Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]CooleyAsCanBe:

Go dig out your video tapes from last year's games.

Now, check out Dallas II. Who is the guy playing safety in a deep cover-2 in the final minute whose job it is not to let anyone behind him? HInt: He wears #36. He gets lured into watching the backfield and doesn't get to double the WR deep when Springs thinks he has deep help. Result: Winning TD. This is with less than a minute to play and the Cowboys in their own territory and out of timeouts and needing a TD. Hard to blame anyone else for that one.


Now go and check out Eagles night game. Taylor's man catches a pass at the 1 yard line for a first down - sorry I don't recall if was the TE or Westbrook. Next play is a handoff to Dorsey Levens who gets hit at the line of scrimmage by some guy wearing #36. But #36 forgets to wrap up and Levens manages to survive that "beastly hit" and score a TD. That was the difference in the game. Clean hit by #36 with lots of ferocity, but the result was "TD - Not Washington Redskins" - apologies to Frank Herzog for that one.


That is just from memory so when you do your film review from 2004, maybe you can show me where he singlehandedly won a game for the Skins. I must have been napping when that happened...[/QUOTE]

Dude was a rookie. I know you think we should have All-Pros at every position and [I]one or two[/I] bad plays is enough to stone a guy to death Taliban-style, but ease up on the guy. He had less than 10 games experience in the NFL, was 21, and made lots of plays for us.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

[quote=SC]Now, check out Dallas II. Who is the guy playing safety in a deep cover-2 in the final minute whose job it is not to let anyone behind him? HInt: He wears #36. He gets lured into watching the backfield and doesn't get to double the WR deep when Springs thinks he has deep help. Result: Winning TD. This is with less than a minute to play and the Cowboys in their own territory and out of timeouts and needing a TD. Hard to blame anyone else for that one.[/quote]

Now, go check out the other 59minutes of that game and tell me that's not why we lost instead :P one bad play can cost you the game, but only in concert with many other bad plays.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

I don't have a problem with ST's abilities, but I think everyone can agree that he needs to improve in certain areas, regardless of whether he's behind, ahead of, or right at the curve for the development of a rookie/2nd year player. That's the point though, he does need to improve and he does need to get on the same page as the rest of the D, and these workouts are, at least in part, designed for that. I'm sorry, but until he wins NFL Defensive player of the year honors, he needs to be at the workouts and camps working on his game because he's obviously not without fault yet.
I just think things like this are very telling with respect to a guy's character and what you can expect from him. They're also often a result of the program and college that they came from.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

Any chance we could trade Moss? LOL

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

I really do think he could pan out. I'm not counting him out already, I just think it's a very unclassy move on his part to not come to workouts.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

[QUOTE=PSUSkinsFan21]This just pisses me off to no end. I just don't get this "the world owes me something" attitude. This shows tremedously poor character for both of them as far as I'm concerned. What great team leaders they are!
Neither one of them have an excuse for not being there. Period.




i agree with you 100%

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

If I'm not mistaken, Taylor is working out with the rest of the Miami players in Florida. Again, I WOULD prefer him to be with the team, but I think it's a Miami tradition (even though Portis is with the team).

Moss really has no excuse.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

Uh - guess who else went to Miami, Malcolm. Yep - you got i!

That being said the QB-WR connection is much more important.

Sean Taylor has a ways to go, but I wouldn't trade him for Ed Reed man for man right now. I think he is an overall better player, and will soon eclipse Reed. That's just my opinion.

SC - With the #5 pick last year - what would you have done with it? Gone Winslow, trade down, Taylor? What? I'm just curious.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]With the #5 pick last year - what would you have done with it? Gone Winslow, trade down, Taylor? What? I'm just curious.[/QUOTE]

I would have traded it for freddie mitchell... THE PEOPLE'S CHAMP, ALL THE WAY!

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

The Sean Taylor Fan Club can slurp him all they want. Here is a fact.

No matter what else happened in the first 59 minutes of Dallas II last year, the Skins led with less than a minute to go. The Cowboys had the ball in their end of the field and a field goal was of no value to them. ONLY a TD would provide a Cowboys' win. The defense called was a cover-2 where the safety responsibility is to double anyone going deep and NEVER let anyone get behind them.

Sean "The Beast" Taylor got suckered in by Vinnie Testaverde - never to be confused with John Elway, Dan Marino, John Unitas or Joe Montana as one of the greatest of QBs ever to play the game - and Sean Taylor blew the assignment that gave up that TD. And at that time, the Skins had no time on the clock to recover from that blunder. Read that last sentence carefully, the correct description is "blunder".

Could the Skins have been ahead by 3 TDs at that point? Possibly. You can imagine whatever you want to imagine. Imagination is a wonderful thing because it allows you to think whatever you really want to think about any topic. ON the other hand, realilty bites. Because the reality is that the Redskins led in the final minute and ST "took it in the shorts" from Vinny Testaverde. Justify and rationalize all you want but that is what happened.


Someone else said they thought Taylor wrapped up on most of his tackles last year. If you really think that is the case, you really ought to give up your drivers' license and get a guide dog. Most of the time Taylor went head-hunting and just launched himself at the ball carrier. In fact, in that Dallas II game he cost the Skins, his futile attempt to make a play after he was totally out of position managed to take out Shawn Springs. He coudln't even manage to hit the guy in the "other colored jersey".


Sean Taylor is a fine physical specimen with lots of athletic skills who will make highlight reel plays. The problem with highlight reels is that they don't show you the boneheaded mistakes that Skins' players make which cost the team yardage and field position - - and ganes! You have to look carefully at each play in each game and not let your predilictions to slurp this guy because of his physical attributes prevent you from seeing what is actually happening out there on the field.

He's a MEATHEAD. Deal with it. Hope that his "meathead-ness" does not cost the Skins more games than his physical skills can win for them. So far, he has some catching up to do.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

Daseal:

Assuming that I had done some real background checking on the players in the draft last year so that I had a good understanding of what kind of person and player I was drafting at #5, I probably would have taken Kellen Winslow Jr. - - even though I don't think that TE was nearly as important a need for the Skins with a high draft pick. I just think that Taylor is a guy who will never live up to the expectations people have for him based on his physical skills.

With 20/20 hindsight of course, I could pretend now to have been on the Ben Roethlisberger train from the beginning. But I wasn't. I thought Roethlisberger would take several years to turn into anyting useful in the NFL. He was really good right out of the gate - - and he and his team won a boatload of games.

There is probably only one GM in the NFL who would not trade Ed Reed for Sean Taylor even up and that is the one in Baltimore who already has Ed Reed.

I'll go even further; I would not trade Brian Dawkins for Sean Taylor even up if I were the Eagles GM. I guarantee that I would not trade Troy Polamalu (sp?) even up for Taylor now. No way the Cowboys trade Roy Williams for Taylor even up. And the only reason I would not trade Rodney Harrison for Taylor even up now as the GM for the Pats is that Taylor is so much younger than Harrison.

And just how is Taylor going to become an integral part of this defense if he is "working out" 1500 miles away from his teammates on the DL and at LB and in the DB? Is that the new defense that Gregg Williams is creating to be sure that no one can get behind Taylor late in the game? Lining him up 1500 miles from the line of scrimmage? BRILLIANT!!! - - as they say in the Guiness commercials...

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

If you're going to go with the argument that Sean Taylor lost the game by being on the team, then this is what I say:

I'm going to repeat this one more time.

Had Sean Taylor not been on the team, the fumble that prevented the Cowboys from scoring ANOTHER touchdown would have not happened. Would someone else have blown the coverage? That's debatable.

The fact is, it is unfair to blame one player for a loss. Even in our fantasy land that is most of our minds, a team wins the game and a team loses the game. Regardless of how many points are scored and how many points are given up it is a team effort.

I also happen to be the person who needs the guide dog because I feel that you aren't one of the top 3 defensive rookies in the league by making "hightlight" reel hits.

As far as him being a meathead, there is no doubt. I use that term in a different sense meaning that he just doesn't seem like the most intelligent guy in the world.

Football is his sport and that's where his knowledge is.

I don't go knocking my garbageman because he's not a rocket scientist, so I'm not going to knock Taylor for not "seeming" to be intelligent.

If people were to survive on physical skills alone, then Brock Lesnar would have made it far in the NFL. Hell, every person on "World's Strongest Man" would be able to play.

Taylor did not cost the team games. He was a very important cog in a methodical machine of a defense.

Would I rather him be here than not? You're damn right.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]Daseal:

Assuming that I had done some real background checking on the play

I'll go even further; I would not trade Brian Dawkins for Sean Taylor even up if I were the Eagles GM. I guarantee that I would not trade Troy Polamalu (sp?) even up for Taylor now. No way the Cowboys trade Roy Williams for Taylor even up. And the only reason I would not trade Rodney Harrison for Taylor even up now as the GM for the Pats is that Taylor is so much younger than Harrison.[/QUOTE]

Common; all those guys have been in the league for years, you cant compare them to one another. Would you trade Rothlesberger (arguably the best player to come out of last years draft) for Brady, Manning, McNabb, Cullpepper... proaboably not. You cant compare Taylor to all those guys because they have had time to develop. Taylor may never be as good as any of the safteys you mentioned, but the reason no one would make that trade is because Taylor has only been in the leauge one year and has so much to prove.

Just like you are saying Taylor is a meathead and always will be a meathed; is just as stupid as the people who are already putting him in the HOF. The kid was a freaking rookie last year; you cant pass judgments on how a player is going to be overall after their ROOKIE season. Hell, I would go as far to say you have to wait until at least their third season to really pass judgment. Did he make good plays last year, yes. Did he make stupid plays last year, yes. You cant point to one good or bad play and tell how a player is as a whole.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

Gmanc711:

Someone else here said they would not trade Reed for Taylor even up. I didn't say that. But since someone else bright it up, I thought I'd offer a different perspective on that idea. I agree that you can't compare Taylor to those other guys because they are the elite safties in the league now and Taylor is not. He might become one of them one of these days; but as of now he's not in their league.

Would I trade Roethlisberger for McNabb or Brady or Manning? Of course not. I never said that was even a remote possibliity. But if someone thinks it's a bad idea to trade Taylor for Reed even-up, they might also think one of those Roethlisberger trades is a good idea. I don't.

I agree that people CAN mature and grow up. The problem is that MOST people show signs of being in the process of doing that by the time they are 21 years old. Yes, there are some late-bloomers; I admit that. And you might want to think that just maybe there are some people who never reach a maturity level beyond a college-freshman who is rushing a frat on campus.

So tell me, what behavior has Sean Taylor exhibited since he was drafted by the Washington Redskins that leads you to believe that he is maturing and developing into a thoughtful and full human adult? Use Darrell Green as your example here. What has Taylor DONE to lead you to believe that sometime in the next 5 years he will evolve into someone who can play as well as Darrell Green on the field AND be as mature and solid a citizen as Darrell Green off the field. I can't wait to read your list of maturity indicators here.


Malcom:

If it isn't appropriate to blame someone for losing a game, then it is also never appropriate to credit an individual with a win. When Adam Viniteiri kicked field goals with virtually no time left to win Super Bowls, he did not win the game all by himself. But given the opportunity to win the game as opposed to losing it, he did something to make the Pats win the game.

John Elway is revered for his comebacks in the final two minutes of games. Remember "The Drive"? Did he do it himself? No. Could he have avoided the necessity to do it at all if he had scored more in the first 59 minutes of the game? Of course. But when it mattered, John Elway found a way to win games for his team instead of having them lose those same games.

There are hundreds of other examples I could use here, but I think you have the idea by now...

Now analyze what Sean Taylor did in Dallas II last year in this light. He had the chance to do something to assure a win; instead of doing what his assignment was, he got beat deep; that cost the Skins a win. When it came down to the end of the game and when it was make a play or go home with your head up your butt, his performance sent the Skins home with their heads up their butts.

Sure, it would never have come to that if Ramsey had thrown 9 TD passes and Portis had run for 400 yards and 5 rushing TDs earlier that day; but they didn't. Notwithstanding all those shortcomings by the offensive players that day, the Redskins were ahead with less than one minute to play and then - - what happened? Who "made the play" and who "took gas"?


For reasons that seem not to be important to the Sean Taylor Fan Club here, Joe Gibbs has made it clear that he really wants 100% participation in all the voluntary workouts this off-season. I guess that Joe Gibbs is doing that just to make himself a pain in the ass to the players because obviously it can't be all that important to ask these players to show up and work out in order to earn their salaries. He's doing that to annoy them, right?

So, with almost all of the physcially able players participating, the ones not participating stand out like a sore thumb. And can anyone here REALLY and TRULY be surprised that Sean Taylor is one of the no-shows? I have to admit that I am surprised that Santana Moss is also a no-show, but if I had to pick one starter from last year's team who would be absent, it would definitely have been Taylor - - from the time he ducked out of the NFL Rookie Seminar. I'm disappointed that he's not there but not the least bit surprised.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]

So tell me, what behavior has Sean Taylor exhibited since he was drafted by the Washington Redskins that leads you to believe that he is maturing and developing into a thoughtful and full human adult? Use Darrell Green as your example here. What has Taylor DONE to lead you to believe that sometime in the next 5 years he will evolve into someone who can play as well as Darrell Green on the field AND be as mature and solid a citizen as Darrell Green off the field. I can't wait to read your list of maturity indicators here.[/QUOTE]


You cant pass judgment on this guy, you dont even know him. For all I know, you could be 100% right. Maybe you know Sean Taylor on a bigger level than I do, but I have no clue how you can call him an immature kid who is not a thoughtful human adult; through what you read in the paper or on websites. I just dont get it. I cant put together a list of things for about Sean Taylors charecter, I do not know him. If you do know him on some sort of level, then I will take your word for it. The only thing you can say about him that says he is immature is that he got pulled over on a DUI Charge, which he was cleared of (I'm a realist, I know the rules are different for athletes). I read the other day that Sean Taylor donated a good chunk of money to his former school, maybe that makes him a model citezen. You're passing judgments about his personatlity; and I just dont know how you have come to all these conclusions.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

SC, points well taken about Taylor, but at least admit his strip of Jones earlier in the game SAVED us a TD, and put the Skins in a position to potentially hold on for the win. Jones had a wide open lane to the endzone until Taylor stuck his hand in and pulled the ball loose.

Did he blow the coverage? Yeah he did, but I don't think Taylor should take 100% of the blame. It was a well executed play, and they went after an aggressive rookie safety. Hats off the Cowboys in my opinion.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

you all them...that get them here....LOL

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]Gmanc711:

Someone else here said they would not trade Reed for Taylor even up. I didn't say that. But since someone else bright it up, I thought I'd offer a different perspective on that idea. I agree that you can't compare Taylor to those other guys because they are the elite safties in the league now and Taylor is not. He might become one of them one of these days; but as of now he's not in their league.

Would I trade Roethlisberger for McNabb or Brady or Manning? Of course not. I never said that was even a remote possibliity. But if someone thinks it's a bad idea to trade Taylor for Reed even-up, they might also think one of those Roethlisberger trades is a good idea. I don't.

I agree that people CAN mature and grow up. The problem is that MOST people show signs of being in the process of doing that by the time they are 21 years old. Yes, there are some late-bloomers; I admit that. And you might want to think that just maybe there are some people who never reach a maturity level beyond a college-freshman who is rushing a frat on campus.

So tell me, what behavior has Sean Taylor exhibited since he was drafted by the Washington Redskins that leads you to believe that he is maturing and developing into a thoughtful and full human adult? Use Darrell Green as your example here. What has Taylor DONE to lead you to believe that sometime in the next 5 years he will evolve into someone who can play as well as Darrell Green on the field AND be as mature and solid a citizen as Darrell Green off the field. I can't wait to read your list of maturity indicators here.


Malcom:

If it isn't appropriate to blame someone for losing a game, then it is also never appropriate to credit an individual with a win. When Adam Viniteiri kicked field goals with virtually no time left to win Super Bowls, he did not win the game all by himself. But given the opportunity to win the game as opposed to losing it, he did something to make the Pats win the game.

John Elway is revered for his comebacks in the final two minutes of games. Remember "The Drive"? Did he do it himself? No. Could he have avoided the necessity to do it at all if he had scored more in the first 59 minutes of the game? Of course. But when it mattered, John Elway found a way to win games for his team instead of having them lose those same games.

There are hundreds of other examples I could use here, but I think you have the idea by now...

Now analyze what Sean Taylor did in Dallas II last year in this light. He had the chance to do something to assure a win; instead of doing what his assignment was, he got beat deep; that cost the Skins a win. When it came down to the end of the game and when it was make a play or go home with your head up your butt, his performance sent the Skins home with their heads up their butts.

Sure, it would never have come to that if Ramsey had thrown 9 TD passes and Portis had run for 400 yards and 5 rushing TDs earlier that day; but they didn't. Notwithstanding all those shortcomings by the offensive players that day, the Redskins were ahead with less than one minute to play and then - - what happened? Who "made the play" and who "took gas"?


For reasons that seem not to be important to the Sean Taylor Fan Club here, Joe Gibbs has made it clear that he really wants 100% participation in all the voluntary workouts this off-season. I guess that Joe Gibbs is doing that just to make himself a pain in the ass to the players because obviously it can't be all that important to ask these players to show up and work out in order to earn their salaries. He's doing that to annoy them, right?

So, with almost all of the physcially able players participating, the ones not participating stand out like a sore thumb. And can anyone here REALLY and TRULY be surprised that Sean Taylor is one of the no-shows? I have to admit that I am surprised that Santana Moss is also a no-show, but if I had to pick one starter from last year's team who would be absent, it would definitely have been Taylor - - from the time he ducked out of the NFL Rookie Seminar. I'm disappointed that he's not there but not the least bit surprised.[/QUOTE]

Let me just say that I don't agree with SC's assessment of Sean Taylor. I think he's quick to cast him aside and I wish he showed the patience with Taylor that he complains the Redskins' FO doesn't show with the franchise as a whole.

And usually I don't agree with Curmudgeon and his "keeping it real" views. That being said though, what he wrote is the way you're supposed to write a dissenting view. Most everyone here knows that but there are those of you.. :Smoker:...who don't get it.

"All you idiot assclowns on this site can keep boning your Sean Taylor bobblehead" is not an example of a good retort that's going to earn you any respect on this site.

Sorry, I know it's off-topic but I figured it was a good time to express it. Hopefully those of you it applies to... :Smoker:...are reading this thread and understand.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

Gmanc711:

I am NOT passing judgment on Sean Taylor. I am telling you what my opinion of him is based on HIS behaviors.

He skipped out of the Rookie Seminar. That's not in doubt. He said it was because he was going to be evicted from his apartment. Assume that's true for just a moment; a mature adult would have known that eviction procedures were underway before getting on the plane to go to the rookei seminar and a mature adult would have done something about that. A mature adult - about to sign a contract worth millions of dollars - might have had the foresight to figure a way to forestall the eviction or avoid it entirely. After the fact, Taylor said that he and his roomates/cohorts owed a couple of thousand dollars in the deal. I don't know about you, but if I am about to come into something like $5-10M in cash money, I think I'd be able to find a way to structure some kind of deal to be sure I wasn't evicted from an apartment. Could you figure a way out of that "thicket"?

This doesn't mean his character is flawed; it means he isn't near the point where he is a responsible adult.

He is NOT guilty of DUI. Thank you for acknowledging that as an pro athlete with $$$ he gets to play by a different set of ruiles than you or I would in identical circumstances. What he doemonstrated in that circumstance was self-preservation which is not exactly the same thing as responsible adulthood. If I had to guess - yes, I said GUESS - I would say that he probably had a few "pops" at Gardner's birthday party and probably had a BAC above the legal limit when he was pulled over. But we'll never KNOW that just as we won't ever KNOW who killed Nicole Brown Simpson until OJ finds the real killers.

Then there is his musical agents game. And after he fired various agents, he somehow thought it was a good idea to hire an agent/company that specializes in baseball players and not NFL players. Note Jeff Moorad who negotiated his deal is now the GM of the Arizona D-Backs. So, what is the mature and rational thought process that would lead one to do something like that? There aren't a lot of possibilities here. Either he is fundamentally stupid or he took some bad advice from someone without doing a lot of checking on that advice, Neither of these possibililties foreshadows the emergence of a mature and rational adult any time soon.

Once again, he's not a bad person and his character is not flawed; he's just not acting like an adult.

Then Joe Gibbs says he wants 100% team participation in the off-season voluntary workouts. If you want ot be a "team guy" but you know in your heart that you don't like your contract and your agent says you have to "withhold your services" to get a new one, you need to try to figure out a way to withhold your services without pissing off the coach. I can think of a couple of ways to do this, but not showing up and not leaving the coach with an explanation that keeps this out of the papers as a big brouhaha isn't one of them.

I am not attacking Sean Taylor's character; he may indeed be a wonderful human being. But he has yet to demonstrate - by HIS benaviors off the field - that he is much more than an immature 16 year old from a rich family with access to loads of $$$.

Lots of those kinds of people never reach any real adult maturity either; the jury is still out on Sean Taylor.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

Alright; I get what your saying now. I dont agree 100% with everything you wrote; but I understand where its coming from now. I misunderstood what you were saying before. I still think we should wait a little while before giving him the meathead title, but I can't really argue for some of the things he's done. Nice post.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

TAFKAS:

Thank you very much for noticing that I am not accusing anyone here of "boning their Sean Taylor bobbleheads" nor have I called anyone an "assclown".

For the record, can someone explain to me what an assclown is? The possibilities are many and some of them bring very disturbing images to my mind.

You and I can agree to disagree on Sean Taylor - - but in truth I think we are a lot closer that we are apart in those views. I have said hundreds of times here that he is a VERY good player from a physical point of view and that IF he ever learns to play sound fundamental football AND grows up in his off-the-field actions, he will be a star in the league. I doubt you disagree with any of that.

Where I think we differ is that I believe that a young man of 21 or 22 should be showing SOME signs of developing maturity, judgment and all those things that come with adulthood. And I haven't yet seen a lot of them from Sean Taylor yet. You want to cut him more slack than I do based on his on-field skills. Fine. But please recall that I suggested that this contract renegotiation "problem" was gonna happen back around Thanksgiving last year. Trust me, Sean Taylor does not confide in me; so the only way I "knew" that was by looking at his behaviors and looking at where they logically would lead.

What would you say about Sean Taylor if he held out of training camp say until the third pre-season game? I don't think it will happen, but there is a 10% chance it could. So, is that "forgiveable" because he is potentially a great player or not?

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]Gmanc711:
For reasons that seem not to be important to the Sean Taylor Fan Club here, Joe Gibbs has made it clear that he really wants 100% participation in all the voluntary workouts this off-season. I guess that Joe Gibbs is doing that just to make himself a pain in the ass to the players because obviously it can't be all that important to ask these players to show up and work out in order to earn their salaries. He's doing that to annoy them, right?
[/QUOTE]

why do you always seem to talk down to people :P just because people disagree with you doesn't make them idiots.

and i don't really think anyone here believes we needed 98 more offensive points to win that game, way to strawman and totally disregard the arguement though.

how about the chicago game where taylor got an int with under 25 seconds left to seal a win (with a 3 point lead)... if he gets credit for losing dallas II, why doesn't he get credit for chicago (where he also got a good sack to kill a drive in the 3rd among other things)?

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

taylor had problems with his contract the week after it was done, that wasn't a big secret, but since he signed, there wasn't much he could do... at least until this august.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

He doesn't get credit for an INT in the Chicago game as a game-winner because Chicago was not actually in any danger of scoring at that point. Only a breakdown by the defense would have given them a score. Hmmm... That's sort fo what happened in the Dallas II game. The Cowboys were in no danger of scoring with about 60 yards to go and Vinny T under center unless there was a defensive breakdown. How'd that happen again?

The reason I said that the Redskins would not need for Taylor to make a big play late in the Dallas II game if everyone else had done something outstanding earlier on is because others here say you can't blame the loss on just one player. OK, if that's the case, then it was Ramsey's fault for not throwing TDs earleir. If that makes sense to you, go for it. It makes no sense to me.

The game was in hand for the Redskins; it was ready to go in the "W" column unless the defense blew it badly. That happened; go check out the final score and you'll be reminded of it. So, do you want to blame the DL for not getting a sack? Or the LBs for not knocking the WR on his ass at the line of scrimmage? Or the other DBs for covering their men so well that Vinny discovered Taylor's blown coverage? Who made the mistake with seconds left to play that cost the team a victory? Somebody did it or else it would have been a win and not a loss/

You don't think it was Sean Taylor. Fine. Who was it?

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

i'm just saying you shouldn't break down and blame an entire game on one play... there were 122 other plays that also helped decide the outcome. Yes, he screwed up royally and dallas scored... but if someone else was playing FS for us, we'd have no gaurantees they would have been any better. I'm just saying that 1 play is not the entire game though, I have no problem saying taylor made a big mistake and it cost the team; I'm just saying a lot of other things could gone better to avoid that situation (coulda shoulda etc).

Its kinda like how priest holmes gets all sorts of credit for being a great RB, but without his line he wouldn't look nearly as hot. Just because he's the pointman doesn't mean he's single-handedly responsible for all the yards he racks up.

The chicago game was closer to the end zone than the dallas game, and they only needed 3 points to tie, so you can discount when he does what he should, but not when screws up (ie he gets shit for his mistakes and no praise for his good plays)...

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

i was sitting here w/ someone and i was trying to show them how good this sight was and i came up on this discusion about taylor costing us games?

Wow i am sure that if he weren't on the field we would have won more games?

i just don't understand how we get these ideas, he played great he is great. we are comparing him with darell green! lets compare ramsey w/ baugh, and gardner w/ monk. it makes very little sense. portis w/ riggins. springs w/ green, smoot w/ green, jimoh w/ green

how can we say he lost us games, look at the plays he made in his video, he can develope. how can we complare him w/ the best players. he was first alternate to the probowl...... as a rookie. wtf more do we want. he played consitant and i remeber feeling that springs should have done something in the second game against the cow-girls. i think i repressed the play in my memory but from what i can see in my head i remeber that many reporters said that Springs ALSO messed up. he played inside and should have pushed the WR closer inside, springs let him get outside and that pushed him to far away. regardless we didn't lose the game b/c of taylor, one play that took 10 seconds of a 60 minute game.

i just thought i could show a friend how good this sight was and now i am trying to defend it.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

I take offense... I DO bone my sean taylor bobble head, and I AM an ass clown. And in that goddamn dallas II game, we couldnt get the pressure we usually got, we couldnt run the ball, but our short passing game was killing them. So, when we have the ball close to midfield and are forcing them to use their timeouts and we come to 3rd and 8, we shouldve stuck with what worked and kept their offense on the bench and put them away. Offense is the difference maker in the fourth quarter, you cant put all the pressure on your defense that late in the game. Especially not when you've got their backs against a wall.

I played alot of defense and its much more difficult... you have to be near perfect at least 3 times to accomplish what you set out to do. on offense you get 3+ tries to accomplish and you only have to hit once. Sean Taylor did not lose that game. Joe Gibbs lost that game.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

When I saw the draft day shot of Taylor at home after he was picked, my very first impression was this guy was going to be a pain in ass, though he may be a good player.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

i bet gibbs can't be too happy with either one of them.if these guys really want to win and not be a couple of really rich losers,listening to gibbs and removing their heads from their asses would be a step in the right direction.

Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]He doesn't get credit for an INT in the Chicago game as a game-winner because Chicago was not actually in any danger of scoring at that point. Only a breakdown by the defense would have given them a score. Hmmm... That's sort fo what happened in the Dallas II game. The Cowboys were in no danger of scoring with about 60 yards to go and Vinny T under center unless there was a defensive breakdown. How'd that happen again?



that might possibly be the most retarded thing you have ever written sc. let me get this straight, your saying the only time an offense scores is when the defense has a breakdown ? every time the colts score on the chiefs it's because the chiefs' defense had a breakdown, it has nothing to do with the colts having a good offense....right ? even if they are 60 yards away. a offense has the potential to score every time it gets the ball.
maybe, just maybe, your the real meathead.