Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=FRPLG;1012011]Problem is that a good 80% of the electorate doesn't give two craps about any of this. At least not enough to put done their remote and Twinkies and participate in a meaningful way. "Just tell me where to go every 4 years and I'll vote for the people that seem the coolest"[/quote]

mmmmm Twinkies.....

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=firstdown;1011695]I'm torn on this issue. Where do you draw the line? If they are truly just tracking questionable contacts from outside the country then that might not be so bad. If I'm receiving the contacts I would think they would also start tracking me. [B]We just had this administration abusing its power (IRS scandle)[/B] so why should we believe them on this issue.[/quote]

i didnt know that was linked to the WH .. . i thought it was a couple employees at an IRS office in Ohio who pulled the tea party files bc it represented a new type of tax group that they wanted add'l instructions on how to handle the files ... employees who are registered republicans.

re. the NSA and the conservative republican stance = i find it very funny and hypocritical for conservatives to act appalled and lay blame squarely at pres obamas feet when they were the ones waiving the "its a matter of national security" when the patriot act came up for renewal or other top secret programs the bush admin didnt make known to the public ....

repub pres = matter of nat'l security, none of our biz, the price we pay for protecting our land from others

dem pres = scandal of nixon-esque proportions in which our pres is intentionally trampling our constitutional rights in a covert and planned operation to take our guns from us to allow a smooth socialist military take over!

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

OMFG, I love it when the lies are so transparent!

[URL="http://news.yahoo.com/nsa-director-says-plot-against-152714399.html"]NSA director says plot against Wall Street foiled[/URL]

[I]The U.S. foiled a plot to bomb the New York Stock Exchange because of the sweeping surveillance programs at the heart of a debate over national security and personal privacy, officials said Tuesday at a rare open hearing on intelligence — a set-piece for supporters of the spying.

The House Intelligence Committee, led by lawmakers sympathetic to the extraordinary surveillance, provided a venue for officials to defend the once-secret programs. [U]There was limited probing of claims[/U] that the collection of people's phone records and Internet usage has disrupted dozens of terrorist plots, [U]and few details were volunteered.[/U][/I]

Pathetic.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1012467]OMFG, I love it when the lies are so transparent!

[URL="http://news.yahoo.com/nsa-director-says-plot-against-152714399.html"]NSA director says plot against Wall Street foiled[/URL]

[I]The U.S. foiled a plot to bomb the New York Stock Exchange because of the sweeping surveillance programs at the heart of a debate over national security and personal privacy, officials said Tuesday at a rare open hearing on intelligence — a set-piece for supporters of the spying.

The House Intelligence Committee, led by lawmakers sympathetic to the extraordinary surveillance, provided a venue for officials to defend the once-secret programs. [U]There was limited probing of claims[/U] that the collection of people's phone records and Internet usage has disrupted dozens of terrorist plots, [U]and few details were volunteered.[/U][/I]

Pathetic.[/quote]
At least they aren't waterboarding terrorists, but I can't believe they protected those wall street crooks

[/sarc]

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

Should've listened to Shia

[YT]3ux1hpLvqMw[/YT]

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

Ahead of his time.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPTJXdBBrcU]Bill Hicks on Presidential Agendas (ENG SUB) - YouTube[/url]

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2344098/NSA-hearing-Hot-mic-catches-NSA-boss-praising-FBI-chiefs-supportive-testimony-surveillance-programs.html]NSA hearing: Hot mic catches NSA boss praising FBI chiefs for supportive testimony on surveillance programs | Mail Online[/url]


They don't even hide the corruption and lies anymore. "Hey, the America people are ****ing idiots and they'll let me do whatever I want." I'm sure he does want to give his buddy a beer for covering their asses.


No details or arrests on any of these so called "plots" they foiled. Amazing.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

Both should be fired.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=FRPLG;1012011]Problem is that a good 80% of the electorate doesn't give two craps about any of this. At least not enough to put done their remote and Twinkies and participate in a meaningful way. "Just tell me where to go every 4 years and I'll vote for the people that seem the coolest"[/quote]

Where the hell are they getting Twinkies?

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=firstdown;1012573]Where the hell are they getting Twinkies?[/quote]

All the fatties in the house say "Ho!"

[URL="http://www.nbcnews.com/business/twinkies-real-ones-back-store-shelves-july-6C9590050"]Twinkies[/URL]

[I]Stand down Twinkies hoarders, you can start eating your secret stash.[/I]
[I]Twinkies will hit store shelves nationally by late July, Michael Cramer, executive vice president of Hostess Brands LLC told NBC News on Thursday. "We expect to be making and selling in July," he said. "Probably the later half of the month before the product hits the stores."[/I]
[I]All of the classic Hostess snack brands will return, some making their return in August and September. Hostess Donettes and some of the snack cakes will be among the first to return. And "Twinkies for sure," Cramer said. [/I]

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[URL="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2344579/FBI-director-Robert-Mueller-admits-using-domestic-drones-spy-US-citizens.html"]Drones used to spy on US citizens on US soil.[/URL]

[I]The head of the FBI has admitted that the agency uses drones in the U.S. to spy on citizens.

FBI director Robert Mueller told congress the agency owns several drones but has not yet formed policies or guidelines on their use.

Confirmation that the U.S. is using the surveillance equipment to monitor its own citizens comes after the NSA phone tracking scandal rocked trust in the government.[/I]

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1012592][URL="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2344579/FBI-director-Robert-Mueller-admits-using-domestic-drones-spy-US-citizens.html"]Drones used to spy on US citizens on US soil.[/URL]

[I]The head of the FBI has admitted that the agency uses drones in the U.S. to spy on citizens.

FBI director Robert Mueller told congress the agency owns several drones but has not yet formed policies or guidelines on their use.

Confirmation that the U.S. is using the surveillance equipment to monitor its own citizens comes after the NSA phone tracking scandal rocked trust in the government.[/I][/quote]

Leaving aside the FBI, many local law enforcement folks use drones for surveillance. It's quite common.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

With respect, local LE have far less ways to ruin your day\week\life.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[IMG]http://i2.minus.com/jMTZyCHiwS3Q1.png[/IMG]

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1012592][URL="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2344579/FBI-director-Robert-Mueller-admits-using-domestic-drones-spy-US-citizens.html"]Drones used to spy on US citizens on US soil.[/URL]

[I]The head of the FBI has admitted that the agency uses drones in the U.S. to spy on citizens.

FBI director Robert Mueller told congress the agency owns several drones but has not yet formed policies or guidelines on their use.

Confirmation that the U.S. is using the surveillance equipment to monitor its own citizens comes after the NSA phone tracking scandal rocked trust in the government.[/I][/quote]

air surveillance should required a signed warrant. Im more pissed drones flying around my house than the nsa thing.

My initial thought is data mining call data doesnt bother me one bit, but if they are recording and listening in on calls...i thought that took a judge signed warrant? If their listening in without it, isnt that illegal????


And this weasel flying all around isnt a hero in my book but a coward who has committed a crime. I dont care if we put a bullet in his head

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=Chico23231;1013035]air surveillance should required a signed warrant. Im more pissed drones flying around my house than the nsa thing.

My initial thought is data mining call data doesnt bother me one bit, but if they are recording and listening in on calls...i thought that took a judge signed warrant? If their listening in without it, isnt that illegal????


And this weasel flying all around isnt a hero in my book but a coward who has committed a crime. I dont care if we put a bullet in his head[/quote]

even when a warrant is "required," they have a 99.7% approval rate (or something like that, so the whole thing is buggered anyways. that's part of the problem - saying "we think he may or may not be somehow involved in something, maybe" now qualifies as actionable.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/pelosis-defense-nsa-surveillance-draws-boos-183845402.html]Pelosi's defense of NSA surveillance draws boos[/url]

She deserves to be booed. Deserves more than that to be honest with you. It's sad the people who have swore to uphold the Constitution are systematically destroying it. We call these type of people traitors.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[url]http://news.yahoo.com/russia-rejects-us-demand-snowdens-extradition-092352868.html[/url]

Sen. John Kerry tells Russia to "do the right thing" in handing over Snowden. I find it laughable and ironic such a statement could be ushered out of the mouths of the biggest hypocrites in the world. We spy on its citizens, we've murdered them without trail, we've tortured prisoners and held them indefinitely without any legal process and this asshole has the nerve to tell another country to "do the right thing". I imagine the rest of the world should be giving us the middle finger, and rightfully so. We deserve it.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1013180][url=http://news.yahoo.com/russia-rejects-us-demand-snowdens-extradition-092352868.html]Russia rejects US demand for Snowden's extradition[/url]

Sen. John Kerry tells Russia to "do the right thing" in handing over Snowden. I find it laughable and ironic such a statement could be ushered out of the mouths of the biggest hypocrites in the world. We spy on its citizens, we've murdered them without trail, we've tortured prisoners and held them indefinitely without any legal process and this asshole has the nerve to tell another country to "do the right thing". I imagine the rest of the world should be giving us the middle finger, and rightfully so. We deserve it.[/quote]

What has the US done that is worst than what places like China, Russia, Venezuela, and even my home country of Ecuador have done in terms of individual rights? Looking at your internet history? Listening in to your cell phone conversations? I don't fully justify PRISM and I feel that the public should be concerned about it and demand answers from the government. At the same time, I don't feel like cell phones and the internet are completely secure.

I think when stories like this happen, people lose perspective. Russia and China would be asking the same thing if it was one of their people that was leaking classified information. Actually, Snowden would be dead by now if he had been a Chinese or Russian who was leaking classified information. Even if he gets captured by US authorities, nothing will happen to Snowden, except life in jail. If the US did not execute Aldrich Ames or Robert Hanssen, who did far worst things in terms of disclosing classified information.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1013192]What has the US done that is worst than what places like China, Russia, Venezuela, and even my home country of Ecuador have done in terms of individual rights? Looking at your internet history? Listening in to your cell phone conversations? I don't fully justify PRISM and I feel that the public should be concerned about it and demand answers from the government. [B]At the same time, I don't feel like cell phones and the internet are completely secure.[/B]I think when stories like this happen, people lose perspective. Russia and China would be asking the same thing if it was one of their people that was leaking classified information. Actually, Snowden would be dead by now if he had been a Chinese or Russian who was leaking classified information. Even if he gets captured by US authorities, nothing will happen to Snowden, except life in jail. If the US did not execute Aldrich Ames or Robert Hanssen, who did far worst things in terms of disclosing classified information.[/quote]

I think this is a great point and where the loophole would be. I feel the same way more about the internet. Its not secure. I expect my telephone conversation to be more secure and my house and home to be most secure.

So in this pattern of interpersonal communication and media vs my privacy and security. I see this see this: internet < telephone < my home < me. The internet is all about freedom for everybody. Its open forum. Government has access to that the same as everyone else. I dont expect my telephone convo to be taped with out a warrent. I certainly object to the government drones spyin in my backyard with a drone.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

I have not read enough on this but are they actually listening to conversations or tracking where someone is communicating. If they find a person with a history of questionable places like Lybia, Iraq, Etc... then at that point they could go before a pannel to get the OK to listen in or track in more detail. Do I have this right?

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=firstdown;1013201]I[B] have not read enough on this [/B]but are they actually listening to conversations or tracking where someone is communicating. If they find a person with a history of questionable places like Lybia, Iraq, Etc... then at that point they could go before a pannel to get the OK to listen in or track in more detail. Do I have this right?[/quote]

I dont know if its about my/your reading, but the fact the government hasnt been clear in their own explanition of whats going on.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

Remember when the then House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said, “But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of controversy.”?

It's kinda like that. [I]Just be assured that we're doing the right thing for the country, even though we can't show you the successes we've had. It's 50, though.

Not that we're under attack or anything, but....[/I]

**** sake!

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=Chico23231;1013193]I think this is a great point and where the loophole would be. I feel the same way more about the internet. Its not secure. I expect my telephone conversation to be more secure and my house and home to be most secure.

So in this pattern of interpersonal communication and media vs my privacy and security. I see this see this: internet < telephone < my home < me. The internet is all about freedom for everybody. Its open forum. Government has access to that the same as everyone else. I dont expect my telephone convo to be taped with out a warrent. I certainly object to the government drones spyin in my backyard with a drone.[/quote]

The only reason I don't see it as a great point, is because cell phones and internet could be more secure except that the government requires a backdoor in everything for it's exclusive use. personally, the TSA approved locks for luggage irritate the heck out of me only because it would be like the neighborhood cops saying they need a master key to all the houses in the neighborhood "just to be safe".

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=firstdown;1013201]I have not read enough on this but are they actually listening to conversations or tracking where someone is communicating. If they find a person with a history of questionable places like Lybia, Iraq, Etc... then at that point they could go before a pannel to get the OK to listen in or track in more detail. Do I have this right?[/quote]

[url=http://benswann.com/nsas-criminal-activity/]NSA’s Criminal Activity | Ben Swann Full Disclosure[/url]

This guy's video explains everything.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

my question is this...should we allow the government to do data mining through phone records and internet browsing to stop terrorists? Looking at broad amounts of data to detect terrorist activity...i dont have a problem with. When they focus then on certain individuals, thats when you need to get a warrant.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=Chico23231;1013234]my question is this...should we allow the government to do data mining through phone records and internet browsing to stop terrorists? Looking at broad amounts of data to detect terrorist activity...i dont have a problem with. When they focus then on certain individuals, thats when you need to get a warrant.[/quote]

[url=http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/hey-nsa-terrorists-dont-use-verizon-or-skype-or-gmail]Sorry, NSA, Terrorists Don't Use Verizon. Or Skype. Or Gmail. | Motherboard[/url]

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=Chico23231;1013234]my question is this...should we allow the government to do data mining through phone records and internet browsing to stop terrorists? Looking at broad amounts of data to detect terrorist activity...i dont have a problem with. When they focus then on certain individuals, thats when you need to get a warrant.[/quote]

Isn't that like saying lets go through all of H&R Blocks records, and if we see something, then we get a warrant?

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1013240]Isn't that like saying lets go through all of H&R Blocks records, and if we see something, then we get a warrant?[/quote]

i think its more like all the entires world tax records looking numbers and not specific information, and not just H&R blocks. I thinks thats more representative of the size of data.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1013238][url=http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/hey-nsa-terrorists-dont-use-verizon-or-skype-or-gmail]Sorry, NSA, Terrorists Don't Use Verizon. Or Skype. Or Gmail. | Motherboard[/url][/quote]

Does the writer think NSA is just mining data from verizon, skype and gmail? thats a lil near sighted

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1013192][B]What has the US done that is worst than what places like China, Russia, Venezuela, and even my home country of Ecuador have done in terms of individual rights?[/B] Looking at your internet history? Listening in to your cell phone conversations? I don't fully justify PRISM and I feel that the public should be concerned about it and demand answers from the government. At the same time, I don't feel like cell phones and the internet are completely secure.

I think when stories like this happen, people lose perspective. Russia and China would be asking the same thing if it was one of their people that was leaking classified information. Actually, Snowden would be dead by now if he had been a Chinese or Russian who was leaking classified information. Even if he gets captured by US authorities, nothing will happen to Snowden, except life in jail. If the US did not execute Aldrich Ames or Robert Hanssen, who did far worst things in terms of disclosing classified information.[/quote]

What timing.

[url=http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/exclusive-documents-illuminate-ecuadors-spying-practices]Exclusive: Documents Illuminate Ecuador's Spying Practices[/url]

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1013281]What timing.

[url=http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/exclusive-documents-illuminate-ecuadors-spying-practices]Exclusive: Documents Illuminate Ecuador's Spying Practices[/url][/quote]

I am not surprised.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[URL="http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/06/use-of-tor-and-e-mail-crypto-could-increase-chances-that-nsa-keeps-your-data/"]Use of Tor and e-mail crypto could increase chances that NSA keeps your data[/URL]

[I]Using online anonymity services such as Tor or sending encrypted e-mail and instant messages are grounds for US-based communications to be retained by the National Security Agency even when they're collected inadvertently, according to a secret government document published Thursday.

The document, titled Minimization Procedures Used by the National Security Agency in Connection with Acquisitions of Foreign Intelligence, is the latest bombshell leak to be dropped by UK-based newspaper The Guardian. It and a second, top-secret document detail the circumstances in which data collected on US persons under foreign intelligence authority must be destroyed or can be retained. The memos outline procedures NSA analysts must follow to ensure they stay within the mandate of minimizing data collected on US citizens and residents.[/I]

[I]And in the event that an intercepted communication is later deemed to be from a US person, the requirement to promptly destroy the material may be suspended in a variety of circumstances. Among the exceptions are "communications that are enciphered or reasonably believed to contain secret meaning, and sufficient duration may consist of any period of time during which encrypted material is subject to, or of use in, cryptanalysis."[/I]
[I]Other conditions under which intercepted US communications may be retained include when it is "reasonably believed to contain evidence of a crime that has been, is being, or is about to be committed."[/I]
[I]The document, dated July 28, 2009, bears the signature of US Attorney General Eric Holder.[/I]


Obvious to some of us, but the article should be of interest to anyone still waiting for the damn season to start.

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[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/01/george-bush-prism_n_3528249.html]George W. Bush Defends PRISM: 'I Put That Program In Place To Protect The Country'[/url]

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=Mattyk;1014017][url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/01/george-bush-prism_n_3528249.html]George W. Bush Defends PRISM: 'I Put That Program In Place To Protect The Country'[/url][/quote]




:laughing-


[quote]When asked if he is a traitor, Bush said, "I know he damaged the country."[/quote]


How can these people even sleep at night knowing they sold out the very thing they swore to uphold. The real traitors are the individuals passing laws such as the Patriot Act, and sending our country into wars that it has no business in. Call them out on their bullshit.....and seemingly you are the "unpatriotic" one or the traitor. Amazing the hypocrisy of our shit government.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1014019]How can these people even sleep at night knowing they sold out the very thing they swore to uphold. The real traitors are the individuals passing laws such as the Patriot Act, and sending our country into wars that it has no business in. Call them out on their bullshit.....and seemingly you are the "unpatriotic" one or the traitor. Amazing the hypocrisy of our shit government.[/quote]

People don't put things in perspective and are too easily distracted by the scandal of the day, such as PRISM now. Not to say that PRISM isn't a big deal, but what do you expect out of our government, when we have a citizenry that can't even get the government to be accountable for doing their jobs on the economy, health care, and education.

PRISM and the Patriot Act are good examples of issues that people are very passionate about, yet no one has had a serious debate on maybe changing the foreign policy of this nation to avoid having to worry so much about terrorism. Our nation's blind support for Israel, the constant involvement in the oil industry, and the pointless wars we've been involved in the Middle East are three reasons why people over there hate us. Yet no one ever discuss these things because they are too preoccupied with whatever political carrot is being dangled by politicians or the media.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

Well hey, at least we have gay marriage and pot to worry about.

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1014027]Our nation's blind support for Israel....[/quote]

The only successful democracy in the ME and we give them too much support?

Discuss further?

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1014027][B]People don't put things in perspective and are too easily distracted by the scandal of the day,[/B] such as PRISM now. Not to say that PRISM isn't a big deal, but what do you expect out of our government, when we have a citizenry that can't even get the government to be accountable for doing their jobs on the economy, health care, and education.

PRISM and the Patriot Act are good examples of issues that people are very passionate about, yet no one has had a serious debate on maybe changing the foreign policy of this nation to avoid having to worry so much about terrorism. Our nation's blind support for Israel, the constant involvement in the oil industry, and the pointless wars we've been involved in the Middle East are three reasons why people over there hate us. Yet no one ever discuss these things because they are too preoccupied with whatever political carrot is being dangled by politicians or the media.[/quote]

I don't necessarily agree with the rest of what you wrote, but I couldn't agree more with that

Re: PrismmmMMMMmmmm, good! NOT!
 

I agree with SS.

On Ruhskins' point about "pointless" wars. One word: OIL. We only have ever cared about the Middle East and Northern Africa because of it. It got us in this mess a long time ago and 70 years of bad (perhaps distasteful is a better word) decisions later it has us boxed in.