Re: RG3 is back
 

Where is the evidence that Snyder is overriding anyone?

I hate Snyder, as a person and owner of my favorite team, as much as the next guy. But that talking point gets thrown around a lot with ZERO to back it up.

Yes, if Snyder is overriding the coach then that's a problem. But it's a different problem.

I think we can beat Minnesota with McCoy. I think Griffin gives us a significantly better chance and it's not even close. At 3-5 we don't exactly have the luxury to go with McCoy if Griffin is ready - unless you've given up on the season.

It cracks me up how hard people are falling over McCoy. The same people that were gushing over Cousins. Some of them were saying Griffin's injury was a blessing in disguise for Gruden so he could start the quarterback he really likes.

It's all a bunch of nonsense.

Re: RG3 is back
 

[quote=tshile;1092202]I am factoring that in, I'm just factoring it in as realizing the **entire team** has struggled all year up until the Dallas game. Even the Titans game was just bad, bad football; we won, but it was bad football by both teams. The defense had been putrid outside of the Jacksonville game until Dallas. The Special Teams was again striving for worst in league history; again until Dallas.

If we're to have a season all 3 phases of the team need to be on the ball. That includes Griffin. Seasons change on a whim. Momentum is a bitch. We may finally have some good momentum for the first time this year.




To me, when a coach says the guy is ready, that means:
He's medically cleared and not at risk to injure himself
He's physically good, movement/mechanics are not going to be limited
He's got enough reps with the offense to be on the same page as them
In Griffin's case, due to his age and possition, I'd add: He's not in a state where he's likely to revert to bad habits/mechanics or someone stunt his growth (or even damage it) as a young quarterback.

So if he's ready. He's ready. If he's not ready and Gruden says he's ready, then we have a problem at the HC position.[/quote]

I think Gruden is saying that right now for Griffin:

"He's medically cleared and not at risk to injure himself
He's physically good, movement/mechanics are not going to be limited"

But maybe not that:
"He's got enough reps with the offense to be on the same page as them"

And I think some of the concern is that he hasn't mastered his mechanics, and or gotten rid of bad habits.

So, what I'm getting is that you, like everyone else, dont think RG3 should start unless he is fully prepared. So, I'm not sure where the disagreement is.

Re: RG3 is back
 

[QUOTE=tshile;1092207]Where is the evidence that Snyder is overriding anyone?



I hate Snyder, as a person and owner of my favorite team, as much as the next guy. But that talking point gets thrown around a lot with ZERO to back it up.



Yes, if Snyder is overriding the coach then that's a problem. But it's a different problem.



I think we can beat Minnesota with McCoy. I think Griffin gives us a significantly better chance and it's not even close. At 3-5 we don't exactly have the luxury to go with McCoy if Griffin is ready - unless you've given up on the season.



It cracks me up how hard people are falling over McCoy. The same people that were gushing over Cousins. Some of them were saying Griffin's injury was a blessing in disguise for Gruden so he could start the quarterback he really likes.



It's all a bunch of nonsense.[/QUOTE]


Well a win is a win. No style points in the nfl. So in my mind there are a couple different scenarios. One - colt wins and keeps the season alive while Griff prepares for the home stretch and gets two more weeks to do so. Two - griff starts and looks better than Mccoy and wins.
Ofcourse either one could also shit the bed and we could lose but eff that. Lol.
So im simply taking the cautious way out here and giving Griff more time. If i had a crystal ball and knew RG-3 was going to show up strong this Sunday than of course lets get this ship rolling with the man at the helm. I dont. I said already that the fan in me wants Griff to start because I know he is the future of the franchise. But in the back of my head something tells me to give him two more weeks of prep time.

Re: RG3 is back
 

Here's a question I heard. Which I initially thought was stupid and i laughed. Then.... I started to wonder... Does rg3 make that sideline pass to reed that colt did so amazingly? Or does he take off, Fall, get hurt or fumble?
He's gotta get past his awkwardness with this system and how he's trying to become a pocket passer... He's looked awkward all season, I just hope he gets over it, and crushes the vikings. I'm fine with either qb starting on Sunday, but an extra week off that ankle couldn't hurt either ..

Re: RG3 is back
 

[quote=tshile;1092207]Where is the evidence that Snyder is overriding anyone?[/quote]

Personally, I've heard from more than enough people to believe strongly that either Snyder (and his associates) or Allen (or both?) is putting a lot of pressure on Gruden to play Griffin ASAP (just like when they told him he had to start him at the beginning of the year

[quote]I hate Snyder, as a person and owner of my favorite team, as much as the next guy. But that talking point gets thrown around a lot with ZERO to back it up.[/quote]

He's no bigger jerk than Ted Leonsis, I don't have a problem with him

[quote]Yes, if Snyder is overriding the coach then that's a problem. But it's a different problem[/quote]

Let the coach sink with his own ship, I guess

[quote]I think we can beat Minnesota with McCoy. I think Griffin gives us a significantly better chance and it's not even close. At 3-5 we don't exactly have the luxury to go with McCoy if Griffin is ready - unless you've given up on the season.[/quote]

If Griffin shows that he's not ready on Sunday, it will be disastrous for the organization. Could be a franchise altering loss

[quote]It cracks me up how hard people are falling over McCoy. The same people that were gushing over Cousins. Some of them were saying Griffin's injury was a blessing in disguise for Gruden so he could start the quarterback he really likes.[/quote]

Not me. I said from the start Cousins would be exposed as nothing more than a career backup. But yeah Gruden really did like him

[quote]It's all a bunch of nonsense.[/quote]

Where's Rex Grossman when you need him?

Re: RG3 is back
 

"Personally, I've heard from more than enough people to believe strongly that either Snyder (and his associates) or Allen (or both?) is putting a lot of pressure on Gruden to play Griffin ASAP [B](just like when they told him he had to start him at the beginning of the year"[/B]

You think Jay wanted to possibly start someone else at the beginning of the year?

You make a great point if Rg3 doesnt play well and its a bad loss at Minny.That would put alot of people at conflict within the organization im sure.

I dont see rushing RG3 if he is not ready. Makes no sense

Re: RG3 is back
 

[quote=WillH;1092208]
So, what I'm getting is that you, like everyone else, dont think RG3 should start unless he is fully prepared. So, I'm not sure where the disagreement is.[/quote]

There are people saying even if he's ready sit him because:
bye week
McCoy's performance against Dallas.

My point is - if he's ready, you play him. Until he proves he's not as good as McCoy.

Re: RG3 is back
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1092211]Personally, I've heard from more than enough people to believe strongly that either Snyder (and his associates) or Allen (or both?) is putting a lot of pressure on Gruden to play Griffin ASAP (just like when they told him he had to start him at the beginning of the year
[/quote]

More than enough epople that you personally know that are in a position to know that sort of thing?

Or more than enough people in the media?

Re: RG3 is back
 

[quote=Chico23231;1092212]"Personally, I've heard from more than enough people to believe strongly that either Snyder (and his associates) or Allen (or both?) is putting a lot of pressure on Gruden to play Griffin ASAP [B](just like when they told him he had to start him at the beginning of the year"[/B]

You think Jay wanted to possibly start someone else at the beginning of the year?

You make a great point if Rg3 doesnt play well and its a bad loss at Minny.That would put alot of people at conflict within the organization im sure.

I dont see rushing RG3 if he is not ready. Makes no sense[/quote]

Didn't I mention this before the Seahawks game? Maybe I only told the other mods. Yes, know this from very very very reliable sources who have known Jay Gruden for a looooooonggggggg time. He thought RG3 was not ready for week 1 and wanted to start Cousins against Houston

Re: RG3 is back
 

[quote=tshile;1092213][B]There are people saying even if he's ready sit him because:
bye week
McCoy's performance against Dallas.[/B]

My point is - if he's ready, you play him. Until he proves he's not as good as McCoy.[/quote]

Not trying to be contentious, but who is saying that?

Re: RG3 is back
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1092215]Didn't I mention this before the Seahawks game? Maybe I only told the other mods. Yes, know this from very very very reliable sources who have known Jay Gruden for a looooooonggggggg time. He thought RG3 was not ready for week 1 and wanted to start Cousins against Houston[/quote]

yeah i dont remember this, but that kinda sux as a rookie HC to already being over ruled by Snyder. I worry about this dynamic, you got to let the HC make the decision on who to play....no matter who it is.

Thanks for the info

RG3 is back
 

Wasn't Gruden brought here specifically to develop Griffin? I don't really have a problem with someone above him twisting his arm a bit and saying hey, if he's ready you better get him back in there. Don't kid yourself and think this sort of pressure on a HC is a rare thing in the NFL.

Re: RG3 is back
 

[quote=Mattyk;1092219]Wasn't Gruden brought here specifically to develop Griffin? I don't really have a problem with someone above him twisting his arm a bit and saying hey, if he's ready you better get him back in there. Don't kid yourself and think this sort of pressure on a HC is a rare thing in the NFL.[/quote]

Like button.

And this isn't a Jay Gruden doesn't like RG3 situation. Long term he thinks/knows RG3 is the team's best QB. He just felt at the beginning of the year, after seeing him over the summer, something was quite right and he wasn't ready so he wanted to start with Cousins.

Re: RG3 is back
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1092215]Didn't I mention this before the Seahawks game? Maybe I only told the other mods. Yes, know this from very very very reliable sources who have [B]known Jay Gruden for a looooooonggggggg time.[/B] He thought RG3 was not ready for week 1 and wanted to start Cousins against Houston[/quote]

ive known my older brother almost my entire life .....

smoot, thank you for your insight. in this particular case I wish the message was on a more positive note . . . but if what you have been told is true ... unless RG3 plays well, we are screwed as a franchise and gruden experiment is already doomed.

hope RG3 plays well and makes this a non-issue.

Re: RG3 is back
 

[quote=WillH;1092216]Not trying to be contentious, but who is saying that?[/quote]

media people that claim to be fans
fans on facebook/twitter/internet in general/radio

i've seen a few people here say that they'd prefer he come back after the bye, but they don't specifically come out and say that they prefer that even if griffin is ready.

believe it or not there's a lot of people that don't like griffin, or have no faith in him. they may not admit it, but they exist. and they stupid things like colt mccoy should get the start even if griffin is ready. because they're more interested in seeing anyone other than griffin under center.

edit: i believe i've even said that i would have thought after the bye made the most sense, so Griffin got on the same page as the offense. it would give them a whole two weeks.

but that's if he needs it. if he's not ready, by all means do not play him. but if he's ready... put the kid on the field and lets go.

Re: RG3 is back
 

[quote=Mattyk;1092219]Wasn't Gruden brought here specifically to develop Griffin? I don't really have a problem with someone above him twisting his arm a bit and saying hey, if he's ready you better get him back in there. Don't kid yourself and think this sort of pressure on a HC is a rare thing in the NFL.[/quote]

I think with the injury history, experience in kinda non-pro style offense (baylor and shanny read option) and plus the struggles in the preseason I give the HC the benefit in coming up and clearly stating a plan to the FO saying "hey more time." But I could imagine the sh*t storm that woulda caused.

I do think RG3 needs to play to develop abosolutely yes, but does he need to be rushed this week? I dont think so.

I really think Snyder should be staying out of allllllll personel decisions...we know the history there and its not good.

Re: RG3 is back
 

[quote=over the mountain;1092221]ive known my older brother almost my entire life .....

smoot, thank you for your insight. in this particular case I wish the message was on a more positive note . . . but if what you have been told is true ... [B]unless RG3 plays well, we are screwed as a franchise and gruden experiment is already doomed.[/B]

hope RG3 plays well and makes this a non-issue.[/quote]
Why?

Re: RG3 is back
 

Lotta hyperbole in this thread about the supposedly dire consequences if such and such happens. I don't see it. We've been mostly bad for decades. So what would change if we were to lose at Minnesota? Not much.

In my years of observing the NFL, I have seen numerous developing QB's start every game but also have a veteran backup relieve them in some games, as necessary. If the young QB was relieved in any particular game, he still started the next week. Why can't Gruden do that with Robert and Colt? It could be a compromise among the executives.

Re: RG3 is back
 

[quote=Hog1;1092226]Why?[/quote]

if he doesnt play well this week, the headline will be that RG3 wasnt ready and was rushed = leaks that gruden didnt want him to start vs vikings = leaks that gruden didnt want him to start week 1 either = media and fans will be left to speculate for 2 weeks as to why RG3 started if the HC didnt want him to = 2013 = what skins fans have been used to for 2 decades now ...

if he plays well, no one will question the decision to start him .. thus no one will question (or care) who actually made the decision. the focus will be on an improving and healthy griffin ready to make a second half playoff push. all good things.

if he plays poorly = 2 weeks of negativity and conspiracy theories. personally i dont want to see the skeletons in our closet. ive seen them enough. tired of the drama. all not so good things.



perhaps im being a lil dramatic in connecting the dots. perhaps as a skins fan, im conditioned to think as such.

Re: RG3 is back
 

If Griffin shows that he's not ready on Sunday, it will be disastrous for the organization. Could be a franchise altering loss

Exactly but if he isnt ready in two weeks there is no second guessing atleast. We can beat the damn vikings with Colt. Just wait till after the bye it seems so effin logical.

Re: RG3 is back
 

[quote=over the mountain;1092231]if he doesnt play well this week, the headline will be that RG3 wasnt ready and was rushed = leaks that gruden didnt want him to start vs vikings = leaks that gruden didnt want him to start week 1 either = media and fans will be left to speculate for 2 weeks as to why RG3 started if the HC didnt want him to = 2013 = what skins fans have been used to for 2 decades now ...

if he plays well, no one will question the decision to start him .. thus no one will question (or care) who actually made the decision. the focus will be on an improving and healthy griffin ready to make a second half playoff push. all good things.

if he plays poorly = 2 weeks of negativity and conspiracy theories. personally i dont want to see the skeletons in our closet. ive seen them enough. tired of the drama. all not so good things.



[B]perhaps im being a lil dramatic in connecting the dots. perhaps as a skins fan, im conditioned to think as such[/B].[/quote]
Got it....

Re: RG3 is back
 

Robert can't hold on to the ball. The line can't block forever. He also can't try to always force the ball to the first option. I think that is something Colt did well.

Re: RG3 is back
 

SS, thank you for sharing your insight. I've learned a lot about the RGIII situation as well as the dynamics of the organization.

Re: RG3 is back
 

Jeebejeezus ...

RGIII has barely uttered a word, has been supportive of his teammates and backup QB's, and hasn't been making a big show of "play me coach" in the media at all (he has showed up and practiced ... ohhhhh!) - yet, the drama surrounding his return makes this a possible "franchise altering" game.

I don't doubt the truth of the statement BUT it's just sad that it is likely true.

Re: RG3 is back
 

rookie coach working with young QB who never played in system similar to his has the QB injured in game 2. Yet, six games later, after sitting out with an injury that most thought was likely season ending, the QB is expected to appear and is not allowed to have a rough first outing. Yay

<deep, deep sigh>

Re: RG3 is back
 

i am a RG3 believer and supporter.

i am speculating as to what the media will be trying to dig up if RG3 doesnt look ready.

have a good one folks

Re: RG3 is back
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1092240]rookie coach working with young QB who never played in system similar to his has the QB injured in game 2. Yet, six games later, after sitting out with an injury that most thought was likely season ending, the QB is expected to appear and is not allowed to have a rough first outing. Yay

<deep, deep sigh>[/quote]

Yeah, but its tough to ignore last year, and you know what they say about those who do not know history.

Re: RG3 is back
 

This game wont decide the fate of the franchise, but the remainder of this year certainly will.

Re: RG3 is back
 

Why are some of you making such a big deal over a disagreement between the HC and higher management over who should play? That is normal stuff in the NFL. The coach wants to win now and the GM wants to see the young players he brought in play so they can develop. The owner wants to see the player who is supposed to become the Franchise QB play. Standard stuff.

Re: RG3 is back
 

[quote=WillH;1092244]This game wont decide the fate of the franchise, but the remainder of this year certainly will.[/quote]

You have no way of knowing that.

Re: RG3 is back
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1092246]Why are some of you making such a big deal over a disagreement between the HC and higher management over who should play? That is normal stuff in the NFL. The coach wants to win now and the GM wants to see the young players he brought in play so they can develop. The owner wants to see the player who is supposed to become the Franchise QB play. Standard stuff.[/quote]

Standard for the Redskins and their organization for sure

Re: RG3 is back
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1092247]You have no way of knowing that.[/quote]

Well, I guess the way I'm looking at it is:

1. RG3 steps up his game - he and Gruden get their chance to make something happen together.

2. RG3 is Average - team flounders, but he and Gruden get another year or two to right the ship.

3. RG3 Stinks/Is injured again - ???


I mean, really, I made a stupid statement because, of course, every season decides the fate of a team to some degree or another. but the big question is RG3, and his play for the remainder of the season [U]will[/U] ultimately be a huge factor in the team's plans going forward. Again, that's kind of a given, but I guess my point was, yeah people may be putting too much emphasis on the importance of this one game, but RG3 has to show something this year and i think that is the real sentiment.

Re: RG3 is back
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1092246]Why are some of you making such a big deal over a disagreement between the HC and higher management over who should play? That is normal stuff in the NFL. The coach wants to win now and the GM wants to see the young players he brought in play so they can develop. The owner wants to see the player who is supposed to become the Franchise QB play. Standard stuff.[/quote]

Yeah maybe it is, but you don't see disagreement in Indy or Seattle do you? Ultimately, that is on RG3, because if he were playing like Luck or Wilson there would be no discussion. Still, I think all of us would feel better if there was consensus in the front office/coaching staff about the starting QB. I agree though, that this probably shouldn't be read as a "Snyder is meddling" instance.

Re: RG3 is back
 

[quote=WillH;1092250]Yeah maybe it is, but you don't see disagreement in Indy or Seattle do you? Ultimately, that is on RG3, because[B] if he were playing like Luck or Wilson there would be no discussion. [/B]Still, I think all of us would feel better if there was consensus in the front office/coaching staff about the starting QB. I agree though, that this probably shouldn't be read as a "Snyder is meddling" instance.[/quote]

He can shut everyone up.. the media, the fans, Gruden's doubts, it will all go away if he can put together a nice run here the last 8 games. Let's hope he does that. My thinking is he's going to struggle.

Re: RG3 is back
 

[quote=WillH;1092249]Well, I guess the way I'm looking at it is:

1. RG3 steps up his game - he and Gruden get their chance to make something happen together.

2. RG3 is Average - team flounders, but he and Gruden get another year or two to right the ship.

3. [B]RG3 Stinks/Is injured again - ???[/B]


I mean, really, I made a stupid statement because, of course, every season decides the fate of a team to some degree or another. but the big question is RG3, and his play for the remainder of the season [U]will[/U] ultimately be a huge factor in the team's plans going forward. Again, that's kind of a given, but I guess my point was, yeah people may be putting too much emphasis on the importance of this one game, but RG3 has to show something this year and i think that is the real sentiment.[/quote]

A) RGIII is injured badly again: how many serious injuries can one guy take? This depends on the nature of the injury, of course.

B) RGIII stinks: he loses confidence. His game therefore goes downhill. Team starts to doubt him, too. Synergystic spiral down in which RGIII never reaches his full potential due to lack of confidence.

I'm not saying these things will happen - heaven forbid - but I am filling in your "???"

Re: RG3 is back
 

He needs to play, to see if he can stay healthy. If he can't stay healthy, its the same as being a bust.

Re: RG3 is back
 

RGIII will never be AVERAGE!.. He is a world class athlete who has to stay healthy to become great..if he does he will be everything the Skins thought .. Colt is a good backup who can come in when needed..nothing more nothing less..Cousins is gone ..he can't beat out Colt..no way we beat dallas with cousins..from what I saw monday night if the Skins bring that game to minnesota they will blow out the vikings..RGIII should start and play smart ..if he struggles you can go to Colt.

Re: RG3 is back
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1092239][B][SIZE=5]Jeebejeezus .[/SIZE][/B]..

RGIII has barely uttered a word, has been supportive of his teammates and backup QB's, and hasn't been making a big show of "play me coach" in the media at all (he has showed up and practiced ... ohhhhh!) - yet, the drama surrounding his return makes this a possible "franchise altering" game.

I don't doubt the truth of the statement BUT it's just sad that it is likely true.[/quote]
When I read a Jeebeejeesuz from Joe OMG.
Season altering actions may ensue....

Re: RG3 is back
 

[quote=Chico23231;1092243]Yeah, but its tough to ignore last year, and you know what they say about those who do not know history.[/quote]

They went to public schools?

Re: RG3 is back
 

Watching a short clip of practice with Robert today. NOBODY runs the R/O like him.
Can't wait til' Sunday