Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

This is the problem with the world today. People take offense to almost anything someone says today.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

I'd be fine changing the name if we got our 36MM in cap space back and John Mara was tarred and feathered and the giants lost all their draft picks for e next 3 years. oh, and all the other teams with potentially offensive names changed their names too. saints could be offensive to Catholics and atheists alike. Packer could be a derogatory name for a gay man, so that name should change too. Use of the names Titans would be offensive to ancient Greeks. I think one day, buccaneer or dolphin could be turned into a derogatory word for some minority so it's probably best to be proactive and just change the name now. Just to be safe, all teams should just be assigned a number, numbers will probably never be offensive to anyone.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;993814]I'd be fine changing the name if we got our 36MM in cap space back and John Mara was tarred and feathered and the giants lost all their draft picks for e next 3 years. oh, and all the other teams with potentially offensive names changed their names too. saints could be offensive to Catholics and atheists alike. Packer could be a derogatory name for a gay man, so that name should change too. Use of the names Titans would be offensive to ancient Greeks. I think one day, buccaneer or dolphin could be turned into a derogatory word for some minority so it's probably best to be proactive and just change the name now. Just to be safe, all teams should just be assigned a number, numbers will probably never be offensive to anyone.[/quote]

Packer=fudgeman & throbbing :)

Greaseman days!!

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=Leader In Sports;993809]If you look in a thesaurus, "Yellow Man" is a derogatory term for an Asian. Same with Redskin for a Native American. Back when the Redskins were name (1933), Redskin was a common term, as was Yellow Man, the N word (see what I mean) and many other terms that are now offensive.

I personally don't see a problem with a name like the Chiefs, Braves, Warriors etc as they are not negative terms. They are no different than the Raiders, Vikings, Bucs etc.

Look at it this way, would you walk up to a Native American and refer to him as a "Redskin" to his face? That to me is a good way to judge if the term is offensive.[/quote]

I wouldn't walk up to a fat man and call him Giant to his face or a gay man and call him a Packer. Does that mean those team names are offensive too?

Just because a word could bee twisted by a bad person to deride someone else, doesn't mean the word itself is inherently offensive. The word itself is not offensive, was not created to be offensive, and was not viewed as offensive when the name was chosen for the team. If it was, no one would have wanted to play for the team because the players would be associating themselves with something they looked down upon.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=Hog1;993775]........Man card, please[/quote]

You drink a few of my Apple Martinis and you will realize you need a man card to handle them.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[url]http://anthropology.si.edu/goddard/redskin.pdf[/url]

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;993816]I wouldn't walk up to a fat man and call him Giant to his face or a gay man and call him a Packer. Does that mean those team names are offensive too?

Just because a word could bee twisted by a bad person to deride someone else, doesn't mean the word itself is inherently offensive. The word itself is not offensive, was not created to be offensive, and was not viewed as offensive when the name was chosen for the team. If it was, no one would have wanted to play for the team because the players would be associating themselves with something they looked down upon.[/quote]The difference with your examples and others are the Packers were named after meat packers. The Giants were named after mythical, larger than life figures. Redskins were always intended to represent Native Americans.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

Now comes Florio saying RGIII needs to "do the right thing" and be the catalyst for the name change....

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/09/momentum-builds-for-a-redskins-name-change-and-one-man-can-make-it-happen/]Momentum builds for a Redskins name change, and one man can make it happen | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=GMScud;993821]Now comes Florio saying RGIII needs to "do the right thing" and be the catalyst for the name change....

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/09/momentum-builds-for-a-redskins-name-change-and-one-man-can-make-it-happen/]Momentum builds for a Redskins name change, and one man can make it happen | ProFootballTalk[/url][/quote]

It's whiners like Florio who don't care if the name changes, he wants to be the guy the floated the idea. It's like the old SF mayor Gavin "douchebag" Newsom started the whole gay marriage movement for his own popularity to get elected governor not because he cared about gay people. Screw those a-holes with their own agenda.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=Leader In Sports;993820]The difference with your examples and others are the Packers were named after meat packers. The Giants were named after mythical, larger than life figures. Redskins were always intended to represent Native Americans.[/quote]

But it was not a racist term at the time it was chosen to name the team, and that's the point. The majority of people who complain about the team name are upper middle class white people who feel taking e position that the name is racist makes them more enlightened than everyone else. One fifth of the world is starving. Millions of people In this country are unemployed, but these people pick the name of a sports team as a cause to rally behind? Find a worthwhile cause and leave the redskins the F alone.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;993823]It's whiners like Florio who don't care if the name changes, he wants to be the guy the floated the idea. It's like the old SF mayor Gavin "douchebag" Newsom started the whole gay marriage movement for his own popularity to get elected governor not because he cared about gay people. Screw those a-holes with their own agenda.[/quote]

I agree. I knew by the title that the article would be stupid. Momentum is not building to change the name. That's a lie. It's not. A few media assholes are whining like they always are this time of year when there's no news to report and their editor needs them to write something for the paper. It's lazy journalism at its finest. And I love how florio goes out of his way to say its a fact that the name is racist, when a historical examination of the term by experts says the contrary.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;993816]I wouldn't walk up to a fat man and call him Giant to his face or a gay man and call him a Packer. Does that mean those team names are offensive too?

Just because a word could bee twisted by a bad person to deride someone else, doesn't mean the word itself is inherently offensive. The word itself is not offensive, was not created to be offensive, and was not viewed as offensive when the name was chosen for the team. If it was, no one would have wanted to play for the team because the players would be associating themselves with something they looked down upon.[/quote]

Good point. Many have tried to put the word Redskin on equal footing with the N word, but if another team called themselves that in 1933 would it have even been tolerated? Even 1933? Not saying Native Americans shouldn't be offended by the word Redskin, because who's to tell anyone what should or shouldn't offend them, but the word has become far more associated with the football team than as a slur. And don't polls show that most Native Americans aren't offended by the Redskins use of the term?

Although it originated as a derogatory word intended to inflict harm, isn't it possible that the word has evolved into something positive? Or that the use of the word altogether has ceased except in this one particular case?

Someone, some group or society as a whole decided to use the word as a slur. Isn't it possible for another generation's someone, some group or society as a whole to decide it no longer has any application whatsoever as a derogatory word?

I'd hate to see the name changed, but I'm all for eliminating the Indian head logo. I like the R helmet anyway.

I just feel like fans adore the name, because it's associated with the team they love. The negative connotation no longer exists.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=Leader In Sports;993809]If you look in a thesaurus, "Yellow Man" is a derogatory term for an Asian. Same with Redskin for a Native American. Back when the Redskins were name (1933), Redskin was a common term, as was Yellow Man, the N word (see what I mean) and many other terms that are now offensive.

I personally don't see a problem with a name like the Chiefs, Braves, Warriors etc as they are not negative terms. They are no different than the Raiders, Vikings, Bucs etc.

Look at it this way, would you walk up to a Native American and refer to him as a "Redskin" to his face? That to me is a good way to judge if the term is offensive.[/quote]

If I really wanted to insult a Native American, I would not call them Redskin, because it would seem corny now that the term has been associated with an NFL team for 80 years. It's been de-stigmatized, as far as I'm concerned.

You could use the word 'Cowboy' as an insult to someone who is reckless and selfish. Yankee too. Or Rebel.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=44Deezel;993826]Good point. Many have tried to put the word Redskin on equal footing with the N word, but if another team called themselves that in 1933 would it have even been tolerated? Even 1933? Not saying Native Americans shouldn't be offended by the word Redskin, because who's to tell anyone what should or shouldn't offend them, but the word has become far more associated with the football team than as a slur. And don't polls show that most Native Americans aren't offended by the Redskins use of the term?

[B]Although it originated as a derogatory word intended to inflict harm[/B], isn't it possible that the word has evolved into something positive? Or that the use of the word altogether has ceased except in this one particular case?[/quote]

That's actually not true. It did not start as a derogatory term. A a later point, some in pop culture of the day used it as such, but it was short-lived.

[quote=]Someone, some group or society as a whole decided to use the word as a slur. Isn't it possible for another generation's someone, some group or society as a whole to decide it no longer has any application whatsoever as a derogatory word?[/quote]. Excellent point.

[quote=]I'd hate to see the name changed, but I'm all for eliminating the Indian head logo. I like the R helmet anyway.

I just feel like fans adore the name, because it's associated with the team they love. The negative connotation no longer exists.[/quote]

I agree with you on both points. I don't have a problem with the logo, other than its a bit dated. I think the R helmet is sick looking. And by saying sick looking, I'm hoping I am not offending anyone who is legitimately suffering from sort of illness. I'm simply using the word the way the kids did when I was growing up, to indicate that I think an idea is really awesome.

And To anyone who thinks the term redskin is currently a racist word, please tell me the last time you heard someone use the word in a derogatory manner. I'm 33 years old and I've never heard the word used in a pejorative way in my life. Not once. Have you? If not, then you need to shut up and get off your high horse or find another team to root for. We don't want you here.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;993829]That's actually not true. It did not start as a derogatory term. A a later point, some in pop culture of the day used it as such, but it was short-lived.

. Excellent point.



I agree with you on both points. I don't have a problem with the logo, other than its a bit dated. I think the R helmet is sick looking. And by saying sick looking, I'm hoping I am not offending anyone who is legitimately suffering from sort of illness. I'm simply using the word the way the kids did when I was growing up, to indicate that I think an idea is really awesome.

[B]And To anyone who thinks the term redskin is currently a racist word, please tell me the last time you heard someone use the word in a derogatory manner. I'm 33 years old and I've never heard the word used in a pejorative way in my life. Not once. Have you? If not, then you need to shut up and get off your high horse or find another team to root for. We don't want you here[/B].[/quote]What part of the country did you grow up? I spent a majority of my childhood out West. Yes, I did hear it as a negative term used to describe people, just like I heard the N word.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=Leader In Sports;993809]If you look in a thesaurus, "Yellow Man" is a derogatory term for an Asian. Same with Redskin for a Native American. Back when the Redskins were name (1933), Redskin was a common term, as was Yellow Man, the N word (see what I mean) and many other terms that are now offensive.

I personally don't see a problem with a name like the Chiefs, Braves, Warriors etc as they are not negative terms. They are no different than the Raiders, Vikings, Bucs etc.

Look at it this way, would you walk up to a Native American and refer to him as a "Redskin" to his face? That to me is a good way to judge if the term is offensive.[/quote]

If I really wanted to insult a Native American, I would not call them Redskin, because it would seem corny now that the term has been associated with an NFL team for 80 years. It's been de-stigmatized, as far as I'm concerned.

You could use the word 'Cowboy' as an insult to someone who is reckless and selfish. Yankee too. Or Rebel.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=44Deezel;993831]If I really wanted to insult a Native American, I would not call them Redskin, because it would seem corny now that the term has been associated with an NFL team for 80 years. It's been de-stigmatized, as far as I'm concerned.

You could use the word 'Cowboy' as an insult to someone who is reckless and selfish. Yankee too. Or Rebel.[/quote]

This was an accidental re-post. Sorry.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

Just curious, were the Native American High School's using the "Redskins" as their mascot / team name on there too? Or was it just our Redskins? Anybody know?

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=Leader In Sports;993830]What part of the country did you grow up? I spent a majority of my childhood out West. Yes, I did hear it as a negative term used to describe people, just like I heard the N word.[/quote]

Sorry but I call BS. I grew up in North Carolina. My first wife was half Cherokee and looked it. She grew up in a small town where the population was 99% white , KKK was still prominent and no one ever called her a redskin. So I find it hard to believe you've heard the word prominently used.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;993834].....
And To anyone who thinks the term redskin is currently a racist word, please tell me the last time you heard someone use the word in a derogatory manner. I'm 33 years old and I've never heard the word used in a pejorative way in my life. Not once. Have you? If not, then you need to shut up and get off your high horse or find another team to root for. We don't want you here.[/quote]
[quote]What part of the country did you grow up? I spent a majority of my childhood out West. Yes, I did hear it as a negative term used to describe people, just like I heard the N word.[/quote]

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;993834]Sorry but I call BS. I grew up in North Carolina. My first wife was half Cherokee and looked it. She grew up in a small town where the population was 99% white , KKK was still prominent and no one ever called her a redskin. So I find it hard to believe you've heard the word prominently used.[/quote]
I did not say prominently. You said you did not hear it once, and asked if anyone else had. While I have heard it used in a derogatory manner more than once, I would not use the word prominently.

Since most people don't read entire threads and keep straight who is who, let me restate my original posting (paraphrasing because I don't feel like looking it up):

I see both sides of this issue. I have many friends that played for the Redskins and see their love and loyalty to the team and the name associated with it. I have also seen hateful words and can see legitimately where this is seen by a race of people as one. It is a tough issue with strong feelings on both sides of the argument.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

Just curious....how is it decided that something is derogatory? For example...the N word is clearly so...all of society would agree. Even those who would use the term use it pejoratively. Contrast that with Redskin. Freely used by many in an obviously non-pejorative way. Seems like those who would be offended dont actually agree that it is indeed offensive. Yet it seems many, even the dictionary, have decided it is a offensive word. How does that work? Could we get a movement together to deem the word cowboy offensive? Seriously. Is all it takes is a few vocal people to take offense and suddenly a word is offensive?

Doesn't it matter that the term's offensiveness is debated and that it is actually being used in a manner meant to honor?

I live in "native America " and I have redskins decked on my car and I've never had one person say anything

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=Leader In Sports;993835]I did not say prominently. You said you did not hear it once, and asked if anyone else had. While I have heard it used in a derogatory manner more than once, I would not use the word prominently.

Since most people don't read entire threads and keep straight who is who, let me restate my original posting (paraphrasing because I don't feel like looking it up):

I see both sides of this issue. I have many friends that played for the Redskins and see their love and loyalty to the team and the name associated with it. I have also seen hateful words and can see legitimately [B]where this is seen by a race of people as one[/B]. It is a tough issue with strong feelings on both sides of the argument.[/quote]

I don't know any Native Americans, haven't been in their environment, so I ask this purely out of ignorance:
Is the word "Redskin" seen by the whole race as a hateful word.
I am fairly confident that any black man or woman who is called a n***** by someone outside their personal circle would take offense at it, and it was used often that way very recently.
I guess I don't see the word "Redskin" as that same widespread angst, more so a smaller portion that portrays itself as speaking for the whole.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;993840]I don't know any Native Americans, haven't been in their environment, so I ask this purely out of ignorance:
Is the word "Redskin" seen by the [B]whole race as a hateful word.[/B]
I am fairly confident that any black man or woman who is called a n***** by someone outside their personal circle would take offense at it, and it was used often that way very recently.
I guess I don't see the word "Redskin" as that same widespread angst, more so a smaller portion that portrays itself as speaking for the whole.[/quote]
I think it would be impossible to say a "whole race" with any word. You will always have someone who will "own" the word.

That is what is evolving with the N word. There is a portion of African American society that is taking ownership of the word, and an entirely different portion that is offended by the action. We are discussing shades of gray, not black and white.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=44Deezel;993826]Good point. Many have tried to put the word Redskin on equal footing with the N word, but if another team called themselves that in 1933 would it have even been tolerated? Even 1933? Not saying Native Americans shouldn't be offended by the word Redskin, because who's to tell anyone what should or shouldn't offend them, but the word has become far more associated with the football team than as a slur. And don't polls show that most Native Americans aren't offended by the Redskins use of the term?

Although it originated as a derogatory word intended to inflict harm, isn't it possible that the word has evolved into something positive? Or that the use of the word altogether has ceased except in this one particular case?

Someone, some group or society as a whole decided to use the word as a slur. Isn't it possible for another generation's someone, some group or society as a whole to decide it no longer has any application whatsoever as a derogatory word?

I'd hate to see the name changed, but I'm all for eliminating the Indian head logo. I like the R helmet anyway.

I just feel like fans adore the name, because it's associated with the team they love. The negative connotation no longer exists.[/quote]

Not me. If they get rid of the Indian head logo I would want the spear helmets.

[QUOTE=Leader In Sports;993844]I think it would be impossible to say a "whole race" with any word. You will always have someone who will "own" the word.

That is what is evolving with the N word. There is a portion of African American society that is taking ownership of the word, and an entirely different portion that is offended by the action. We are discussing shades of gray, not black and white.[/QUOTE]
I disagree entirely with that. If a non black uses the n word it will only be received negatively, even though within the black community it has some slang uses. But none of those uses would rise to the positive connotation of the term Redskins when used referring to the football team. There is far more contrast with respect to those terms than simple shades of gray.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=Leader In Sports;993809]If you look in a thesaurus, "Yellow Man" is a derogatory term for an Asian. Same with Redskin for a Native American. Back when the Redskins were name (1933), Redskin was a common term, as was Yellow Man, the N word (see what I mean) and many other terms that are now offensive.

I personally don't see a problem with a name like the Chiefs, Braves, Warriors etc as they are not negative terms. They are no different than the Raiders, Vikings, Bucs etc.

Look at it this way, would you walk up to a Native American and refer to him as a "Redskin" to his face? That to me is a good way to judge if the term is offensive.[/quote]

[quote=Leader In Sports;993820]The difference with your examples and others are the Packers were named after meat packers. The Giants were named after mythical, larger than life figures. Redskins were always intended to represent Native Americans.[/quote]

You actually destroy your first answer with your second. The intent of the words you are using were not in question back in the day. Nigger (If its censored, which I suspect it will, the n-word) and Yellow man were ALWAYS meant as a racist term aka a derogatory term. Redskin was neutral until 20 or 30 years ago.

[url=http://www.rmusd.net/education/school/school.php?sectiondetailid=75]Red Mesa High School - Home[/url]

Here is one Indian Reservation that I would go to and say Redskin, since they themselves do it as well. I have also worn Redskins gear onto a different Indian reservation. It did not turn out how you want to claim that it would. I got high fives and a large portion were Redskins fans themselves.

Do the Indians have a say in this? And if not, isnt that in and of itself racist?

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

At this point I am going to bow out of this conversation, especially since I legitimately see both points, but am sort of in a position to only debate from the one side. I will close with this.

I grew up out West (the town RG3 is from for a time and then the Phoenix area for a majority of my childhood). I am old enough to remember the Indian school in Phoenix where children were essentially forceably removed from their parents to assimilate the future generations into our culture. The children were also then "hired out" to local families as house keepers, babysitters etc.

As strongly as most of the diehard fans feel about the issue on this site feel, even stronger are the people objecting because of real life issues. Just try to look at things from the other side and while your position might not change, your feelings towards their efforts might.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

I lived in NC my whole life, and my mother's family is from Fayetteville, NC. I have never in my 40 years of living heard anybody use the term Redskins as a derogatory meaning. I seriously doubt the claim by LoS that he heard it used out West. Mind you, Fayetteville is part of the area the Lumbee Indians call home. (formerly Cherokees)

[url=http://www.lumbeetribe.com/]Welcome to Lumbee Tribe[/url]

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=Leader In Sports;993849]At this point I am going to bow out of this conversation, especially since I legitimately see both points, but am sort of in a position to only debate from the one side. I will close with this.

I grew up out West (the town RG3 is from for a time and then the Phoenix area for a majority of my childhood).[B] I am old enough to remember the Indian school in Phoenix where children were essentially forceably removed from their parents to assimilate the future generations into our culture. The children were also then "hired out" to local families as house keepers, babysitters etc.
[/B]
As strongly as most of the diehard fans feel about the issue on this site feel, even stronger are the people objecting because of real life issues. Just try to look at things from the other side and while your position might not change, your feelings towards their efforts might.[/quote]

I don't see how the name of a football team has anything to do with any of that. The key facts are this:

1. The name redskin was coined by native Americans to refer to themselves. It had no derogatory usage at the time.

2. When the name was chosen for the team, it was still not pejorative.

3. LATER, SOME people may have used the word in a pejorative way.

4. Today, the word is not used in a derogatory way. When the name redskin is used, people universally think of the team.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

Why don't they run a poll with different Native American tribes and ask what they would rename the Redskins to. It would be an interesting test.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;993856]Why don't they run a poll with different Native American tribes and ask what they would rename the Redskins to. It would be an interesting test.[/quote]

I have a better idea. Why don't we just send blankets with small pox to mike florio, mike wise, and all the other people who claim the name is racist without understanding the facts.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=Giantone;993790]I see we pick and choose. I said in another post I thought this was over years ago,it seems kind of silly to keep rehashing this thing.


here it is....

[URL="http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=3c1074125499a575d1122710576a769d&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thewarpath.net%2Fnewreply.php%3Fdo%3Dnewreply%26p%3D993777&v=1&libid=1360398251703&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.csmonitor.com%2FUSA%2FJustice%2F2009%2F1116%2Fp02s07-usju.html&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thewarpath.net%2Fredskins-locker-room%2F51711-smithsonian-museum-yet-another-thread-team-5.html&title=The%20Warpath%20-%20Reply%20to%20Topic&txt=Washington%20Redskins%20can%20keep%20team%20name%3B%20Supreme%20Court%20refuses%20native%20Americans'%20suit%20-%20CSMonitor.com&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13603984623512"][COLOR=#0066cc]Washington Redskins can keep team name; Supreme Court refuses native Americans' suit - CSMonitor.com[/COLOR][/URL][/quote]Your one-line "free dictionary" post earlier was stupid, unsupported, and refuted by numerous posts before and since. That's the point.

Not to mention the "free dictionary" cites one tribe in a non-derogatory fashion, never mind all the other tribes associated non-derogatorily with "REDSKINS". So the "free dictionary" link doesn't even support itself about the name being somehow offensive.

So again, thanks for proving the name isn't offensive. :cheers Whether you meant to or not, lol.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=HailGreen28;993862]Your one-line "free dictionary" post earlier was stupid, .[/quote]

sorry you feel that way.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=Giantone;993867]sorry you feel that way.[/quote]Well, look at the bright side. For example, your post did provide a good example how not to trust a lot of "free" sources on the internet, however unintentionally.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=HailGreen28;993869]Well, look at the bright side. For example, your post did provide a good example how not to trust a lot of "free" sources on the internet, however unintentionally.[/quote]

I'm just very thankfull you were here to let me know.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=Giantone;993875]I'm just very thankfull you were here to let me know.[/quote]lol. Concession accepted, and like you and others have said, time to move along.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

Unless you are Native American, your feeling on the matter (either way) is irrelevant. Borderline self-serving.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=Son Of Man;993905]Unless you are Native American, your feeling on the matter (either way) is irrelevant. Borderline self-serving.[/quote]

I hope that it doesn't change but If they were forced to change the name I would want it be changed back to the "Braves" the original name.

Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name
 

[quote=Son Of Man;993905]Unless you are Native American, your feeling on the matter (either way) is irrelevant. Borderline self-serving.[/quote]
No matter what you feel about the issue of the name, I will strongly disagree with this statement. (now I am back out of this discussion):

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came]First they came... - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]
[quote]

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
[/quote]