Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=FRPLG;1061417]This is driving me crazy. What Tripp said is 100% right. The decision comes down to pay him or lose him. If he tests the market he was going to get a deal that will probably cost us more to match than just signing him long term. If he went FA he was lost. Dithering over whether to pay him 10 or 12 a year is stupid. The extra bit just isn't that big a deal. We've been operating on a BS shoestring budget for 2years and now we want to pinch pennies? Com'on man.[/quote]

This.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

Seeing that Byrd is a FA now.

Would you have rather spent the $$$ on Byrd or Rak? Which would have the bigger impact on our 14 team?

This is assuming we only signed one big name star.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1061414]Who could it cost us? With the expansion of the cap, I have a hard time how anything but an astronomically bad long-term contract stops us from retaining important guys.[/quote]

Who knows. I'm all for keeping Rak, but I'm not going to get all excited about keeping a pretty good player on an average team just so we can say "we keep our own"

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

I go with the guy we know. If we can get Byrd also, great. I just get the feeling he is the next big FA flop. Namdi Asoumagawatchamacallit redux.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=mredskins;1061423]Seeing that Byrd is a FA now.

Would you have rather spent the $$$ on Byrd or Rak? Which would have the bigger impact on our 14 team?

This is assuming we only signed one big name star.[/quote]

No reason we couldn't have both if we wanted to.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1061368]I voted "No. We are doomed forever now. Hide your wife and kids". If Snyder is still making decisions over his personnel people, we're doomed regardless of whether we keep Rak or not.[/quote]

From what I know inside the Skins the opinion on Rak is pretty split. You make it sound like everyone that works for the Skins voted against resigning him, and it came down to Snyder vetoing the opinion of everyone in the building. If it was a split opinion I'm sure he wouldn't mind being the tiebreaker, but let's not act like it came down to Snyder vs. everyone else.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=mooby;1061435]From what I know inside the Skins the opinion on Rak is pretty split. You make it sound like everyone that works for the Skins voted against resigning him, and it came down to Snyder vetoing the opinion of everyone in the building. If it was a split opinion I'm sure he wouldn't mind being the tiebreaker, but let's not act like it came down to Snyder vs. everyone else.[/quote]

Exactly. It's a simple, lazy narrative that people want to hold onto forever. In the event of a tiebreaker, Snyder should weigh in. It's his money after all! Show me a front office & coaching staff that don't disagree on player evaluations. It's a healthy process that successful teams have. The opposite is the Al Davis Raiders and the Cowboys, would we rather have that set up?

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

Someone would be getting blamed either way. If he didn't get the tag we would hear about how it's the same old Redskins, always letting talent get away for nothing.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

As far as Orakpo the football player I'm pretty sure he was just a warm body out there, or at least the first half of the season when I was actually paying attention. As far as Orakpo the person he's always seemed like a solid citizen type guy. I'd have let him walk, personally. It's a lot of money for someone who there are better versions of elsewhere, but given our dearth of pass rush in general, I suppose keeping him this year and trying to add to our rush could actually make him more effective.

I'm thinking we can't fix it all in one offseason so this allows us to focus on some other things. I'd concentrate on upgrading the OL and front seven at the expense of other holes. Last year was unacceptable. We essentially added no one on OL or DL. This team with a good OL and some real players in the front seven has plenty of upside and room to grow even if our DB's are getting torched and our recievers can't get open without time or scheme.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=mredskins;1061423]Seeing that Byrd is a FA now.

Would you have rather spent the $$$ on Byrd or Rak? Which would have the bigger impact on our 14 team?

This is assuming we only signed one big name star.[/quote]

I really don't want Byrd. I am sure he must have wanted out of Buffalo, but my understanding is that they were trying to show him the money, and he still refused. For me, that sets a big red flag. I don't know the solution at Safety, but somehow we have to find the talent that is the right price and attitude. I just have no clue who that is, rookie or FA wise.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=TenandSix:Unacceptable;1061450]As far as Orakpo the football player I'm pretty sure he was just a warm body out there, or at least the first half of the season when I was actually paying attention. As far as Orakpo the person he's always seemed like a solid citizen type guy. I'd have let him walk, personally. It's [B]a lot of money for someone who there are better versions of elsewhere[/B], but given our dearth of pass rush in general, I suppose keeping him this year and trying to add to our rush could actually make him more effective.

I'm thinking we can't fix it all in one offseason so this allows us to focus on some other things. I'd concentrate on upgrading the OL and front seven at the expense of other holes. Last year was unacceptable. We essentially added no one on OL or DL. This team with a good OL and some real players in the front seven has plenty of upside and room to grow even if our DB's are getting torched and our recievers can't get open without time or scheme.[/quote]

Generallly, I agree with your statements.

The bolded statement is something I have seen in various forms from the "Let Rak walk" crowd. Who are these double digit pass rushers that also play OLB? As far as I can tell, the only other ones [I]currently in the conversation[/I] are possibly Ware if he gets cut or Worilds. As to each, at this stage of the game - even if he gets released - Rak>Ware (age, injury, production) and Worilds got transition tagged at 10M. In his four years, Worilds was okay but in his contract year he gets 8 sacks. Wohooo.

I just don't see any real replacement that provides the production Rak does. Again, who is providing these double digit sacks for less than 10M a year?

(If I hear R.Jax, my head may explode).

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

Rjax

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[SIZE="7"]KA-BOOM[/SIZE]


Stand back from the splatter zone.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1061491]Generallly, I agree with your statements.

The bolded statement is something I have seen in various forms from the "Let Rak walk" crowd. Who are these double digit pass rushers that also play OLB? As far as I can tell, the only other ones [I]currently in the conversation[/I] are possibly Ware if he gets cut or Worilds. As to each, at this stage of the game - even if he gets released - Rak>Ware (age, injury, production) and Worilds got transition tagged at 10M. In his four years, Worilds was okay but in his contract year he gets 8 sacks. Wohooo.

I just don't see any real replacement that provides the production Rak does. Again, who is providing these double digit sacks for less than 10M a year?

(If I hear R.Jax, my head may explode).[/quote]

I think Orakpo's big problem is outside of sacks I really don't think he's a very good player. I wouldn't count him in the top 10 OLB's in the league and if you're building a team for the long haul I'd rather lose in the short term and plug my holes/use my cap space for solutions that I'd consider optimal. We're talking about a mammoth contract to get him signed for term and he's not a player I'd offer a franchise type deal for. You only get a limited number of those for each team, and imo he's not worth it.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

Well, we will have to agree to disagree. If you want to say he is not "elite", fine. No argument. To say "outside of sacks, I really don't think he's a very good player", well, that's a huge leap. I would suggest that it is also unjustified.

From a purely objective standpoint, he may not be worth 12M a year, but he is certainly a 8-9M/year player. Since coming in the league, he has consistently improved his game "outside of sacks" and is well thought of by his teammates who, if you go back and look at their comments, definitely considered him a top 10 OLB. Rak starts on every team that doesn't have a OLB named Ware, Suggs or Mathews. Is he top 5, no. Top 10, yup.

As someone else said, in three years are highest paid players are T. Williams, RGIII and Rak, we are doing something right.

Side note, from a Keim report:
"Finally, KC Joyner included a stat on linebacker Brian Orakpo: 'Orakpo posted a 2.3 percent mark in the disrupted dropback percentage metric that tracks how often a defender tallies a sack, interception, pass defensed or batted ball. That total ranked sixth among all linebackers last year and illustrates the kind of impact Orakpo can have.' "
[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/5782/offseason-blueprint-redskins]Offseason Blueprint: Washington Redskins - ESPN[/url]

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1061533]Well, we will have to agree to disagree. If you want to say he is not "elite", fine. No argument. To say "outside of sacks, I really don't think he's a very good player", well, that's a huge leap. I would suggest that it is also unjustified.

From a purely objective standpoint, he may not be worth 12M a year, but he is certainly a 8-9M/year player. Since coming in the league, he has consistently improved his game "outside of sacks" and is well thought of by his teammates who, if you go back and look at their comments, definitely considered him a top 10 OLB. [B]Rak starts on every team that doesn't have a OLB named Ware, Suggs or Mathews. Is he top 5, no. Top 10, yup.[/B]

As someone else said, in three years are highest paid players are T. Williams, RGIII and Rak, we are doing something right.

Side note, from a Keim report:
"Finally, KC Joyner included a stat on linebacker Brian Orakpo: 'Orakpo posted a 2.3 percent mark in the disrupted dropback percentage metric that tracks how often a defender tallies a sack, interception, pass defensed or batted ball. That total ranked sixth among all linebackers last year and illustrates the kind of impact Orakpo can have.' "
[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/5782/offseason-blueprint-redskins]Offseason Blueprint: Washington Redskins - ESPN[/url][/quote]

Wouldnt that mean he is #4 then if he doesnt start over only 3 guys? Therefore a top 5 guy.

Also, I think to many of you are still wrapped up in the whole cap being 120 mil or less. It is over 130 mil now and will be around 150 mil in 3 to 4 years. His value of 8-9 mil will go up as the cap does. I would agree that 11 mil is to much for him with 120 mil cap or less, but with where the cap is headed, he is worth 11 mil imo.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1061533]Well, we will have to agree to disagree. If you want to say he is not "elite", fine. No argument. To say "outside of sacks, I really don't think he's a very good player", well, that's a huge leap. I would suggest that it is also unjustified.

From a purely objective standpoint, he may not be worth 12M a year, but he is certainly a 8-9M/year player. Since coming in the league, he has consistently improved his game "outside of sacks" and is well thought of by his teammates who, if you go back and look at their comments, definitely considered him a top 10 OLB. Rak starts on every team that doesn't have a OLB named Ware, Suggs or Mathews. Is he top 5, no. Top 10, yup.

As someone else said, in three years are highest paid players are T. Williams, RGIII and Rak, we are doing something right.

Side note, from a Keim report:
"Finally, KC Joyner included a stat on linebacker Brian Orakpo: 'Orakpo posted a 2.3 percent mark in the disrupted dropback percentage metric that tracks how often a defender tallies a sack, interception, pass defensed or batted ball. That total ranked sixth among all linebackers last year and illustrates the kind of impact Orakpo can have.' "
[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/5782/offseason-blueprint-redskins]Offseason Blueprint: Washington Redskins - ESPN[/url][/quote]

Well we went 10-6 w o him and 3-13 with him. Also as many have pointed out he was invisible the first part of the year when we still had a chance. He made a classic "contract push" when games were meaningless. Also, saying someone is a starting player at OLB puts him into the top 64 at their position plus there's over 100 starting LB's in the league. I'd personally rather upgrade the other LB positions and then find someone who may be an adequate downgrade for Rak. I don't think Orakpo is a true game changer at LB. A solid cog? Sure. Worth top 5 or 10 money at his position? No.

I honestly think that's why they franchised him. So they can keep him in the fold with an eye towards letting him walk in a year if he doesn't really turn a corner. If that's the case, like I said, I hope they go after OL and more help in the front seven with the remaining cap.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

Or instead of looking at the last 8 games as a contract push, look at the first 8 as reacclimating himself to the game he was away from for a year.

Don't try to compare the redskins 2012 record to 2013 and put that on Orakpo as the reason we won 10 or lost 13. It doesn't make any sense. There are way to many factors that have nothing to do with Rak. I would argue if he was healthy all of 2012 we would have won a couple more games.

The guys back.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;1061549]Or instead of looking at the last 8 games as a contract push, look at the first 8 as reacclimating himself to the game he was away from for a year.

Don't try to compare the redskins 2012 record to 2013 and put that on Orakpo as the reason we won 10 or lost 13. It doesn't make any sense. There are way to many factors that have nothing to do with Rak. I would argue if he was healthy all of 2012 we would have won a couple more games.

The guys back.[/quote]

Definitely agree.

He's always played with a high motor, I don't buy the "he was just playing hard for a contract" BS.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

How could you honestly? The guy plays a pretty consistent game. He has improved each year. And I totally agree that he always plays with a high motor.

Rak just needs help as does Kerrigan. We got absolutely zero push from the middle of our d-line last year. We need to beef that shit up. I hope we do. However we have to improve our secondary as well as our o-line. If there was ever a time in which we had to hit in the draft, and free agency on almost every move this is it. I have become completely dis-interested in going after any of the skill positions on offense for now. The number one problem on offense is keeping Griff healthy. Not finding more targets for him. Reed, Garcon, and Almo are weaponry enough if we can sure up the D and the oline. Sorry somehow this rant got away from Rak, but suring up the middle and the secondary will go a long way twards him having a monster year.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

I have no problem with this move, and am certainly in favor of it. I'm no "cap gu-ru"; but we're still twenty million under the cap AFTER franchising Orkapo. I think thats still plenty of money for next year; and I'm not sure of any big time free agents, outside of maybe Byrd that we would be targeting.

I still hope we lock up Orkapo long term, but since this is a one year thing at this point, we don't have to worry about his contract for now taking up the money it will cost to resign Trent, Rg3, Morris in the next year or two. Specifically Trent.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1061533]Rak starts on every team that doesn't have a OLB named Ware, Suggs or Mathews. Is he top 5, no. Top 10, yup.
[/quote]

Aldon Smith. Tamba Hali. Von Miller. Robert Mathis. Justin Houston.


You forgot a few.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

the biggest names that could help would be byrd or mack at 10mill/year each (or around there). and talib (which might be a bit more)

there are cheaper safeties (at least 3 others) that'd give us most of what byrd would at a much cheaper contract. and there's really no one at mlb (D'Q, and he's an upgrade, but not amazing). we can get a 2nd tier WR like britt and be fine, since they'll be replacing morgan, who wasn't setting the world on fire.

best bet at #34 right now would be OG or MLB i'd gather, though you really just have to wait and see how that pans out and not handcuff yourself to one guy or one position.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;1061549][B]Or instead of looking at the last 8 games as a contract push[/B], look at the first 8 as reacclimating himself to the game he was away from for a year. [/quote]



The problem with this is that those sacks in the back half of the season came at the expense of backup tackles.

I for one am happy he'll be around one more year, but I hope they don't overpay him on a long term deal. I like a few other think that we should have probably let him explore free agency. I'm all for keeping our home grown talent......if the pay is accordingly. If not, I would do like the Patriots, Steelers do and let them walk. Smart organizations pay their elite talent and let the others walk instead of overpaying.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1061564]The problem with this is that those sacks in the back half of the season came at the expense of backup tackles.

I for one am happy he'll be around one more year, but I hope they don't overpay him on a long term deal. I like a few other think that we should have probably let him explore free agency. I'm all for keeping our home grown talent......if the pay is accordingly. If not, I would do like the Patriots, Steelers do and let them walk. [B]Smart organizations pay their elite talent and let the others walk instead of overpaying.[/B][/quote]

I think smart organizations actually find elite talent... which is something Washington has failed at.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=donofriose;1061565]I think smart organizations actually find elite talent... which is something Washington has failed at.[/quote]


No argument there.....lol

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1061425]Who knows. I'm all for keeping Rak, but I'm not going to get all excited about keeping a pretty good player on an average team just so we can say "we keep our own"[/quote]I agree that this Redskins team keeping Brian Orakpo doesn't exactly move the meter nationally, but in a world where the Redskins wish to be something that isn't average, locking up guys like Orakpo (and Rogers/Landry/Clark/Pierce/etc) needs to become routine business. Not last second indecision.

It's not so much that a 3-13 team needs to keep all of its defensive players from a below average unit. They really don't need to do anything. But if they're not serious about getting it right (and they might just let Orakpo hit the market at this time next season anyway), why would it be any different with Griffin in two years?

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1061561]Aldon Smith. Tamba Hali. Von Miller. Robert Mathis. Justin Houston.


You forgot a few.[/quote]

Like I said, top 10 not top 5.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1061564]The problem with this is that those sacks in the back half of the season came at the expense of backup tackles.

I for one am happy he'll be around one more year, but I hope they don't overpay him on a long term deal. I like a few other think that we should have probably let him explore free agency. I'm all for keeping our home grown talent......if the pay is accordingly. If not, I would do like the Patriots, Steelers do and let them walk. Smart organizations pay their elite talent and let the others walk instead of overpaying.[/quote]

I agree about his long term contract. The point of my post is there are a bunch of reasons for the way a player plays.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1061572]But if they're not serious about getting it right (and they might just let Orakpo hit the market at this time next season anyway), [B]why would it be any different with Griffin in two years[/B][B]?[/B][/quote]

Because Dan Snyder would not let that happen.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

Glad we were able to franchise tag Orakpo......hopefully they'll get a deal done for the long term.....

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=Monkeydad;1061420]Switch to decaf or something...

Sure Haslett has input on who he'd like to sign but he's not the one calling the shots on contracts.[/quote]

Can you imagine what NC Skins is like on gameday? :cussing::hitfan:

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1061750]Can you imagine what NC Skins is like on gameday? :cussing::hitfan:[/quote]

I can. Once when the Giants came back to score three TD's aginst us in the 4th quarter to beat us by one point, my wife stopped me just as I was about to throw our TV out of our third floor apartment window! I had the window open and was holding the TV over my head when she stopped me. I've also been known to break furniture during Redskins games, on occaision.

But that was years ago. I'm able to control my temper better now, except for occasional outbursts of vehement cursing.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1061754]I can. Once when the Giants came back to score three TD's aginst us in the 4th quarter to beat us by one point, my wife stopped me just as I was about to throw our TV out of our third floor apartment window! I had the window open and was holding the TV over my head when she stopped me. I've also been known to break furniture during Redskins games, on occaision.

But that was years ago. I'm able to control my temper better now, [B]except for occasional outbursts of vehement cursing[/B].[/quote]

And oh my God is that cathartic.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1061561]Aldon Smith. Tamba Hali. Von Miller. Robert Mathis. Justin Houston.


You forgot a few.[/quote]

Why are we acting like NFL teams don't want bookend pass rushers. Even a team that has only one elite pass rusher would find room for Rak.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1061599]Because Dan Snyder would not let that happen.[/quote]Well...he could be easily convinced. Like he is every single time an important decision gets made.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

[quote=mooby;1061976]Why are we acting like NFL teams don't want bookend pass rushers. Even a team that has only one elite pass rusher would find room for Rak.[/quote]

Not drinking enough Milk I suppose.

Re: Redskins place franchise tag on Orakpo
 

Here's what former Indianapolis GM, Bill Polian, had to say when ranking Orakpo outside the top 10 available FA's:

"Orakpo has excellent size with good first-step quickness and good rush instincts. He is a power rusher more than a speed rusher. He is decent at the point of attack. All in all, [B]a solid starting 3-4 OLB[/B]."

Pretty much sums it up for me. You decide how important it is to keep him and what contract he's worth. I for one feel like he's gonna get way more than he should, but that's the beauty of FA deals for these guys in general, which is why drafting is so important.

[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/5921/polian-grades-redskins-free-agents?ex_cid=espnapi_public]Polian grades Redskins free agents - Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN[/url]