4222299.php#ixzz2KllW7hbP"]State Police: All 26 Newtown victims shot with assault rifle - Connecticut Post[/URL][/quote]

We all ready know that but he did not have on a bullet proof vest as you stated. Lots of bad info went around with that event.

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

[url=http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2013/02/13/print-draw-fire-3d-printing-could-muzzle-new-gun-laws/]Print and fire: 3D printing could muzzle new gun laws | Fox News[/url]

We need a law asap to make this illegal!!!! That way if someone wants to shoot up a No Gun Zone, he will have to break 2 laws first......

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

[quote=mlmpetert;994143][url=http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2013/02/13/print-draw-fire-3d-printing-could-muzzle-new-gun-laws/]Print and fire: 3D printing could muzzle new gun laws | Fox News[/url]

We need a law asap to make this illegal!!!! That way if someone wants to shoot up a No Gun Zone, he will have to break 2 laws first......[/quote]

Or you could just get two small cap mags and some tin snips and duct tape and go to town.

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

[url=http://blog.al.com/montgomery/2013/02/lee_county_judge_revokes_bond.html]Lee County judge revokes bond for Harvey Updyke Jr. (updated) | al.com[/url]

These are the kind of idiots you do not want having a gun.

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

[quote=firstdown;994104]We all ready know that but he did not have on a bullet proof vest as you stated. Lots of bad info went around with that event.[/quote]


Never said he had a Bullet proof vest , I said he orderd a kevlar suit.I was responding to your inaccurate post when you said"
He also[B] did not use an Assult Rifl[/B]e but most people don't know that."

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

SlingingSammy???

[url=http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/19/va-pizza-shop-offers-15-discount-to-anyone-who-brings-in-a-gun-or-concealed-carry-permit/]VA Pizza Shop Offers 15% Discount to Anyone Who Brings in a Gun or Concealed Carry Permit | TheBlaze.com[/url]

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

Your post about Kevlar suit (most people would assume bullet proof vest) was post #72 my post about not using an AR was #76.

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

[quote=mlmpetert;994665]SlingingSammy???

[URL="http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/19/va-pizza-shop-offers-15-discount-to-anyone-who-brings-in-a-gun-or-concealed-carry-permit/"]VA Pizza Shop Offers 15% Discount to Anyone Who Brings in a Gun or Concealed Carry Permit | TheBlaze.com[/URL][/quote]

He sold his pizza business but that's pretty dam close to where it was located.

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

Here we go....

Senate Bill 5737, states in part that:

[I]In order to continue to possess an assault weapon that was legally possessed on the effective date of this section, the person possessing shall … safely and securely store the assault weapon. The sheriff of the county may, no more than once per year, conduct an inspection to ensure compliance with this subsection.[/I]

Chip, chip, chip......

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

[quote=RedskinRat;994706]Here we go....

Senate Bill 5737, states in part that:

[I]In order to continue to possess an assault weapon that was legally possessed on the effective date of this section, the person possessing shall … safely and securely store the assault weapon. The sheriff of the county may, no more than once per year, conduct an inspection to ensure compliance with this subsection.[/I]

Chip, chip, chip......[/quote]



and....
[url=http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/19/us-usa-guns-colorado-idUSBRE91I02I20130219]Colorado House passes gun-control measures | Reuters[/url]

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

[quote=firstdown;994695]your post about kevlar suit (most people would assume bullet proof vest) was post #72 my post about not using an ar was #76.[/quote]



#81

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

[quote=RedskinRat;994706]Here we go....

Senate Bill 5737, states in part that:

[I]In order to continue to possess an assault weapon that was legally possessed on the effective date of this section, the person possessing shall … safely and securely store the assault weapon. The sheriff of the county may, no more than once per year, conduct an inspection to ensure compliance with this subsection.[/I]

Chip, chip, chip......[/quote]

Sheriffs in your bedroom.....wonderful.....
Great example of Big Brother.
I really hate timid people and all the new dumb ass laws they think up.

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

[quote=RedskinRat;994706]Here we go....

Senate Bill 5737, states in part that:

[I]In order to continue to possess an assault weapon that was legally possessed on the effective date of this section, the person possessing shall … safely and securely store the assault weapon. The sheriff of the county may, no more than once per year, conduct an inspection to ensure compliance with this subsection.[/I]

Chip, chip, chip......[/quote]

that's insane. conduct an inspection?

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

[quote=Giantone;994722]#81[/quote]

You lost me. He didn't have one on.

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

Here's how I imagine this 'gun control' playing out:

1) Increase the tax of ammunition to the point where it's too expensive for average people to buy.

2) Introduce increasingly invasive 'checks' on gun owners that make it a complete pain in the arse to own a firearm.

3) Permit owners to store guns at a licensed facility (like a gun range) so as to avoid invasive checks.

4) Facilities are closed down and/or all firearms confiscated.

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

[quote=RedskinRat;994846]Here's how I imagine this 'gun control' playing out:

1) Increase the tax of ammunition to the point where it's too expensive for average people to buy.

2) Introduce increasingly invasive 'checks' on gun owners that make it a complete pain in the arse to own a firearm.

3) Permit owners to store guns at a licensed facility (like a gun range) so as to avoid invasive checks.

4) Facilities are closed down and/or all firearms confiscated.[/quote]

Yea right. You forgot that they would have to go door to door to collect these guns. Also if you tax amunition too much it will just go under ground.

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

[quote=firstdown;994867]Yea right. You forgot that they would have to go door to door to collect these guns.[/quote]

Already covered.

[I]3) Permit owners to store guns at a licensed facility (like a gun range) so as to avoid invasive checks.[/I]

When I say 'permit' I actually mean coerce or subtly force.

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

[quote=RedskinRat;994846]Here's how I imagine this 'gun control' playing out:

1) Increase the tax of ammunition to the point where it's too expensive for average people to buy.

2) Introduce increasingly invasive 'checks' on gun owners that make it a complete pain in the arse to own a firearm.

3) Permit owners to store guns at a licensed facility (like a gun range) so as to avoid invasive checks.

4) Facilities are closed down and/or all firearms confiscated.[/quote]

None of those will ever happen.
#2 and #4 are fairly ridiculous.

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

[quote=RedskinRat;994872]Already covered.

[I]3) Permit owners to store guns at a licensed facility (like a gun range) so as to avoid invasive checks.[/I]

When I say 'permit' I actually mean coerce or subtly force.[/quote]

Still would not happen. To many people feel its their right to own a gun and would be to periniod (sp) to turn them in or check them in for any reason. One of the main reason people do not want background checks is it lets the gov. know your purchasing a gun that they could trace.

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

[quote=firstdown;995080]Still would not happen. To many people feel its their right to own a gun and would be to periniod (sp) to turn them in or check them in for any reason. One of the main reason people do not want background checks is it lets the gov. know your purchasing a gun that they could trace.[/quote]

Those are the exact people I don't want to have guns. Gun ownership is not a right, a right is something that cannot be taken away -- guns are a privilege. Otherwise everyone regardless of felon status or mental health status would have the right to own one. If you're not willing to submit to a background check, the punishment should be steep.

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

[quote=Daseal;995092]Those are the exact people I don't want to have guns. Gun ownership is not a right, a right is something that cannot be taken away -- guns are a privilege. Otherwise everyone regardless of felon status or mental health status would have the right to own one. If you're not willing to submit to a background check, the punishment should be steep.[/quote]

I'm all for background checks.....in todays modern society it has become necessary.
But you're wrong about the privelege part.
Its a right.

The Second Amendment (Amendment II) to the United States Constitution is the part of the United States [COLOR="Red"]Bill of Rights [/COLOR]that protects [COLOR="Red"]the right [/COLOR]of the people to keep and bear arms. It was adopted on December 15, 1791, along with the rest of the[COLOR="Red"] Bill of Rights[/COLOR]. The Supreme Court of the United States first ruled in 2008 that the Second Amendment protects an [COLOR="Red"]individual right[/COLOR] to possess and carry firearms.

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

It's a right, that comes with a heavy responsibility.

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;995126]It's a right, that comes with a heavy responsibility.[/quote]

werd

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

[quote=Daseal;995092]Those are the exact people I don't want to have guns. Gun ownership is not a right, a right is something that cannot be taken away -- guns are a privilege. Otherwise everyone regardless of felon status or mental health status would have the right to own one. If you're not willing to submit to a background check, the punishment should be steep.[/quote]


I understand how you feel but it is a "right" gauranteed by the Constitution but as I have said before it can't go unchecked.You have the right as all Americans to "Free Speach" yet the Surprem Court says it is not your right to scream "fire" in a crowded movie thearter.As always there must be checks and balances on everything,no way the founders of this country would sit back and justify the murder of 20 children it is the people (NRA) that believe that crap that scare me,they are not responsible gun owners.

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;995126]It's a right, that comes with a heavy responsibility.[/quote]

Very!

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

[quote=Giantone;995155]no way the founders of this country would sit back and justify the murder of 20 children it is the people (NRA) that believe that crap that scare me,they are not responsible gun owners.[/quote]

Please show any evidence you have for the NRA justifying the murders of 20 kids, or is this yet another of your poorly constructed sentences that adds nothing to the discussion?

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

[quote=Giantone;995155]I understand how you feel but it is a "right" gauranteed by the Constitution but as I have said before it can't go unchecked.You have the right as all Americans to "Free Speach" yet the Surprem Court says it is not your right to scream "fire" in a crowded movie thearter.As always there must be checks and balances on everything,no way the founders of this country would sit back and justify the murder of 20 children it is the people (NRA) that believe that crap that scare me,they are not responsible gun owners.[/quote]

Yelling "fire" is against the law just like killing people, carring a gun into a school, and stealing the gun so we do have a check and balance. If a person yelled "fire" would you then want to limit everyones freedom of speach? Also I'd say the member of the NRA are the responsable gun owners.

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

What a dumb ass. He would tell his wife to take their double barrell shot gun out side and fire both rounds into the air to scare off an intruder. OK, if that does not work she is now out of ammo. LMAO

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIuk3G9Xixc]Gun Joe Biden Says No Need To Own Assault Weapons: 'Buy A Shotgun - YouTube[/ame]

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

[quote=Giantone;995155]I understand how you feel but it is a "right" gauranteed by the Constitution but as I have said before it can't go unchecked.You have the right as all Americans to "Free Speach" yet the Surprem Court says it is not your right to scream "fire" in a crowded movie thearter.As always there must be checks and balances on everything,no way the founders of this country would sit back and justify the murder of 20 children it is the people (NRA) that believe that crap that scare me,they are not responsible gun owners.[/quote]

I think I did a poor job of illuminating my initial thought. However, let's first clear up free speech. Firstdown mentioned you can't scream fire in a crowded theatre. We are not actually entitled to free speech in this country, what we are entitled to, is that the government can't make laws limiting free speech. Private establishments are free to regulate speech however they deem fit, but the government can not make laws concerning speech on government land (arguable with things such as cussing bans, etc).

What I was trying to argue -- is I think the word right should not be used. I consider a right something that everyone is entitled to, regardless of their situation. There are very few 'rights' in this world, and they can greatly vary based on location. If owning a gun were a true right, then everyone would be entitled to have a gun. Felons, mentally handicapped, prisoners, etc. Everyone would be allowed to own a gun. I don't think anyone is in favor of everyone being guaranteed access to a weapon.

The 2nd amendendment reads:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Like everything else in this document, it was written to be ambigious. I can see many interpretations being justified different ways. All I was trying to say, is that calling it a right is a dangerous path. To me, gun ownership is anagalous to driving a car. You should have to meet some minimum standard, there are multiple classes of ownership (Handgun, Rifle, etc etc), and if you don't treat it responsibly - it can be taken away. I consider those types of rules a priviledge, not a right.

Regardless of the words used (priviledge vs right) I think most of us are in agreement that certain people should not be given access to firearms.

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

[quote=Daseal;995414] If owning a gun were a true right, then everyone would be entitled to have a gun. Felons, mentally handicapped, prisoners, etc. Everyone would be allowed to own a gun. I don't think anyone is in favor of everyone being guaranteed access to a weapon.[/quote]

I would agree. No one here is arguing that we arm everyone. You could also include NOT having to keep and bear arms.

[quote=Daseal;995414]To me, gun ownership is anagalous to driving a car. You should have to meet some minimum standard, there are multiple classes of ownership (Handgun, Rifle, etc etc), and if you don't treat it responsibly - it can be taken away. I consider those types of rules a priviledge, not a right. [/quote]

That's how it currently works. I had to pass a basic firearms exam, then if you opt for a CCW there are even more rigorous tests etc. Certain people lose their right to have a firearm, like felons.

[quote=Daseal;995414]Regardless of the words used (priviledge vs right) I think most of us are in agreement that certain people should not be given access to firearms.[/quote]

And they're not. It's a right that your forfeit if you demonstrate you can't be responsible.

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

[quote=RedskinRat;995379]Please show any evidence you have for the NRA justifying the murders of 20 kids, or is this yet another of your poorly constructed sentences that adds nothing to the discussion?[/quote]

The NRA response to the killings in Conn and the Ad using the presidents children are proof enough for me.

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

[quote=RedskinRat;995415]I would agree. No one here is arguing that we arm everyone. You could also include NOT having to keep and bear arms.



That's how it currently works. I had to pass a basic firearms exam, then if you opt for a CCW there are even more rigorous tests etc. Certain people lose their right to have a firearm, like felons.



And they're not. It's a right that your forfeit if you demonstrate you can't be responsible.[/quote]



So what about Gun shows and lets say I sell my guns to joe Smith next door nothing illeagel about is there,no,do I have to perform rigorous tests etc on them,no.

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

[quote=Giantone;995429]So what about Gun shows and lets say I sell my guns to joe Smith next door nothing illeagel about is there,no,do I have to perform rigorous tests etc on them,no.[/quote]

All Lic gun dealers have to do back ground checks at gun shows.

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

Correct:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj3xsX9XMMY&feature=player_embedded]NRA Stand and Fight: We Are America - YouTube[/ame]

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

Prime example of why Gun Free Zones are only good for criminals:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t5BTl6m7Kk&feature=player_embedded]Campus Rape Victim Amanda Collins Responds to Colorado State Rep. Joe Salazar - YouTube[/ame]

Tough to hear her recounting the crime.

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

[quote=firstdown;995435]All Lic gun dealers have to do back ground checks at gun shows.[/quote]

Thats not true for rifles.
Not in Michigan anyways.
I've bought plenty of bolt action rifles at gun shows and all I needed was a drivers license and they just record info from it or take a digital picture of it and file it.
And you cant buy a pistol without first getting a permit from the cop shop so there is no need for a background check after that, the cops have already done it.

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

[quote=Giantone;995429]So what about Gun shows and lets say I sell my guns to joe Smith next door nothing illeagel about is there,no,do I have to perform rigorous tests etc on them,no.[/quote]

It all depends on what kind of gun and what the state laws are.
Its not that simple.

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;995626]Thats not true for rifles.
Not in Michigan anyways.
I've bought plenty of bolt action rifles at gun shows and all I needed was a drivers license and they just record info from it or take a digital picture of it and file it.
And you cant buy a pistol without first getting a permit from the cop shop so there is no need for a background check after that, the cops have already done it.[/quote]

Here in Va there is no check if your buying the gun at a gun show from an individual. If its a lic. gun dealer then a back ground check is done for any type of gun.

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

Living here in Maryland I will admit this surprised me.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/md-politics/washington-post-poll-finds-support-for-stricter-gun-control-laws-in-maryland/2013/02/26/71fdabc0-7f98-11e2-8074-b26a871b165a_story.html]Washington Post poll finds support for stricter gun control laws in Maryland - The Washington Post[/url]

Maryland residents overwhelmingly support Gov. [URL="http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-01-14/local/36322986_1_gun-control-package-gun-control-measures-gun-control-debate"][COLOR=#0066cc]Martin O’Malley’s plan[/COLOR][/URL] to force gun buyers to submit to fingerprinting, safety training and more background checks, according to a new [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/polling/marylanders-support-several-gun-restrictions-post/2013/02/26/52b32790-8033-11e2-a671-0307392de8de_page.html"][COLOR=#0066cc]Washington Post poll[/COLOR][/URL].
Across the state, fully 85 percent back the governor’s licensing plan and 73 percent do so “strongly.” They also support banning high-capacity ammunition clips and assault weapons — two other portions of O’Malley’s (D) bill, which in the wake of the December [URL="http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-12-22/national/36017008_1_violent-video-games-lanza-twitter-account"][COLOR=#0066cc]school shooting in Newtown, Conn[/COLOR][/URL]., would give Maryland among the [URL="http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-01-18/local/36409723_1_gun-owners-gun-control-package-gun-licenses"][COLOR=#0066cc]nation’s strictest gun-control laws[/COLOR][/URL].

Re: Societal Decay - Henson Ong
 

Jeez I am so tired of hearing about high cap magazines.
There are so many ways around that its effing ridiculous.