Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1072362]The kicker would have been there to sign as an UFA. I know everyone here was high on Skov and I think that would have been the perfect pick for for us as a 7th rounder. It certainly fits a need. That was really my only issue. Never draft a kicker. However they seem comfortable at ILB after minicamp when no one has pads on. SMH...[/quote]

I definitely had Skov on my mind starting with Round 6. I thought that Skov would have had a chance to make the team. I find it hard to count out a player with his production and intagibles. His super-slow forty time really hurt him. I wish him good luck with the 49'ers.

I thought they'd be more likely to draft a punter than a kicker. I was hoping that the Skins would draft Pat O'Donnell in the 7th but he went to Chicago in the 6th.

As the draft was in progress, I was thinking Skov in the 6th and O'Donnell in the 7th.

On the other hand, I can't go along with your dismissing some of the veteran ILB's because they haven't done any hitting since they've been with the Skins. These guys are pros who have already played in the NFL. The Skins know how they play with the pads on.

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1072363]I definitely had Skov on my mind starting with Round 6. I thought that Skov would have had a chance to make the team. I find it hard to count out a player with his production and intagibles. His super-slow forty time really hurt him. I wish him good luck with the 49'ers.

I thought they'd be more likely to draft a punter than a kicker. I was hoping that the Skins would draft Pat O'Donnell in the 7th but he went to Chicago in the 6th.

As the draft was in progress, I was thinking Skov in the 6th and O'Donnell in the 7th.

On the other hand, I can't go along with your dismissing some of the veteran ILB's because they haven't done any hitting since they've been with the Skins. These guys are pros who have already played in the NFL. The Skins know how they play with the pads on.[/quote]

I'm not dismissing them, I just heard Gruden say he was happy with the group after mini camp. I just didn't get that comment cause they're not in pads. I would've added another young guy in the draft and put him in the mix. I've never really been all that I impressed w/ Riley and Robinson hasn't played much.

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

Was a 7th rd LB really going to come in and have an impact or push for a starting job? Really doubt it.

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1072356]Breeland:“I want to improve my tackling technique and coverage, and I want to be a real coachable guy for my coaches. In any situation, I would want them to want to call my number or call my name.”

I love this pick already.[/quote]

He might be my favorite pick of the draft. With him we now have good size at the corner position along with Amerson. If both of these young guys can develop into starters we might have some good corners for the next X amount of years.

After that I really like the entire draft process. Not many "wow" picks, however everyone is gushing over Moses in the third, I believe it was more of a "filling needs" draft. Not only selecting players that are capable back ups and fill-ins but also players who can contribute on special teams (which we definitely needed.)

I really only see a couple starters from this draft, Long and Moses, this year. But the potential for future starters is high, and until then we at least helped out our special teams.

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

[quote=Mattyk;1072381]Was a 7th rd LB really going to come in and have an impact or push for a starting job? Really doubt it.[/quote]

Maybe not this year. But in the 2nd and 3rd years? Absolutely. I think ILB is a weakness and was one of the reasons the defense stunk.

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1072393]Maybe not this year. But in the 2nd and 3rd years? Absolutely. I think ILB is a weakness and was one of the reasons the defense stunk.[/quote]

I agree we rolling the dice with Robinson but the free agent ILBs were picked to hedge the bet.

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

I take a show me approach, especially when we trade down from our first pick. When we traded out of the first round with Atlanta in 2008, we got two 2008 second round picks (#34-Devin Thomas) (#48-Fred Davis), 2008 fourth round pick (#103-William Hayes), while Atlanto got our first round pick (#21-Sam Baker), 2008 third round pick (#84-Harry Douglas), 2008 fifth round pick (#154-Kroy Biermann). Atlanta came away with a starting OT and a solid #3 receiver - they won that trade.

I feel that Shanahan did especially poorly trading out of the #10 pick in 2011 for the #16 (Kerrigan) and #49 (which was traded down further to net Hankerson, Gomes, and M. Hurt. Getting more bodies can be good, and Kerrigan is a very good player, but we could have had either J.J. Watt or Robert Quinn at #10, both of whom are elite defenders now. Too often when teams get cute and trade down in the first round, they miss on elite talent. Regarding Watt and Quinn, read this and weep: [url]http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/pro-football-focus-reveals-a-surprise-no--1-rated-player-for-2013--i-e---not-peyton-manning-175558487.html[/url]

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

[quote=SouperMeister;1072439]I take a show me approach, especially when we trade down from our first pick. When we traded out of the first round with Atlanta in 2008, we got two 2008 second round picks (#34-Devin Thomas) (#48-Fred Davis), 2008 fourth round pick (#103-William Hayes), while Atlanto got our first round pick (#21-Sam Baker), 2008 third round pick (#84-Harry Douglas), 2008 fifth round pick (#154-Kroy Biermann). Atlanta came away with a starting OT and a solid #3 receiver - they won that trade.

I feel that Shanahan did especially poorly trading out of the #10 pick in 2011 for the #16 (Kerrigan) and #49 (which was traded down further to net Hankerson, Gomes, and M. Hurt. Getting more bodies can be good, and Kerrigan is a very good player, but we could have had either J.J. Watt or Robert Quinn at #10, both of whom are elite defenders now. Too often when teams get cute and trade down in the first round, they miss on elite talent. Regarding Watt and Quinn, read this and weep: [url]http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/pro-football-focus-reveals-a-surprise-no--1-rated-player-for-2013--i-e---not-peyton-manning-175558487.html[/url][/quote]

Yeah, Kerrigan is a solid player but not on their level. Hindsight is 20/20.

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

Redskins cut Tommy Rees

Sign:

S Ross Madison 6-1 200 4.53 Toledo

DB Courtney Bridgett 6-3 176 4.55 [B]6 BP[/B]
CB Blake Sailors Georgia 28 tackles in 4 seasons
DT Frank Kearse Alabama A+T 6-4 315 5.3

if these are the best of the unsigned players it was a weak group

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

Making a call right now.

If Orakpo gets hurt this year. He will NEVER win his job back from Murphy. The guy is going to be great. I don't make predictions very often, but this is one I will make.

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

[quote=Bucket;1072447]Making a call right now.

If Orakpo gets hurt this year. He will NEVER win his job back from Murphy. The guy is going to be great. I don't make predictions very often, but this is one I will make.[/quote]

reportedly Murphy played well in mini-camp

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1072393]Maybe not this year. But in the 2nd and 3rd years? Absolutely. I think ILB is a weakness and was one of the reasons the defense stunk.[/quote]

A 7th round pick? Really?

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

Off topic but I really liked Cleveland's draft, they will surprise some folks next season

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1072453]Off topic but I really liked Cleveland's draft, they will surprise some folks next season[/quote]

I thought Arizona did a nice job as well...for the second year in a row.

San Diego had a good draft too.

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

I've been checking different sources for our draft grades. I'm not an ESPN insider, so I wasn't able to see that one. On the three I could see, there was a B, C+, and a D. You can name them if you like, but no one is an expert at seeing the future. On Thewarpath.net, you've probably got as good, or better assessment as anywhere else. With the new coaching staff, there is no way to predict how our newbies are going to stack up. The puzzle for me is I couldn't tell you anything about any draft picks or udfas beforehand. I only know what is written about them, and of course news from camps. I only follow 2 college fb teams, and that limits my exposure to potential pro players and I have a limited number of brain cells to spare.

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

the more I hear and think about the draft, the higher grade I want to give it. I remember the old days when the 'skins would always had bodies stashed away on IR for a year or two to let them develop.

I know this is a real-time, always connected world, but I still think the bets way to build a winner is to address glaring needs in FA & build depth/up-and-comers through the draft.

I think that's exactly what we're witnessing.

'Skins are off to a good start toward that long term winner that we've all been waiting for.

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1072393]Maybe not this year. But in the 2nd and 3rd years? Absolutely. I think ILB is a weakness and was one of the reasons the defense stunk.[/quote]

LOL.

No. Not unless that 7th rounder is a 1st round talent who's dropped due to off-field or health concerns.

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1072468]LOL.

No. Not unless that 7th rounder is a 1st round talent who's dropped due to off-field or health concerns.[/quote]

Shayne Skov had a knee injury in 2011 that limited his effectiveness in the last two seasons, for sure in 2012. At Sanford's pro day, an injured hamstring contributed to his poor 40 yard time. To say that Skov could come here and compete for a starting job a few years down the road isn't ridiculous at all. To write him off as merely a "7th rounder" or a "7th round pick", as if that's all he would have been and as if he's immediately a scrub just because no one drafted him, [I]is[/I] ridiculous. Now, I'm not saying that NFL scouts don't know as much as I do, but I am saying that injuries played a big role in his fall.

I don't know if you've watched the guy play or not, and I hope none of the following applies to you, but his game is not represented well by a 40 yard dash in shorts, the same as any other prospect. Workouts at pro days and the Combine just add a little bit to the puzzle that is the draft; in no way should they be taken as seriously as some fans take them. Watch him play, then check out his workout numbers. If anybody thinks a poor workout negates anything a player does on the field, they have an incorrect way of looking at it.

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

Solid B draft. Could be an A draft depending on the potential and expectations they meet or exceed.

They picked up 2 players that they already seem to like in Murphy and Spencer Long. And they should contribute one way or another in year one. They are hopeful in 2 players that could develop into major starters/contributors - Moses and Seastrunk. Ryan Grant was already described by Gruden as looking like a 10 year vet in certain aspects of his route running in rookie minicamp. Corner Breeland has the physical tools and attitude to be competitive and at the very least will contribute on special teams. Even the kicker in the 7th round will be given every opportunity to challenge Kai Forbaith for his spot.

And some of the UDFAs may make the roster and also contribute. I'm especially interested with the NTs/DTs and DBs.

So this draft will not be a bust by any means. This seemed to be a blue collar draft that picked up several role players that will contribute with the potential to be impact players. This is the draft that the Redskins have needed for awhile.

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

... a lot of these draft picks and UDFAs will replace several underperformers and players who were just completely overwhelmed on the NFL level last season. And just a thought - Orakpo, you can learn a lot from Trent Murphy on "proving" yourself and not being complacent.

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

[quote=warriorzpath;1072534]... a lot of these draft picks and UDFAs will replace several underperformers and players who were just completely overwhelmed on the NFL level last season. And just a thought - Orakpo, you can learn a lot from Trent Murphy on "proving" yourself and not being complacent.[/quote]

Rak hasn't proved himself?

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

look at me sitting here as only a 9 sack a year guy........boy is my face red

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

[quote=Mattyk;1072564]Rak hasn't proved himself?[/quote]

Yet on the same token Kirk cousins has proven he is an NFL caliber starter. lol !!!!!!!

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1072568]Yet on the same token Kirk cousins has proven he is an NFL caliber starter. lol !!!!!!![/quote]

Enough crazy train for one stop please

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

[quote=Mattyk;1072564]Rak hasn't proved himself?[/quote]

It's not really a judgement call to debate. It's more about his attitude when he said it (not having to prove anything). A true competitor is always driven by "proving" themselves to try to be the best. Orakpo is good, but he always had the potential to be much greater.

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

[quote=warriorzpath;1072573]It's not really a judgement call to debate. It's more about his attitude when he said it (not having to prove anything). A true competitor is always driven by "proving" themselves to try to be the best. Orakpo is good, but he always had the potential to be much greater.[/quote]

I think you're twisting his words a bit.

And anytime contracts are involved, players can be a bit testy.

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

[quote=Mattyk;1072575]I think you're twisting his words a bit.

And anytime contracts are involved, players can be a bit testy.[/quote]

Actually, he does have something to prove- that he's worth a hefty long-term contract. If he doesn't, then he may just get tagged again.

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

[quote=warriorzpath;1072586]Actually, he does have something to prove- that he's worth a hefty long-term contract. If he doesn't, then he may just get tagged again.[/quote]

No, Rak is right. He really has nothing left to prove. He's primarily a pass rusher, and he's rushed the passer at an elite level 4 out of 5 years, the one exception being a year where he was injured for 14 games. The total sack numbers aren't elite, but that's because OLBs in our system haven't rushed as much in recent years as most other teams' do. Orakpo's sack percentage numbers are right among the elite in the league, better than Terrell Suggs, Jared Allen, and Mario Williams, and the same as Clay Matthews.

He'll be 28 next year, so we can expect a few more years of elite pass rushing from him. If the choice was up to me, I'd try for a 5 year deal with little guaranteed money in the final year, something in the range of 60-65 million total. Who knows what the FA market will look like next year, so those numbers could be way off.

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

[quote=SirLK26;1072619]No, Rak is right. He really has nothing left to prove. He's primarily a pass rusher, and he's rushed the passer at an elite level 4 out of 5 years, the one exception being a year where he was injured for 14 games. The total sack numbers aren't elite, but that's because OLBs in our system haven't rushed as much in recent years as most other teams' do. Orakpo's sack percentage numbers are right among the elite in the league, better than Terrell Suggs, Jared Allen, and Mario Williams, and the same as Clay Matthews.

He'll be 28 next year, so we can expect a few more years of elite pass rushing from him. If the choice was up to me, I'd try for a 5 year deal with little guaranteed money in the final year, something in the range of 60-65 million total. Who knows what the FA market will look like next year, so those numbers could be way off.[/quote]

It's hard to argue when it's all about opinions, but since there are still circumstances around his lack of elite pass rush numbers- it still says he has something to prove whether or not he's in an ideal situation.

But whether he likes it or not, he'll probably have something to prove to the Redskins that he's worth the contract he wants. If not - I say tag him and ride him out until he proves it.

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

... To me, if Orakpo wants to be defiant about it, then punish him for it.

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

[quote=warriorzpath;1072623]... To me, if Orakpo wants to be defiant about it, then punish him for it.[/quote]

Then would Orakpo be justified in punishing the Redskins' FO for being "defiant?" As in, holding out?

Sure, I suppose it's mostly opinions right now, but there are facts involved as well. And if he does put up elite sack totals this season like those numbers indicate, I'd wager he'll be rewarded handsomely. At least I'd hope so.

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

[quote=SirLK26;1072627]Then would Orakpo be justified in punishing the Redskins' FO for being "defiant?" As in, holding out?

Sure, I suppose it's mostly opinions right now, but there are facts involved as well. And if he does put up elite sack totals this season like those numbers indicate, I'd wager he'll be rewarded.[/quote]

Holding out hurts Orakpo the most with perception and risking what leverage he has left. It gives the opportunity for someone else to step up- namely Trent Murphy. All the leverage already belongs to the Redskins right now.

Hey, if he puts up big sack numbers it's a win for everyone and thus he'll have proven that he deserves a big contract.

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

[quote=warriorzpath;1072623]... To me, if Orakpo wants to be defiant about it, then punish him for it.[/quote]


That's when you start driving outside the lines. either you sign a player or you cut him. Else you create distractions and lose the team (i.e.Shanny).

Punish??? let the market punish him, you stick to business Bruce.

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

[quote=warriorzpath;1072628]Holding out hurts Orakpo the most with perception and risking what leverage he has left. It gives the opportunity for someone else to step up- namely Trent Murphy. All the leverage already belongs to the Redskins right now.

Hey, if he puts big sack numbers it's a win for everyone and this he'll have proven that he deserves a big contract.[/quote]

Right. Surely Orakpo knows better than to hold out. I was just sayin'...

So what kind of sack numbers does he have to put up to have your blessing on a hefty long term contract? 20? 15? 13?

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

[quote=SirLK26;1072631]Right. Surely Orakpo knows better than to hold out. I was just sayin'...

So what kind of sack numbers does he have to put up to have your blessing on a hefty long term contract? 20? 15? 13?[/quote]

I say 20... No I'm just joking. I don't know?! I don't think there's a magic number ... Unless, they write up a contract that says there is.

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

If he's given similar rush opportunities per game as other premier pass rushers, no reason he can't be around a sack a game. If he does that, he will have earned his big $$ deal IMO.

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1072630]That's when you start driving outside the lines. either you sign a player or you cut him. Else you create distractions and lose the team (i.e.Shanny).

Punish??? let the market punish him, you stick to business Bruce.[/quote]

Look that's why there's a Trent Murphy on the team. To place the priority on the proper things like hard work, commitment, and on the field.

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

[quote=warriorzpath;1072634]Look that's why there's a Trent Murphy on the team. To place the priority on the proper things like hard work, commitment, and on the field.[/quote]

Trent (Murphy not silverspliff) might look good for those that like muscles but I'm on the fence with Murphy he needs to have speed. Offenses have big but slow tackles. He has no body fat but also no speed. Rak is a rare breed, big, strong, and fast.

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1072635]Trent (Murphy not silverspliff) might look good for those that like muscles but I'm on the fence with Murphy he needs to have speed. Offenses have big but slow tackles. He has no body fat but also no speed. Rak is a rare breed, big, strong, and fast.[/quote]

I think you have to somehow gain a little more football knowledge. I don't think I'm able to have a good discussion with you right now... I think I'll leave it at that.

Re: Reaction to Draft: exceeds, meets, or meh
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1072635]Trent (Murphy not silverspliff) might look good for those that like muscles but I'm on the fence with Murphy he needs to have speed. Offenses have big but slow tackles. He has no body fat but also no speed. Rak is a rare breed, big, strong, and fast.[/quote]

See my sig. It's not all about speed.

Edit: Even so, I wouldn't say Murphy's slow by any stretch of the imagination. His first step may not be the most explosive, but he is fairly quick out of his stance and, with his long legs, has sufficient top-end speed. He's also a smooth athlete. Not an athletic specimen like Rak, but again, certainly not slow or clumsy in any way.