Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=irish;1098576]Bruce Allen is the king of the yes men.[/quote]

So you know that for a fact?

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1098575][B]So was Shanahan a yes man? Is Bruce Allen?[/B]

I know it is stupid for me to think that Snyder hasn't had a say on team decisions, but I think these two guys have been running things since Zorn was canned. If anything, Snyder is guilty of making bad hires.[/quote]

Apparently they both were yes men with the Snyder-driven RGIII trade.

It seems that Snyder doesn't meddle much, but when he does, he meddles both big-time and disastrously.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Bucket;1098572]Heard Michigan reached out to Jay Gruden for a job.[/quote]

Like present time or in the past?

Jay might be better suited in college, but may also not be HC material outside the arena world.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=saden1;1098577]The real problem is why give an unproven coach a 5 year 25 mill contract? It's not like Gruden was the toast of the NFL and everyone wanted to hire.[/quote]

They just fired the proven coach to give the unproven coach his chance. They have tried every type of coach (new, old, proven, unproven, college...) and none has worked. Other than for a nice payday why would any coach want to come to this cluster F of an organization?

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1098578]So you know that for a fact?[/quote]

Its obvious.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=saden1;1098577]The real problem is why give an unproven coach a 5 year 25 mill contract? It's not like Gruden was the toast of the NFL and everyone wanted to hire.[/quote]

True. Especially because we were one of the last teams with a vacancy. We had the leverage at that point.

But hey I found another positive. Since it doesn't look like Griffin is worthy of that $15M a year contract we all thought he'd get, imagine the cap space we have available to make improvements.

Now if only our owner could manage to find a competent football boss to identify the players to take that money.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1098522]I'm trying to put myself in that position and if my head coach comes to me and says he's benching the starting QB, and gives me legit reasons, I'm backing my coach. I'm not going to sit in the film room with the coach and go over missed wr's, incorrect drops, throwing late, taking sacks and on and on and on. Especially since Snyder isn't qualified to even be in a film room.[/quote]

So you're going to back your rookie coach who wants to sit the player that you hired him to develop after that player plays less than half a season - and do it without even looking more closely into the matter? P-u-l-e-e-e-z-e!

Gruden: "I'm gonna bench RGIII."

skinsfan69: "OK. Thanks for letting me know. Have a nice day!"

Yeah, like that would almost happen.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1098580]Like present time or in the past?

Jay might be better suited in college, but may also not be HC material outside the arena world.[/quote]

Present

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=irish;1098581]They just fired the proven coach to give the unproven coach his chance. They have tried every type of coach (new, old, proven, unproven, college...) and none has worked. Other than for a nice payday why would any coach want to come to this cluster F of an organization?[/quote]

No proven or highly sought after coach would... In fact, most of them would already have us crossed out when the process starts...

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Fiversons;1098589]No proven or highly sought after coach would... In fact, most of them would already have us crossed out when the process starts...[/quote]

That is exactly what many people said on several occasions right before Snyder hired a big-name coach.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1098584]So you're going to back your rookie coach who wants to sit the player that you hired him to develop after that player plays less than half a season - and do it without even looking more closely into the matter? P-u-l-e-e-e-z-e!

Gruden: "I'm gonna bench RGIII."

skinsfan69: "OK. Thanks for letting me know. Have a nice day!"

Yeah, like that would almost happen.[/quote]


haha, it may not quite go like that but there really is no need for an owner to be watching film. Gruden is the person that's MOST qualified over at Redskins Park to make decisions on the QB. Not Dan Snyder. This is all about Snyder's ego.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1098591]That is exactly what many people said on several occasions right before Snyder hired a big-name coach.[/quote]

He has hired one, Mike... Mike was also given complete player control... Worked out well...

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Fiversons;1098593]He has hired one, Mike... Mike was also given complete player control... Worked out well...[/quote]

Schottenheimer, Spurrier, and Gibbs.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1098594]Schottenheimer, Spurrier, and Gibbs.[/quote]

Gibbs doesn't count, the others were before people realized he sucks as an owner... Look, I don't really care, but if you think highly sought after coaches have Washington pegged as one of their top choices, then you don't live on planet earth...

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Fiversons;1098593]He has hired one, Mike... Mike was also given complete player control... Worked out well...[/quote]
[quote=KI Skins Fan;1098594]Schottenheimer, Spurrier, and Gibbs.[/quote]
Yeah, Shanahan might have been the anomaly, in being allowed to keep control as long as he was here.

Schottenheimer - perfect example of Snyder's meddling. Snyder fired him after only one season, specifically for not giving up total control of the team. Schotty had a win streak to end the season, with JAG (Tony Banks?) at QB.

Spurrier - Just told Cerrato, "get me players". Was totally fine with getting Matthews or Woeful(sp?) because they were "cheap and available". Spurrier may not even have been aware when one player was cut. [URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/23/sports/pro-football-redskins-slipping-away-from-spurrier.html"]LINK[/URL]

Gibbs - Was said to have been given complete control. And it's hard to imagine Snyder, reportedly an avid Skins fan, ever challenging the only coach to bring us SB rings. Yet there's quotes like these floating out there:

[URL="http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/4651/quick-takes-coaching-under-snyder"]Joe Gibbs was a master at this. You could see it during his four seasons, how he massaged Snyder and Vinny Cerrato’s egos during news conferences, etc. Made them feel like they were giving invaluable input all the time. Gibbs also knew when to let Snyder “win;” in other words, he knew when to pick his battles. Gibbs also knew Snyder idolized him. Who didn't?
As one person from that staff once said, “That way, when it came time to [/URL]pick his fights with Dan, he’d get what he wanted. He managed Dan well.”

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/daniel-snyder-washington-redskins-owner-still-struggles-to-find-formula-for-success/2014/01/04/5d86bfa4-74a4-11e3-bc6b-712d770c3715_story.html"]A former member of the Redskins’ personnel department said Snyder’s involvement with the football operation typically outmatches his football expertise.“He can’t ever get it right because he wants to be involved in it all,” he said. “He wants to have input in everything.”[/URL]

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/post/dan-snyder-joe-gibbs-and-being-hands-off/2011/06/03/AGi1ryHH_blog.html"]Except this is what Gibbs said at the time. Like, from April, 2007:

“The three of us [Gibbs, Snyder and Cerrato] normally at the end of it try and come up with a final game plan for the draft....Dan’s philosophy is to be aggressive. We fall in the category of being more aggressive and it’s based on Dan being as aggressive as he is.”

Or this, from September, 2006:

“We talk a lot. We are back and forth all the time. We work down the hall from one another. I count on his opinion. He’s very instrumental on the draft, the salary-cap, free agency, strategy on how the team should be built.”

Or this from the Virginian-Pilot in April, 2007, about draft prep:

The highest-rated players are brought in for meetings with owner Dan Snyder, Gibbs and other organization members. A meal is arranged as a final effort to find any nugget of new information....Snyder, Gibbs and Cerrato also will meet during this period to review how well certain prospects might fit in the organization.

Or this, from the AP in 2007:

Gibbs is holding several days of talks with owner Dan Snyder about the direction of the team. The coach said he’s “willing to talk about anything,” but he called “incorrect” any assumptions that he was open to hiring a general manager or that he would change the team’s aggressive approach in making offseason moves.

Or this from the Washington Times in 2007, which reported that Snyder had attended two draft workouts, including that of Calvin Johnson:

“[Johnson’s workout] was really impressive,” Snyder said. “We’ve had dinner with 25 of the first-round picks, and we tried to cover as much ground as we could in a limited amount of time.”

So, at the risk of being obsessed, let me point out that during the Gibbs Era, there was no meddling and nobody talked to Dan Snyder about football and all he did was sign the checks, and also the draft strategy was based on his philosophy and he was instrumental in shaping the team’s free agency approach and he met with draft prospects and watched their workouts.

Got it.[/URL]

I think the last stuff, is stuff that Shanahan complained about Snyder doing with RG3 and RG2, isn't it?

I would appreciate ppl like Smootsmack and Matty telling me where this stuff and the stuff I'm saying about it is wrong or exaggerated. If they disagree with me, I'm probably wrong. Stuff can get twisted in any news media genre.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

great job putting together that post hail green.

shanny was responsible for the bubble? i always gave credit to the DS for finally opening his wallet for something he cant charge others for ...

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1098592]haha, it may not quite go like that but there really is no need for an owner to be watching film. Gruden is the person that's MOST qualified over at Redskins Park to make decisions on the QB. Not Dan Snyder. This is all about Snyder's ego.[/quote]

I'm sure it also has to do with the ton of money the team is invested in RG3.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1098592]haha, it may not quite go like that but there really is no need for an owner to be watching film. Gruden is the person that's MOST qualified over at Redskins Park to make decisions on the QB. Not Dan Snyder. This is all about Snyder's ego.[/quote]

People say Snyder is not a football person, but he has been an owner of the Redskins since 1999. I'm sure he has learned how to look at film and understand what he looking at. 15 years is a career in other businesses.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

I think Snyder first wants to make money. Wins don't necessarily equate to more dollars.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=mredskins;1098612]I think Snyder first wants to make money. Wins don't necessarily equate to more dollars.[/quote]

Eh?

Wins put butts in seats, home playoff games are big revenue. Wins are the ultimate money maker in this league.

Snyder doesn't need to spend what he does. If all he cared about the was bottom line he's not doing it right.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;1098610]People say Snyder is not a football person, but he has been an owner of the Redskins since 1999. I'm sure he has learned how to look at film and understand what he looking at. 15 years is a career in other businesses.[/quote]

I'd just add ultimately it's his team, his money. If he wants to sit down with his first year HC and say tell me what you're seeing in RG3 so be it. I don't see why that's so crazy.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

Comparison between Jones and ds Is a joke. Jerry has won 3 rings and he at least has his team 500 every yr

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

Snyder wants to win, it yields more $ than losing for one thing. If he loses long enough the franchise could be at risk for getting moved even.

RG shouldn't be the scapegoat for Gruden's lack of prep and focus. The whole offense has been poorly prepared and undisciplined the whole season, regardless of QB. That's on the HC, no other way to look at it.

Gruden has failed in both areas, specifically with coaching up RG, and broadly with the whole offense looking like it never saw a practice field.

I don't know how anyone is defending him at this point.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1098615]Comparison between Jones and ds Is a joke. Jerry has won 3 rings and he at least has his team 500 every yr[/quote]

If you're referring to my post, I only brought up Jerry Jones as an example of an owner who truly runs his team.

Although, if you've read some recent articles/interviews about Jerry Jones, he doesn't feel those SB wins were "his" wins (crazy, I know). And the reason why he won't give up control of the team, is because he wants to win a ring "his" way.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1098616]Snyder wants to win, it yields more $ than losing for one thing. If he loses long enough the franchise could be at risk for getting moved even.

RG shouldn't be the scapegoat for Gruden's lack of prep and focus. The whole offense has been poorly prepared and undisciplined the whole season, regardless of QB. That's on the HC, no other way to look at it.

Gruden has failed in both areas, specifically with coaching up RG, and broadly with the whole offense looking like it never saw a practice field.

I don't know how anyone is defending him at this point.[/quote]

Funny how we didn't hear Gruden rip McCoy a new one after that shit show yesterday.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

No i wasn't bro I was js he's a better football guy than ds.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1098618]Funny how we didn't hear Gruden rip McCoy a new one after that shit show yesterday.[/quote]

I didn't think of that, yeah what the hell?

[url]http://finance.yahoo.com/news/robert-griffin-iii-hits-rock-194600165.html[/url]


Jesus Mary and Joseph this is just sad. The kid doesn't deserve to be crapped on anymore. He's kept his nose clean. Worked hard to come back from brutal injuries. He's been tough as nails.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2014/12/08/london-fletcher-says-the-redskins-gave-up-on-robert-griffin-iii-too-soon/]London Fletcher says the Redskins gave up on Robert Griffin III too soon - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=jamf;1098439]Why cut RG3? Let the new head coach decide what to do with him.[/quote]

I can't think of any starting NFL QB who has been benched by two different NFL Head Coaches. If he survives to see a third coach, and is benched again - we will have had to make history because there is no one out there i know of at any position who has been benched three times by three different HC's....

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1098620]I didn't think of that, yeah what the hell?

[url]http://finance.yahoo.com/news/robert-griffin-iii-hits-rock-194600165.html[/url]


Jesus Mary and Joseph this is just sad. The kid doesn't deserve to be crapped on anymore. He's kept his nose clean. Worked hard to come back from brutal injuries. He's been tough as nails.[/quote]

It's sad but the dude has had a huge enormous ego until this season. Am I glad to see him alienated? Hell no. But if it means he's gonna shut up and practice and try to up his game, then hell yeah, punt that ball around all by your lonesome. Maybe this is what he needed. Sometimes you've gotta be torn down to be able to be built up higher.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1098622]I can't think of any starting NFL QB who has been benched by two different NFL Head Coaches. If he survives to see a third coach, and is benched again - we will have had to make history because there is no one out there i know of at any position who has been benched three times by three different HC's....[/quote]

Would Michael Vick fall into that category?

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Darrell_Green_28;1098628]Would Michael Vick fall into that category?[/quote]

I don't think so, because we are talking "starting" QB. But you sort of have a point. Here's how i figure:

Michael Vick in Atlanta : starting QB up until his prison time.

Michael Vick in Philly: Backup turned starter. Was not benched for poor performance, benched for injury reasons...

Vick in NY: Signed as backup - started eventually, got injured....

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

More surprising then the Robert public beating is the closet Jay put Kirk. Honestly sans the interceptions I think he ran the offense best this year. Did Kirk screw Jay's wife or something?

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk;1098614]I'd just add ultimately it's his team, his money. If he wants to sit down with his first year HC and say tell me what you're seeing in RG3 so be it. I don't see why that's so crazy.[/QUOTE]



I think a smart man would say " I've screwed this organization up royally. I'm going to leave football stuff to the professionals".

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=mredskins;1098630]More surprising then the Robert public beating is the closet Jay put Kirk. Honestly sans the interceptions I think he ran the offense best this year. Did Kirk screw Jay's wife or something?[/quote]

lmao Kirk turned into basement baby, locked away and never heard from again. But we didn't mortgage the farm for Kirk so I guess people are kinda like, "eh, our backup sucks. Whatever"

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;1098632]lmao Kirk turned into basement baby, locked away and never heard from again. But we didn't mortgage the farm for Kirk so I guess people are kinda like, "eh, our backup sucks. Whatever"[/quote]

Lol. He is like Zelda in Pet Cemetery.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1098622]I can't think of any starting NFL QB who has been benched by two different NFL Head Coaches. If he survives to see a third coach, and is benched again - we will have had to make history because there is no one out there i know of at any position who has been benched three times by three different HC's....[/quote]

How many teams have 3 different coaches in 3 years?

You can blame RG3 for as much as you want but this team is a shit show.
All of our QBs have been benched.
Most of our players are having some of the worst seasons in their careers.
Guys are constantly making the same mistakes.

Someone needs to figure out who is coachable and who needs to get cut.
Someone needs to figure out who is going to take responsibility for coaching those players.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1098629]I don't think so, because we are talking "starting" QB. But you sort of have a point. Here's how i figure:

Michael Vick in Atlanta : starting QB up until his prison time.

Michael Vick in Philly: Backup turned starter. Was not benched for poor performance, benched for injury reasons...

Vick in NY: Signed as backup - started eventually, got injured....[/quote]
What about Jason Campbell?
Patrick Ramsey
Gus Frerotte
all benched here and started elsewhere just to get benched.
Hell, campbell did the trifecta and did it for 3 teams!

Those injury excuses you make for Vick, are you making them for RG3?

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;1098627]It's sad but the dude has had a huge enormous ego until this season. Am I glad to see him alienated? Hell no. But if it means he's gonna shut up and practice and try to up his game, then hell yeah, punt that ball around all by your lonesome. Maybe this is what he needed. Sometimes you've gotta be torn down to be able to be built up higher.[/quote]

I hope Gruden is being harsh to help him grow up.

I really like Grudens honesty but he has been no where as critical about other players.

During yesterdays postgame press conference, someone asked about the sacks and poor line play and he says the line they played well and some of the sacks are on the QB, the back and TEs.
Well who gets blamed for -6 yards rushing in the second half by Morris? He was hit in the backfield on almost every play. He never singles out Chesters horrendous play.

Hopefully gruden is just trying to knock the kid off his pedestal.

sorry for typos and poor grammar, i'm heated!

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=mredskins;1098630]More surprising then the Robert public beating is the closet Jay put Kirk. Honestly sans the interceptions I think he ran the offense best this year. Did Kirk screw Jay's wife or something?[/quote]

They say that Kirk suffers from a lack of confidence. I'm just guessing, but perhaps Kirk remains in the closet because Gruden doesn't want to play him until he knows that KC will succeed.