Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

I believe Snyder pays for that.

At least he pays for police. I'm assuming he pays for the EMS/Fire fighters that are there too.

Snyder also pays for stadium maintenance.

I'm sure PG county pays for road maintenance, as they agreed to in the contract.

Did you do the math yet on the tax revenue?

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

[quote=tshile;1080128]I believe Snyder pays for that.

At least he pays for police. I'm assuming he pays for the EMS/Fire fighters that are there too.

Snyder also pays for stadium maintenance.

I'm sure PG county pays for road maintenance, as they agreed to in the contract.

Did you do the math yet on the tax revenue?[/quote]


So for them to be profitable. They have to gain over the course of 30 years than what they've put in. Simple formula:

Revenue -[70mil + (annual expenses x 30)]= Profit/Loss

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

[quote=tshile;1080128]I believe Snyder pays for that.

At least he pays for police. I'm assuming he pays for the EMS/Fire fighters that are there too.

Snyder also pays for stadium maintenance.

I'm sure PG county pays for road maintenance, as they agreed to in the contract.

Did you do the math yet on the tax revenue?[/quote]

Add in "inflation " what would it cost today to add the same roads ,sewers ,Metro,etc . Do you think in over the 30 years(lease) that people bought fuel , clothing , food, went to restaurants in PG county ,did they pay taxes ,did the retailers pay taxes ,did those retailers profit from the infrastructure around Fed Ex since it is used every day and just not on game day ?

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

[quote=Giantone;1080130]Add in "inflation " what would it cost today to add the same roads ,sewers ,Metro,etc . Do you think in over the 30 years(lease) that people bought fuel , clothing , food, went to restaurants in PG county ,did they pay taxes ,did the retailers pay taxes ,did those retailers profit from the infrastructure around Fed Ex since it is used every day and just not on game day ?[/quote]



I bring this up because the FBI is looking at the old Landover Mall site as one of it's locations to move to ,if it is chosen the "infrastructure is already in place from the exits on the Beltway to the Metro stop are all in place ,what would have been the cost if they had waited to do it all now ,would the FBI even be looking at PG county if all that wasn't there , no .

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1080129]So for them to be profitable. They have to gain over the course of 30 years than what they've put in. Simple formula:

Revenue [b]x 30[/b] -[70mil + (road maintenance x 30)]= Profit/Loss[/quote]

Right.

Have you done the math on the revenue yet?

ps - fixed your formula :)

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

[quote=saden1;1080014]

In our world when the billionaire baseball owner threatens to leave town unless the public finance his new stadium the billionaire football owner is likely to ask for the same deal. In Giantone's world baseball and football have nothing to do with each other.
.[/quote]

In the two stadiums being discussed they don't ,Fed Ex and Met Life in NJ . Now prove me wrong .

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1080127]You forgot the biggest detail of all. You forgot to subtract expenses (initial and reoccurring). Add up all the expenses on fire/rescue/police/road maintenance/ stadium maintenance/ etc... and subtract it from the revenue.[/quote]

Don't forget to factor in [URL="http://www.financialcalculator.org/personal-finance/opportunity-cost-calculator"]opportunity cost[/URL]!

[quote]If you spend $70,000,000.00 on an unnecessary product or service, and you could otherwise invest that money for 30 years at 4%, then spending the $70,000,000.00 could cost you $161,944,861.02 in forgone interest earnings. This would bring the real price-tag of what you are spending your money on to $231,944,861.02. So the question you should ask yourself is: Is what I am spending my money on worth $231,944,861.02?[/quote]

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

[quote=Giantone;1080133]In the two stadiums being discussed they don't ,Fed Ex and Met Life in NJ . Now prove me wrong .[/quote]

Don't try that narrowing of the subject shit with me. We are talking about the precedence set when you pay for the football or baseball stadium. Also, you seem to not understand the fact that the Gaints and Jets tried to get the public to build them a stadium but failed. See [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Side_Stadium"]West Side Stadium Story[/URL]. Unlike most sports teams they, of course, can't threaten to leave the biggest market in the nation though the NFL did manage to slightly punish the good people of NY....

[quote]In reaction to the state representatives' decision to reject the stadium's funding, the NFL decided on August 11 to reopen the bidding for the game site of Super Bowl XLIV. The eventual winner was Sun Life Stadium. [/quote]

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

[quote=tshile;1080132]Right.

Have you done the math on the revenue yet?

ps - fixed your formula :)[/quote]


They pay more expenses than just road maintenance.

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

I can't see it being a loss for the county, it may not be a huge gainer, but it probably is at least revenue neutral. No I haven't done any math, but if Stadiums were sinkholes, people wouldn't be clamoring to get them, as AT&T would say, it's not complicated.

I mean, I know the math can be complicated, and lots of variables come in to play, but really really bottom line, if PG County could point to FedEx and say that's where all the money is going, and try to get Dan Snyder to somehow pony up more money, there would be politicians out wazoo making that statement.

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1080144]I can't see it being a loss for the county, it may not be a huge gainer, but it probably is at least revenue neutral. No I haven't done any math, but if Stadiums were sinkholes, people wouldn't be clamoring to get them, as AT&T would say, it's not complicated.

I mean, I know the math can be complicated, and lots of variables come in to play, but really really bottom line, if PG County could point to FedEx and say that's where all the money is going, and try to get Dan Snyder to somehow pony up more money, there would be politicians out wazoo making that statement.[/quote]

You kinda have to do the math to determine whether its a loss or neutral. The problem is politicians don't like to release numbers so we can do the math. I can also assure you that when FedEx Field was being built there were politicians who were screaming NO but there weren't enough of them.


Only an honest man can say "No!" to a sweetheart deal.

[url=http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/10/how-the-nfl-fleeces-taxpayers/309448/]How the NFL Fleeces Taxpayers - Gregg Easterbrook - The Atlantic[/url]


My favorite...very creative...

[quote]In California, the City of Santa Clara broke ground on a $1.3 billion stadium for the 49ers. Officially, the deal includes $116 million in public funding, with private capital making up the rest. At least, that’s the way the deal was announced. A new government entity, the Santa Clara Stadium Authority, is borrowing $950 million, largely from a consortium led by Goldman Sachs, to provide the majority of the “private” financing. Who are the board members of the Santa Clara Stadium Authority? The members of the Santa Clara City Council. In effect, the city of Santa Clara is providing most of the “private” funding. Should something go wrong, taxpayers will likely take the hit.[/quote]

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

[quote=saden1;1080140]Don't try that narrowing of the subject shit with me. We are talking about the precedence set when you pay for the football or baseball stadium. Also, you seem to not understand the fact that the Gaints and Jets tried to get the public to build them a stadium but failed. See [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Side_Stadium"]West Side Stadium Story[/URL]. Unlike most sports teams they, of course, can't threaten to leave the biggest market in the nation though the NFL did manage to slightly punish the good people of NY....[/quote]


LOL , you can't read can you ? The Giants were , never , ever involved with that .So ....as you say don't try that shit with me .

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1080141]They pay more expenses than just road maintenance.[/quote]

like?

seriously, try to do the math on 10% of every seat sold in that stadium. don't forget the various price points, including the ridiculous club level contracts, as well as parking.

also look up PG County's cut of the alcohol sales, as well as food and merchandise.

then come in here and talk about how 70 million, roads, and whatever else you can come up with makes that all not worth it.

By the way - PG County and MD wanted the training camp site. DC, after just building two stadiums for two other teams, wants the Redskins new stadium.

But yeah - your simple math and assumptions trump all of that. It's obviously a terrible investment for DC

PS - I did the math before the recent price increases. I know what the numbers look like. That's why I keep asking you to do it. I can't help but wonder why you would form such a strong opinion and refuse to spend 5 minutes doing some basic math to see how your opinions stack up.

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

[quote=Giantone;1080158]LOL , you can't read can you ? The Giants were , never , ever involved with that .So ....as you say don't try that shit with me .[/quote]

The sad fact is there is fleecing going on.

But those guys don't want to meet half way and recognize that there are cases where there is a benefit.

Like when your one of the biggest media markets in the country and you have no trouble selling out your stadium.

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

I am waiting for someone to say FIFA helped out Brazil... Eerily similar in my personal opinion.

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

[quote=Giantone;1080158]LOL , you can't read can you ? The Giants were , never , ever involved with that .So ....as you say don't try that shit with me .[/quote]

Try not to feel stupid....

[url=http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=2079243&src=desktop]NFL Giants will split $750M home if West Side stadium fails - ESPN[/url]

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

[quote=saden1;1080171]Try not to feel stupid....

[url=http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=2079243&src=desktop]NFL Giants will split $750M home if West Side stadium fails - ESPN[/url][/quote]

Why would he feel stupid about that? It clearly says the Jets wanted the stadium and that the Giants would do a joint stadium with the Jets if the stadium the Jets wanted fell through. No where does it say the Giants were ever involved in the West Side Stadium.

[quote=donofriose;1080165]I am waiting for someone to say FIFA helped out Brazil... Eerily similar in my personal opinion.[/quote]

I dont see how thats anything alike. Brazil built something like 10 or 12 stadiums to be used for 3 or 4 weeks, then have nothing readily available to use it every year. Thats quite the difference than building 1 stadium that will be used every year.

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

[quote=saden1;1080171]Try not to feel stupid....

[url=http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=2079243&src=desktop]NFL Giants will split $750M home if West Side stadium fails - ESPN[/url][/quote]

Again , did you read the link ?If the stadium deal for the Jets does not happen they would split the cost of the 1.5 billion stadium in the Meadow lands with the Giants . =750,000 million ,next !

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

"Our preference all along has been to play in a building with the Jets''

Translates to.

The probability of the Giants building a 1.4 billion dollar stadium by themselves is nil. Ideally both teams would prefer taxpayers pay for two stadium. The problem is though the Giants and Jets can't go to tax payers together or separately and ask for money. No one in their right mind would give tax payer money to two football teams with a combined annual income of 500+ million dollars or build each their own stadium. If the Jets alone went to tax payers and got them to build a stadium the Giants would almost certainly work out a deal to be a tenant in this new stadium.

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

[quote=donofriose;1080165]I am waiting for someone to say FIFA helped out Brazil... Eerily similar in my personal opinion.[/quote]

Brazil built stadiums out in the middle of nowhere, where the cost of getting the materials to the site alone was astronomical. Stadiums that were used for a week, or two, or three and have no long term planned use.

Brazil's FIFA experiment has been shown to have lined the pockets of a few builders via corrupt politicians at the expense of the rest of the country.

I don't know anyone other than FIFA and Brazil that have tried to tout that as smart or a success on any level.

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

This thread hasn't gotten [U]too[/U] bad.

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

[quote=saden1;1080208]

Translates to.

um.[/quote]


Would a ,could a ,should a, ,deal in facts jr and the facts are what they are ,you are wrong .

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

Nobody here gives a dam about what a Giants fan and a guy from Seattle think about a proposed Jets stadium in New Jersey, except you two. Give the rest of us a break.

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1080239]Nobody here gives a dam about what a Giants fan and a guy from Seattle think about a proposed Jets stadium in New Jersey, except you two. Give the rest of us a break.[/quote]


Thank You for your reply .

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11465929/san-francisco-49ers-game-costs-family-four-nfl-high-average-641]San Francisco 49ers game costs family of four an NFL-high average of $641 - ESPN[/url]

Who's going to be able to afford to go if/when it's built?

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1080244][url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11465929/san-francisco-49ers-game-costs-family-four-nfl-high-average-641]San Francisco 49ers game costs family of four an NFL-high average of $641 - ESPN[/url]

Who's going to be able to afford to go if/when it's built?[/quote]

This is why I get so mad with the fan base.... majority of the people talking about how Fedex sucks and how badly the Redskins need a new stadium seem to be people that don't actually go to the stadium or plan on going to the new one... They completely overlook what the actual season ticket holders and stadium goers are worried about - the price...

I haven't talked to a single ticket holder about the new stadium stuff that hasn't immediately said, in some sort of fashion, that they think this will be the end of their run as a ticket holder.

Snyder talks about bouncing seats and designing it like RFK - restoring the atmosphere. I can't tell if he actually understands the problems with the FedEx atmosphere and how to fix it or not...

He comes off as thinking it's about the stadium design.... but I think if you asked people that actually go to the games, they'd list (in order):
- Pricing out the average fan in favor of the wine-and-cheese/corporate crowd
- Not putting a winning team on the field.

One of those he can directly control, the other he can't. It's going to be interesting to see what happens. The Browns have bailed on PSLs. I hope other teams follow suit.

It's possible the best thing to happen to Redskins ticket holders is that the stadium be delayed as much as possible, to let the PSL fad run its course and die the death it deserves...

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

Where are they proposing this new stadium be located? And why do they need a new one ALREADY? FedEx isn't even 20 years old, is it?

I've never been to Fed Ex; have heard nothing but horror stories about the traffic - like the old days of trying to exit the Capital Centre. But man, the good times we had in there...

Obviously, there's got to be a financial incentive to Snyder on this; what's his angle?

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

A new stadium is years away from happening. There's a 30 year lease on FedEx. 13 years to go.

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

Oh hell, I was thinking like next season.......
At least we have a first round pick to look forward to

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

[quote=Hog1;1080325]Oh hell, I was thinking like next season.......
At least we have a first round pick to look forward to[/quote]

Since we'll have the 32nd pick, we might as well trade back.

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

[quote=Mattyk;1080322]A new stadium is years away from happening. There's a 30 year lease on FedEx. 13 years to go.[/quote]

From what I understand, it won't be very difficult to break the lease early

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1080343]From what I understand, it won't be very difficult to break the lease early[/quote]


From my understand the Skins would have to repay all the money for the infrastructure if the lease is broken but my question is again what do you do with Fed Ex ?

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1080244][url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11465929/san-francisco-49ers-game-costs-family-four-nfl-high-average-641]San Francisco 49ers game costs family of four an NFL-high average of $641 - ESPN[/url]

Who's going to be able to afford to go if/when it's built?[/quote]


Season tickets holders also usually buy parking pass's and the pre-season games .

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

[quote=Giantone;1080373]From my understand the Skins would have to repay all the money for the infrastructure if the lease is broken but my question is again what do you do with Fed Ex ?[/quote]

[IMG]http://coedbc.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/url.gif?w=470[/IMG]

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

[quote=Paul Nichols;1080321]Where are they proposing this new stadium be located? And why do they need a new one ALREADY? FedEx isn't even 20 years old, is it?

I've never been to Fed Ex; have heard nothing but horror stories about the traffic - [B]like the old days of trying to exit the Capital Centre[/B]. But man, the good times we had in there...

Obviously, there's got to be a financial incentive to Snyder on this; what's his angle?[/quote]

bringing back some good times .... went to every caps game from about '85 to '95. dale hunter's overtime breakaway goal against hextel in game 7? when we scored with 20 seconds left to tie it? that place was bananas.

fed ex truly does suck for fan experience. i havent been in 2 years now but if your seats are in the upper deck you literally cant see the ball if it is thrown in the air. you are so high up, birds are actually flying underneath you. if we are playing the giants, its like watching red dots play blue dots.

if you sit on the lower seats and stand when the D is on the field, an usher will very quickly tell you to sit down (bc some rich old guy complained). when i was sitting in the lower level i had to fight to allowed to stand on 3rd down stands.

getting in or out is ridiculous. parking is so expensive, last i parked it cost me $25 to park literally a mile from the stadium. a freaking mile! and i have to pay for such accommodation?

im going to 1 game this year but i honestly wouldnt go if someone gave me free tickets. it sucks that bad.

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

for what it's worth, i've been going to every game for quite a while and will do so again this year.

i don't have an issue with traffice. I show up early and don't try to jump on 495 like 80% of the people leaving the stadium. It takes me an 1:10 to get from my house to my parking spot and 1:20 to get from my seat to my driveway.

the sit down/stand up argument is an old one :) my position is that the average football iq of stadium goers at fedex is too low and it causes problems. it's one thing to stand on big moments of the game - hell I do it. but the way the stadium is designed if a person stands all game (and many do) the **entire section** has to stand the whole game. go to 8 games a year, year after year, and let me know how long it takes you to start to think that one guy that's there for his one game a year is ruining it for everyone else. standing all game every game isn't the end of the world, but it's really annoying when you pay enough attention and realize it winds up being an entire section inconvenienced by one person...

the parking situation sucks but it's not entirely Snyder's fault. The infrastructure was part of PG county's job, and PG County is the one that decided to take away the bus system for metro riders.

every time i talk to someone about their complaints it almost always boils down to them being a novice and not really understanding things. which can be a bad mark on the stadium itself, but you also have to understand the area. traffic sucks period. try going to a nats/caps game in your car. let me know how that works out. every game i zoom by people waiting to get off at arena drive - traffic backed up onto 495. i go up to my exit and in 10 minutes i'm unloading my car. those people aren't even on the grounds yet. i kind of feel bad for them. kind of. there's guides to getting in and out of that stadium all over the internet, if you can't be bothered to look them up and figure it out then enjoy waiting in traffic.

my biggest complaints are they priced out too many people. when you look around it seems like you see a bunch of drunk 20 somethings that have disposable income to blow on a game or two a year or your have someone that's not even a fan and got tickets from their work or from some business trying to show them a good time.

that and their parking situation sucks. i hope to god they don't build the walk ways *around* the lots at the new stadium. the people don't pay attention to the traffic directors and this causes majority of the traffic problem - if you don't know what you're doing you'll spend half your drive home just waiting to exit the parking lot. they need to build the walk ways through the center of the lots so people can walk straight to their cars and cars can easily leave the lots...

my only other problem is the sheer size of the stadium. i know that if the team was playing better we'd have a higher % of skins fans in the stadium, but there will still be a lot of other teams' fans. bumping it down to a capacity in the 60k's would tip it back to where it should be.

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

It was actually federal guidelines, not PG County that stopped the bus rides. This thread so needs to go into debating with the enemies to continue my thoughts.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/05/AR2008080503094.html]Metro Shuttle To FedEx Field Is Scuttled[/url]

[QUOTE]The team used to charter shuttle buses from Metro, but new federal guidelines prohibit public transit agencies from providing charter bus service if private companies are available to provide the service. Last year, Metro chartered nearly 2,500 buses for revenue of $1.6 million.[/QUOTE]

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

Ah, that's right. It was metro. I suppose PG county has nothing to do with Metro :)

Thank you for the correction!

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1080377][IMG]http://coedbc.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/url.gif?w=470[/IMG][/quote]



The stadium is equity ,tear it down and lose a lot of value .Maryland doesn't want it ,Ravens ,no ,Navy,no ,even if you develop the land and add housing there isn't enough property to equal the value lost in the stadium .I doubt even Dan Snyder will throw away 750/850 million dollars .

Re: New Stadium for the Redskins being planned . . .
 

[quote=Giantone;1080402]The stadium is equity ,tear it down and lose a lot of value .Maryland doesn't want it ,Ravens ,no ,Navy,no ,even if you develop the land and add housing there isn't enough property to equal the value lost in the stadium .I doubt even Dan Snyder will throw away 750/850 million dollars .[/quote]

i was being facetious

MODS Please I beg of thee move this thread to debating... (or better yet thread hell since the stadium won't change in a decade)