Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1094436]Foerster hasn't done a good job developing our young OL, we currently have 3 3rd rounders collecting dust. Lauvao, Chester and Compton need to be replaced. In addition to Haslett being replaced, so does Foerster.[/quote]

There is no fucking excuse in the world Chester was brought back, likewise with Bowen on the other side. These guys are clear waste of money and our cap space.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1094421]Not like we were stocking up on OL in the first two rounds before that though[/quote]

And I will say, the hogs were not a group of first round draft picks when bobby Beathard brought them to Washington. But, he was Bobby freakin' Beathard. The man was legend at finding those great late rounders and free agents. So I understand great offensive linemen aren't always in the first or even second rounds, but the 'skins talent evaluators have to be good enough to recognize where and when to find them. And they have not been successful at those mid to late rounders in terms of the offensive line.

It also has something to do with coaching as well. Some coaches can "coach 'em up" and turn an average linemen into a solid guy, but I haven't seen that so far in recent years. Buges - I thought he did OK with what he had here at last.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=skinsguy;1094446]And I will say, the hogs were not a group of first round draft picks when bobby Beathard brought them to Washington. But, he was Bobby freakin' Beathard. The man was legend at finding those great late rounders and free agents. So I understand great offensive linemen aren't always in the first or even second rounds, but the 'skins talent evaluators have to be good enough to recognize where and when to find them. And they have not been successful at those mid to late rounders in terms of the offensive line.

It also has something to do with coaching as well. Some coaches can "coach 'em up" and turn an average linemen into a solid guy, but I haven't seen that so far in recent years. Buges - I thought he did OK with what he had here at last.[/quote]

Beathard probably had as many garbage picks as gems. But he gave himself many opportunities to find those gems, which maybe is the key

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=skinsguy;1094443]I mean they're putting everything else first before solidifying the offensive line. In my opinion, the offensive line should be top priority. If it isn't top, first, priority, than anything you do to invest in those skilled positions will be wasted talent. We are seeing this right now. If that isn't true, then the Redskins should be putting up no less than 35 points a ball game with the talent they have at skilled positions on offense. But they're not consistently successful on offense because the protection is shotty.

So, yeah, I think they're drafting the wrong linemen - especially if those draftees can't get off the practice squad without some catastrophe that forces them into the lineup. Outside of Williams, none of those guys have proven to be solid in both run blocking AND pass protection. It's always either/or, or neither. Which means the offense will continue to struggle - which means the defense will have to play more short fields, which leads to more points allowed and fewer scored. That's a recipe for losing.

So yeah, 3 great offensive linemen in 15 years. I'd say the offensive line has most definitely been ignored.[/quote]

Really good post. As much as I hate the Cowboys you have to give Jones and Co a lot of credit for building a badass oline the last few years, and it's working.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

Romo likes to hold onto the ball, but he is good at moving out of the pocket. The line really really sucks, but like Griff said its a team effort. Morgan Moses was maybe a good pick, but he needs alot of development, something we dont do well.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1094449]Beathard probably had as many garbage picks as gems. But he gave himself many opportunities to find those gems, which maybe is the key[/quote]

He sure did. Anyone remember Tory Nixon?

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1094437]1 of 2 things is happening in my opinion. 1) Our scouts/personnel guys are bringing home a bunch of spoiled food or 2) Our coaches don't know how to cook[/quote]

I am going with a large dose of No.1 and a sprinkling of No.2. I blame scouting/personnel b/c I think the Forrester and Gruden are solid coaches. Are they stellar, Forrester, no. Gruden, it's year 1 but he has been very successful in all past stops.

I always thought scouting was a strength. Wasn't one of the knocks on Shanny - by Allen - that he overruled the scouts? Was it just a case of the blind leading the blind??

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1094449]Beathard probably had as many garbage picks as gems. But he gave himself many opportunities to find those gems, which maybe is the key[/quote]

And maybe it could be, simply, that the front office just hasn't given themselves enough opportunity (because of cap space, cap penalties, lack of high round picks) to find those gems as well. I'd love to think it's simply a lack of opportunity - but I think it's more than just a lack of opportunity.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=skinsguy;1094443][B]I mean they're putting everything else first before solidifying the offensive line. In my opinion, the offensive line should be top priority.[/B] If it isn't top, first, priority, than anything you do to invest in those skilled positions will be wasted talent. We are seeing this right now. If that isn't true, then the Redskins should be putting up no less than 35 points a ball game with the talent they have at skilled positions on offense. But they're not consistently successful on offense because the protection is shotty.

So, yeah, I think they're drafting the wrong linemen - especially if those draftees can't get off the practice squad without some catastrophe that forces them into the lineup. Outside of Williams, none of those guys have proven to be solid in both run blocking AND pass protection. It's always either/or, or neither. Which means the offense will continue to struggle - which means the defense will have to play more short fields, which leads to more points allowed and fewer scored. That's a recipe for losing.

So yeah, 3 great offensive linemen in 15 years. I'd say the offensive line has most definitely been ignored.[/quote]

Well they brought in a new left guard, they drafted two guys, Chester is another FA, to me I think they're trying. It's just that the people they're bringing in aren't any good. Long doesn't even dress so that should tell you something right there.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1094445]There is no fucking excuse in the world Chester was brought back, likewise with Bowen on the other side. These guys are clear waste of money and our cap space.[/quote]

This. Allen's personnel moves have failed more often than not, all the way around.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

Let's be honest -- this team has enough talent to do better than it has, and so the coaching staff is far from blameless here. Don't get me wrong -- we're not a playoff team (far from it), but we're certainly good enough to beat the Bucs and Vikings, which makes us a .500 team. Nothing is a given.

I like Gruden a lot -- he's a straight shooter, and he seems likeable enough. But this team came offa bye and was flat against a 1-8 team at home, and that's unacceptable. I was of the view that how the team bounced back after the bye and the loss to Minn. would say a lot about the organization -- coaching staff and players. And sadly, it probably did. I hope that Gruden can be successful here, but the jury's obviously out on that.

Clearly, we haven't been getting nearly enough talent on the lines, and games are won in the trenches. On our O line, only Trent and Kory are worth keeping (putting aside the question of who is starting caliber), and 2/5 of a line isn't going to win many games. On our D line, only Hatcher and Cofield are worth keeping -- Baker, Jenkins, Bowen and the rest haven't shown much of anything (I might make the exception for Kearse, and I keep wondering why he isn't getting more time at the expense of the three I just named; he's at least showing some real effort out there whereas the other three are invisible).

Our safety situation is atricious, and has been since 2007 (man do I miss Taylor). That's a long time to go without a single quality starter for that position. Our CBs are improving but young and will make mistakes. If DHall can return healthy, I wonder whether we move him to FS and keep our youngsters at CB -- that would help a good deal.

Haslett seems utterly lost -- a LB covering the guy who has been torching you all day -- really? I never played football at any level beyond the sandlot, but damn, man, I know better. Inexcusable. In two games, your D has given up 29 points to the hapless Vikings and 27 points (really, 20) to the equally hapless Bucs. What do you think a good offensive team like the Colts will do to us right now? The next two weeks could involve losses in the neighborhood of 42-10. Honestly, if Haslett were to be fired today, I cannot say I would be concerned -- even though I tend to think that mid-season firings tend not to do much. But he seems so ineffectual with adjustments and scheming, I don't know how much worse it could get.

I am curious about the blame being placed on Snyder's shoulders. Unlike the early years, I don't get the sense that he's personally involving himself (I concede aI have no visibuility into this, and so I could be wrong). And there are some teams that had respected owners (Ralph Wilson and the Bills come to mind) that haven't been good in a long time. I am not sure how much of this belongs to Snyder, although one could say that the GM decisions he's made are obviously problematic (Cerrato is a dope, and Allen has been at best inconsistent). But he's hired Schottenheimer, Gibbs and Shannahan, and so it isn't like he always goes with unproven guys all the time and those risks didn't pan out.

The run game is puzlling to me -- it was clicking yesterday, and our run D was stout. Why aren't we pounding it more? Alfmo seems like the only one who really came to play yesterday (except for Tress "I Did It My" Way. Sad when your punter is your MVP.

Honestly, this franchise needs to hit the re-set button. I thought that this year might mark a departure from the crap that the Shannahan regime had devolved to become, but it's really not brought much different. There are a number of coaches anmd players that need to go. This ought to be a busy off-season.

Prove me wrong, Redskins. Beat SF. Beat Indy. Show some heart for a change.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

Here is a depressing read in the Washington Post.

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2014/11/17/what-it-was-like-in-the-stands-during-the-redskins-loss-to-tampa-bay/"]In the stands[/URL]

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=Hijinx;1094459]Here is a depressing read in the Washington Post.

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2014/11/17/what-it-was-like-in-the-stands-during-the-redskins-loss-to-tampa-bay/"]In the stands[/URL][/quote]

seems like the bottom.

Your able to score $10 tickets to the game? That is absoluting depressing. I still wouldnt pay

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=Hijinx;1094459]Here is a depressing read in the Washington Post.

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2014/11/17/what-it-was-like-in-the-stands-during-the-redskins-loss-to-tampa-bay/"]In the stands[/URL][/quote]

Ugh -- that may be the most depressing thing I have ever read about this team. And THAT is saying something.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

This is likewise very depressing: [url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2014/11/17/misery-loves-company-the-10-worst-redskins-losses-of-the-daniel-snyder-era/]Misery loves company: The 10 worst Redskins losses of the Daniel Snyder Era - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1094431]Good points from Keim:

[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/13012/second-thoughts-redskins-bucs?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed]Second thoughts: Washington Redskins-Tampa Bay Buccaneers - ESPN[/url][/quote]

[quote]There is a lot that I still like about Griffin’s game, too. But he has to show real progress. I’ve written this before, but [B]the Redskins have made themselves overly dependent on a quarterback. Other teams could withstand growing pains by young quarterbacks because of how the roster was constructed. Not here.[/B][/quote]

Boom.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1094453]He sure did. Anyone remember Tory Nixon?[/quote]

Good memory with Tory Nixon. And Beathard missed on many others. But, as SS indicated, he tended to hold on to draft picks and trade back, thus giving himself more chances for hits. Darth Hoody does the same in New England.

We don't develop our draft picks. Coaching failures.

Plus we traded three #1's and a #2 for a QB who lacks a clock in his head.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

Look, we're fans of a shitty team. We need to get used to it and start facing seasons the way cubs fans do or Redsox fans used to. We're bums. One day something may change. But it aint going to be any time soon. Get used to it. Don't take it so hard. Take a deep breath. It lowers the blood pressure.

(PS I, myself, am unable to take this advice, and so I continue to suffer with this team. But maybe some of y'all can do better!)

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=calia;1094462]This is likewise very depressing: [url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2014/11/17/misery-loves-company-the-10-worst-redskins-losses-of-the-daniel-snyder-era/]Misery loves company: The 10 worst Redskins losses of the Daniel Snyder Era - The Washington Post[/url][/quote]

God that Eagles game, I had blocked that out. That when I really knew that this organization has a shitty FO and owner. You give a 5 year extension to a washed up has been, mid season after being robbed by Albert Haynesworth in the offseason. That just shows you don't know what the hell you are doing.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=Hijinx;1094483]God that Eagles game, I had blocked that out. That when I really knew that this organization has a shitty FO and owner. You give a 5 year extension to a washed up has been, mid season after being robbed by Albert Haynesworth in the offseason. That just shows you don't know what the hell you are doing.[/quote]

Yeah, I forget who #99 was for us that season, but I remember upon seeing that replay that I wish he purposefully stomped on Fat Albert as he was running past his ponderous, useless bulk as he ran past to continue the play.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[URL="http://instagram.com/p/vgJr0buNoA/"]From DeSean Jackson's Instagram[/URL]

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1094453]He sure did. Anyone remember Tory Nixon?[/quote]

[url=http://articles.latimes.com/1985-11-03/sports/sp-4092_1_tory-nixon]Nixon Gets a Second Chance With 49ers : Cornerback Was Top Pick of Redskins, but He Didn't Measure Up - Los Angeles Times[/url]

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1094352]The one person who played with heart and had a great game yesterday, Alfmo, will be one person who will be let go or phased out.

Thats how this organization works, we let go of decent talent and focus on guys we will never win with.

Im fucking sick of this organization especially from a front office, management and coaching standpoint.

WE CANT FUCKING DEVELOP OUR TALENT. SOMEONE IN THE FRONT OFFICE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS!!!!!

Im tired of talking about our players, sure we lack talent in some areas, BUT EVERY TEAM DOES![/quote]

It all starts with the owner man. Everything comes from the top down. Brian Mitchell is right, until fans stop going to games, buying jerseys, and putting up with the constant bread and circuses under Daniel Snyder, it's going to be the same damn thing year after year after year.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1094437]1 of 2 things is happening in my opinion. 1) Our scouts/personnel guys are bringing home a bunch of spoiled food or 2) Our coaches don't know how to cook[/quote]

I think the best way to answer that question is to look at the amount of coaching changes we've had and compare that to the number of scout personnel changes we've had.

I don't know the figures but I DO know we've had a LOT of coaches here, who did very well in other organizations (Shannahan, Schottenheimer, etc.)

Unless these coaches throw out their previous experience when they get here I can't blame them. Like we've all stated before, It's starts at the top with the owner and upper management putting the right pieces in place (which I don't believe they are) and then translates to the coach and staff, which in turn trickles down to the players.

So forget the players. We need to clean up this office and I DONT mean adding ANOTHER "talent evaluator." Clean out the useless jobs we have (Can anyone explain what Greg Williams does?) that are only adding more dumb opinions and undermining our true GM (which we currently don't have) and put in some real football knowledgable personnel.

PLEASE!

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

I went to the game, expecting us to win big, don't ask me why... And the only thing I was proud of was getting my section to join me in booing...

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1094493][url=http://articles.latimes.com/1985-11-03/sports/sp-4092_1_tory-nixon]Nixon Gets a Second Chance With 49ers : Cornerback Was Top Pick of Redskins, but He Didn't Measure Up - Los Angeles Times[/url][/quote]

Lasted with the Niners long enough to get a Super Bowl ring (1988). Now the head of a bank in California.

[url]https://www.calbanktrust.com/about-us/news-and-press/california-bank-trust-appoints-25-year-banking-veteran-tory-nixon-to-head-northern-california-division[/url]

The more you know.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=Fiversons;1094506]I went to the game, expecting us to win big, don't ask me why... And the only thing I was proud of was getting my section to join me in booing...[/quote]

Anyone showing up with bags over their heads yet? I think that's how you measure who's really at the bottom of the barrel in this league

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=sevier2;1094504]I think the best way to answer that question is to look at the amount of coaching changes we've had and compare that to the number of scout personnel changes we've had.

I don't know the figures but I DO know we've had a LOT of coaches here, who did very well in other organizations (Shannahan, Schottenheimer, etc.)

Unless these coaches throw out their previous experience when they get here I can't blame them. Like we've all stated before, It's starts at the top with the owner and upper management putting the right pieces in place (which I don't believe they are) and then translates to the coach and staff, which in turn trickles down to the players.

So forget the players. We need to clean up this office and I DONT mean adding ANOTHER "talent evaluator." Clean out the useless jobs we have (Can anyone explain what Greg Williams does?) that are only adding more dumb opinions and undermining our true GM (which we currently don't have) and put in some real football knowledgable personnel.

PLEASE![/quote]

Greg Williams?

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1094510]Greg Williams?[/quote]

:doh: Doug. Doug Williams is what I meant. I was lost in the heat of the moment.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

This blows....

[url=http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/46210/Redskins-OLB-Trent-Murphy--LT-Trent-Williams-injured-Sunday/Default.aspx]Redskins OLB Trent Murphy, LT Trent Williams injured Sunday[/url]

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

We made the front page of cbssports.com today and here is the article:

The Redskins had two weeks to prepare for the one-win Buccaneers. When it was over (perhaps predictably, in retrospect), Tampa Bay left FedEx Field with its second win of the season and Washington was again left to wonder where it all went wrong.

For former Redskins player Brian Mitchell, who now has the depressing duty of covering the team for CSN Washington, it was too much. Here's how his postgame rant began (via Sports Bog):

"Embarrassing. This is atrocious. It's despicable. It's pathetic. I think it's asinine. As we look at this football game and this football team -- and it's not just Robert, OK, I want fans out there to stop blaming just the quarterback. The defense was atrocious, the offensive line was terrible, dropping balls, throwing balls to people. Everybody had a part in this. There are players that, they can't play themselves into the right position. We sit here every week and we want to blame that one guy. Yes, they gave up a lot for him, but from coaching, to decision-makers, to players, everybody is playing a part. ...

"I see a lot of players blaming media and everybody else, and running around as if they've won the damn Super Bowl somewhere. This team has sucked over the last few years, OK? And as a former player, I'm embarrassed to watch this junk, over and over again. And yes, I come on this air and I have to try and be professional and not say what -- I wish, let the FCC tell me today, 'Say what the hell you want to say, Brian.' And I will call out names and tell them exactly what I feel. Because a lot of guys who want to be big time and talking about what they think and what the media shouldn't be doing, play some damn football. You sucked on the field today, and you know who you are. I don't have to say their names. You know who you are."

Meanwhile, NBC Sports NFL analyst Rodney Harrison thinks it's time to pull the plug on the Robert Griffin III experiment.

"He's been in the league three years," Harrison said. "If you need six more games to determine if he's going to be your future quarterback, you need a new coach and a new scouting department. I've seen enough. I don't think he fits in the system. I think you have to get rid of him. ...

"They've surrounded [Griffin] with great weapons," he continued. "I just think it comes down to RGIII. I don't think he can read coverages. The offensive line is really bad. Defensively they gave up a lot of plays. They have a lot of issues on this team."

On this we can all agree.

But former Redskins cornerback Shawn Springs thinks Griffin will remain the team's starter in 2015. Not so much because he's earned it, but because that's the way owner Dan Snyder wants it.

After conceding that both Colt McCoy and Kirk Cousins would have scored more than seven points and taken fewer than six sacks against the Bucs, Springs got to the truth of the matter, at least as he sees it.

"Snyder's gonna make sure (RG3's) the starting quarterback," he told 106.7 The Fan. "You have no choice. You have no choice. That move would set the franchise back like 10 years. You gave up three first-rounders. ... You have to live with that. You married your wife and she was skinny, then all of a sudden she gained 50 pounds. You've got to work with her a little bit, you know? How about the line; can you go get some people to protect him?"

So yeah, it's business as usual for the Redskins Traveling Circus.

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote]After conceding that both Colt McCoy and Kirk Cousins would have scored more than seven points and taken fewer than six sacks against the Bucs, Springs got to the truth of the matter, at least as he sees it.[/quote]

Colt maybe

Cousins though would have thrown like 3 more interceptions

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=sevier2;1094515]:doh: Doug. Doug Williams is what I meant. I was lost in the heat of the moment.[/quote]

Next General Manager/Lackey in training

Currently, assists in all personnel matters primarily trades/free agents

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1094649]Next General Manager/[B]Lackey[/B] in training

Currently, assists in all personnel matters primarily trades/free agents[/quote]

why? thats terrible


you right lackey...*sigh* same ole redskins.


Is this the reason you said your worried about the direction of the organization?

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1094649]Next General Manager/Lackey in training

Currently, assists in all personnel matters primarily trades/free agents[/quote]

Pardon me for saying so, but am I the only one who has the impression that Doug Williams is dumber than dirt?

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1094649]Next General Manager/[B]Lackey in training[/B]

Currently, assists in all personnel matters primarily trades/free agents[/quote]

Lackey to whom? BA? DS?

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1094656]Pardon me for saying so, but am I the only one who has the impression that Doug Williams is dumber than dirt?[/quote]

I wouldn't say that

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=Lotus;1094659]Lackey to whom? BA? DS?[/quote]

Matty

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1094667]Matty[/quote]

lmao

Re: Bucs Postgame Thread
 

While there has been a lot of deserved dumping on RG3, the fact is we have the worst line in the NFL. 3 of the 5 do not even belong in the NFL. I can understand a bit why RG3 is jumpy. He usually has only about 2 second before some guy from the other team is ready to kill him. Ok, possibly Moses could develop into a RT. But the guards are the worst in the league. The only function Polumbus used to serve was to distract people from how bad Chester is. At a minimum, we need to NFL caliber guards for next year.