Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

@john_keim: Honestly, not sure how fans keep hanging in there with this team. They're quite lucky ur loyal. And that others

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

[quote=ethat001;1089381]1) We first have to admit, currently we suck.

2) However, let's be a little more fair to Jay Gruden / Haslett / Bruce Allen. Every team has injuries, but we've been hit hard. We've lost:
- starting QB, NT, CB#1, CB#3 (Porter)
- played this game w/o: CB#2, MLB#2, OLB#2 (Kerrigan)
- most of year w/o TE#1, backup safeties (Nacho)

Admittedly Arizona has still been 5-1 despite injuries to QB/etc -- but almost every other team in the league would suck without their QB & key players.

3) We NEED to draft early round O-linemen. Dallas just beat Seattle, with only one sack and >160 rushing yards, with a stellar Oline. We have a lot of needs, but [B]ignoring our trenches is why we have a lot of "superstar players" but few wins.[/B] We need to fix the line, the no-name players in the trenches to win against good teams with pass rushes. We need to be able to run with A.Morris again.


POSITIVE: At least I get my Sunday's back.[/quote]

I couldn't agree more with you about the O-Line. I have long believed that a dominant O-Line is the cornerstone of a winning team. If a team team builds a strong, young OL over a short span of seasons, they can keep that line together for ten years while adding strong backups who can eventually become starters along the way. The Redskins have failed miserably in that respect.

In 1981, the Redskins had a couple of good OL's and very good TE's. In one draft, Bobby Beathard added Mark May and Russ Grimm. That same year, he added Joe Jacoby as an UDFA. All three of those players became immediate starters and the Hogs were born. So, it can be done quickly.

All great teams have great offensive lines. To me, that is the starting point.

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

I really hope no one starts talking about trading KC for a second rounder or something insane. With the right team he might be an effective game manager but a team with those pieces could probably get a KC type without trading away draft picks.

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1089411]I really hope no one starts talking about trading KC for a second rounder or something insane. With the right team he might be an effective game manager but a team with those pieces could probably get a KC type without trading away draft picks.[/quote]

True. At this point there is no good reason to continue with Kirk until RGIII returns. Colt might be able to help us win a game, so I hope he gets a chance.

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

The Cult of Kirk certainly has been quieted. Just a few weeks ago people were arguing that KC is our QB of the future.

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

[QUOTE=Lotus;1089414]The Cult of Kirk certainly has been quieted. Just a few weeks ago people were arguing that KC is our QB of the future.[/QUOTE]


Yeah well after the jags and birds game there was obviously reason to believe so. Good games = hope. Horrible games = no hope. Seems fairly logical from where I stand. Problem is that Griff has two things that make you wonder if he is the guy. His health and his performance. Unfortunately at this point neither of those is a sure thing. At this point the season is over and Colt winning a game or two does nothing for me, it just means we move back a spot or two in the draft.

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

[QUOTE=Big C;1089405]I don't even get mad at Redskins games anymore. This team has killed my passion for the team. I go into games knowing we are already going to lose. Damn shame what has happened to this franchise. Another lost season. We are 4-18 including last season. That is beyond pathetic.[/QUOTE]


This
I used to be in such a bad mood on Mondays after a game when we lost,thank God I've been able to move past that thanks to the Redskins losing so much I have become immune to the pain

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

The season is over so there's no sense sticking McCoy in there he might win a couple of games but he's not the future.
Teams and fans are too quick to give up on quarterbacks nowadays and don't want to give them any time to develop.
RG3 had all of last year to try to develop to a pocket passer but everybody is saying he needs more time to be patient.
Well Kirk has started four games this year and everybody's already saying get him out of there.
well Kirk needs time to develop just like anybody else he needs to stay in the lineup and take his lumps

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

[quote=htownskinfan;1089420]The season is over so there's no sense sticking McCoy in there he might win a couple of games but he's not the future.
Teams and fans are too quick to give up on quarterbacks nowadays and don't want to give them any time to develop.
RG3 had all of last year to try to develop to a pocket passer but everybody is saying he needs more time to be patient.
Well Kirk has started four games this year and everybody's already saying get him out of there.
well Kirk needs time to develop just like anybody else he needs to stay in the lineup and take his lumps[/quote]

Sorry, but for the guy who supposedly has the 'better pocket presence' Kirk's numbers suck. Too many INTs, only one win as a starter, Griffin has faults but he is not the one man INT machine that is Cousins, case closed.

Case in point Carson Palmer somehow, completes a pass with at least two Redskins d-linemen. Cosins, either goes limp and gets slammed like a rag doll, or throws a horrible pick. If Griffin cannot come back, we may not win another game.

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

[QUOTE=DirtBagZ;1089423]Sorry, but for the guy who supposedly has the 'better pocket presence' Kirk's numbers suck. Too many INTs, only one win as a starter, Griffin has faults but he is not the one man INT machine that is Cousins, case closed.



Case in point Carson Palmer somehow, completes a pass with at least two Redskins d-linemen. Cosins, either goes limp and gets slammed like a rag doll, or throws a horrible pick. If Griffin cannot come back, we may not win another game.[/QUOTE]


Agree with everything you're saying,when RG3 is ready to come back go ahead and stick him in there,but i do not believe you stick mccoy in over Cousins
Let Cousins take his lumps

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

[quote=punch it in;1089406][url=http://youtu.be/Hu_HUNf4bFk]Phil Collins - I Don't Care Anymore (Live Chile 1995) - YouTube[/url][/quote]

Great song and definitely the anthem for this season, over before the mid point.

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

We are going to win 9 of our last 10 and win the division.

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

[quote=htownskinfan;1089420]The season is over so there's no sense sticking McCoy in there he might win a couple of games but he's not the future.
Teams and fans are too quick to give up on quarterbacks nowadays and don't want to give them any time to develop.
RG3 had all of last year to try to develop to a pocket passer but everybody is saying he needs more time to be patient.
Well Kirk has started four games this year and everybody's already saying get him out of there.
well Kirk needs time to develop just like anybody else he needs to stay in the lineup and take his lumps[/quote]

Kirk Cousins is regressing. He's got no "stage presence" at all

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;1089428]Kirk Cousins is regressing. He's got no "stage presence" at all[/QUOTE]


So whats your point?
RG3 regressed also did he not?
You want Mccoy in there also?

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

[quote=ethat001;1089381]1) We first have to admit, currently we suck.

2) However, let's be a little more fair to Jay Gruden / Haslett / Bruce Allen. Every team has injuries, but we've been hit hard. We've lost:
- starting QB, NT, CB#1, CB#3 (Porter)
- played this game w/o: CB#2, MLB#2, OLB#2 (Kerrigan)
- most of year w/o TE#1, backup safeties (Nacho)

Admittedly Arizona has still been 5-1 despite injuries to QB/etc -- but almost every other team in the league would suck without their QB & key players.

3) We NEED to draft early round O-linemen. Dallas just beat Seattle, with only one sack and >160 rushing yards, with a stellar Oline. We have a lot of needs, but ignoring our trenches is why we have a lot of "superstar players" but few wins. We need to fix the line, the no-name players in the trenches to win against good teams with pass rushes. We need to be able to run with A.Morris again.


POSITIVE: At least I get my Sunday's back.[/quote]

Did you see how many players the Cardinals were missing?

Also, we don't need to draft early round OL. We just need to be smarter about the ones we do draft/sign

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

[QUOTE=htownskinfan;1089420]The season is over so there's no sense sticking McCoy in there he might win a couple of games but he's not the future.
Teams and fans are too quick to give up on quarterbacks nowadays and don't want to give them any time to develop.
RG3 had all of last year to try to develop to a pocket passer but everybody is saying he needs more time to be patient.
Well Kirk has started four games this year and everybody's already saying get him out of there.
well Kirk needs time to develop just like anybody else he needs to stay in the lineup and take his lumps[/QUOTE]
Kirk actually has had 7 games plus 2 full off seasons. He apparently is a very good back up, not so good starter. Gus was like that too. I would be surprised if he ever turned into more at this point. And you do have to wonder would we be worse off just starting McCoy. I doubt it.

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1089410]I couldn't agree more with you about the O-Line. I have long believed that a dominant O-Line is the cornerstone of a winning team. If a team team builds a strong, young OL over a short span of seasons, they can keep that line together for ten years while adding strong backups who can eventually become starters along the way. The Redskins have failed miserably in that respect.

In 1981, the Redskins had a couple of good OL's and very good TE's. In one draft, Bobby Beathard added Mark May and Russ Grimm. That same year, he added Joe Jacoby as an UDFA. All three of those players became immediate starters and the Hogs were born. So, it can be done quickly.

All great teams have great offensive lines. To me, that is the starting point.[/quote]


They drafted two o-linemen and brought in a left guard. Neither rookie can get on the field and Shawn L is below average. I'm more worried about the people/person that are picking the players.

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1089432]Kirk actually has had 7 games plus 2 full off seasons. He apparently is a very good back up, not so good starter. Gus was like that too. I would be surprised if he ever turned into more at this point. And you do have to wonder would we be worse off just starting McCoy. I doubt it.[/quote]

Kirk deserves his chance. He can still turn it around. If you yank him you ruin him. But if he has a game like 4 INTs first half you yank him at half but the next game you start him.

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1089432]Kirk actually has had 7 games plus 2 full off seasons. He apparently is a very good back up, not so good starter. Gus was like that too. I would be surprised if he ever turned into more at this point. And you do have to wonder would we be worse off just starting McCoy. I doubt it.[/QUOTE]


Does anybody believe McCoy is going to save our season? If the answer is no then why bother? He is not the future

I am not saying cousins is the future,what I am saying is it doesn't make any sense to stick McCoy in the lineup

Two or three games ago everybody thought cousins was our future now everybody wants him to hit the road,Stick Mccoy in there!!

Cousins it's probably not the future but needs to take his lumps and get the experience just in case

I think what probably will end up happening is cousins getting cut or traded for a very low pick and then going to another team and becoming all pro,that seems to be the redskins luck

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

KC does some things well, he gets rid of the ball and doesn't take a lot of sacks, but the turnovers are just killing him...and the team.

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

[quote=htownskinfan;1089435]Does anybody believe McCoy is going to save our season? If the answer is no then why bother? He is not the future

I am not saying cousins is the future,what I am saying is it doesn't make any sense to stick McCoy in the lineup

Two or three games ago everybody thought cousins was our future now everybody wants him to hit the road,Stick Mccoy in there!!

Cousins it's probably not the future but needs to take his lumps and get the experience just in case

I think what probably will end up happening is cousins getting cut or traded for a very low pick and then going to another team and becoming all pro,that seems to be the redskins luck[/quote]

We need to let the QB situation play out. I don't think anyone thought KC was 100% the future. What we do know is that if RG3 is the future, I would assume he still is, we're going to need a very strong back up. I have 0 confidence in RG3 staying healthy.

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

At this point without any doubt..the Skins are the worst team in the league.at what point do you unload the so called star players on this team and try and find OL help..or DB help..i would trade Alfred morris today for a starting OL..or a DB..Garcon would be gone for the same..without a SOLID OL the team has nothing but a flashy paint job on a car that won't run! Cousins is Bad..McCoy should be given a shot to see how bad he is..Morgan Moses can't play not even on this OL..wasted pick! Alfred Morris can't block at all in pass support and he looks very slow to me..at this point without RGIII coming back 100% I can't see this team winning 2 more games this year..we should have top pick in draft and I would unload all the overpaid underachieving players we have and get younger .you got to have a plan!

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

[quote=htownskinfan;1089435]Does anybody believe McCoy is going to save our season? If the answer is no then why bother? He is not the future

I am not saying cousins is the future,what I am saying is it doesn't make any sense to stick McCoy in the lineup

Two or three games ago everybody thought cousins was our future now everybody wants him to hit the road,Stick Mccoy in there!!

Cousins it's probably not the future but needs to take his lumps and get the experience just in case

[B][I]I think what probably will end up happening is cousins getting cut or traded for a very low pick and then going to another team and becoming all pro,that seems to be the redskins luc[/I][/B]k[/quote]

I dont really think cousins will turn out to be all pro for someone else,that just seems to be the skins luck,we seem cursed

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

[quote=htownskinfan;1089430]So whats your point?
RG3 regressed also did he not?
You want Mccoy in there also?[/quote]

Yeah I do want Colt in there. Kirk's potential value as trade bait goes down with every game he plays.

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1089443]Yeah I do want Colt in there. Kirk's potential value as trade bait goes down with every game he plays.[/quote]

Cereal! The guy has gone from being worth 3 first round picks all the way down to 2 first round picks. Is it illegal for teams to report fake injuries?

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1089443]Yeah I do want Colt in there. Kirk's potential value as trade bait goes down with every game he plays.[/quote]

Realistically what do you think we could get for him at this point? I am sure there are several coaches and GMs with big egos that think they can do with KC what the Skins cannot, or do you see him as a valuable back up that teams would be willing to trade to upgrade?

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

Shanny (or BA, depends on who was calling the personnel shots) neglected the defense for years and the chickens are coming home to roost.

The defense has been destroyed with injuries. I havent seen any posts including Bowen on the injury list. Bowen didn't wow anybody last year but still started cause the other guys weren't any better.

This is a rebuild. I got caught up in the hype like everybody else. This was always a rebuild no matter how much I wanted it not to be.

Drafting two o lineman and an olb is the right direction.

I really like Jay coming out and trying to take some of the pressure off Kirk in the press conference but it was execution not the plan that was the problem.

Kirk loses his mind when we are behind and he tries to make a play.

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1089445]Realistically what do you think we could get for him at this point? I am sure there are several coaches and GMs with big egos that think they can do with KC what the Skins cannot, or do you see him as a valuable back up that teams would be willing to trade to upgrade?[/quote]

6th or 7th at best

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1089443]Yeah I do want Colt in there. Kirk's potential value as trade bait goes down with every game he plays.[/quote]

we'd be lucky to be able to trade kirk by adding draft picks to get rid of him

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1089443]Yeah I do want Colt in there. Kirk's potential value as trade bait goes down with every game he plays.[/quote]

This entire "trade KC talk" is stale. Why is everyone so obsessed about getting a draft pick of KC? Is it because the RG3 trade looks like crap right now? Clev offered a 3rd rounder last year? Would that player be helping this team right now? Probably not. He'd most likely be on the bench like Spencer Long is. KC is what he is right now, a 3rd year guy w/ little starting experience that's not good enough to carry a bad team.

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1089431]Did you see how many players the Cardinals were missing?

Also, we don't need to draft early round OL. We just need to be smarter about the ones we do draft/sign[/quote]

What is your sense about Bruce Allen? Is he likely/unlikely to hand off personnel decisions to others and just worry about money stuff?

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

[quote=Lotus;1089454]What is your sense about Bruce Allen? Is he likely/unlikely to hand off personnel decisions to others and just worry about money stuff?[/quote]

It's going to take ownership to force a change

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1089457]It's going to take ownership to force a change[/quote]

I was afraid you'd say that. Ugh.

I liked the idea of having BA as a money guy with real, empowered personnel guys around him. But BA should not be impersonating Ted Thompson.

Once again I must renew my plea: why don't we do things like other teams? Why can't we have a real GM and a real coach? Is such a set-up really so difficult to implement?

We suck at making wheels. We should be the last people trying to reinvent them.

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

I'd blow this shit up....rebuild it
Blow it up again.....

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

[quote=Hog1;1089460]I'd blow this shit up....rebuild it
Blow it up again.....[/quote]

What is there to blow up?

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

[quote=spAtt;1089292]Positives: We are one game closer to the end of the season

Negatives: Fuck it, I am done.[/quote]

That literally made me lmfao!

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

People keep talking about blowing things up, instead of doing that, how about we address areas that haven't been addressed such as the safety position, interior defensive line, and the right side of the offensive line? The biggest mistake the FO has made is to find bad stopgaps and/or depend on old players in these areas.

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

Just wanted to get in on the thread on the majority side....

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1089463]People keep talking about blowing things up, instead of doing that, how about we address areas that haven't been addressed such as the safety position, interior defensive line, and the right side of the offensive line? The biggest mistake the FO has made is to find bad stopgaps and/or depend on old players in these areas.[/quote]

Address it how?

Re: Skins vs. Cards Positives + Negatives
 

[QUOTE=DirtBagZ;1089425]Great song and definitely the anthem for this season, over before the mid point.[/QUOTE]


Sadly it was intended to symbolize two decades not just this season but for the sake of my mindset well go with the season.